I don’t know if the Christian bible finally gets to the point where you stop forgiven and just condemn them….or is that just for homosexuality and masterbation?

Defector01 on April 23, 2007 at 11:14 PM

The Bible talks about forgiving another’s sinfulness, not necessarily about forgiving (as in condoning) the actual sinful act.

A murderer is still to be punished for his crime. Even though we still wish forgiveness on him for his innate human sinfulness which tempted him to this sin in the first place.

Yep, that’s the sentiment I was going for, sans religious overtones.

Krydor on April 24, 2007 at 4:55 PM

Same thing, religion or not. I’m glad I got you right, because you got it exactly right yourself. Which, of course, proves what I’ve always known: we Christians don’t have a monopoly on being right :-)

Something I never understood about Christianity. Jesus forgave his murderers, but he did not forgive the murderers of others. Being a Jew, Jesus would not be allowed to forgive in the name of others. In Judaism, ONLY those that are wronged can forgive.

I know. The problem isn’t, however, with Christianity. The problem is with ignorant fools cherry-picking passages of the Bible that fit their own pre-conceived notions and misinterpreting them beyond reason (see also: “Episcopalian Church, the” or “Bible Optional, the doctrine of” to name a couple of examples).

Well, I know that if you’re a Christian you’re supposed to “forgive” those who have done a wrong to you.

Something I never understood about Christianity. Jesus forgave his murderers, but he did not forgive the murderers of others. Being a Jew, Jesus would not be allowed to forgive in the name of others. In Judaism, ONLY those that are wronged can forgive. Hence why murder is the most heinous of all crimes: because the victim can never forgive the perp. Therefore, forgiving Cho is WRONG! His crime can NEVER be forgiven. Period.

Yep, that’s the sentiment I was going for, sans religious overtones.

right2bright on April 24, 2007 at 3:24 PM

You are right, but I think that what Krydor meant is that forgiveness requires an effort. Such as asking for it, just for starters. Repentance would be a nice thing too.

It is not something to be handed out like candy by third party, vacuous, preposterous do-gooders yearning to feel good about themselves.

Oh they can do it, to be sure, none have the right to stop them, but it only serves as witness to the utter emptiness of their souls and the sheer magnitude of their ignorance.

Let them preen and posture, throwing forgiveness for that which is not theirs to forgive in gay abandon, it only proves that they know not the next thing about that which they claim to speak of.

They may be fooling themselves, but they won’t fool G-d.

Forgiveness is something that is earned, not given.

Krydor on April 24, 2007 at 2:08 PM

Not in my bible. If you are asking for forgiveness from an individual for doing them wrong, he can just give it to you (if he is still alive). If you are asking for God’s forgiveness, it is given of His will. You can’t “earn” God’s forgiveness, you can’t pay for it, work for it, beg for it, sacrifice for it, repent for it, it is by God’s grace that he forgives your sins.
What, do you think God can be manipulated by a few I’m sorry’s, or by scrubbing the stairs to the church?

This just makes me think, “when was the last time this troubled soul was hugged, kissed, and told, ‘I Love You’”…

…

But I can’t help thinking, if he found a soul mate, or maybe even a date, and was able to share a moment of happiness, carried that kiss of a loved one, or even a “hired hand”, throughout the day, his thoughts for the next encounter might have eased his internal rage…….

But by many accounts, Pinky, people were bending over backwards trying to include him, be friendly toward him and draw him out of his shell. He didn’t respond well to any of them.

He probably could have had all the dates, friends and declarations of love anyone could have wanted if he’d just taken his head out of his ass for a moment.

I go along with the sentiment for destroying any “memorials” to him at VT.

georgej on April 24, 2007 at 4:28 AM

Looks like someonealready has.

Let’s hope they can forgive the thief too.

As someone who once looked at the world thru eyes very much the way Cho did (praise the Lord I got saved, got sane, got a life, and finally got married) I have a real good grasp on the thought processes that were going thru his head. I really wish I didn’t but…

You can not imagine the pain, the rage, the loneliness, and the despair. And the whole time Satan is speaking into your ears telling you to avenge, to take what you deserve, that you are the innocent one and everyone else is guilty. “How dare they do what ever they do when you are there just asking for a little happiness when everyone else has it in abundance AND REFUSES TO SHARE!!!”

Ugly. The echoes of those days still haunt me and I always hope the Lord will Bless me by allowing me to help somebody to avoid that fate.

Trust me…Cho went from one Hell to worse one.

He went from not being able to see hope to not having any.

The worst of all fates. God’s justice.

Eternal Damnation.

A friend of my family’s was murdered when she was 17 years old. More than 20 years later, the killer has never been found. If they ever arrest and convict the blank-blank-blank, I will spit on his grave.

I don’t deny Cho’s family the right to grieve; they should. But there is a right and a wrong and murder is wrong.

I blame Oprah and other New-Age types for all of this “you must forgive in order to heal” baloney.

When someone hands me that line, I ask them to define what forgiveness means to them. Let’s get down to the nuts and bolts of what forgiveness means on a day-to-day basis. If someone can define it, then we can talk, but I usually end up disagreeing with them, anyway. If forgiveness means soft, mushy feelings towards someone I’d cross the street to avoid and call the cops on if he showed up at my door, no thanks. I want to tell them, “Talk to me after you or someone you care about has been abused or murdered by someone”.

Choosing not to forgive someone who doesn’t deserve it is not the same as holding a grudge: it’s learning from experience.

To forgive, you carry the weight of whatever the offense was instead of the person to whom it rightfully belongs.

If you “fogive” a loan, that means you have to eat the money you’re not going to get back. The other person goes scot free.

If you “fogive” an insult, that means you get to carry the pain (or whatever) without exacting any retribution – - you never “get even” – - i.e., the other person gets off scot free.

If you Fogive CHO, you’d have to have been on the receiving end of his rampage, and it would mean you would not have Cho pay for what he has done. Instead you’d pay for his deeds.

The bottom line of the forigiveness business is that the person you’re forgiving has to WANT the forgiveness you’re offering, trying to force it onto someone who doesn’t want it or think they even need it just means you’re being a pompous fool spouting words to make you look/feel/think you’re “good”.

He planned this. He knew what he was doing.

There’s a difference between being mentally ill and being a psychopath. Being mentally ill indicates he had no connection to reality. Cho new exactly what the outcome of his actions would be and meticulously planned every detail.

While I admire the students for wanting to move past this by trying to forgive Cho by labeling him as ‘sick’, he doesn’t deserve sympathy. Let alone a memorial.

A hooker named Chastity.

Or what about Prudence? :) Guess the virtues are a bit more comforting as names than the vices. Can’t say I’d spend any time with someone named Anger.

Why forgive Cho when he was not repentant, when he would have been as mean and twisted if he had lived?

Indeed. It is not for us, ie, those who were not there to forgive him. It doesn’t matter what we feel. Those who survived his rage can do as they choose. I agree with others above that forgiveness is pointless if he’s dead. All you can do is move on, and try to learn from this. Had he lived, I don’t think he would have cared about forgiveness. Those who should be worried about forgiveness is the administration of Vtech. Had I been a student there, and missed my text message ‘UR N DNGER!’ I would be distraught and quite intent to wring my forgiveness out of the incompentent a$$ covering f**ktards that presided over that little circus.

I go along with the sentiment for destroying any “memorials” to him at VT.

georgej on April 24, 2007 at 4:28 AM

Looks like someonealready has.

sonnyspats1 on April 23, 2007 at 11:21 PM

I don’t think any area of the bible is more misquoted or understood.

The bible is explicit in that you have to go to the person that you have sinned against and ask for forgiveness. All of us on the sidelines can say we “forgive” him all we want, it is the people he has offended and sinned against that have to grant him forgiveness. Wait, you say, but there are 30+ people dead, how can they forgive him? Exactly, that is not a mistake on God’s part, that is one sin that is unforgiven, you can never be forgiven (but by God) for murdering someone.

You can’t “turn the other cheek” in the grave.

The same thing happened in Columbine, all of these ministers came out and “forgave” those wretched boys, all for nought…

Exit question: Is it possible to be too forgiving?

why do leftists memorialize or honor people who would have liked them dead?

This guy IS A TERRORIST. He followed similar patterns as did the jerks that took those planes, albeit in a hotel room instead of a strip club. He filmed himself doing his “political rant”. He wrote an “islamic sounding name” on his arm, signed it on the papers sent to NBC.

Damn it, when a bomber walks into a place in Israel, or Pakistan and blows himself up killing 32 people, HE is a TERRORIST.

When a FOREIGN BORN man, a LEGAL ALIEN in AMERICA walks into classrooms and KILLS 32 people, he is merely an insane CRIMINAL!

BULL$***!

In my opinion, HE IS NOT A VICTIM but a perpetrator. He is the immediate cause of great sorrow and pain and deserves no “memorial.” Next to his name, the words “mass murderer” must be engraved for all time.

georgej on April 24, 2007 at 4:28 AM

Amen.

Exactly, but the “mental illness” crowd will insist that schizos are fully capable of this, and will continue to insist that he is a schizo because they need “an answer” because good and evil is too complicated for them to accept.

Thank God we have fully trained mental health specialists here to let us know what he was and wasn’t capable of.

The people who regret not doing more for Cho either never met him or are overriding their natural survivor’s instinct.

Maybe they imagine that their kindness could have changed him and altered history. But others were kind to him and it didn’t stop him from killing. He could have been in therapy for years and on multiple medications and it might not have fixed him. Some people can’t be fixed.

There are some actions that I will never forgive. At some point, I have had to decide to stop thinking about a person or a situation because of the stress it caused me. I “put it to rest”. That’s not forgiveness, it’s moving on.

If I have a friend or family member who hurts me but who apologizes sincerely then I forgive him and give him a second chance without holding it against him, which is what forgiveness means to me. But I am wiser and more wary on the inside. If the person proves that he has modified his attitude or behaviour, then gradually I will let down my guard.

I believe that forgiveness has to be earned. Why forgive Cho when he was not repentant, when he would have been as mean and twisted if he had lived? He committed suicide to avoid punishment and to fulfill his fantasy. He committed suicide out of meanness.