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Weekend VTech thread: Cho may have told someone of his plans Plus “33rd Victim” Update!” CORNELL PRESIDENT: 33 “Members of our family”

posted at 9:20 pm on April 20, 2007 by Allahpundit
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I’ll be away this weekend but star guestblogger See-Dubya will be keeping tabs on the case. Check this space for updates on Saturday and Sunday. I’m sure there’ll be something.

The news tonight is that my theory about Emily Hilscher having been merely a target of opportunity might be disintegrating:

ABCNews has obtained new court documents that show police are probing the possibility that Seung-Hui Cho may have confided to someone else his plans to unleash a bloody campus massacre that left 32 victims dead earlier this week…

[A]nother warrant affidavit filed Friday … says that “there is probable cause to believe the computer information maintained by Virginia Tech for Seung-Hui Cho and victim Emily Hilscher, may contain information relating” to a murder. The warrant also cites a criminal investigative analyst who tells police “that in 80 to 85 percent of homicide cases the victim is known to the offender.”

On Thursday, Virginia Tech police seized Hilscher’s laptop computer and her cell phone.

They don’t say in whom he might have confided but they do mention that he spoke to his parents every Sunday night. Maybe he said something oblique to them the night before the shootings and they didn’t realize the import? As for Hilscher, Cho of course had a history of stalking women online, and there’s now circumstantial evidence to suggest that she might have been on his mind:

Many days, Andy Koch would return to his dorm to find suitemate Seung-Hui Cho standing in the hall, staring out a window that offered a sweeping view of neighboring West Ambler Johnston Hall.

Cho never lived at West AJ, as the towering dorm was called. He had no friends there, as far as anyone knows. And yet a room on the fourth floor was the spot where the 23-year-old senior chose to start the deadliest one-man shooting spree in modern U.S. history.

The same article goes on to theorize why Cho might have targeted the engineering department. Someone e-mailed me on the day of, or the day after, the shootings to suggest that he may have started off as an engineering major and then shifted to a “soft” major like English when he couldn’t keep up. Sounds like that might be close to the truth:

Another mystery: Why did the English major target Norris, a building dominated by engineering and foreign language classes? Chris Davids, a Virginia Tech senior who went to high school with Cho, said he remembers seeing Cho on campus a lot freshman year, and concluded that Cho, like him, started out as an engineering major.

“If he started in engineering and had to switch to English that might be a reason why he’s angry at the engineering department,” Davids said.

Another lingering question here, which I asked in one of the earlier posts, is when exactly Cho’s introversion metamorphosed into something pathological and dangerous. His great aunt in South Korea told the media that he was diagnosed with autism as a kid, and now it’s come out that some of this classmates before he got to college suspected he might have kept “a hit list.” That may just be a case of kids making up stories about the weirdo in their midst, but it’s worth noting that there are two sources for it and they come from different points in his childhood: one went to middle school with him and the other was with him from eighth grade through high school. Strange that a rumor like that would persist without there being some substance to it.

That’s all I’ve got for now. Here’s the statement the Cho family issued earlier today. According to cops, no fewer than 168 and possibly as many as 225 shots were fired; most of the victims were hit at least three times. Will this make a difference in public opinion on gun control? CBS took a poll and found that it hasn’t. Not yet, anyway.

UPDATE (by See-dubya): While hard news on the shooting is slowing down, reactions are coming in from big columnists and also from Planet Zroknob, aka Daily Kos, emphasis mine:

My heart aches. Of course I mourn the passing of the thirty-two Virginia Polytechnic University students, as do we all throughout the globe. Nevertheless, I cannot forget how my heart hurts for the thirty-third victim, the one the media never seems to count among those killed, Seung-Hui Cho. On April 16, 2007 thirty-three lovable and fragile individuals passed.

In case that disappears, or if you can only take a small dose of this without projectile regurgitation, or if you just don’t like giving Zroknob the traffic, Little Green Footballs has a screencap with more than enough crazy for you.

Remember: The only person worthy of hatred is George Bush. And Dick Cheney and John Bolton and John Ashcroft and Joe Lieberman. But Psy-Cho? We feel his pain.

I’m not going to apologize for dubbing this psycho “Psy-Cho”, by the way. He wants to be feared and taken seriously and have his name spoken in hushed tones. I’m not going to give the respect he never tried to earn, and I want anyone who wants to do what he did to know that his legacy will be eternal ridicule and derision. As I wrote in the other column, it works for big-time terrorists like Abimael Guzman and Zarqawi, so it will work for malfunctioning poser nerd terrorist wannabes like Psy-Cho.

Anyway, more reactions: Victor Davis Hanson shares (scroll down) his own crazy roommate story from–can you believe he went to UC Santa Cruz? This UC Santa Cruz? It involves flaming arrows. He recommends passing along this advice to freshmen entering the modern, “therapeutic” university:

You will meet very eccentric people there, with all sorts of problems and strong passions, most of them antithetical to your own. Don’t expect moral guidance necessarily from your professors, or physical protection from your colleagues or the administration. Ask for such help, but don’t count on it. Instead keep you eyes open and at all times expect the worse.”

Peggy Noonan visits the therapeutic university culture as well:

The school officials I saw, especially the head of the campus psychological services, seemed to me endearing losers. But endearing is too strong. I mean “not obviously and vividly offensive.” The school officials who gave all the highly competent, almost smooth and practiced news conferences seemed to me like white, bearded people who were educated in softness. Cho was “troubled”; he clearly had “issues”; it would have been good if someone had “reached out”; it’s too bad America doesn’t have better “support services.” They don’t use direct, clear words, because if they’re blunt, they’re implicated.

I’d say that’s pretty blunt.

IVY LEAGUE BALDERDASH UPDATE also by See-Dub: Not to be outdone by Yale’s outlandish banning of realistic weapons from stage plays, Cornell President David Skorton raises the bar for Ivy league numbskullery:

“We are one,” said Cornell President David Skorton. “We are one community, one people, one planet. We are here today to affirm that oneness … We are here to bear witness to the passing of the 33 members of our family at Virginia Tech University who have met an untimely and terrible fate.”

And, he said, “We are here for all of those who are gone, for all 33. We are here for the 32 who have passed from the immediate to another place, not by their own choice. We are also here for the one who has also passed.”

He added that those present were there to “join with our friends in the Korean and Korean-American communities for we are all one family, most especially today we share the same sorrow and the same need for comfort and reassurance.”

Good gravy. What preening folderol. “Ooh, ooh, look how exceptionally moral and broad-minded I am–I consider Psy-Cho part of my very family. Top that. You can’t? I win the tolerance sweepstakes. Yay ME!”

Why in the world did President Skorton give that shout-out to the Korean communities at Cornell? One of two possible explanations is that Skorton thinks they were feeling a great degree of racial guilt for the sins of their monstrous blood-brother. (“Racial guilt” isn’t something most people feel these days, but it is indoctrinated in Ivy League schools.) I’m sure he and most of the Cornell faculty blubber themselves to sleep over the collective sins of white dudes around the world, so it’s only logical to think that Korean-Americans need some special affirmation when a Korean student does something bad. But no need to worry, my friends. President Skorton has absolved you of the stain of Cho.

The other possibility: maybe he was trying to head off an Ugly Racial Incident. But for President Skorton’s brave inclusion of the Korean American Community in his address, Cornell’s vast Intolerant Redneck-American Community would have perpetrated an outrageous wave of despicable hate crimes upon every Korean in Ithaca.

But now that’s not going to happen. Thank you President Skorton, for delivering the Korean-American Community at Cornell from such an awful fate!

Hat tip to Wytammic, whose daughter goes to Cornell. Which would mean Wytammic is paying President Skorton’s salary. Think about that when you write those tuition checks, pal.


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3:22am? Holy crap, I need a life!

smellthecoffee on April 22, 2007 at 3:23 AM

As do many of us. But we aren’t killing 32 people.

RightWinged on April 22, 2007 at 4:08 AM

When people murder each other in South Korea, who do their college presidents appeal to for calm?

Jim Treacher on April 22, 2007 at 4:17 AM

When people murder each other in South Korea, who do their college presidents appeal to for calm?

Jim Treacher on April 22, 2007 at 4:17 AM

Micronesians

RightWinged on April 22, 2007 at 5:26 AM

So when they are kids they are victims, and we feel for them, and they hell that they have to live in, until they become adults and start molesting, and now they are monsters, sickos, perverts, etc.

Yes, exactly. Many people live through horrible things and then make the choices necessary to act decently and to not perpetuate cycles of abuse. What you might have been through may explain why you do things, but it will never excuse doing them.

Everything is a choice, and you can make the right one or you can make the wrong one. Unless you truly don’t know the difference between the two, then mental illness is no defense.

Pablo on April 22, 2007 at 7:02 AM

“We are also here for the one who has also passed.”

Mr. Skelton,
You do realize that by claiming Cho as a victim you are focusing the blame elsewhere? And where else is responsible placed at VT?

Who else is in charge there at VT? Is that someone you, Mr. Skelton? Are you now placing blame on yourself for this murderous rampage?

Think this one through Mr. Skelton before running off at the mouth again. I think we can almost guarantee lawsuits with your effective transferance of responsibility from Cho to yourself.

Lawrence on April 22, 2007 at 9:57 AM

Yes… I know Skelton is form Cornell, not VT. Just making a point regarding his inane statement.

Lawrence on April 22, 2007 at 10:09 AM

I have two kids young adult offspring in college and got e-mails from both universities about the VT incident. Neither of the messages said anything about Cho being a victim, which is a good thing, as the sharp edge of my tongue would have been unleashed immediately. I already tell Berkeley when they call for money why I won’t give them any. I feel sorry for the poor undergraduate on the other end of the phone, but them’s the breaks.

Bob's Kid on April 22, 2007 at 10:58 AM

Using the victim-to-perpetrator cycle of those who have been sexually abused is an interesting idea, but unfortunately without merit.

I’ll use myself because it’s what I know. I was molested, several times. I have not perpetrated the same upon anyone. In fact, it was one of my biggest fears in becoming a father. I recognize that it would be evil of me, and so I don’t do it.

Sure, bipolar disorder and a history of sexual abuse makes it so that I have what I consider evil impulses. I get the urge sometimes to do horrible things. I used to feel horrible about these thoughts and impulses until a friend asked me a simple question: “Does thinking about robbing a bank make you a bank robber?”

Evil is as evil does. Let’s set aside those who could have, and should have, stopped him before he got the guns. From the perspective of personal responsibility, he let the evil get out.

Allowing your sickness to get out and harm others is evil. Consider Hepatitis C or HIV. Those who contract it have a moral duty to NOT let it out to hurt others. When they do, they are evil, period.

I have had the makings of a ticking time-bomb more than once in my life, but two things intervened to stop me:

1. Friends/Family
2. My conscience (what was left of it)

The more I look at Cho and what he did, the less I see just plain schizo-effective disorder. I think he had a real psychotic break at some point. Those who know what real psychosis is know that you never come back from it, but you can certainly prevent it from happening.

He did not take care of himself and a college campus was the wrong place for such a person. He knew that and ultimately embraced the hate he had until it destroyed his mind.

unamused on April 22, 2007 at 5:00 PM

Mr. Skelton,
You do realize that by claiming Cho as a victim you are focusing the blame elsewhere?

The last thing a budding schizophrenic or bipolar needs to hear right now is that they are helpless in the face of their disease.

It’s this kind of find-your-inner-child BS that kept me sick for years AND drove me away from those who would help me pull myself up and carry on. Taking responsibility for oneself is VERY therapeutic for the mentally ill.

This is just irresponsible PC crap.

unamused on April 22, 2007 at 5:04 PM

Pablo is right on.

unamused on April 22, 2007 at 5:06 PM

unamused on April 22, 2007 at 5:06 PM

Seriously, isn’t there some sort of limit to the number of times a person can beat a dead horse on a single thread?

tiekitwist on April 22, 2007 at 6:38 PM

unamused on April 22, 2007 at 5:06 PM

Seriously, isn’t there some sort of limit to the number of times a person can beat a dead horse on a single thread?

tiekitwist on April 22, 2007 at 6:38 PM

Twist, if you’re bored read another thread. If you want to say something, say it. Don’t suggest other people not have their say especially when they’re making a great deal of sense about a subject they have extensive personal experience with. I have found unamused’s, and others’ comments compelling on this topic. You can disagree and debate all day here if you like. You can even tell someone to shut up sometimes too. If you do for no apparent reason you look like a shmuck. Just sayin, have a nice day.

Buck Turgidson on April 22, 2007 at 7:29 PM

Regarding unamused “making a great deal of sense about a subject they have extensive personal experience with”:
Absolute moral authority, anyone?

Anyways, I appreciate your permission to say something if I want to say it and read another thread if I get bored and disagree and debate and tell other people to shut up. Boy, I was really worried before you said that, but now I feel FREE!

P.S. I don’t really think I look like a schmuck. Pretty sure I’m just saying what a lot of people are thinking, and what’s it to you? Just saying… ;)

tiekitwist on April 22, 2007 at 8:04 PM

tiekitwist on April 22, 2007 at 8:04 PM

Gee, I guess you told me. I look forward to more of your thought- provoking insight.

Buck Turgidson on April 22, 2007 at 8:17 PM

Paranoid schizpohrenics are not “let off the hook” I fact if anyting when shown to have the disease they should be locked up for the rest of their lives…(Like John Hinckley)
By the way those who doubt that mental illness , (schizophrenia )is often repsonsible I call your attention to this fact…mass shootings began in earnest in the 1960’s….which coincidentally was the beginning of deinstitutionalization…when they began shutting down mental hospitals and the mentally ill were put out on the street in many cases. Safe to say that is a failed plan….
Haven’t you read so many times of a mentally ill son or daughter killing their parent or themselves? Of course that is just ignored because they don’t hurt anyone outside the family…That’s okay apparently…If they would start hospitalizing these people again, it would solve many problems not just mass killings.

Mellen on April 22, 2007 at 8:21 PM

There is no “debate” on whether schizohrenia is a brain disease. It is shocking to me that many here don’t know that….40 years ago it was believed to be a psychological disorder or neuoroses. It has long since been proven otherwise……Scary that people here don’t know that! Wonder if that’s why Cho’s strange behavior was tolerated as just weird….
You can’t prevent something or help the situation if you do not know what you are dealing with…..

Mellen on April 22, 2007 at 8:28 PM

There is no “debate” on whether schizohrenia is a brain disease. It is shocking to me that many here don’t know that….40 years ago it was believed to be a psychological disorder or neuoroses. It has long since been proven otherwise……Scary that people here don’t know that! Wonder if that’s why Cho’s strange behavior was tolerated as just weird….
You can’t prevent something or help the situation if you do not know what you are dealing with…..

Mellen on April 22, 2007 at 8:28 PM

By the way…..it is still evil…(.But due to a mental illness…)Andrea Yates
Now Evil without aid of a mental illness
Let’s see,
Scott Petereson, Pam Smart, The Killers in the book “In Cold Blood.”….Whitey Bulger,Ted Bundy,Gary Gilmore,John Wayne Gacy,Lizzie Borden,Richard Speck,Al Capone,leopold and Loeb,Karla Homolka,,
.Now some might argue some of these had mental defects, but they did not have the hallucinations, psychotic episodes that are the calling card of mentally deranged killers.

Mellen on April 22, 2007 at 8:54 PM

Cho spent time in the mental health system. Was he ever diagnosed with schizophrenia or was this diagnosis made posthumously? Can you really even do that? I think “experts” advanced their theories after the fact. If they are correct, why wasn’t the diagnosis made when he was committed after people raised red flags? In the mental health community there is resistance to “labeling” people via diagnosis. Unless you’re bipolar. They seem less resistant to that diagnosis for some reason. Schizophrenia? Unless you are actually talking to your imaginary girlfriend on the couch, they think twice. BPD? forget it. Insurance might not cover it, and then where would I be?

Buck Turgidson on April 22, 2007 at 9:19 PM

Wonder if that’s why Cho’s strange behavior was tolerated as just weird….

This touches on another aspect of this whole thing that I haven’t heard too much said about. Since on a typical college campus, you have people with bizarre piercings, hair color and style, outlandish clothes, white people with dread-locks, guys wearing dresses, you name it, all in the name of “life-style choice,” it’s pretty hard to rise to the level of getting pointed out as being so weird that there needs to be some kind of intervention. There is such a strong ethos “who am I to say who or what is (insert favorite word here) evil, wrong, insane, perverted, criminal, that students have a ready-made template for ignoring someone like Cho. It’s already the default option.

Using the victim-to-perpetrator cycle of those who have been sexually abused is an interesting idea, but unfortunately without merit.

I appreciate the comment, unamused. It was a sort of thought experiment, because I feel like there ought to be a way to have Cho be responsible, and evil, and at the same time acknowledge that people around him didn’t do what they might have. When I was in college back in Ann Arbor, there was this girl who went off her meds, once, and started not sleeping, smoking dope, and wandering around with her hamsters in a cage, dressed in pj’s and bathrobe. She just got weirder and weirder. My then girlfriend knew her family from way back someplace (her parents knew this girl’s parents), and so one day she just stuffed this blossoming nutjob into her car, and drove non-stop to the Cleveland Clinic, and then went through 24 hours of hell, trying to get her admitted, while keeping track of this loopy chick who was wandering off all the time. This girlfriend of mine was like that, she would put herself out there for people she barely knew. Anyway, it is an example of what didn’t happen in Cho’s case. Say what you want. He was bizarre for a looooooong time, and that one teacher (who tutored him after Giovanni booted him out of her class) was the only one who tried to go to bat for him, only to be rebuffed by an adminstration handcuffed by rules that are designed to avoiding lawsuits, as opposed to accomplishing what is needed by the people on the ground. How much control did he really have? I’m not a psychiatrist, but I bet that how much control a person really has varies on a case by case basis. So no one knows or will ever know how culpable this guy really was at bottom. HE. IS. RESPONSIBLE. ULTIMATELY. But this needn’t have happened. This makes me want to watch the movie Beautiful Mind again. Btw, how accurate was that movie considered to be from a mental illness standpoint?

This has been going through my head for days. There is an amazing section in Deuteronomy, chapter 21 verses 1-9, which deals with a situation where a body is found outside of town, and no one knows how this person died. They measure to the nearest town, and then representatives of that town have to bring a heifer, which they take down into a “rough valley,” and break its neck. There is also an atonement ceremony in which all the elders of the town have to wash their hands over the dead heifer, and say, “Our hands have not shed this blood, neither have our eyes seen it,” and this effects their atonement. Without getting humg up on the rather cryptic “fix” for this problem, what is striking about this passage is the extent to which people are expected to have knowledge and oversight over what is going on in their midst. This wasn’t a problem of commission, it was a problem of omission; they didn’t know what happened to this person, and because they had taken their eye off the ball, they are considered responsible to a certain extent.

We’re not holding anywhere near here.

smellthecoffee on April 22, 2007 at 11:31 PM

it’s pretty hard to rise to the level of getting pointed out as being so weird that there needs to be some kind of intervention. There is such a strong ethos “who am I to say who or what is (insert favorite word here) evil, wrong, insane, perverted, criminal, that students have a ready-made template for ignoring someone like Cho. It’s already the default option.

smellthecoffee on April 22, 2007 at 11:31 PM

You’re right, however that didn’t happen in this case. The campus community did point out his anti-social behavior. It was the psychiatric community that dropped the ball. Everyone is diagnosing Cho as this or that. Too bad the Blacksburg shrinks didn’t share that view.

Buck Turgidson on April 23, 2007 at 10:20 AM

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