Rudy leads big among Christian conservatives
posted at 5:21 pm on April 23, 2007 by Allahpundit
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[T]herein lies a startling aspect of Giuliani’s candidacy: Nationwide, he is the No. 1 choice of white conservative Christians for the Republican nomination. A Times poll this month found 26% of them favor Giuliani — more than double the portion supporting either of his top rivals, John McCain or Mitt Romney…
Retired teacher Lorraine Long, 74, said she was not “a huge Giuliani fan” and strongly disagreed with him on abortion. But she still might support him because of what she sees as his strength on national security.
“If we’re annihilated, we can’t fight abortion and the liberals,” she said.
That sentiment is part of a wider concern among many evangelicals that America is locked “in a massive, titanic ideological struggle with radical Islam,” said Dennis J. Goldford, professor of politics at Drake University in Des Moines. “Religious conservatives have come to see radical Islam as the dominant issue of the age, to the point that for some of them — not all — this eclipses things like abortion, taxes and homosexuality,” he said.
I hope he enjoys this while it lasts because Fred’s right behind him in the same poll among the same demographic with 22%. Once he jumps in and starts campaigning in earnest, he’s going to own the conservative Christian vote. And as hard as that’ll make things for Rudy and McCain, it makes them impossible for Mitt, doesn’t it? We keep cutting him slack for lack of name recognition, but if he hasn’t been able to command a lead yet among the innermost core of his would-be core demographic, what hope does he have?
No doubt anticipating the imminent arrival of Fredmania!, Rudy himself has belatedly found religion on immigration:
In contrast to his years as mayor, when he fought federal efforts to curtail public hospital or educational services to illegal immigrants, he now talks of penalties for people here illegally and requirements for them to wait at the back of the line. And while he once pushed policies like providing schooling for the children of illegal immigrants by saying, “The reality is that they are here, and they’re going to remain here,” now he emphasizes denying amnesty…
As other anti-immigration movements spread across the country in 1990s, Mr. Giuliani consistently pushed back. “The anti-immigration issue that’s now sweeping the country in my view is no different than the movements that swept the country in the past,” he said in 1996. “You look back at the Chinese Exclusionary Act, or the Know-Nothing movement — these were movements that encouraged Americans to fear foreigners, to fear something that is different, and to stop immigration.”
These days, when he says he opposes amnesty, Mr. Giuliani says he does not mean that the millions of people here illegally should be deported, but rather, that they should have to earn their citizenship and that nothing should be accorded automatically.
On the campaign trail, he says the first order of business must be to try to identify the 12 million immigrants who are here illegally and issue them “tamper-proof” identification cards.
Then, he said, they should start paying taxes. If they want to become citizens, they should have to “get on the back of the line,” he said.
“And then, at the end of the line, if they are ever going to become citizens,” he said, “the thing I am really interested in, they have to read English, write English, speak English and be able to understand the basics of American civics.”
It’s the Bush plan, in other words, a “soft” amnesty that tacks on a few pro forma requirements instead of just granting blanket citizenship straightaway. His excuse for the flip-flop: the war on terror, which requires new toughness in border enforcement. This’ll please supporters like Ace who are looking for some sort of willingness on Rudy’s part to tack right, no matter how shamelessly opportunistic it might appear. I think what it mainly does is erode his image as a man of principle (even if it’s the wrong principle) and puts him in the same box as McCain and Romney as guys who talk the talk unconvincingly. Which makes things that much easier for Fred.
Exit question: By the Pope’s logic, isn’t Rudy both pro-evil and pro-terrorism?
Update: A commenter points to the results of the American Family Association straw poll as a better indicator. Like I said, Fred’s going to own the Christian conservative vote.
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well, yes Allah, being pro-abortion is pro-evil.
I’ll make it simple for you.
Abortion=evil.
Got it?
Not to be snarky, but geeze. You may not agree, but I think you understand how people like I believe. Destroying unborn children is evil. Period. Forget politics. It is just evil.
Rightwingsparkle on April 23, 2007 at 5:32 PM
He didn’t say abortion was evil. He said gay marriage is. Abortion is the terrorism part.
Allahpundit on April 23, 2007 at 5:35 PM
I don’t think I qualify as a Conservative but I don’t think terrorism is the biggest issue. If western civilisation can’t fight the mental disease that is liberalism and can’t stop murdering its own children, how can it stand up to the ideological juggernaught that is Islam. There’s a reason why Islam is gaining so many converts in Europe: they’re empty inside. No soul, just mindless machines ready to be taken over by the first think that looks even remotely meaningful. America is (at a slower rate) going down the same road.
Another problem is that I don’t think Islam can annihilate America literally. They’re simply too technologically inept and for all their chest beating, muslims simply aren’t the fighters they used to be anymore. A muslim terrorist ranks somewhere between a chunky midget and a high school thug on my military competence list. What it can do is annihilate it ideologically, and unless we can get our crap together, we can kiss “the land of the free” goodbye.
Darth Executor on April 23, 2007 at 5:38 PM
Gosh, now we believe the LA Slimes and their b.s. polls? I guess I didn’t get that memo.
Allah, you need to check a better gauge of what Christian conservatives think and who they support:
http://www.afa.net/petitions/strawpoll/strawpoll.asp
Can’t get much more Christian or conservaitve than that. Of course, the results “aren’t scientific,” but then, neither is the Slimes’ poll.
JinxMcHue on April 23, 2007 at 5:43 PM
He didn’t say abortion was evil. He said gay marriage is. Abortion is the terrorism part.
Allah,
The Church (the actual teaching) says abortion is evil, whatever words the Archbishop uses.
Rightwingsparkle on April 23, 2007 at 5:44 PM
JinxMcHue has a point. You might want to get your news on religious matters from a different source. I never trust the MSM when they use many quotes while filling in the rest for us. Teachings cannot be found in soundbites.
Rightwingsparkle on April 23, 2007 at 5:47 PM
From just an anecdotal evidence standpoint, 7 of the ten people I talked to yesterday mentioned Fred!, w/o any lead from me. Now of course I do live in a GOP enclave of sorts here near Moonbat Bay, and the attitude in Berzerkeley up yonder over the hill would probably sway a bit differently,but I found it very encouraging that people are paying attention to him.
I am starting to see the possibility of a Gore/Hildebeast ticket to go up against, so there you go.
bbz123 on April 23, 2007 at 5:49 PM
Clearly Allah understands that it is now all about Fred!
Jaibones on April 23, 2007 at 5:51 PM
Lysdexia. Bleh.
JinxMcHue on April 23, 2007 at 5:56 PM
Pfft. I posted that poll yesterday.
Theworldisnotenough on April 23, 2007 at 6:14 PM
Yup.
I killed an awful lot of people, so I guess I’d know. But, I have to say that the absolute worst thing I EVER did was abort my unborn child, more accurately, aid in the murder of my unborn child. He/She would have been 25 years old this year…
Jesus, please forgive me.
Lonevoice on April 23, 2007 at 6:15 PM
No, this has been Giulani’s position on immigration ever since he got into the race. And it in no way contradicts all that demagogic crap of his from the 90s about Chinese exclusion and fearing foreigners and all. The NYT is just confused because, like all mainstream media, they don’t follow immigration carefully enough to know what the politicians’ positions are and because from their point of view anything less than amnesty and capless immigration is the equivalent of the Chinese Exclusion Act or “fearing foreigners”.
Rudy’s amnesty-lite position is fully compatible with his 90s immigration fanaticism, which apparEntly is also his 00s immigrations fanaticism. As long as the flow remains high and unregulated (ie, low-skilled), the immigration fanatics will be happy.
Alex K on April 23, 2007 at 6:23 PM
I’ll back whoever gets the Republican nomination, but until then (and more than likely even after) . . . Fred!
- The Cat
MirCat on April 23, 2007 at 6:48 PM
Things that make you go hmmm. Would this qualify as a conundrum? I think their is alot to be said for our neighbors to the south. Our school system needs to be bolstered to insure that the melting pot theory will transform immigrants to all american status. Ge I thought our criminal stupid President innitiated a bit of legislation called ‘no child left behind’ just for that reason. HMMM….
sonnyspats1 on April 23, 2007 at 7:40 PM
OK OK OK, it just took another listen to Hillary trying out her poor sharecropper voice and Obama’s plan to give even more foreign aid to terrorists to get them to like us (yeah, that’ll work Barry)but I’ll hold my nose and vote for whoever the GOP nominates but dammit I want FRED.
FWIW Fred’s getting a lot of positive attention from the blue dog Democrats here in Oklahoma. His appeal has grown far past his internet presence.
Buzzy on April 23, 2007 at 7:54 PM
God Bless you.
Glynn on April 23, 2007 at 8:00 PM
I absolutely agree with you. Some of America’s greatest enemies are within, from those who teach our children to the leftists politicians who want power but not responsibility. In effect, it seems as though they wait for our downfall. They have their dancing shoes on. One really must ponder how there can be those around us who wish for such a thing.
Glynn on April 23, 2007 at 8:04 PM
Giving “them” as much credit as I can, what they want is for the traditional morality of American society to fail, so that their moral relativism can be fully put in place. It’s not that they wish for the nation to be destroyed, they simply don’t believe that if the former occurs, the latter does as well. No nation survives the loss of morality that the hedonists wish for. It isn’t about destruction with them, it’s about power. But if destroying “the old values” is what it takes for them to gain real power, that’s their aim.
Freelancer on April 23, 2007 at 9:07 PM
These early polls are notoriously inaccurate. They amount to name recognition exercises (and I would doubt the source as has been pointed out).
Few people are engaged yet, meaning that they don’t know where candidates lie on a lot of issues. I’m not so sure that Rudy is invulnerable on the terrorism issue. Nobody has attacked him or any of the other candidates yet. There have been some minor skirmishes, but the mud slinging has yet to begin.
cmay on April 23, 2007 at 9:20 PM
GIULIANI/THOMPSON ‘08
noble_eagle on April 23, 2007 at 11:54 PM
Soros will eat his billions. The most realistic/cunning of all is Bill Clinton, who preemptively claimed this week that Hillary is happy being/remaining a Senator.
Entelechy on April 24, 2007 at 1:13 AM
I just wish he’d realize that the 2nd amendment is more than just about hunters rights. Can’t say I back him fully as president, maybe vp though!
Highrise on April 24, 2007 at 3:24 AM
Hey sweetie, I wish we could sit and chat. If you haven’t already, you might want to hook up with a local crisis pregnancy center for post-abortion counseling.
“If we confess our sins, He is FAITHFUL and just and will forgive us our sins, and will cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” I John 1.9
“Who is a God like You, who pardons iniquity and passes over the rebellious act of the remnant of His possession? He does not retain His anger forever, because He delights in unchanging love. He will again have compassion on us; He will tread our iniquities under foot. Yes, You will cast all of their sins into the depths of the sea.” Micah 7:18-19
My sins and yours are nailed to the cross; they’ve been taken care of. God is not slow to forgive those who repent and accept His salvation and forgiveness. And I know it’s hard to forgive yourself, but our sin is against God, and if He has forgiven us, who are we to withold that forgiveness from ourselves?
Praying for you today.
-Hope
tikvah on April 24, 2007 at 9:00 AM
I just want a president who is not beholden to the Saudis. The past few were too willingly to look the other way while they took our billions in petro-dollars and turned around to bribe radical elements in their own country to focus on us. All for millions in donations to presidential libraries. Makes me sick!
I do know that Rudy would be a refreshing change to business as usual in dealing with Saudi Arabia. He is, after all, who told them to take their $10 million dollar donation and jam it when they came over after 9/11 in an attempt to save some face that it was their citizens that did this to us.
Rudy, despite his personal life, was the greatest mayor New York City has ever had. His hard work and unbending attitude to what was the right way to turn around New York infuriated the press and the liberals in this city to no end. Another refreshing change from the guy we have there now who does nothing but cower and compromise with those same hostile elements.
Fred…..as a senator, he was a good actor. He hasn’t governed in years and when he was there, he wasn’t exactly the hardest worker either.
kcluva on April 24, 2007 at 10:17 AM