SF Chronic: Oakland Pizzeria Owner “Tragically” Shoots Armed Robber
posted at 4:38 pm on April 21, 2007 by see-dubya
Send to a Friend |
printer-friendly
Blogging is really pretty easy when you’re a conservative on the West Coast. Just pick up the San Francisco Chronicle and go to town. It’ll be either amazing blue-state snobbery, wacky “Palomino” Bay Area lifestyle alerts, or egregious bias. I see at least two posts leering at me from the Chronic’s homepage, so let’s start with this one:
Catarino Piedra, 41, kept a gun underneath the counter at the Coliseum Pizza and Taqueria that he owned in East Oakland because his drivers had been robbed many times while making deliveries.
Allen Joseph Hicks III, 22, was an accused batterer on probation for a drug conviction and an aspiring rap artist whom everybody in his neighborhood knew as “Boonie.”
The lives of the two men intersected tragically at about 9:30 p.m. Thursday when Hicks, armed with a pistol and joined by two other men, tried to rob Piedra inside the popular pizzeria at 89th Avenue and International Boulevard. Fearful that the assailants might hurt him, his wife and three children — all of whom were inside the restaurant — Piedra pulled out his 9mm semiautomatic pistol and opened fire, killing Hicks, police said.
I suppose it was a tragedy in the dramatic sense–”Boonie’s” flaws of hubris, a violent temper, and too much ganja led him to conclude Mr. Piedra would be an easy mark–like the girlfriend he used to hit so hard he knocked her head through the wall.
But Oakland police urge caution:
“There is definitely a balance,” said Officer Roland Holmgren, department spokesman. “This thing had potential — who knows where the suspects were going to take the situation? But by no stretch of the imagination are we agreeing with or justifying what the owner did.”
Holmgren said, “We’re not saying that we want citizens to go out there and arm themselves and take the law into their own hands. We want citizens to be good witnesses, to be good report-takers and to identify suspects.”
The shooting has left two families traumatized, Holmgren said. “There are no winners in this whole case,” he said.
It’s a zero-sum game, but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t a winner.
UPDATE: IF you think justice is always lax in California, check out this headline:
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: [1] 2 »
Damn, whose side is that cop on?
infidel4life on April 21, 2007 at 4:41 PM
There are some days when I think that if SF/Oakland seceded from the union, I wouldn’t give a s–t.
Chris L. on April 21, 2007 at 4:43 PM
infidel, ditto.
jummy on April 21, 2007 at 4:44 PM
There are plenty of winners in this case. Armed thugs will think twice about robbing and mugging Americans. They will think beforehand if the money is worth losing their lives for.
Catarino Piedra should be applauded.
januarius on April 21, 2007 at 4:46 PM
Catarino should be embarrassed…He only killed 1….
*What? Someone had to say it.*
Tim Burton on April 21, 2007 at 4:49 PM
Here is what will come next from them:
Because a Blue Angels plane just went down in South Carolina at an airshow today, I will bet they will be banning the Blue Angels during Fleet Week / Armed Forces day … maybe even cancelling the entire event.
crosspatch on April 21, 2007 at 4:50 PM
The SF news stations are reporting that gangs could target the pizzeria to retaliate against the owner and possible witnesses. SF and Oakland have very low success rates on solving nondomestic killings. If the husband is standing over the wife with a smoking pistol the success rates are pretty good.
I do have a couple of questions about the description of the thug as an aspiring rap artist. I am curious to know what qualifications might be involved there. I am an aspiring presidential candidate but my chances for success are lower than those of Dennis Kucinich. I supppose my odds of success in the rap music industry would be even lower. I am very depressed right now. I might have to get a job.
mkstach on April 21, 2007 at 4:50 PM
Well, if you get a good look at the perp, and know what you plan to report, it’s kind of tough to do if you’re dead. Idiots, advising us to leave our personal safety to them.
wytammic on April 21, 2007 at 4:52 PM
Ummm…I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out where the “situation” might lead. Surely
BoobieBoonie just wanted to bake cookies or maybe wanted Piedra to help him knit a sweater.Unbelievable.
silenced majority on April 21, 2007 at 4:55 PM
SF also has a DA that has announced that she will not seek the death penalty under any circumstances (except possibly a cop killing).
crosspatch on April 21, 2007 at 4:55 PM
Oh, there is a very clear winner…two of ‘em. The Piedra family, yes, as they weren’t hurt or robbed. And as callous as it might sound, society benefits too, for having one less piece of manure wandering the streets trying to hurt people.
Bob's Kid on April 21, 2007 at 4:57 PM
Or if you can’t do that, at least make sure your corpse collects a lot of good trace evidence for the forensics team.
Blacklake on April 21, 2007 at 5:00 PM
This is just ridiculous…even if it’s not surprising.
New Motto for CA (well, not really new, per se):
The Nut Magnet State
tickleddragon on April 21, 2007 at 5:07 PM
Wrong. Every potential future victim of that dead piece of garbage is a winner. The girlfriend is a winner (whether she realizes it or not). Everyone is a winner.
rmgraha on April 21, 2007 at 5:08 PM
That dog don’t hunt in Florida. Thank you, Jeb, For FS 776.
Kid from Brooklyn on April 21, 2007 at 5:09 PM
It just goes to show that guns do not stop armed criminal scum - decent people with guns stop armed criminal scum.
This type of nonsense reporting isn’t limited to the left coast. Here in the midwest, the kc (red) star is fond of bonehead headlines too.
Several years ago, on the metro page, the headline read, “Home Invasion Turns Violent”. Home invasions by definition are violent, but the kc (red) star singled out the armed home owner who shot a couple of punks as the ‘turned violent’ part. Morons.
locomotivebreath1901 on April 21, 2007 at 5:11 PM
The tragedy is that the other 2 robbers weren’t shot and killed also. They’ll live to rob and kill another day.
roninacreage on April 21, 2007 at 5:13 PM
The sodomites will probably prosecute Piedra for refusing to be a good victim of the poor, disadvantaged youth. Boogie only wanted Piedra’s money, after all, and really had the right to kill Piedra and his whole family if he selfishly refused to hand it over.
stonemeister on April 21, 2007 at 5:17 PM
Don’t blame the cop by wondering “which side he’s on”. They have to be politically correct at all times because they’re under the microscope every second of every day they are in uniform. And it’s retroactive too.
Most cops would suggest the same thing, officially. Be a good witness, stay calm, use your head, give them what they want because material things are not worth your life, blah blah. But the fact of the matter is, when things like that happen and the law abiding citizen successfully defends himself/herself from the predatory scum that would likely do them harm given the motivation, privately, cops are very happy to see the good guy/gal come out ahead and unharmed. Some more cynical cops would go a step further and be happy that one more piece of $hit is dead and gone, forever, and is no longer preying on the weak and defenseless causing good people pain and misery.
SilverStar830 on April 21, 2007 at 5:21 PM
Thomas Hobbes said “All men are created equal because they have access to weapons”.
Since the thug had a pistol, it is only fair that the intended victim had one as well. Mr. Piedra protected his family; he is a hero.
Since the SCOTUS ruled that the police are not required to protect an individual, only society as a whole, it makes self-defense and personal protection a bit more important. Hopefully the absurd gun laws of SF/Oakland and California will not put Mr. Piedra in legal trouble.
DAT60A3 on April 21, 2007 at 5:23 PM
SilverStar830:
I do so want to believe you.
There is the fact that in Oakland, the police Administration are just like any other politician in the area, and when speaking to the public, the police have to toe the party line.
We can only hope that the police were less we Todd it when they were dealing directly with Piedra.
But it’s no surprise why the leftists press see this as a “tragedy,” after all, the good guys won this one.
Merovign on April 21, 2007 at 5:25 PM
It’s not too often that I feel revulsed when reading a news story.
This is one.
What the HELL are those people thinking???
benrand on April 21, 2007 at 5:36 PM
Shut up. Sit down. Stay quiet. Stay passive. Don’t protect yourself.
Die like a good little prole so we can exploit your death to further gun control legislation.
spmat on April 21, 2007 at 5:40 PM
Now that pushing it a bit dontcha think. A craving for pizza!
Kini on April 21, 2007 at 5:50 PM
My late Grandmother had a great lesson for all of the grand children, if you go out looking for trouble, don’t be surprised when it finds you. Guess ole Hicks learned the hard way.
Zorro on April 21, 2007 at 5:55 PM
Good for you Catarino. His drivers have been robbed “many times”, didnt seem to do him much good to be a “good witness”. Although you’d think they’d be really good witnesses since they’ve been robbed so many times.
Dash on April 21, 2007 at 6:02 PM
This is all well and good, as long as the police are actually doing their job to protect me… until then, well, this guy needed to do what he needed to do.
Lawrence on April 21, 2007 at 6:08 PM
They wouldn’t want to hurt the feelings of any prospective criminals.
Every time somebody uses “tragic” to describe something that is in no way tragic, they should have to put a quarter in the Dumb Jar.
Jim Treacher on April 21, 2007 at 6:20 PM
In the words of my favorite blogger/journalist/philosopher, “Boo Freakin’ Hoo!”
RedWinged Blackbird on April 21, 2007 at 6:31 PM
Not meaning to insult police at all, however, maybe they should also keep mops in their squad cars. In situations like this one. If the owner had just waited to report the robbery then the police would be simply mopping up this and his family’s blood.
Where’s the logic in that?
Police are not really here to protect us. That is our job.
hoosierken on April 21, 2007 at 6:42 PM
AAAHAHAHAHA! Carry Out ! AAAHAHAHA! Good one SEE-DUB
sonnyspats1 on April 21, 2007 at 6:43 PM
I’m goin’ to hell for that one.
see-dubya on April 21, 2007 at 6:45 PM
Listen, flatfoot, the moment my life is in serious jeopardy from an armed criminal, I AM the law until the threat is gone, so just suck it up and buy a bag of donuts.
Twit.
Misha I on April 21, 2007 at 6:50 PM
I guess my new goal is supposed to be becoming a “good report taker”?
I’ll pass.
Patton on April 21, 2007 at 6:51 PM
In other words…GOOD VICTIMS. Now go to sleep.
ronsfi on April 21, 2007 at 6:52 PM
And be good at dodging bullets, I guess.
ej_pez on April 21, 2007 at 6:52 PM
This just brings home how SCREWED we will be if we let them take our guns.
ronsfi on April 21, 2007 at 6:56 PM
Because that always works out well for the victim.
Pablo on April 21, 2007 at 7:02 PM
Music a winner as one less
raperap artist.Wade on April 21, 2007 at 7:04 PM
No problem, CW. That’s where all the experienced Muslimas are.
RedWinged Blackbird on April 21, 2007 at 7:06 PM
Actually I had no problem with most of it. There’s a huge difference between “tragically shoots” and “intersected tragically.”
But I’ll agree with everyone here that Officer Holmgren is indeed an idiot. As infidel4life noted in the first post, “Damn, whose side is that cop on?”
asc85 on April 21, 2007 at 7:12 PM
thug + aspiring rap artist = redundant
Doghouse on April 21, 2007 at 7:23 PM
.
Seems they have identified Hicks kind of easy, to bad they can’t identify the other two pieces of trash as easy!
abinitioadinfinitum on April 21, 2007 at 7:23 PM
Just goes to show… we need MORE GUN CONTROL…
Because Gun Control means being able to hit your target… and apparently he missed a couple…
Romeo13 on April 21, 2007 at 7:25 PM
This cop needed to shut up and just be glad that somebody took care of the bad guy for him. This pizzaria guy might just be the last thing keeping SF from sliding into the ocean.
PRCalDude on April 21, 2007 at 7:32 PM
I’ve always wished we could give S.F. to Israel. Have everyone in S.F. pack up and swap places.
Not only would the U.S. gain a fantastic neighbor, but San Franciscans would finally be able to find out just how well “dialog” works.
Call it educational.
Gregor on April 21, 2007 at 7:33 PM
The only tragedy is only one of the punks died. I guess we’ll get to see the REV Al and the REV Jackson out there investigating.
SouthernGent on April 21, 2007 at 7:33 PM
How often do you think this pizzaria will be robbed in the future?
PRCalDude on April 21, 2007 at 7:35 PM
Translated …
We want citizens to be willing victims.
As for being “good report-takers” …
Would that be referring to those reports the cops take within 48 hours of the incident? Yeah. Those work out real well.
Gregor on April 21, 2007 at 7:37 PM
I don’t know about any future “robberies”, but retaliation by Boonie’s homies would not surprise me in the least.
Spiny Norman on April 21, 2007 at 7:40 PM
Bad guys 0 good guys 1. I’d say we had a winner here.
Mojave Mark on April 21, 2007 at 8:01 PM
Fairly recently, there was a COPS (or COPS knock-off) version in SF. All these chases, and arrests of drug-dealing suspects - police planning, gearing up, carrying out apprehensions, video of the drugs they’d found - then every scene was followed up by the judge releasing the suspects, charges dropped. It was jaw-dropping.
After an hour of this, pity for the cops was the first reaction, then irritation at the assinine SF justice system. One can’t expect police integrity to survive if one dumps out the crooks, scot-free every time the police risk their necks to get them off the streets. One day, the police will throw up their hands and say, “It ain’t worth it.”
Course, hearing more and more from people that SF is hostile to kids, hostile to families. Outgoing: The % of children in the population has dropped - one supposes from SF -flight. Incoming: Homeless slackers somehow find enough initiative and moxie to migrate to SF from all over the US, for the social services benefits, then lay around, worthless after that, consuming public resources.
How long can a city continue like that before it crumbles? It won’t need an earthquake, it’s got dry rot and termites working at it.
naliaka on April 21, 2007 at 8:07 PM
Silverstar
I agree. This cop was a “spokesmen” for the department. Most cops on the beat would be overjoyed that this guy was taken out. I believe his statement was all PC and direct from the mayor. Having been formerly married to a Houston Police Dept. Detective (with 38 years experience), they seldom echo the “spokesmen.” My ex would be grateful that this guy was taken out.
Neocon Peg on April 21, 2007 at 8:09 PM
Exactly, Mojave Mark.
Criminal background ROBBER… dead.
Man defending his business and family… Alive.
Traumitized? Maybe. Winner? DEFINATELY!
Mazztek on April 21, 2007 at 8:11 PM
Cops are very good at drawing chalk lines around corpses. If that makes you feel safe and snug, then you don’t need a gun.
RedWinged Blackbird on April 21, 2007 at 8:20 PM
If the Lord ever wanted to give the world a enema, He would stick the tube in SF.
Wade on April 21, 2007 at 8:27 PM
They have not lost a chalk line yet.
Wade on April 21, 2007 at 8:28 PM
Can it take SanFranNan Pelosi with it? Hopefully she will have flown back home when it happens so as to be with her constituants! Liberalism is a mental disorder!
Neocon Peg on April 21, 2007 at 8:29 PM
Of course. Why would a police officer agree with, or think it’s justified for someone to protect their life, and the lives of their family from armed bandits? Fire the cop that made that moronic statement immediately! He’s too dumb to carry scissors, let alone a gun.
greggish on April 21, 2007 at 8:32 PM
Yeah, I would feel really safe with those cops around. Where were they again when Boonie pulled out his gun? Oh. Right. But they are the only ones who should have the guns.
WisCon on April 21, 2007 at 8:36 PM
Greggish
Stop blaming the regular cops! This guy was a SPOKESMAN
Neocon Peg on April 21, 2007 at 8:39 PM
Greggish
Stop blaming the regular cops! This guy was a SPOKESMAN
Neocon Peg on April 21, 2007 at 8:39 PM
The article names him as “Officer Roland Holmgren, department spokesman”. Yes he’s a spokesman. But he’s also an Officer with a badge and a gun. He should have neither.
greggish on April 21, 2007 at 8:44 PM
oops,
continuing…
FOR THE DEPT, not the normal cop on the beat. Never have I seen average officers agree with the spokesman for the department. They are usually at odds because the SPOKESMAN is just shoveling the same PC crap that the mayor and Police Chief wants him to shovel. These cops have it hard as it is, being forced to do their jobs with one hand tied behind their backs, being forced to not do their jobs because someone might get their feelings hurt. Compare these cops to American soldiers who cannot do their jobs because of the politicians who have no clue what is going on, but want to run the war.
Neocon Peg on April 21, 2007 at 8:44 PM
He was just stream-lining the socialism of SF….
Tim Burton on April 21, 2007 at 8:45 PM
Greggish,
Sorry for the hiccup!
Neocon Peg on April 21, 2007 at 8:46 PM
Aspiring rap artist?..well he got the getting shot part right but the surviving part not so much.
EnochCain on April 21, 2007 at 8:47 PM
Just to set the record straight, I am so glad this guy had a gun and was able to take the perp out! I do not agree with the “spokesman.” Americans cannot simply expect the cops to protect us. They cannot. They can only respond to a crime and if the perp is taken out by a well-armed “victim,” it is much less work for them. They are then free to pursue other crime. It is the responsibility of Americans to protect themselves!
Neocon Peg on April 21, 2007 at 8:53 PM
Anyway, just to be clear, because sarcasm doesn’t always read as well as it sounds, I was trying to sacrcastically point out how stupid this particular Cop/Spokesman sounded.
greggish on April 21, 2007 at 8:54 PM
Greggish
Point well taken! I agree it was stupid and lame. More importantly, what does this say to other shop owners who try to protect themselves? Better to just give up and get shot?
Neocon Peg on April 21, 2007 at 8:58 PM
Another good reason to keep on the straight and narrow. Hell is filling up with rappers. I’m not really crazy about harp music, but it beats the crap out of rap.
RedWinged Blackbird on April 21, 2007 at 9:02 PM
Anything beats the heck out of rap! Mindless, racist drivel that plays to uninformed young black people, trying to get them stirred up and keep racism alive and well in this Country.
Neocon Peg on April 21, 2007 at 9:16 PM
*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap
*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap
*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap
*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap
*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap
*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap
*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap
*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap*Clap
auspatriotman on April 21, 2007 at 9:25 PM
He was just robbing folks at gun-point to gain true “artistic integrity” for his budding rap career.
mojowire on April 21, 2007 at 9:32 PM
Hmmmmm….
Scratches chin in deep contemplation…
Trying to see the downside of this…
Thinking how much nicer it would be to visit San Francisco if it happened (I’d surely go there more often)…
…yep. Okay by me.
Bob's Kid on April 21, 2007 at 9:36 PM
Oh and remember guys and gals…San Francisco and Oakland are not the same city…across the bay from each other (with a hefty toll to get across the Bay Bridge) and in different counties.
Bob's Kid on April 21, 2007 at 9:42 PM
Be good little victims and trust the state to take care of you.
Yeah, Right!
conservativecaveman on April 21, 2007 at 9:46 PM
I think the days of staying calm” and not doing anything to upset the killers should be long over.
doufree on April 21, 2007 at 11:03 PM
>Bad guys 0 good guys 1. I’d say we had a winner here.
At the same time, though it’s a trillion times better than being killed himself, the guy has to deal with having killed a person. That’s hard to handle psychologically, regardless of how justified it was. (Ask any sane, decent human being that has had to kill a person. It’s not a good feeling.) The rest of us benefit from the guy’s willingness to stand up against evil and kill a bad guy, and the store owner wins in that he’s alive, but he also loses in that he has to suffer (with the emotional trauma and the legal battle) for the situation that the bad guy created. We should be grateful that he made the sacrifice that made the world a better place for the rest of us.
Doghouse on April 21, 2007 at 11:10 PM
Stuff would be closed on Saturdays.
Doghouse on April 21, 2007 at 11:12 PM
Of course there is a winner, Officer Holmgren, you buttsniffing weenie. The pizza man, and every other solid citizen that this punk will not harm now came out as big winners.
That the castrati on the Oakland police department don’t understand this is just a symptom of the real problems there.
Jaibones on April 22, 2007 at 12:03 AM
It’s a complete mystery alright. But these things happen. C’est la vie. Que sera, sera.
Bill Ramey on April 22, 2007 at 12:12 AM
Well, the legal battle, if any, is the responsibility of the city. Even Sayet’s words about the essence of liberalism being the elevation of evil at the expense of good seems appropriate right now.
The Monster on April 22, 2007 at 12:34 AM
Note: I’m not a partisan. I was a (stupid, youthful) liberal who voted for Bill Clinton and (God help me) Michael “Hey, I can drive a tank!” Dukakis. Seriously.
And as I’ve noted before, I’ll never be much of a partisan Republican. Conservative? Sure. Libertarian? Definitely. Partisan? Not so much.
But … when people ask me why I’ll be voting Republican for a long, long, long time (or for whoever is planning on defeating the Democrats) …
… this story is the answer. Stories like this one.
Anybody who thinks that a man defending his life and his family’s life is in the wrong, anybody who thinks a predator getting shot is a “tragedy,” has simply lost his way in life, lost his soul.
I’ll be voting for the other guy in that debate.
When people ask why I’ll have a “Fred! in 2008″ sign in my yard … this story is going to be exhibit # 1.
Shorter me: Screw liberals. Jesus.
Professor Blather on April 22, 2007 at 12:34 AM
Oh, and although I haven’t read through the thread, I can take a guess why the MSM is reporting it this way.
By any chance … was the “victim” Black and the guy defending his family white?
Because that would explain it.
Just ask Chris Newsome and Channon Christian. (Google it, Rosie.)
Professor Blather on April 22, 2007 at 12:36 AM
Yes, there are:
- Mr. Catarino Piedra
- His family
- Business
- Society
- Freedom
- Good
Entelechy on April 22, 2007 at 1:00 AM
California has pockets of insane liberalism. The rest of the state is a paradise on Earth.
Entelechy on April 22, 2007 at 1:04 AM
I live in California and I think you wrote that backward.
California has pockets of paradise on Earth. The rest of the State is insane liberalism.
Gregor on April 22, 2007 at 1:58 AM
I like my pizza with a nice 9mm pepperoni.
Good work, Mr. P!
If I was in the neighborhood I’d order two pies with everything.
profitsbeard on April 22, 2007 at 2:06 AM
Professor B–looks a little less clear cut than that. Mr. Piedra’s Pizzeria is also a Taqueria. So unless there is some obscure leftist racial point system at work here, I don’t think they can run with that angle.
see-dubya on April 22, 2007 at 2:25 AM
like my pizza with a nice 9mm pepperoni.
Good work, Mr. P!
If I was in the neighborhood I’d order two pies with everything.
profitsbeard on April 22, 2007 at 2:06 AM
Yeah I;m going to call Mr. P. and order acouple pies on my cc to give to anyone he wants to give them to. The Cop spokesman is only spouting department policy handed down from the courts. The dreaded 9th district in not far from that place and the ACLU is embedded close by too!
sonnyspats1 on April 22, 2007 at 2:37 AM
I think you’re right. And as a bay area native, I’ll tell you all right now; if it went down the other way this wouldn’t have even made the news. Just another tic on Oaktown’s clock.
I’ve got friends on OPD and I can’t imagine how they do it.
liquidflorian on April 22, 2007 at 2:44 AM
He will remembered as the next Tupac.
It is so good to be dead to say the least.
Ouabam on April 22, 2007 at 3:16 AM
I suppose they would have been happy if Mr. Piedra was dead, leaving behind a widow and fatherless children because he was a good citizen who would not dare have a gun?
Actually, I think yes. A women with no husband to help her with her children … perfect victim for the governemt to take care of.
hadsil on April 22, 2007 at 5:14 AM
I’ll do some looking, but I believe the San Francisco DS had very specifically said even a cop killing wouldn’t move her to seek a death penalty. Maybe if you threw some ham at the local mosque and yelled an ethnic slur, but otherwise no.
Freelancer on April 22, 2007 at 6:00 AM
DS = DA
Freelancer on April 22, 2007 at 6:01 AM
Huh? He is their spokesman. If the police don’t like what is being said they should change their spokesman.
Main Entry: spokes·man
Pronunciation: ’spOks-m&n
Function: noun
Etymology: probably irregular from spoke, obsolete past participle of speak
: a person who speaks as the representative of another or others often in a professional capacity
Wade on April 22, 2007 at 10:10 AM
Comment pages: [1] 2 »