16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. Romans 1:16-32 The New Covenant

PhoebeMoses on April 23, 2007 at 12:13 PM

Krydor,

Your comment shows a complete lack of understanding of Christian belief. Christianity does not teach that we are “magically” kept from bad things happening to us. That is an absurd assertion. Prayer is about our soul, not our body. Do physical miracles occur? Sure. But I think only those who have experienced them understand how and why they happen. And the phrase “two hands working accomplish more than one thousand hands praying” is equally absurd. Prayer is the most powerful tool we have on this earth. I have personally seen and experienced changes that was accomplished by prayer that a “thousand hands working” would never have accomplished. I suggest you read some of St. Augustine’s writings to understand the power of prayer.

Rightwingsparkle on April 23, 2007 at 12:17 PM

…but arent we creating a whip for our own backs by passing too many laws

sonnyspats1 on April 23, 2007 at 3:45 AM

your counterpoints are well-taken, but i frankly don’t see the church or religion making a difference. we are litigious now, aren’t we? there’s even a religiously-inspired coonstitutional ammendment to ban gay marriage. the problem has never been the abcense of the structure provided by the church. rather it has been neglect of the structure provided by the constitution and the abuse of the interstate commrse clause to abuse the sovereignty of the local to set it’s individual customs.

jummy on April 23, 2007 at 12:23 PM

I think this is wrong, but then I see that when God is in the schools education for the children is much better. Then again I teach in public schools and see how stupid these kids are.

I guess Private Christian schools believe they actually have a duty to God to teach the children vs. babysit them.

Tim Burton on April 23, 2007 at 12:32 PM

RWS,

This is the point where I get snarky and revert to an earlier mindset that I thought I had outgrown. I know all about organized religions, as I was a member of one for a number of years. I know the Bible, and I can still quote it (not chapter and verse, thankfully). I can leave that aside, as you don’t know me, and I don’t know you. However, keep in mind that in discussions such as this, I know the theology pretty good for a layman.

What are some of the accomplishments of prayer versus actual work? There was a schism in the church way back when because of this. Faith versus acts, or somesuch (yes, I’m well aware of what went on, and I’m assuming you do as well). There was a vocal group that was pretty sure that just believing in Jesus as saviour wasn’t enough doing the things Christ would want done was more to the spirit of the thing.

Ideally, that means that instead of praying Jesus magically repairs a spinal cord, one would fund spinal cord research so that they could be healed. Instead of praying that the tornado misses the house, one would go to the storm shelter. Instead of praying that the flood magically stops before engulfing the town, one would prepare the town in case of flood.

Also, I don’t think the Apollo missions were launched on prayer. The Hoover Dam wasn’t built on prayer. The atom was not split via prayer. WWII wasn’t won because of prayer. So on and so forth. Remind me that if I need a wall built not to ask you. There might be some lifting involved, and while JC was a carpenter, I don’t think praying for him to bring his hammer will really get much done. (snark!)

I will give you this, though: St Augustine was a neat dude. That’s a whole ‘nother discussion at some other place.

Krydor on April 23, 2007 at 12:56 PM

jummy on April 23, 2007 at 12:23 PM jummy, The multiple links Alla has alludded to in this thread are conflicting to one another. One from the AFA is stating facts about since the removal of all remnants of the Christian/Judeo God from our public schools statistics show a marked rise in certian behavior (murders) at out learning institutions. Garbage in garbage out remember that one ? On the link to Fawell and Robertson there is a list of cause and effect events that could be debated as whether or not being Biblical. I think what you are picking up here is a sence of totalitarionism, which I might add is understandable given the attitude of these guys. Mabey people like Orell Roberts,Fallwell and other zealots do have a hightened connection with God I don’t know. I am converted from Catholisism where the Pope was the focus of church hierarchy. When the church began to change the absolutes I was taught in school I sought another source which led me to the bible. God is in the bible ! I am of the opinion the nation or party has nothing to fear from the zealots of the faith simply because they don’t speak for all Christians, far from it. It was said that contempt prior to investigation can be out biggest obstacle to learning. On a closing note I beleive that morals need to be taught and morals have great value and that the bible is a great place to find a forgiving merciful God that instead ok beheading a sinner (infidel) is out seeking to welcome the lost souls to his flock with open arms and immesurable love and forgiveness. CABISH GOOMBAH !

sonnyspats1 on April 23, 2007 at 2:46 PM

i fear i won’t be waiting long.

jummy on April 22, 2007 at 10:18 PM

Ding! I believe we have a winner in the Biggest AssHole of the Thread contest.

Dummy, if you weren’t a perfect asshole before saying that, you are now. Congratulations!

Jaibones on April 23, 2007 at 10:57 PM