Study: Religion is good for kids
posted at 4:06 pm on April 24, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Well, I guess if any one of the three of us adults here at HA was going to be childless, it’s a good thing it’s me. I wipe my tears with my surfeit of disposable income.
Kids with religious parents are better behaved and adjusted than other children, according to a new study that is the first to look at the effects of religion on young child development…
The kids whose parents regularly attended religious services—especially when both parents did so frequently—and talked with their kids about religion were rated by both parents and teachers as having better self-control, social skills and approaches to learning than kids with non-religious parents.
Bartkowski thinks religion can be good for kids for three reasons. First, religious networks provide social support to parents, he said, and this can improve their parenting skills… Secondly, the types of values and norms that circulate in religious congregations tend to be self-sacrificing and pro-family, Bartkowski told LiveScience… Finally, religious organizations imbue parenting with sacred meaning and significance, he said.
They don’t have any data about denominational differences, but if the Catholic household I grew up in is representative then it sure ain’t Catholics who are dragging this average up. Exit question one: Isn’t the real lesson here that religion spares parents from pounding headaches? Exit question two: WWRDD?
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Really? This is news to me. But you know God personally, so I’ll take your word for it.
Gregor on April 24, 2007 at 6:13 PM
I was thinking the exact same thing! Hilarious!
Pam on April 24, 2007 at 6:14 PM
The other way to look at this, outside the religion angle (as it is false with my anecdotal case) there is a solid structure to these families.
I’ll wager that the children are involved in other activities outside of regular church attendance. They will get 3 square meals a day and a proper bedtime. Odds are pretty good that the children were not shipped off to daycare at the first opportunity. TV probably was not a baby sitter at the earliest stages of development.
Multifactoral stuff. I really, seriously and honestly doubt that church is a cure all for poorly behaved kids.
Krydor on April 24, 2007 at 6:15 PM
Gregor on April 24, 2007 at 6:13 PM
Didn’t you just get into trouble up there somewhere?
naliaka on April 24, 2007 at 6:16 PM
Is it at all possible that at some point in your life you’ll run out of horrible things to say about people who hold to a religious faith?
I don’t hate atheists. I don’t understand them, but I certainly don’t show the disdain you reguarly show Christians.
Were you beaten with a cross, routinely dunked in holy water and given Bible paper cuts as a child?
Esthier on April 24, 2007 at 6:16 PM
elpresidente,
A-fricking-men. I’ve had it with the insuinations, many by ex-Catholics, that Catholicism is a religion all about power and hierarchy and has little or anything to do with Jesus.
Theworldisnotenough said: “The Catholic church is structured like a coporation and smoothered in hypocrisy.”
This bigotry should have no place here. The idea that there are NO faithful Catholics is ridiculous. The idea that Catholicism is just a corporation is not only anti-historical, but it’s an outrageous smear on a religion of faithful Christians. This mirrors the anti-Catholic smears that Protestants have made since they cut out sections of the Bible they didn’t like.
Sydney Carton on April 24, 2007 at 6:17 PM
He did try and put a smiley face on it.
naliaka on April 24, 2007 at 6:18 PM
Are you arguing that it’s impossible for someone to love someone if that person is unknown by the object of his/her love?
Would that mean that a mother actually does not love her newborn child?
Esthier on April 24, 2007 at 6:19 PM
Or rather, is love dependent on the object of love?
Esthier on April 24, 2007 at 6:19 PM
There is. I do it every day. Are you saying you obeyed your parents only out of fear of Invisible God? If that’s so you had some mighty persuasive parents who could probably have done just as well on their own persuasive merits.
I am so sick and tired of particular positions being attributed solely to religion. If you have a child, you’re involved in what is an extremely serious duty for anybody, religious or not. If it’s only people’s churches who are emphasizing that idea, then society has a very large problem.
Anwyn on April 24, 2007 at 6:21 PM
Don’t think so. Did I miss it?
Gregor on April 24, 2007 at 6:23 PM
Exactly. As a child I wasn’t afraid of God. In fact, my mother explained to me that when she disciplined me she was doing what God wanted her to do.
And to that I just asked if I could cut out the middle man and deal with God directly instead of having to be punished by her.
I wasn’t afraid that punishment from God would be worse. I was sure it would be better.
Esthier on April 24, 2007 at 6:24 PM
But then I grew up and left God behind. Because He was never there to begin with, except as a way to keep me in line.
And there you have it. You never left God behind because no one showed you who He was to begin with. They used his name, but never showed you his face. Sad.
Allah,
What is up with you and the religion threads? The hound of heaven after you or something? Btw, God doesn’t ever reject us. He just waits with great patience.
Regarding Catholics not having a personal relationship with God, totally not true.
My parents were not religious at all (although they were quite wonderful and loving parents who did believe in God), so I guess the parents can’t always “brainwash” us.
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 6:24 PM
Last time I checked, lying was immoral (according to the religion W & most of the posters here profess to follow.) In fact, it’s an abomination, the same level of condemnation used for the (supposed) sin of a man laying with another man. (Woman with woman is, mercifully, allowed!)
So, color me confused!
CountAgion on April 24, 2007 at 6:25 PM
Yes, it was a smiley face at the end of a wooden paddle. We actually had one of those at a school I attended as a child. It didn’t make the spankin’ any easier then, and it didn’t feel any better this time either.
I get it. People in the world hate Christians. I just wish they didn’t feel the need to tell everyone.
Esthier on April 24, 2007 at 6:28 PM
That comment about Catholics and my parents is not directed toward Allah btw.
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 6:29 PM
The religion threads are popular with commenters. I do them because people like them. I don’t care about religion one way or another except when it intrudes in politics.
Allahpundit on April 24, 2007 at 6:29 PM
Please get your facts right. The Apocrypha was officially added to the existing 60 books of the bible back in 1546.
Have you actually read books in the Apocrypha? Other than prayers for the dead there’s no doctrine introduced by them.
BTW, during his three year ministry Jesus quoted passages from every book in the Old Testament except for Ruth. He never quoted any passage from any book in the Apocrypha.
Of course religion is good for kids. We come hard-wired from the factory to have faith and to beieve in a higher power.
Mojave Mark on April 24, 2007 at 6:31 PM
People, listen. If you don’t really know what Christianity teaches, don’t comment on specific teachings. It just makes you look silly.
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 6:31 PM
Allah,
Riiight.
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 6:32 PM
No, I’m arguing that a bare threshold for admission into heaven according to most Christians I talk to is belief in God. If you don’t believe, you ain’t getting in. Which means it’s less important to God that he loves you than that you love him back.
Which, let’s admit, is an oddly insecure feeling for an omnipotent, omniscient being to have.
Allahpundit on April 24, 2007 at 6:33 PM
but if the Catholic household I grew up in is representative then it sure ain’t Catholics who are dragging this average up
And this explains everything.
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 6:34 PM
Yeah, well, no matter how many times I warn religious people how offensive and alienating it is when they pull the “you only criticize religion because you secretly want to believe!” argument, they keep on pulling it. So, pull away.
Allahpundit on April 24, 2007 at 6:35 PM
Just an observation—I’ve watched children come to church as infants sleeping in carseats. Seen them grow older and sleep spread-eagled on the pews. Seen them grow a little older, gradually learning that fussing will get them taken outside. Seen them do that on purpose for a while, then change to where they don’t want to be taken out, and start to promise to be good if they can stay. Heard them whining, fighting with each other, playing under the seats. Heard them slam their little heads on the pews, and waited to find out how far Dad could get with them toward the back doors before they could inhale and let out that blood-curdling wail.
I’ve seen them go through the coloring-on-the bulletin phase, and the acting-up during the sermon phase, and the unseen/unheard in the crying room phase. I’ve seen their parents endure irritated stares and sympathetic smiles, and sacrifice many an opportunity to actually listen to a sermon, but they mostly persevere. Year after year the parents practice the skill set of getting 2 or 3 or 4 kids dressed and in the pew by 9 a.m.
Then one day I notice the same children are standing and sitting with the rest of the congregation, and singing, and reciting, and even listening when the pastor is speaking. At some point, they acquire the unexpected ability to look an adult in the eye, smile, and greet them.
Maybe they just got older, learned to conduct themselves politely, and naturally developed a long attention span. Maybe they learned discipline in public school. Or maybe it was the 8 or 10 or 12 years of weekly repetition, or the bible readings, or the social support, the congregation’s values, or the parenting “imbued with sacred meaning”.
Who knows? But if it turns out that regular church attendance is demonstrably good for the children, will everyone who cares about their children start bringing them?That I’d like to see.
NellE on April 24, 2007 at 6:36 PM
Slander is a spoken defamation. Defamation or “defamation of character,” is spoken or written words that falsely and negatively reflect on a living person’s reputation.
Like claiming, for example, that W put firecrackers in frogs & blew them up when he was a child?
Oh, wait … that one’s true! No slander/libel there!!
Care to offer your own examples?
CountAgion on April 24, 2007 at 6:39 PM
Under the assumption that you’re correct, it’s also His insecurity that made human life possible in the first place, so it isn’t odd so much as common.
Personally though, I go under the free will idea. Everyone gets to chose if they want an afterlife with or without God. Hell is defined by some as nothing other than the complete absence of God seeing as the physical body will be no more and flames can’t burn the intangible.
Heaven is just Heaven because God is there, physically, like when Moses saw him and started glowing like a nuclear mutant, only with our eyes open.
But obviously not everyone wants to be with God. Satan knew exactly what he was doing when he left, as did a third of the angels. For some reason, they chose to live away from God, even at the cost of living in Heaven.
Esthier on April 24, 2007 at 6:40 PM
Which means it’s less important to God that he loves you than that you love him back.
Whaaat? It’s so important to God for you know how much he loves you he gave us his son, who took on every single terrible thing you ever did. Took on every sorry thought, sin, and meaness you ever thought of.
That’s how important it is to God that you know how much he loves you.
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 6:40 PM
It’s wishful thinking and projection on their part.
Esthier on April 24, 2007 at 6:41 PM
CountAgion, I would say that claiming that Pres. Bush lied to get us into war would be slander. Saying that his administration was behind 9/11 is also. There are Democrats who actually believe that. Two examples.
Rose on April 24, 2007 at 6:45 PM
Allah,
I don’t think you “secretly want to believe.” But I do think you wonder if you are right. Which is why you do this.
There are just enough “snotty, holier than thou, you are going to hell,” type of Christians on these threads to allow you to go home and pat yourself on the back about how much wiser you are than these “fools” who can’t seem to explain to you rationally enough to make any head way with you.
You do this to make yourself feel better because you know that people like Bryan, MaryKatharine, and Michelle are not fools and that bothers you. It bothers you that such intelligent wonderful people can believe in such a ridiculous “God.” So you come here to feel better in your unbelief.
*I’m not charging this session….;-)
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 6:46 PM
Yes, well, not to launch a full theological debate here but that’s also always struck me as a distinctly odd concept. First, how did he “take on” my sins? Because he said he did? In that case, why do I need to be good? Second, precisely how big was Christ’s sacrifice given that he knew he was going to rise from the dead and rule in paradise for all eternity? Not to minimize the agony of the crucifixion, but think of all the U.S. soldiers or even Iraqi soldiers who face horrible ordeals every day with no promise of salvation, let alone being crowned the king of kings. Who’s really making the bigger sacrifice?
Allahpundit on April 24, 2007 at 6:48 PM
It doesn’t “bother” me but of course it gives me pause. Just like I would hope the fact that an intelligent person like myself doesn’t believe gives them pause. I’m not omniscient; neither are they. Doubt is part of the human condition. I don’t see what it proves.
Allahpundit on April 24, 2007 at 6:50 PM
Well, some of them do believe they are promised salvation.
Anwyn on April 24, 2007 at 6:50 PM
ahhhh. the good ole debate about religion….
You must not have been taught by Sacred Heart nuns. I was. they are awesome women.
pullingmyhairout on April 24, 2007 at 6:51 PM
You know I find these whole debates pointless because the people having them are already set in their ways…Atheists do not bother me apart from the ones who feel the need to insult people of faith.
EnochCain on April 24, 2007 at 6:51 PM
They believe it, they don’t know it the way Christ allegedly knew what was in store for him.
Allahpundit on April 24, 2007 at 6:54 PM
Allah,
I would love to sit here and type all night and answer every one of your questions, but you don’t want answers, you just want an argument you can shoot down.
It took me about 10 years of a serious spritual journey to answer all those questions. I took classes. I made appointments with Priests. I read C.S Lewis, St. Augustine, and Malcolm Muggeridge and Bishop Fulton Sheen. (I was actually anti-Catholic when I started looking into the Catholic faith) But although the answers to those questions gave me the intellectual answers, the spirtual answer was so simple and you don’t have to have those answers to get it. God loves you. He loves you more than anyone on this earth has or can. He loves you more than you can possible imagine and he cares about every minute in your life. He cares about who you love and where you are on this path of life. He can change everything.
He just wants in.
That’s it. It’s that simple.
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 6:56 PM
To be fair, the being dead part was the easy part, even though some argue that Jesus did actually go to hell before raising from the dead.
He was brutally killed and was so distressed by it that He sweated blood from His forehead.
Our soldiers are true heroes, but I imagine they’d be significantly more stressed if they knew for a fact exactly when they would die and knew for a fact that they’d be repeatedly tortured the way Jesus was.
Oh and quickly…
Jesus took on sin the same way the animals took on the sin, but it only works to cleanse a person that wants to be cleansed.
It’s like fly tape. You can throw your sin on it, but you don’t have to.
Esthier on April 24, 2007 at 6:57 PM
It sounds great, RWS, but it also sounds too easy and, forgive me, a bit trite.
Even some of us who are Christians have never experienced it like that.
Anwyn on April 24, 2007 at 6:57 PM
I’ve never believed this garbage. To me, a person who spends their life doing good WITHOUT belief in God is a MUCH better person and much more deserving of entry to Heaven than someone who does so out of fear of Hell.
Gregor on April 24, 2007 at 6:59 PM
Yes, that’s a lovely sentiment but I have to be honest with you and say that I think it’s complete nonsense. And of course the colossally frustrating thing is that in other context, any other context, if someone were telling you what you’re telling me right now you’d scoff at it and dismiss it as crankery. That’s one of the two hardest things for me when talking to religious people. The other is their assumption that I’m simply not “open” to the truth about the invisible man who loves me so much that he’s going to send me to hell if I don’t believe him. You guys talk to imaginary people and I’m the one who’s blind. Gotcha.
Allahpundit on April 24, 2007 at 7:00 PM
No, I was taught by scary nuns. St. Michael’s nuns.
They did keep discipline, though. And I learned quite a bit.
Slublog on April 24, 2007 at 7:01 PM
Let’s face it, boys and girls: Allah’s doing the “lapsed Catholic” thing because he knows it makes him irresistible to Baptist babes and holy-roller hotties, who are now flooding his inbox with emotional e-mails.
Allah, here’s a good place to search for your evangelical angel.
Ali-Bubba on April 24, 2007 at 7:02 PM
ohhh the rampant cognitive dissonance. God is good and yet God created evil. God is good and yet God created the devil which he knew would be evil. God is good and yet God condones killing little ones, young maidens, the elderly and babies for little more reason than the conquest of lands. Eze 9:5-6, Numb 31:17. Thats some morality for ya. Sorry but I don’t limbo that low.
frreal on April 24, 2007 at 7:02 PM
How about war protesters who immolate themselves?
Do we really want to make this a contest of “who’s suffered more”? Because then you’re basically arguing that Jesus is God simply because no one has ever suffered as much he did, and I’m afraid that’s simply not true.
Allahpundit on April 24, 2007 at 7:02 PM
I’m with you on the second example. 9/11 required too much planning to have been accomplished by Bush & his administration. They did, however, have clear warning in the August 6, 2001 PDB entitled Bin Laden determined to strike in US. Bush ignored this & held no further security briefings.
Regarding the first example, however, it is clear that Bush knew that there were no WMDs in Iraq, & lied about it repeatedly. See, for example, the Downing Street Memo.
CountAgion on April 24, 2007 at 7:03 PM
Again, not everyone who believes in God also uses that belief to scare themselves into doing good.
Some, believe it or not, do good simply because they understand that it’s the right thing to do and through God find the strength to do the right thing more often than they could before. To those Christians, Christ is like Popeye’s spinach, you know, before it made people sick.
Esthier on April 24, 2007 at 7:04 PM
Ah, Creationfest.
Many a youth group chaperone has been deafened in the hills of Pennsylvania.
Slublog on April 24, 2007 at 7:04 PM
LOL. Good question, Esthier.
But let’s leave poor Enrique alone, shall we? After all, if it makes him happy to petulantly stomp his feet and come up with ever more “clever” ways of showing how far above “Christianists” he is, then what’s the harm?
If he starts having imaginary, space-traveling girlfriends named “Jelly”, on the other hand…
Misha I on April 24, 2007 at 7:07 PM
That was never my argument. God is God whether or not He decided to come down to earth and die.
I didn’t say that to argue that Jesus was God but only to argue that we’re talking about two entirely different things when you compare what our soldiers are doing and what Jesus did.
Men and women are going to die anyway. Jesus never even had to become a man.
I won’t argue that Jesus was more heroic than the soldiers, nor will I argue that the soldiers are more heroic.
I’m only saying that just because Jesus knew He’d rise again (as a human, which isn’t really a gift for a god) does not mean His act was any less heroic than that our soldiers, who don’t know what awaits them in the afterlife, do everyday.
They’re imcomparible.
Esthier on April 24, 2007 at 7:08 PM
Islam will be thrilled with this news.
God knows why God exists.
Inshallah?
profitsbeard on April 24, 2007 at 7:08 PM
Allah,
God doesn’t send us to hell. It’s our choice. We will be the ones who choose. Not God. Just so you know.
One more thing and I’m done because, really, Allah, you just want to shoot down all of us.
Do you really think that Bryan, Michelle and the rest just believe intellectually? Do you think that it’s just a “decision?’ Why don’t you ask them? Because they will tell you it isn’t “believing” that brings them to God, it’s “experiencing.” God is as real to me as this computer I’m typing on. Once you have felt God, there is no denying it. It would be like meeting a girlfriend and having a relationship and breaking up. Then months later someone asks you about her and you say “who? That person does not exist.” But you knew her.
And that is how it is with Bryan and Michelle and myself. It’s not just believing in God. It’s knowing Him. It’s a two way relationship. It’s a REAL relationship. I wish I could explain it better. But there it is.
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 7:10 PM
I don’t believe God created evil.
Esthier on April 24, 2007 at 7:10 PM
Have you ever read the Gospels? I already know the answer to this, in atleast a reading & comprehension point. but never the less…
jp on April 24, 2007 at 7:11 PM
lol!
CountAgion on April 24, 2007 at 7:12 PM
Sorry, but I didn’t see this that Allah wrote:
Just like I would hope the fact that an intelligent person like myself doesn’t believe gives them pause
Of course your unbelief doesn’t give them pause! God is not just for the learned! He is for those who cannot read, who cannot speak or hear. He is for everyone. Your being intelligent (and you most certianly are) has nothing to do with your unbelief.
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 7:17 PM
Like i said cognitive dissonance. As nothing could exist without God having created it. Satan could not have existed without God having created him. Bummer of a thing to try and explain isn’t it.
frreal on April 24, 2007 at 7:18 PM
Sure he did. He created the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, from which he forbade Adam and Eve to eat from. He also had something to do with the serpent, who was evil.
Yeah, so that’s pretty much a no-go for me.
Krydor on April 24, 2007 at 7:20 PM
How does one ‘create’ evil?
Slublog on April 24, 2007 at 7:21 PM
It’s a bummer of a thing to try and explain forever as well, though personally I can’t wrap my head around nonexistence either.
But saying that God created a creature that sinned and thus created sin is akin to saying Cho’s parents killed 32 people because they produced Cho.
Esthier on April 24, 2007 at 7:23 PM
CountAgion, The Downing Street memo proves nothing. As far as the Bin Laden memo there is nothing in there that the government didn’t already know including when Clinton was president. There were no dates, no means, no details. What if it had said that there were 12 Arab men who planned on flying planes into buildings. What could the administration have done? Refuse to let Arabs fly on any planes? The ACLU and the democrats would never have stood for that. So you are saying that Pres Bush could have prevented 9/ll on the basis of an obscure memo that gave no details, even though even if there had been more details the ACLU would never have allowed him to take the precautions he would have needed to take.
Rose on April 24, 2007 at 7:23 PM
Allah here is a video that will lyrically explain the complexity of my Christian God. God went Bowling
Drtuddle on April 24, 2007 at 7:23 PM
The name is pure metaphore in my opinion. Adam and Eve sinned by disobeying God and thus learned what sin was through disobedience, not through some magic fairy tree.
Esthier on April 24, 2007 at 7:24 PM
I tell ya, I learn an awful lot from these religion threads. How incredible these different points of view are.
I struggled for years and years to define, as well as quantify, my faith. I went in every direction, from Buddhism to atheism and still never found what felt to be truth. Not to sound sappy and simplistic, but it was when my son was born that I truly found faith.
I had a conversation with a friend, an atheist, who asked me to prove God existed. I couldn’t come up with anything he couldn’t refute in one way or another. It simply comes down to faith. You can’t explain faith, can’t define it or display it. You just have it. Or you don’t.
That being said, I can’t hold a single thing against atheists. How can I when I can only speak of my experiences and never put them into a context they can understand? Not that they aren’t capable, but they are my experiences that led me where I am with my belief, and mine only. I wouldn’t expect them to persuade anyone else. I’ll just profess the deep well of joy I feel when I’m in the spirit. How can I judge anyone else’s journey, spiritual or otherwise? It’s not like I’m omniscient or anything.
LOL, I barely even remember. I don’t think I attacked you, per se. It was probably something where I objected to being lumped in with our dear Congressional leaders or something, as has happened before. Remember, the Democratic party used to be honorable, and some of us fight on. Just remember, not all Dems = moonbats.
SouthernDem on April 24, 2007 at 7:26 PM
Care to point out exactly where in Christian doctrine it says that you are required to be “good”? As I understand it Jesus taught that it was impossible for any of us to be “good” enough to get into heaven, thus making His sacrifice necessary and the only “requirement” is to accept that free gift. Pretty onerous, huh?
You sure have a lot of wrong notions about Christian doctrine, especially when it comes to this whole “good” thing. Yesterday you thought God should be judged because He allowed “innocent” college students to die. Which indicates a lack of understanding that, under Christian doctrine, “ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”.
You might have a lot better luck connecting with your shots if you actually took a closer look at what you were aiming at. ;)
Fatal on April 24, 2007 at 7:26 PM
Cho’s parents are not Omnipotent Omniscient beings. God is the creator of all that is, was and will be therefore… God created evil. =)
frreal on April 24, 2007 at 7:27 PM
Tell that to Peter in the second and fourth chapters of Acts.
Matticus Finch on April 24, 2007 at 7:32 PM
Really? Jesus was sweating blood for no reason then?
Describe to me someone that endured more physically than Jesus. Better yet take 5 lashes with a scourge then get back to me…
Theworldisnotenough on April 24, 2007 at 7:34 PM
Ah, so now Genesis II is a metaphor for what happens when people disobey God? Seems like an over the top reaction. Apparently, God has forgiveness issues.
Any theologians want to help Esthier out here, or is this some kind of initiation ritual?
Krydor on April 24, 2007 at 7:36 PM
Faith=/= reason and vice versa. It not that you do not understand, it is that you can’t understand. People with faith cannot explain it to people without. Simple. I do not see why people try.
Theworldisnotenough on April 24, 2007 at 7:37 PM
Ask Bryan, Michelle, and Mary Katharine. I willing to bet you give them no pause at all…
Theworldisnotenough on April 24, 2007 at 7:39 PM
Again, how does one create an intangible?
Slublog on April 24, 2007 at 7:39 PM
No dissonance, just a misunderstanding.
This illustration sometimes helps make it clear to people. Define “darkness”, is “darkenss” created? Is there some sphere out there that radiates “darkness”, can “darkness” be measured? Can we produce a flashdark?
Nope, darkness is just the embodiment of the absence of light. It is not a material thing in and of itself. It isn’t created by anything, and yet IT EXISTS!
Evil is the same way, it isn’t something that was “created”, it exists because it is the embodiment of the absence of something. I’ll leave you to figure out what that “something” might be.
Fatal on April 24, 2007 at 7:39 PM
What does the bible say about that Allah?
Theworldisnotenough on April 24, 2007 at 7:41 PM
And the SPirit of the Lord moved over the face of HOT AIR
Drtuddle on April 24, 2007 at 7:41 PM
Do threads about existence of God, that end up generating more post by far than other political threads prove the existence of God? just saying…
How do you get Life from non-life?
jp on April 24, 2007 at 7:46 PM
Maybe we should hear from them before we take that as fact. Because I don’t mind admitting that, occasionally, it gives me a frickin’ pause.
And to whoever said that crack about emotional emails, I ain’t Baptist.
Sparkle, you mentioned Lewis, but you’re ignoring his policy of not asking people to accept Christ if their best judgment wouldn’t accept it. Sometimes you have to meet people on their own terms or else just leave be.
Anwyn on April 24, 2007 at 7:46 PM
I have a question for the atheists. Are you/have you been truly curious about whether or not there’s a big guy up there?
And if so what did you do about it?
Free Constitution on April 24, 2007 at 7:47 PM
You guys talk to imaginary people and I’m the one who’s blind. Gotcha.
Ok. ok. I didn’t see this one either.
Allah,
Ghandhi was once asked why he wasn’t a Christian since the teachings were all about love, compassion, and forgivness. He said it was because he had never met a Christian.
I used to feel that way too. Christianity sounded good on paper, but I didn’t see people acting the way Christ said we should. Then I did meet a Christian. I met someone who was kind, generous, giving, with a loving heart. Her life was exactly the way I wanted mine to be. Filled with purpose, love, and happiness. That is when I set out on my journey.
So ask yourself this. What is different about Bryan, Michelle’s and MaryKatherine’s lives? How is it different from yours? And this isn’t about what heartache they have had, but how they have gone through it. How is that different and why?
Is it their imagination that makes them more peaceful? More sure of their place in this world? Is it “talking to an imaginary person” that makes them kind? Do you have something they don’t have? Or do they have something you don’t have?
Just things to ponder.
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 7:47 PM
FYI, my parents tried to indoctrinate me into catholicism as a child.
I think I became an athiest just because I couldn’t keep track of which saint was in charge of what. “OK If I have an Animal in a Desperate Situation do I pray to Saint Francis or Saint Jude?” And if my dog gets rabies, then there are 6 more saints that nose their way in.
How can anyone keep track of all this?
Then when you add to that the fact that it is all just made up…
JayHaw Phrenzie on April 24, 2007 at 7:56 PM
Well crap. Wish someone back in the day had known to ask him about this whole quantum gravity mess.
Blacklake on April 24, 2007 at 7:57 PM
It makes me happy to hear someone say that. If more people believed that way, a lot fewer atheists would be pushed to the point of hating Christians.
You can’t force faith on someone, and some people simply can’t believe something we can’t see. But that doesn’t mean we’re not steadfastly doing unto others as we’d prefer done to us. Threatening us with hell isn’t going to make us believe any faster, it only makes us resist harder.
Tanya on April 24, 2007 at 7:58 PM
Damn.
That was kind of hot.
Allahpundit on April 24, 2007 at 7:59 PM
Thanks, I think.
Tanya on April 24, 2007 at 8:01 PM
Sparkle, you mentioned Lewis, but you’re ignoring his policy of not asking people to accept Christ if their best judgment wouldn’t accept it. Sometimes you have to meet people on their own terms or else just leave be.
I haven’t asked anyone to accept Christ.
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 8:02 PM
This is a doctrinal train wreck. Atheists: Forgive us.
PRCalDude on April 24, 2007 at 8:02 PM
Tanya,
I couldn’t agree more. Which is why I think Allah likes to put up threads like this. Let’s face it, people aren’t at their best on the internet. Which is why I keep bringing up Christians to Allah that he ACTUALLY KNOWS. I think he knows that he can get a better argument or explanation from them, but he would rather do it here. I wonder why?
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 8:05 PM
I believe he’s answered the question – threads like these are popular. I don’t think there are deeper motives at play.
Slublog on April 24, 2007 at 8:07 PM
Why do you assume that I haven’t spoken to them about it? I do talk to Mary Katharine and Kirsten Powers about it. Mary Katharine is more helpful, mainly because she’s willing to make concessions when concessions are obviously in order.
Allahpundit on April 24, 2007 at 8:08 PM
Yes, can we please stop asking that question, as if it even matters? It’s his blog. Who cares what his motives are.
PRCalDude on April 24, 2007 at 8:08 PM
Allah,
You are right. I don’t know what conversations you have had with them, but I am not takikng about the posts being popular, I am talking about the questions you ask.
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 8:14 PM
You know I have been treated like crap by plenty of Christians
but I do not hate them because well thats a waste of time…I believe in God and I believe in Jesus and my relationship is with them…its not my problem what other Christians do or what they think about me.
EnochCain on April 24, 2007 at 8:14 PM
I just don’t see the fuss. But then my faith has never really been tested. If I were an atheist I know I’d give God a sincere chance, just to be sure. If that didn’t change my mind I wouldn’t worry about it anymore.
Free Constitution on April 24, 2007 at 8:15 PM
I guess what I am trying to say is that if you want real answers and not answers that make you feel “alienated.” Maybe this isn’t the best place to be asking them.
Rightwingsparkle on April 24, 2007 at 8:16 PM
What are you trying to say about the Hot Air community, RWS? :)
Slublog on April 24, 2007 at 8:18 PM
God did not create evil. Put a stake in that corrupt notion right now. The God of the Bible is not Mr. Ying and Yang. That is a completely different theology. Do not mix them up.
If you do insist on mixing them, do not pretend to argue on the facts. Most pagan religions have this same problem with the existance of good and evil. Many of the gods have those two sides to them – a benevolent character along with an evil character. The God of Issac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, Isaiah, John the Baptist, Jesus, Paul, Mark, Augustine, Luther etc etc. is defined as GOOD only. He cannot look on evil. Evil is destroyed in His presence. Evil is not from Him nor a part of Him. This is radically different from other religions, past and present. If you don’t know this is different, go read up on it, then come back and discuss.
At least have the decency to be informed as to the correct tenants of any particular faith you want to debate. Comparative religion studies are useful in that they compare and contrast the pillars of different theologies.
Evil entered with sin, which is rebellion against God.
I don’t mind a spirited debate, pro or con, but to state untruths and half-facts when the correct information is available is laziness or dishonesty.
naliaka on April 24, 2007 at 8:18 PM
Point taken. And if atheists wouldn’t mock our beliefs, maybe we wouldn’t have to defend them as fervently. Not you, Tanya, but when atheists call my God petulant, childish, and non-existant….
Is that hot, Allah?
/grins
Matticus Finch on April 24, 2007 at 8:18 PM
So man sinned, and evil entered. Who created man again?
Free Constitution on April 24, 2007 at 8:19 PM
I’m sure you don’t mean it this way, but saying “Your friends are Christian, why can’t you be?” comes off as pretty condescending. Some of us put a whole lot of thought into it, before we set aside the belief system we were taught as children. We can’t believe just because our friends believe.
Tanya on April 24, 2007 at 8:21 PM
Why not? It shouldn’t be hard for religious people to answer simple questions without resorting to “you only write about religion because you secretly believe!”
Allahpundit on April 24, 2007 at 8:21 PM
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