Report: Cho hired an escort on March 28
posted at 11:00 pm on April 23, 2007 by Allahpundit
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I guess now we know what we has doing at that hotel. Awkward to the last:
“I’m just so shaken by this, I don’t know what to say.”
Chastity Frye says she spent an hour, all alone, with Virginia Tech killer Cho Seung-Hui last month…
Frye works for an escort service. She says, Cho hired her, and the two met at a Valley View motel.
She says “I danced for a little while and I thought we were done because he got up and went to the restroom and began washing. And I said, ‘well, do you want me to go? I’m going to go ahead and go’. And he’s like, ‘I paid for the full hour, you’ve only been here for 15 minutes,’ and then he came back in the room. And I started dancing and that’s when he you know, touched me and tried to get on me and that’s when I pushed him away.“
They don’t give a date or a specific location but it’s easy enough to deduce from this NYT piece published over the weekend. He was at the Mainstay Suites on Valley View Boulevard in Roanoke on March 28, just a few days before he started shopping for “supplies.” The same piece says he stayed at another hotel, the Hampton Inn in Christiansburg, on April 8; employees suspect he took some of the photos of himself there that later appeared in his “manifesto” because the lamps in the rooms have gold extension cords. I speculated last week that some of the photos in the manifesto might have been shot in a hotel because the striped wallpaper would be unusual for a dorm room. And whaddaya know — from page 21, as posted on the MSNBC website:
The Times piece also places him outside the Roanoke shooting range on March 22, where several employees spotted him videotaping himself in the back of a van that he’d rented. From the NBC video:
One more timeline tidbit, once again from the Times piece. This one is potentially very important. As far as I knew until now, the first anyone had seen of Cho on the day of the shooting was when his roommate, Karan Grewal, ran into him in the bathroom at or shortly after 5 a.m. But I was wrong:
It was not yet 5 a.m. on Monday when Joe Aust, a sophomore who shared Mr. Cho’s room, heard his rustlings. He was already crouched at his computer, where, from his copious music downloads, he liked to repeatedly play “Shine,” a song of spiritual longing from the Georgia alternative rock band Collective Soul.
Why is that important? Well, as I wrote in the last update to this post back on April 17, there was a post at Planet Blacksburg alleging that an item had been posted to the 4chan bulletin board on the morning of the shooting that read, “hey /b/ I‘m going to kill people at vtech today in the name of anonymous.” Again — this was April 17, the day after the shooting, before anyone knew any solid details about the timeline. The Planet Blacksburg post has since been deleted, but Robert from Alphabet City took a screencap of the cached page. Here’s the 4chan posting in its entirety according to PB:
4:49 a.m. That’s a remarkable coincidence time-wise. Then again, remarkable coincidences do happen.
Exit question: Is it possible to be too forgiving?
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The aftershock of knowing you walked past Cho everyday and madey judged him or taunted him has to be a major guilt trip for some of the V-Tech students.
sonnyspats1 on April 23, 2007 at 11:12 PM
yes its possible to be too forgiving
I’d blow that memorial for Cho up on principal, I’m not christian and I”m not saddled with this ‘forgive everyone’ guilt. The G-d in my bible would send Cho to the lowest circle of hell and let him rot until time stopped. I don’t know if the Christian bible finally gets to the point where you stop forgiven and just condemn them….or is that just for homosexuality and masterbation?
Defector01 on April 23, 2007 at 11:14 PM
I don’t know if the Christian bible finally gets to the point where you stop forgiven and just condemn them….or is that just for homosexuality and masterbation?
Defector01 on April 23, 2007 at 11:14 PM
Actually the bible is pretty specific about forgiveness. I’m not gonna look up chapter and verse but it say’s if your brother offends you seven times a day we are to forgive him 7×7 pr day. If God can forgive who are we to condemn? Anyway thats not verbatum but pretty clise. I am sure someone will be by to complete or correct it soon. lol
sonnyspats1 on April 23, 2007 at 11:21 PM
cont. Thats what bible has to say on the subject but it also tells us to abide by the law.
sonnyspats1 on April 23, 2007 at 11:23 PM
Bingo. This is survivor’s guilt, and also guilt at the “bullied” crap Cho was peddling. He’s been made into a victim now. Were there memorials for the Columbine killers? Or were they too white?
People think that the sexual rules are the most difficult lessons to follow if you’re a Christian. But actually, forgiveness is the hardest. You have to forgive people, because holding onto hate will usually destroy someone. Righteous hate (better known as righteous anger) is best directed at evil actions, causes, ideologies, etc. Hate at a person is typically misdirected: “Father forgive them, they know not what they do.” The only persons (if one can use that term to describe an identity wholly consumed by nothingness of sin) one can righteously hate is the devil, and even that’s a tough thing to manage as a mortal.
Of course Cho should be forgiven. If people really, really knew what Hell was, it’d be easy to see why nobody should go there. But I have little doubt that Hell is where he is, and it’s a shame because he could’ve avoided it. In that sense, he should be forgiven because it’s the least that can be done to him now. Every moment of reality for him, past the end of the physical universe and the end of time, and beyond, will be unendurable, unending torment.
Sydney Carton on April 23, 2007 at 11:31 PM
Have the “mental illness” peddlers shown up yet? no? This is just more evidence he was fully composed and just a disgruntled douche, not suffering from an “illness”. He was a loser, he wanted to go out in a blaze of glory and was desperate for attention, and ordered a whore because he couldn’t get it any other way, but wanted to experience “it” just once.
RightWinged on April 23, 2007 at 11:32 PM
IMNTBHO, it’s not a question of forgiveness. Yes, we should forgive those who wrong us, and without condition. But that’s very different from forgetting wrong behavior. Killing 32 people, injuring many others, and then committing suicide qualifies as “wrong behavior” by any standard I can imagine. It’s not up to us to condemn Cho, in a spiritual sense, but failing to recognize the reality that he committed a despicable act and building a memorial to him is beyond the pale. The builders of this need at least as much reality therapy as Cho did.
on the Mark... on April 23, 2007 at 11:46 PM
So true. Cho demonstrated way too much cognizance throughout the whole thing. Having the wherewithal to rent a room to photograph himself; to rent a van to videotape his ranting; to premeditate so far in advance – mentally ill people just aren’t this sharp or focused. I’m really tired of the illness debate.
thedecider on April 23, 2007 at 11:52 PM
This just makes me think, “when was the last time this troubled soul was hugged, kissed, and told, ‘I Love You’”…
Don’t get me wrong, he is and will be always, responsible for his actions…… as well as the liberal safety net that failed everyone…..
But I can’t help thinking, if he found a soul mate, or maybe even a date, and was able to share a moment of happiness, carried that kiss of a loved one, or even a “hired hand”, throughout the day, his thoughts for the next encounter might have eased his internal rage…….
My point is, not forgiving his crime, but reminding all of us, especially parents, that a hug, a gentle kiss, and the words “I Love You” really do make a difference, on a day to day basis… I don’t know all the facts, the “press” shows a pattern of imbalance, but with all the vile, rage, and hatred on campus’ these days, I just have to wonder….
… at least that is my 0.02………
PinkyBigglesworth on April 24, 2007 at 12:05 AM
Rest assured that Cho is not enjoying his eternity. God dispenses pure justice. If anyone deserves punishment, he or she will get it, to the full measure of what they deserve. Erecting any sort of memorial to Cho is a Leftie-influenced act, based on an inability to determine right and wrong, not a Christian act, no matter how they try to dress it up in the nomenclature of CHristianity.
Forgiveness has much to do with releasing one’s own anger and bitterness so one doesn’t become hard. Bury the guy, or whatever his parents want, finished. It’s the Left that’s doing these weird and inappropriate things. They whinge and fuss about CHristians all day long, then they invoke a curious brand of forgiveness and whatever when such nasty things happen. They twist the theology for their own purposes.
naliaka on April 24, 2007 at 12:06 AM
Exactly, but the “mental illness” crowd will insist that schizos are fully capable of this, and will continue to insist that he is a schizo because they need “an answer” because good and evil is too complicated for them to accept. It’s the same psychology behind Trutherism. They can basically say anyone who does anything does it because they are schizos, so no one ever does anything because they are simply bad people and handle their problems incorrectly.
(This is the part where they come in and angrily say I’m denying the existence of mental illness, and accuse me of accusing mentally ill people of faking it, when in reality I simply recognize the over-diagnosis of mental illness. Virtually any person who would see a shrink would be diagnosed with depression and/or ADD or bipolar, etc. because that is the victim culture and psychiatry (like any other type of medicine) is a business. I don’t deny mental illness, but “illness” is very vague to the point where everyone is “ill” to an extent. In the old days people got a kick in the pants when they screw up or have problems. They weren’t diagnosed with illnesses to justify their behavior)
RightWinged on April 24, 2007 at 12:12 AM
A hooker named Chastity. That’s better than “Tiny” Lister.
Jim Treacher on April 24, 2007 at 12:15 AM
Yeah, but then there’s the question the FBI posed to her after she danced for him:
Heh, apparently not. Cause of his frustrations?
thedecider on April 24, 2007 at 12:20 AM
P.S. Hotel rooms, van rentals, guns, ammo, video equipment… Where was he getting all this money?
Jim Treacher on April 24, 2007 at 12:20 AM
Exactly. Let’s understand there are simply some truly dispicable people in the world. Like the Islamist facists who can cut off the head of an innocent victim in front of a video camera for the whole world to see. There are people in this world who are just plain rotten. That’s it.
As for Allah’s exit question:
The undeniable answer is, yes!
thedecider on April 24, 2007 at 12:24 AM
Probably his family. One article said his dad was very dedicated to the kids and would have done anything for them. He probalby ‘milked’ them, living pretty good off their hard labor. Perhaps even from his sister. He might have played the ‘poor unloved me’ card on them, and been showered with money/gifts to compensate…all of it just speculation, of course.
Entelechy on April 24, 2007 at 12:27 AM
No kidding. I mean, let’s just build a memorial to Osama bin Laden while we’re at it. How about Ayman al Zawahiri? Doesn’t he deserve a memorial too? Let’s call the Vatican now to ensure Charles Manson becomes the patron saint of blood spills upon his unfortunate demise.
thedecider on April 24, 2007 at 12:30 AM
I don’t see those piles of flowers and notes as memorials. They are just piles of flowers left over from prayers. As the quote from Mark indicates, the forgiveness is not for the sake of Cho, but to put the one praying on the the right path of confessing that we too are sinners that have no better a claim to salvation than Cho did. I felt that the notes shown in the photos were fine comments of how our day-to-day interactions with people have long lasting impacts. Admitting that sometimes we too treat other people poorly does not diminish the crime that Cho committed.
pedestrian on April 24, 2007 at 12:32 AM
Er, and money for hookers too, of course! That was a big one to leave off the list, silly me. If his family was paying for all that… damn.
Jim Treacher on April 24, 2007 at 12:43 AM
It says somewhere (the Times article, I think, but I can’t keep everything straight anymore) that he charged a bunch of stuff to a credit card.
Allahpundit on April 24, 2007 at 12:46 AM
Well, if he was planning on killing himself in a month, he could just charge it all…. I mean, it’s not like he’s going to have to worry about paying when the bill comes…
dead-duck on April 24, 2007 at 12:51 AM
Great, so now the credit card company has to eat that and we get to pay for it. Am I allowed to say “fucking asshole” here?
Jim Treacher on April 24, 2007 at 12:57 AM
Great, so now the credit card company has to absorb that. [expletives deleted]
Jim Treacher on April 24, 2007 at 12:58 AM
Doh! You caught this rich college kid involved in debauchery!
In fairness, Bin Laden suffers from schizophrenia. It’s an illness people, show some compassion!
Seriously though, I agree that he (and plenty of other people) are “just plain rotten”, though they aren’t born that way… it is a choice they make. 99.99% of people who suffer from the same “illnesses” that the mental illness crowd around here diagnoses evil people with don’t handle their issues the same way, therefore the role of these supposed illnesses have nothing to do with their actions in these situations.
RightWinged on April 24, 2007 at 1:05 AM
No one else is. Why should you get to?
thedecider on April 24, 2007 at 1:07 AM
Total threadjack here, and I apologize.. but AP, why no interest in posting the awesomeness that was the 4 consecutive Boston home runs in Sunday night’s game? I know you’re a Mets fan, and hate the Yankees, and if there was ever a moment in history of sticking it to them this was it!
In order to limit my threadjackiness, I won’t post a link to YouTube video of the event (of which there are many) and just recommend readers to check it out, if they want to see the Yankees get spanked.
RightWinged on April 24, 2007 at 1:08 AM
The sort of debauchery for which he ostensibly killed all those innocent people. Sometimes irony is not all that amusing.
Jealousy, obviously. That was sweet.
Pablo on April 24, 2007 at 1:22 AM
Where is Kid??
Rick on April 24, 2007 at 1:23 AM
I’d like to see the whole thread that screen cap came from. A lot of people what to bring 4chan down just for being 4chan. Cho might have been a /b/tard, but I’d like to see the whole post.
liquidflorian on April 24, 2007 at 1:23 AM
Yeah, come on, RightWinged – POST THE LINK!
thedecider on April 24, 2007 at 1:24 AM
Okay, okay… Again, AP, I apologize… but I feel the need to share my joy (which again, I think you must share, as a Mets fan/Yankee hater)
Here’s the edited version:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1nxzciB4×3c
Here’s the full length (only 6:51)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QAGTfFJFsfA
(Please don’t ban me AP!)
RightWinged on April 24, 2007 at 1:33 AM
They take credit!!??
- The Cat
MirCat on April 24, 2007 at 1:35 AM
We should forgive those who sin against us.
Apart from G-d, there are only 32 souls, now in Heaven, who can forgive Psy-Cho the loser twat.
Everybody else are just a bunch of preening wankers bathing in their own “holier than thou”-ness who ought to be ashamed of their vanity and ignorance.
Misha I on April 24, 2007 at 1:51 AM
Well, Manny Ramirez got a fast ball in the middle of the plate, but what has been up with him lately? He got a home run but he’s not been on his game lately. I don’t know. I love to see the Yanks go down. Manny is great but he’s seemed distracted or something throughout the season. Hey, anyway, great game! I didn’t get to catch it because of travel with work so I appreciate the link.
thedecider on April 24, 2007 at 1:52 AM
I hear that, Manny has struggled thus far.. but that’s not unheard of. He and Big Papi can be rather streaky. Sometimes they have slow starts and explode through the summer, other times they explode early and slow down for a month or two in the summer. I would like to think this was a turning point. We shall see. Either way, this was amazing, only the fifth time in history (I was surprised it had happened before at all). That, combined with the fact that the Sox swept the series (which happened to be the first 3 games of 18 this season) was just awesome.
Is it sad that I, literally, get goose bumps watching it!? I love listening to the announcer say that Lowell’s home run was “headed to New Hampshire”. It’s better than being with my supermodel girlfriend Jelly.
RightWinged on April 24, 2007 at 2:16 AM
The whole thing is messed up…32 kids dead and one psycho dead….this is not the first and it will not be the last school shooting…and even then people will be sitting around saying “wtf”…this world just keeps getting worse and worse.
EnochCain on April 24, 2007 at 2:24 AM
This is a point I wanted to make in the thread where AP got defensive about atheists being blamed for Cho11.
I didn’t get there while the thread was hot so I didn’t bother commenting. Anyway, here’s the deal… It was BY NO MEANS the fault of atheists. But I think the larger point to consider is the secularization of society…. the banning of school prayer (which I’m not even really endorsing, because I don’t know that it belongs in public school, but bannination over it doesn’t either… but I’m not a fan of public school anyway, despite being a product of it), Bible/Christian bashing, etc. etc.
I’m not that old, but I remember my childhood (even under an overprotective mother who was scared to death of my father, who she was divorced from), and I am tight with my large extended family who can give me the run down on previous generations and we even had a lengthy discussion on these issues Sunday (including the time I wandered off and got lost on Leddy Beach when I was 3 or 4). These were “simpler times”. You could get lost on the beach, or in the mall, and there wasn’t an Amber Alert or Code Adam within minutes, and the assumption you were kidnapped and being molested and murdered. You could go off with your friends when you were very young for the entire day without your parents knowing where you were and be okay. This lasted longer for some of us than others – I grew up in Vermont…. Despite the liberalism, we have an extremely LOW crime rate, but that’s mainly due to the lack of racial diversity up here (Call me a racist if you want, but the stats don’t lie.. the whitest states = the safest states)
It isn’t necessarily Christianity or religion that made the past generations “better” and the recent generations increasingly worse, but it was traditionalism. It just so happens that open, public, and widespread Christianity was the norm. Today such things are discouraged. My grandfather, who spent his career in the FBI transferred up here to VT to head the state’s division in the mid 1900s because this was a traditional/conservative state, and he wouldn’t have otherwise (we’ve discussed this literally this week). I am always shocked when O’Reilly exposes our judges and notes that this a 180 we’ve done up here. I grew up in the Howard Dean era of civil unions and insane tax increases, but my parents and aunts and uncles grew up in a different time (before draft dodgers were encouraged to seek refuge here) that I’m not familiar with.
Anyway, I’m rambling because I’ve had a handful of silver bullets, but back to my point… it’s not religion or prayer or anti-atheism that lead to those safer and simpler times, and where these Cho situations didn’t happen, but those things just happened to go hand in hand with the traditionalism that made and kept this country great. There were consequences and not excuses. People knew they faced God at an unknown time, and didn’t have the excuse that they were just an evolutionary animal who didn’t have God given morals or the excuse of “mental illnesses” to justify their actions. It’s not a coincidence that the most evil SOBs of all time were atheists, is it? I was actually shocked to see O’Reilly mainstream this point tonight.
RightWinged on April 24, 2007 at 2:57 AM
I’m glad the evil being is dead. I just hope we learn from this and realize that we need to fight against evil not just succumb to it.
Cho, burn in hell.
Highrise on April 24, 2007 at 3:17 AM
There is no such thing as “too much forgiveness”. There can be, however, misdirected or inappropriate responses which mask as forgiveness. A memorial to a mass murderer is way out beyond left field.
It will be well with the families involved who find themselves able to forgive, as was commented earlier it is much more for their own position in God’s eyes than anything else. If Jesus could beg the forgiveness of those who cruelly crucified Him, we have our example.
But ANY action which approaches honoring Cho is improper, and dishonors the slain victims and their families. He has met his Maker, and is in all likelihood destined for eternal punishment. There is no value in harboring further bitterness against him, it only sours our own hearts to do so. Grief and pain remain for those directly affected, but God remains sovereign, and He can heal the most broken heart.
Freelancer on April 24, 2007 at 4:03 AM
I go along with the sentiment for destroying any “memorials” to him at VT.
I’d also add an endorsement for pissing on his grave every April 16th.
It isn’t MY job to forgive him, as he didn’t “trespass against me,” but against the families of the 32. In my opinion, HE IS NOT A VICTIM but a perpetrator. He is the immediate cause of great sorrow and pain and deserves no “memorial.” Next to his name, the words “mass murderer” must be engraved for all time.
georgej on April 24, 2007 at 4:28 AM
I’ve been out of touch for four days.
Four glorious days with no Beastmaster Laptop, no cable, no papers.
Best four days of my life.
Now this bastard is immortal.
::yay::
seejanemom on April 24, 2007 at 5:29 AM
Liberals are showing their true colors again. They are sympathizing with Cho as they do with terrorists. After all, his and terrorists’ acts are caused by angst against Western Civilization that liberals hate, hence their empathy. They don’t picture Cho killing the students; they picture Bush causing Cho to kill the students.
He is soon going to turn into an anti-hero for them.
januarius on April 24, 2007 at 7:14 AM
I think some of the students who are “forgiving” Cho have never known a disturbed person who scared the **** out of them. I have known a few. With people like Cho, I would stay as far away from them as possible. After he killed those people, I would just thank God that he didn’t kill me and not fantasize about the poor misunderstood head-job.
The people who regret not doing more for Cho either never met him or are overriding their natural survivor’s instinct.
Maybe they imagine that their kindness could have changed him and altered history. But others were kind to him and it didn’t stop him from killing. He could have been in therapy for years and on multiple medications and it might not have fixed him. Some people can’t be fixed.
There are some actions that I will never forgive. At some point, I have had to decide to stop thinking about a person or a situation because of the stress it caused me. I “put it to rest”. That’s not forgiveness, it’s moving on.
If I have a friend or family member who hurts me but who apologizes sincerely then I forgive him and give him a second chance without holding it against him, which is what forgiveness means to me. But I am wiser and more wary on the inside. If the person proves that he has modified his attitude or behaviour, then gradually I will let down my guard.
I believe that forgiveness has to be earned. Why forgive Cho when he was not repentant, when he would have been as mean and twisted if he had lived? He committed suicide to avoid punishment and to fulfill his fantasy. He committed suicide out of meanness.
Josephine on April 24, 2007 at 8:31 AM
Thank God we have fully trained mental health specialists here to let us know what he was and wasn’t capable of.
Darth Executor on April 24, 2007 at 8:37 AM
Amen.
CrimsonFisted on April 24, 2007 at 8:53 AM
Sorry people….
This guy IS A TERRORIST. He followed similar patterns as did the jerks that took those planes, albeit in a hotel room instead of a strip club. He filmed himself doing his “political rant”. He wrote an “islamic sounding name” on his arm, signed it on the papers sent to NBC.
Damn it, when a bomber walks into a place in Israel, or Pakistan and blows himself up killing 32 people, HE is a TERRORIST.
When a FOREIGN BORN man, a LEGAL ALIEN in AMERICA walks into classrooms and KILLS 32 people, he is merely an insane CRIMINAL!
BULL$***!
Rick Donaldson on April 24, 2007 at 9:34 AM
why do leftists memorialize or honor people who would have liked them dead?
lorien1973 on April 24, 2007 at 9:40 AM
I don’t think any area of the bible is more misquoted or understood.
The bible is explicit in that you have to go to the person that you have sinned against and ask for forgiveness. All of us on the sidelines can say we “forgive” him all we want, it is the people he has offended and sinned against that have to grant him forgiveness. Wait, you say, but there are 30+ people dead, how can they forgive him? Exactly, that is not a mistake on God’s part, that is one sin that is unforgiven, you can never be forgiven (but by God) for murdering someone.
You can’t “turn the other cheek” in the grave.
The same thing happened in Columbine, all of these ministers came out and “forgave” those wretched boys, all for nought…
right2bright on April 24, 2007 at 9:48 AM
Looks like someonealready has.
Emilie H. on April 24, 2007 at 10:17 AM
Many of you are misquoting Jesus. He was talking to Peter about forgiving his brother in the context of someone who is trying to be obedient to God, which is someone who does not intend to keep on sinning. Jesus condemned those who did not submit to God’s authority, ie, the pharisees…he told them to their faces they were vipers and dead on the inside/walking corpses because they had no love. Christ did not tolerate unrepentant evil, he condemned it. Those who sinned (ie, all of us) and were SORRY (ie, not all of us) THOSE he said we must forgive. You do your brother no favors by not holding them accountable..ie when an alcoholic husb beats his wife, she should NOT forgive by letting him continue to sin against her, she should hold him accountable and not take it.
JustTruth101 on April 24, 2007 at 10:23 AM
Well, I know that if you’re a Christian you’re supposed to “forgive” those who have done a wrong to you. I always read where victims of crimes or their families left behind do forgive and that makes them feel better. I am glad for that if that helps them. However, the fact that he was picked on and then used this as his “excuse” to kill these innocent people doesn’t play with me. This may or may not surprise you but I spent 8 miserable years at St. Michael’s in Schererville, IN, being picked on everyday by the “wonderful students” at that school. Like everyone else who has had to endure something like this (I believe most people get it at some point-some longer and some just a wee bit of time), I didn’t use this as an excuse to kill innocent people and leave a note saying it was the fault of the entire world these people are now dead. The satisfaction I get is in knowing that out of the 56 people, 37 have been in and out of jail at some point in their 43 years and most of them are still stuck in Schererville lamenting all the “newcomers” like me who moved in and taken over “their town”. The best revenge is living well and doing something with your life. I wish that those “well meaning people” would focus on the 32 innocents and not beat themselves up because maybe they never talked to Cho. As JustTruth so eloquently said, forgiving doesn’t mean the person is “off the hook”.
Catie96706 on April 24, 2007 at 10:34 AM
Or what about Prudence? :) Guess the virtues are a bit more comforting as names than the vices. Can’t say I’d spend any time with someone named Anger.
Indeed. It is not for us, ie, those who were not there to forgive him. It doesn’t matter what we feel. Those who survived his rage can do as they choose. I agree with others above that forgiveness is pointless if he’s dead. All you can do is move on, and try to learn from this. Had he lived, I don’t think he would have cared about forgiveness. Those who should be worried about forgiveness is the administration of Vtech. Had I been a student there, and missed my text message ‘UR N DNGER!’ I would be distraught and quite intent to wring my forgiveness out of the incompentent a$$ covering f**ktards that presided over that little circus.
austinnelly on April 24, 2007 at 11:38 AM
A completely deranged, gobsmackingly vile thought about evil in our day.
Freelancer on April 24, 2007 at 11:57 AM
This man was a psychopath.
He planned this. He knew what he was doing.
There’s a difference between being mentally ill and being a psychopath. Being mentally ill indicates he had no connection to reality. Cho new exactly what the outcome of his actions would be and meticulously planned every detail.
While I admire the students for wanting to move past this by trying to forgive Cho by labeling him as ’sick’, he doesn’t deserve sympathy. Let alone a memorial.
flyawaybird on April 24, 2007 at 12:16 PM
“forgiveness” is handed out like donuts at a coffee clache. But that’s not what it is.
To forgive, you carry the weight of whatever the offense was instead of the person to whom it rightfully belongs.
If you “fogive” a loan, that means you have to eat the money you’re not going to get back. The other person goes scot free.
If you “fogive” an insult, that means you get to carry the pain (or whatever) without exacting any retribution – - you never “get even” – - i.e., the other person gets off scot free.
If you Fogive CHO, you’d have to have been on the receiving end of his rampage, and it would mean you would not have Cho pay for what he has done. Instead you’d pay for his deeds.
The bottom line of the forigiveness business is that the person you’re forgiving has to WANT the forgiveness you’re offering, trying to force it onto someone who doesn’t want it or think they even need it just means you’re being a pompous fool spouting words to make you look/feel/think you’re “good”.
erix138 on April 24, 2007 at 12:46 PM
I also wonder about the reactions of the women Cho stalked and the female students who stopped attending class because they were afraid of him. Are they feeling sorry for Cho and writing sweet notes to put on display at his memorial stone? Somehow I doubt it.
A friend of my family’s was murdered when she was 17 years old. More than 20 years later, the killer has never been found. If they ever arrest and convict the blank-blank-blank, I will spit on his grave.
I don’t deny Cho’s family the right to grieve; they should. But there is a right and a wrong and murder is wrong.
I blame Oprah and other New-Age types for all of this “you must forgive in order to heal” baloney.
When someone hands me that line, I ask them to define what forgiveness means to them. Let’s get down to the nuts and bolts of what forgiveness means on a day-to-day basis. If someone can define it, then we can talk, but I usually end up disagreeing with them, anyway. If forgiveness means soft, mushy feelings towards someone I’d cross the street to avoid and call the cops on if he showed up at my door, no thanks. I want to tell them, “Talk to me after you or someone you care about has been abused or murdered by someone”.
Choosing not to forgive someone who doesn’t deserve it is not the same as holding a grudge: it’s learning from experience.
Josephine on April 24, 2007 at 12:46 PM
I can tell you one thing for sure…I’ll bet you a whole mound of money that being dissed by a prostitute was probably the final act of life that sent Cho over the edge.
As someone who once looked at the world thru eyes very much the way Cho did (praise the Lord I got saved, got sane, got a life, and finally got married) I have a real good grasp on the thought processes that were going thru his head. I really wish I didn’t but…
You can not imagine the pain, the rage, the loneliness, and the despair. And the whole time Satan is speaking into your ears telling you to avenge, to take what you deserve, that you are the innocent one and everyone else is guilty. “How dare they do what ever they do when you are there just asking for a little happiness when everyone else has it in abundance AND REFUSES TO SHARE!!!”
Ugly. The echoes of those days still haunt me and I always hope the Lord will Bless me by allowing me to help somebody to avoid that fate.
Trust me…Cho went from one Hell to worse one.
He went from not being able to see hope to not having any.
The worst of all fates. God’s justice.
Eternal Damnation.
babylonandon on April 24, 2007 at 2:07 PM
Forgiveness is something that is earned, not given.
Krydor on April 24, 2007 at 2:08 PM
Let’s hope they can forgive the thief too.
Jim Treacher on April 24, 2007 at 2:11 PM
But by many accounts, Pinky, people were bending over backwards trying to include him, be friendly toward him and draw him out of his shell. He didn’t respond well to any of them.
He probably could have had all the dates, friends and declarations of love anyone could have wanted if he’d just taken his head out of his ass for a moment.
Kensington on April 24, 2007 at 2:42 PM
Not in my bible. If you are asking for forgiveness from an individual for doing them wrong, he can just give it to you (if he is still alive). If you are asking for God’s forgiveness, it is given of His will. You can’t “earn” God’s forgiveness, you can’t pay for it, work for it, beg for it, sacrifice for it, repent for it, it is by God’s grace that he forgives your sins.
What, do you think God can be manipulated by a few I’m sorry’s, or by scrubbing the stairs to the church?
right2bright on April 24, 2007 at 3:24 PM
You are right, but I think that what Krydor meant is that forgiveness requires an effort. Such as asking for it, just for starters. Repentance would be a nice thing too.
It is not something to be handed out like candy by third party, vacuous, preposterous do-gooders yearning to feel good about themselves.
Oh they can do it, to be sure, none have the right to stop them, but it only serves as witness to the utter emptiness of their souls and the sheer magnitude of their ignorance.
Let them preen and posture, throwing forgiveness for that which is not theirs to forgive in gay abandon, it only proves that they know not the next thing about that which they claim to speak of.
They may be fooling themselves, but they won’t fool G-d.
Misha I on April 24, 2007 at 4:18 PM
Misha,
Yep, that’s the sentiment I was going for, sans religious overtones.
Krydor on April 24, 2007 at 4:55 PM
Something I never understood about Christianity. Jesus forgave his murderers, but he did not forgive the murderers of others. Being a Jew, Jesus would not be allowed to forgive in the name of others. In Judaism, ONLY those that are wronged can forgive. Hence why murder is the most heinous of all crimes: because the victim can never forgive the perp. Therefore, forgiving Cho is WRONG! His crime can NEVER be forgiven. Period.
Andy in Agoura Hills on April 24, 2007 at 5:05 PM
Same thing, religion or not. I’m glad I got you right, because you got it exactly right yourself. Which, of course, proves what I’ve always known: we Christians don’t have a monopoly on being right :-)
I know. The problem isn’t, however, with Christianity. The problem is with ignorant fools cherry-picking passages of the Bible that fit their own pre-conceived notions and misinterpreting them beyond reason (see also: “Episcopalian Church, the” or “Bible Optional, the doctrine of” to name a couple of examples).
Misha I on April 24, 2007 at 5:32 PM
The Bible talks about forgiving another’s sinfulness, not necessarily about forgiving (as in condoning) the actual sinful act.
A murderer is still to be punished for his crime. Even though we still wish forgiveness on him for his innate human sinfulness which tempted him to this sin in the first place.
Lawrence on April 24, 2007 at 5:46 PM
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