Last night my wife and I attended the symphony. The orchestra opened with a piece called Fratres by Arvo Part. Now, I am usually not one for sentimentality – but sometimes, music can explain things and feelings that words just cannot. As I listened,…

Update: Another non-surprise. Expect the media to seize on the boldfaced part any minute now:

So he was picked on. Fair enough, only why kill the college kids then, who by all accounts went out of their way to actually help Cho? Why not go into his old high school?

Your over-the-top attitude and pious, dogmatical insistance that no one speculate on “Ismail Ax,” the West Bank student who grew up in Saudi Arabia (you don’t mention Debbie Schlussel’s accuracy there), Cho’s anti-Christian and debauchery rant, or anything else you deign should not be speculated upon is really becoming annoying on this blog. And you are attempting to dominate the discussion on every string. Count the number of your posts.

If you disagree with someone, be respectful and not rude like you have been lately. Also, it really is babyish (Ann Coulter would say “womanish”) when either conservatives or liberals whine for apologies by people. What is the point? Especially when they are doing such great work as Debbie Schlussel in educating Americans about the Religion of Peace.

What a naive and bizarre comparison. Being perhaps overvigilant in speculating about a possible jihadi connection right after the atrocity (especially the rash of sudden jihad syndrome lately) is somehow equivalent to wishing death upon Tony Snow and Dick Cheney? That is extreme.

Now can we please move on to another topic? You have really worn this one out.

januarius on April 19, 2007 at 7:58 PM

I’ve repeatedly said that those points are all valid to keep in mind. But you’re repeating of them over and over and over is out of control. You’re desperate to prove this anti-American SK attititude and jihadi motivation for the killings, that you’re not just letting the evidence lead where it may, and waiting patiently for anything concrete.

I’ve made the distinction between irresponsible speculation and speculation time and time again, but you continue to highlight bits out of context, without looking at the entire picture that is developing.

As for the apologies.. Oh, excuse me, I guess I shouldn’t be pissed that Schlussel, and her lap dog (YOU) are running around wildly claiming that some teacher in Indonesia is Cho to further your agenda to prove that this guy was a Muslim. Look, Coulter is right about not needing to apologize most of the time. I didn’t care about what she said about Edwards (despite all the whiners around here). But it’s not as much the apology as the official and public retraction of her lie that she pushed.

AGAIN, the fricken guy didn’t even look like Cho, but she insisted it was, and you linked to the post and told people here to eat crow. Now you can’t find the post unless (like me) the specific post’s permalink is in your history. In fact, and all she did was remove all the lies, and just basically say “guess it wasn’t him”. She didn’t make an announcement that she’s sorry for misleading people. It wasn’t like she got fed bad information SHE WISHED for something obviously not true to be true to suit her agenda.

Look, having this guy turn out to be some type of jihadist suits my “agenda”, but I’m not going to make an ass out of myself using sketchy evidence fragments to wildly speculate. I think Islam in general is the problem, not radical Islam. I want Muslims and middle eastern looking people, especially younger men profiled at airports, etc. I want people to understand the threat that they forgot since 9/11. But I’m not going to look like an ass to do it, by repeating the same things over and over. Look, we know about Ax Ishmael, but we don’t know what it means. There are about 5 options right now, and even if it turns out to be some reference to Islam, as I stated he also talks about Columbine, he compares himself to Jesus, and about John Mark Karr and Debra Lafave raping. It’s hardly, Allahuakbar.

So let’s just let the evidence speak for itself. How about “silent” speculating. Saying things like “hmmm, XYZ is odd. Nothing concrete buy XYZ can relate to Islam like this. Let’s wait until the evidence comes in to see…” Then leave it where it is. You don’t need to repeat it over and over and link to bogus posts by your hero bloggers.

As for the comparison to HuffPo commenters, don’t spin what I was trying to say. I’m not saying the two issues are the same. I’m saying it’s tough to mock their commenters for stupid things they do, when you’re making us look bad with your behavior.

Now can we please move on to another topic? You have really worn this one out.

januarius on April 19, 2007 at 7:58 PM

…Him!?!

Bad Candy on April 19, 2007 at 8:40 PM

Yeah… me?

If this doesn’t spawn copycats, I’ll be very surprised

Oh, already has. A whole school district just north of us was locked down today because of a threat. Even our district was on high alert and all the gates were locked. More cops around the campuses.

We’ll see more of this, I guarantee.

It has to be nipped in the bud, this rumor mongering. There are very few “good” (as in plausible) conspiracy theories and there are thousands of bad ones. This “was he a muslim convert SJS guy” conspiracy theory is one of the worst ones yet, for reasons pointed out by those more eloquent than I.

By all means, speculate on this, that or the other. When it becomes clear that certain speculations are flat out wrong or utterly irrelevant, then retract them and open a new line of inquiry.

That’s my only point – I think he filmed it all when no one was around, as someone said before, probably some during spring break?

In an interview yesterday, his roommates said they believed he had been observant of their schedules, and knew when they’d all be gone from the suite. Was Cho still attending classes at all?

The WaPo article is fantastic. Cho seemed to go to some far-flung locations to get guns and ammo. I do wonder how he got around. The police seem to say he didn’t have a car on campus, but they have been familiar with the vehicle in his video from day 1. I don’t know what that means.

Debbie Schlussel

For the love of Pete, she is not a saint. Ask Misha and the other conservative, and I mean conservative, sites she threatened to sue when they took her to task for the Jill Carroll “theories” she propagated.
And for that matter, she’s been hugely off base on this story as well, not to mention posting pictures of some innocent guy that she thought may have been the killer, praying for a scoop so she can go on t.v.

The truth of the matter is, you’ve made your point about your view of South Korean culture. We get it.

Now can we please move on to another topic? You have really worn this one out.

januarius on April 19, 2007 at 7:58 PM

…Him!?!

Januarius, you need to shut up, seriously. You’re giving everyone a bad name here. As I said, how can we bash HuffPo commenters when they wish death on Tony Snow and Dick Cheney, etc. when you and a couple of your pals are making us look stupid over here?

RightWinged on April 19, 2007 at 6:05 PM

Your over-the-top attitude and pious, dogmatical insistance that no one speculate on “Ismail Ax,” the West Bank student who grew up in Saudi Arabia (you don’t mention Debbie Schlussel’s accuracy there), Cho’s anti-Christian and debauchery rant, or anything else you deign should not be speculated upon is really becoming annoying on this blog. And you are attempting to dominate the discussion on every string. Count the number of your posts.

If you disagree with someone, be respectful and not rude like you have been lately. Also, it really is babyish (Ann Coulter would say “womanish”) when either conservatives or liberals whine for apologies by people. What is the point? Especially when they are doing such great work as Debbie Schlussel in educating Americans about the Religion of Peace.

You’re giving everyone a bad name here. As I said, how can we bash HuffPo commenters when they wish death on Tony Snow and Dick Cheney, etc. when you and a couple of your pals are making us look stupid over here?

What a naive and bizarre comparison. Being perhaps overvigilant in speculating about a possible jihadi connection right after the atrocity (especially the rash of sudden jihad syndrome lately) is somehow equivalent to wishing death upon Tony Snow and Dick Cheney? That is extreme.

Now can we please move on to another topic? You have really worn this one out.

It seems to me that this argument echoes somewhat the debate over what to do about Iran. Are we presently ignoring the warning signs? Or if we don’t, we wring our hands saying, there’s nothing we can do.

By no means a perfect analogy, I know. But it’s interesting that the battlelines in the blogging world seem drawn up on the same sides in both debates. Again, just a thought experiment.

I don’t think we should discount the power of learning to tune out your roommates.

In college, I lived with a friend that decided to get an electric guitar. He felt that the best time for practicing was around 3-4am. This fit perfectly with his schedule because his first class was at noon. My first class was at 7am.

I’m not too confrontational, so, I just learned to sleep through his practicing – and yes, he was practicing with the guitar plugged into the amp although the amp was fairly low. His room was right next to mine and the three of us living in the basement all had to keep our doors open because there was only one window (in his room) so we needed to keep the air flowing.

My point simply being that it’s possible that he made the video without waking up his roommates. Especially if they had developed a knack for sleeping through other people’s late night tv watching, or hanging out, etc.

Also, that might explain why he is speaking in that odd voice. While I agree that it sounds like Napoleon Dynamite, I also think that it sounds like he’s trying to muffle his voice by speaking low, but still sound angry by speaking intensely.

However, I would not be at all surprised to find that the videos had been made somewhere else entirely. I just think it’s still possible they were made in his dorm common area.

JadeNYU on April 19, 2007 at 6:48 PM

This is all true, but my point wasn’t really about noise. It was about the odds that one of the other 5 people could at any point wake up and go to the bathroom, etc. and find him posing with guns and knives and foil his entire plan. That’s my only point – I think he filmed it all when no one was around, as someone said before, probably some during spring break?

Info for Allah and everyone else on Harper Hall, where Cho lived. I believe he lived in a 3 bedroom suite (2 people per bedroom), but I can’t remember which one. At any rate, there is a map here that you can enlarge to get a better feel for the place. The “common area” in each suite is way to close to the bedrooms for him to have done any of his filming while people were home sleeping.

http://www.studentprograms.vt.edu/vtour/harper.php

RightWinged on April 19, 2007 at 6:09 PM

I don’t think we should discount the power of learning to tune out your roommates.

In college, I lived with a friend that decided to get an electric guitar. He felt that the best time for practicing was around 3-4am. This fit perfectly with his schedule because his first class was at noon. My first class was at 7am.

I’m not too confrontational, so, I just learned to sleep through his practicing – and yes, he was practicing with the guitar plugged into the amp although the amp was fairly low. His room was right next to mine and the three of us living in the basement all had to keep our doors open because there was only one window (in his room) so we needed to keep the air flowing.

My point simply being that it’s possible that he made the video without waking up his roommates. Especially if they had developed a knack for sleeping through other people’s late night tv watching, or hanging out, etc.

Also, that might explain why he is speaking in that odd voice. While I agree that it sounds like Napoleon Dynamite, I also think that it sounds like he’s trying to muffle his voice by speaking low, but still sound angry by speaking intensely.

However, I would not be at all surprised to find that the videos had been made somewhere else entirely. I just think it’s still possible they were made in his dorm common area.

http://www.studentprograms.vt.edu/vtour/harper.php

Jihad Recruitment and Terror Process:
1. Find mentally unstable local or committed jihadist [check]
2. Assume an Islamic name [maybe Ismail/Ishamel]
3. Plan event in advance [check]
4. Kill as many innocent civilians as possible [check]
4a. Kill some Jews in the process [check]
5. Shave hair/body beforehand [check]
6. Prepare martyr video [check]
6a. Complain about Christians and Western decadence [check]
7. Kill/martyr self [check]

I agree, there’s no reason to question whether this guy is a jihadi.

faraway on April 19, 2007 at 10:45 AM

Say NOTHING ABOUT ALLAH [check]
Mimic Korean Revenge Films [check]
Be an outcast as long as anyone can remember [check]
NOT shout Allahuakbar by anyone’s testimory so far [check]
Compare yourself to Jesus [check]
Praise columbine killers [check]
In your manifesto ask “You wanna rape us John Mark Karrs?”
In your manifesto ask “You wanna rape us Debra Lavafes?”
etc. etc. etc.

Yeah, all Jihadi tell tale signs… (fart noise)

Look, I still want to know what Ax Ismael meant, and the haircut thing is odd, but this sort of wild speculation gives fuel to those that would attack us for grasping at straws which you and januarius continue to do.

Yes I understand that we’ve only seen snippets, and I have been on record as saying I don’t trust the authorities and the MSM to give us all the information honestly… But based on what we have seen, there’s very little to indicate true jihadi motivations. It seems like he sampled from a lot of pop culture, and he clearly was desperate for attention and this was his way of getting it.

Don’t let RightWinged know that you are speculating from facts that it could possibly be jihad related.

januarius on April 19, 2007 at 11:04 AM

januarius, you’r an ass. You don’t speculate from the facts, you pump tiny things up to support your wild speculation and push OBVIOUS LIES.

Hey genius, what happened to that post of Schlussel’s you were linking to yesterday, telling people to “eat crow”?

She posted a photo of a guy that looked NOTHING like Cho, insisted it was him simply because he was Korean and had a similar name and goes by Ismail… but he’s a teacher in Indonesia!!! The flickr photo was removed by the poster who was getting a lot of heat. The poster explained that it wasn’t Cho, but a friend of hers, and who he was.

It was there until at least midmorning. Now, gone from the main page!!!

I’ve been waiting for Schussel to correct the record and issue an apology. NOTHING. I’ve waiting for your to do the same. NOTHING! I even just went back to the permalink and she’s removed the content of the post, saying only:

Eldarossell posted a note that this is not the guy, so I’m removing it.

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2007/04/is_this_ismail.html#comments

Is that a correction or apology? Sneakily removing it completely from the main page and for anyone who finds it via permalink, just tossing up a line like “eh, no big deal”.

Januarius, you need to shut up, seriously. You’re giving everyone a bad name here. As I said, how can we bash HuffPo commenters when they wish death on Tony Snow and Dick Cheney, etc. when you and a couple of your pals are making us look stupid over here?

januarius on April 19, 2007 at 5:27 PM

For the better part of two days you have entertained us with your thoughts about South Korean society and its anti-Americanism and possible tie to this killer. You defended your position mightily.
But when the dreaded MSM suggests that American society is somehow responsible you profess shock and outrage.

Double standard. Hypocritical etc. Get it?

Promoting this self-aggrandizing mental sickness will only encourage more.

Erase his name from history.

Sick scum deserve oblivion.

I have no idea what your comment has to do with my post above. The analogy makes no sense.

Also, the classrooms on the second floor were recently renovated and the way they are laid out after that renovation means that the students were basically trapped by one another and I think the desks they sat at. Even if they wanted to rush him, they would not have been able to. Cho chose the 2nd floor because most of the people on the 3rd floor exit through that side door after going down those stairs which happen to be right next to the Dean’s office. (Keep in mind that this is the Dean of the College of Engineering, not all of VT). He had that side door chained up which resulted in people pooling up in that little stairwell which only contains 6 or 7 stairs; 4 or 5 people would have little room if they were all in there at once. If it weren’t for SWAT showing as up quickly as they had and he not being given the time he needed, he would not have needed to go to the 3rd floor.

The liberal MSM has quickly followed suit. The sick implication is that somehow the victim’s society made Cho Seung-hui do it.
januarius on April 19, 2007 at 4:52 PM

Yet (per your many posts) you have no qualms blaming South Korean society for creating a mindset that made his act possible.

?? curious double standard isn’t it?

I’m not one that says it is always the parents fault either…hell knows my brother could easily be a cho and he had a great upbringing. But I did find that step father of the columbine student interesting in his talk with fox since he saw the evidence that we did not.

We all knew from the very start they will go for the gun control angle.

That story about the classmates all shouting “Go back to China” does not ring true. It just doesn’t. Fairfax County has a very “progressive” school system with many different races and ethnic groups. Teachers would not put up with that for a second. (In fact, I can’t picture any teacher anywhere in America putting up with it.)

I do recall, though, when in Daegu, Korea with the EPIK program (Korea’s version of JET) a Korean student who had a American soldier as a father and whose mother was Korean. The father had left Korea long before. Every time the kid would open his mouth, other Korean classmates would shout “APRI-KAN” (the Korean pronunciation for African). This was tolerated by the Korean teacher until I complained. Liberals need to get some perspective that Americans are not racists, but most other countries have notions of racial and ethnic superiority.

Cho Seung-hui is NOT a victim; he is the victimizer who brutally and cruelly murdered 32 students in cold blood.

Any MSM outlet that starts running with the Cho Seung-hui as a racial victim angle needs to bombarded with complaints.

http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/04/19/157298.aspx