New VTech thread: Victim’s roommate debunks the jilted lover theory; Update: Roommates say he stalked classmates, had imaginary girlfriend; Update: “Ismail Ak”? “Ismale Ax”?
posted at 7:19 pm on April 17, 2007 by Allahpundit
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The last thread was unwieldy with updates so direct your comments here henceforth. The media’s been speculating for the past two days about a relationship of some sort between Cho and the first victim, Emily Hilscher, but someone already sort of debunked it on Facebook this afternoon (scroll down after you click) and now Hilscher’s best friend, who’d be in a position to know, says it’s nonsense.
They were roommates and best friends and they were planning to meet in their dorm room Monday morning to go to chemistry class together. Emily Hilscher got there first and was killed. Heather Haugh arrived minutes later and became a key figure in the chaos unfolding on the Virginia Tech campus…
In an interview with The Times, Haugh said she knew of no connection between the killer and her roommate, or any reason why Cho Seung-Hui would have launched his deadly rampage on the fourth floor of West Ambler Johnston Hall.
“I’ve never seen him,” she said. “I don’t know his name. Emily didn’t know him, as far as I know.”
Haugh said that speculation that the killing spree was triggered by a domestic dispute likely stemmed from the fact that Hilscher’s boyfriend [Karl Thornhill] was an avid gun user. She said that when she was first questioned by police, “they asked if her boyfriend had a gun or something.”
I guess that explains who the other “person of interest” was. It’s a completely understandable assumption: a woman had been shot to death and her love interest was known to have a gun fetish, so they busied themselves with him while Cho wandered off. What an awful coincidence.
Plenty more updates to come, I’m sure, but in the meantime chew on this:
Haugh said she and Hilscher typically spent Sunday nights with their boyfriends, but met at their dorm on Monday morning to head to their 9 a.m. chemistry class. Hilscher typically arrived shortly after 7 a.m., while Haugh tended to make it back an hour or so later…
“Maybe he followed her up,” Haugh said, noting that Hilscher would have been arriving at the dorm around the time that Cho is believed to have entered the building.
Was Hilscher a target of opportunity, whom this lunatic seized on when he was out for a stroll looking for someone to kill? Or was he stalking her from afar? It’s got to be the latter, right?
Update: Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, whose pet issue has been gun control since her husband was shot to death in the LIRR massacre, is striking while the iron is hot with the Anti-Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device Act of 2007. Minor footnote: not only is there no evidence that Cho used a large-capacity magazine, there’s actually good reason to believe he didn’t.
Oh, and it turns out he did not use
Update: CNN’s airing an amazing interview on Paula Zahn’s show right now with Cho’s two roommates. The details aren’t online yet, but here’s the gist: he stalked three girls on the floor they lived on, including via instant messages he signed with a question mark; he once told his roommates that when he looked in one girl’s eyes he saw “promiscuity,” shortly after which they sent him to a counseling center on campus for a few nights; then, at some point after he was released, they went out drinking and he opened up to them, telling them he had an imaginary supermodel girlfriend … who called him “Spanky,” and whom he called “Jelly.” Oh, and he also liked to listen to “Shine” by Collective Soul over and over and over.
But other than that, he was completely normal.
Update: Caution urged on gun-control legislation by … Harry Reid?
Update: Another timeline mystery. We were told earlier today that the first shootings happened at around 7:15, whereupon Cho returned to his room to prepare for the assault on Norris Hall. And yet:
Mr. Cho’s room in Harper Hall is located one building away from West Ambler Johnston Hall, the dormitory building where the first shooting occurred about 7:15 a.m. At about 8 a.m., Mr. Aust returned to the room from a class. His roommate was gone, but Mr. Aust noticed something strange on his desk, a battery-powered screwdriver. It was a small thing, but it was one more mystery among many for Mr. Cho’s roommate.
Maybe Cho went to his permanent home, in Centreville, instead? Update: A quick check of Yahoo Maps reveals that Centreville’s on the other side of the state. So much for that theory.
Update: MSNBC has information on 27 of the 32 victims.
Update: Still a reach, but this Freeper’s theory of what “Ismail Ax/Ak” might mean is interesting.
Update: Lots of little scoops in tomorrow’s page one WaPo profile of Cho. How on earth was this time bomb allowed to go on ticking for so long?
Cho (whose full name is pronounced joh sung-wee) appears first to have alarmed the noted Virginia Tech poet Nikki Giovanni in a creative writing class in fall 2005, Giovanni said.
Cho took pictures of fellow students during class and wrote about death, she said in an interview. “Kids write about murder and suicide all the time. But there was something that made all of us pay attention closely. None of us were comfortable with that,” she said.
The students once recited their poems in class. “It was like, ‘What are you trying to say here?’ It was more sinister,” she said.
Days later, seven of Giovanni’s 70 or so students showed up for a class. She asked them why the others didn’t show up and was told that they were afraid of Cho.
“Once I realized my class was scared, I knew I had to do something,” she said.
She approached Cho and told him that he needed to change the type of poems he was writing or drop her class. Giovanni said Cho declined to leave and said, “You can’t make me.”
Meanwhile, in another English class:
“He would keep his headphones on a lot,” she said. “I remember one instance where the teacher had addressed a question to him and he really just stared off into space. He didn’t even recall acknowledging that she was talking to him. We were like, ‘What are you doing?’ The teacher said, ‘Will you please see me after class?’ and he still didn’t even acknowledge her. It was an awkward silence, and then she went back to lecturing.”
His poetry tutor was so frightened of him, she had her assistant eavesdrop on the lessons so that she could call security in case the tutor started to feel threatened and uttered a code word the two of them had agreed upon beforehand.
WaPo says two notes were found in Cho’s room but neither was a suicide note, strictly speaking; they were “manifestos” about the people he hated and who had wronged him, etc. The Post also provides a date on the purchase of the .22: February 9, more than a month before he bought the Glock. Cops had suspected he’d bought the .22 this past weekend, but now it looks like he was planning something for much longer. Oh, and as Bob Owens suspected, it turns out he didn’t use high-capacity (i.e., 30+ round) magazines. Cops say it was 15 for the Glock and 10 for the Walther.
But the most provocative tidbit? WaPo spells the writing on his arm as “Ismale Ax,” not “Ismail Ax.” I think we might have been on a wild goose chase with the other spelling.
Update: Most media outlets are still spelling it “Ismail Ax.”
Update: Here’s an article about what the roommates said on CNN, including the imaginary girlfriend named “Jelly.”
Update: An eyewitness describes the scene in one of the classrooms.
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Tommy1- Don’t you think this is too much a coincidence?
1) The Assassins being a branch of Ismaili Shiism and it being written on the assassin Cho Seung-hui’s arm.
2) JI’s new assassin strategy (JI being the Asian branch of Al Qaeda): https://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2007/04/17/200704170036.asp
3) The Saudi student (who just happens to be there, extremely suspicious) who films the assassinations at Norris Hall being related to one of the most prominent terrorist families in Palestine. FBI: I would be all over this guy checking his class schedule to see if it makes sense that he were just outside Norris Hall at that particular time.
Maybe Cho had a schedule to begin firing at a particular time in Norris, hence his two hour delay?
januarius on April 17, 2007 at 10:26 PM
The most ridiculous editorial comment that I saw conflated the murders at VT with male pattern baldness, saying that society tolerates both as aspects of maleness. From my local Gannett dogscoop:
http://lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070417/OPINION/704170323/1015/OPINION01
chsw
chsw on April 17, 2007 at 10:28 PM
This is symptomatic of one of the bigger tragedies in this, that the media and liberals immediately moved into Gun Grab mode, which immediately turned this event political, which is unfair to those effected. I echo Cipher in that I agree that the fact that this has become political so quickly is horrid, but we have no choice, the left has set the table in this regard, and we are obligated to respond. Political decency is a casualty here too.
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 10:34 PM
Well, he had chains to lock down the doors to keep people from escaping. He wanted them boxed in. Perhaps the timing was necessary to make sure all students were inside the classrooms, none wandering the halls.
naliaka on April 17, 2007 at 10:37 PM
And, Cipher, you’re right, we should be concerned about copycats, the shooting at my school was a copycat.
I’ve said it repeatedly, and I’ll say it again. Find out about your or your student’s school policy, and if its actively trained and drilled for this type of crisis. I doubt it is. We teach fire drills and even tornado drills, but we have no attack drills.
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 10:39 PM
januarius on April 17, 2007 at 9:53 PM
In fact, what are the odds, really? The strategic blogs and sites have been loaded for a long time with what’s evolving with the war – the assymetrical war of citizens comprising the front line – that it wouldn’t surprise me in the least. One of the goals is to recruit “clean” people, who are able to dodge the “profiling.” Wahhabism is a Saudi export product. To have such a grouping of factors puts up plenty of red flags.
naliaka on April 17, 2007 at 10:44 PM
I wondered the same thing about the chains. Perhaps he had another use for them?
If his goal was to wait for everyone to get into the classrooms in Norris and out of the halls, why the bomb threat that accomplishes the exact opposite? Why would you, the killer, count on the students being allowed to return to class after your bomb threat when you know that the university is also investigating a double murder and the perp (being yourself) is still roaming free? I know the university may well have screwed up in not proceeding to “lock down,” but would Cho have planned on their mistakes in the design of his killing spree?
shuzilla on April 17, 2007 at 10:51 PM
And the most stupid comment in the link provided goes to acticcat13
F15Mech on April 17, 2007 at 10:53 PM
>had imaginary girlfriend
Um…duh?
Doghouse on April 17, 2007 at 10:55 PM
Naliaka- Do you remember how JI did the Bali bombing? It was extremely well-coordinated. If I remember correctly, they had one small bomb go off in the restaurant, which led to panic towards the front outside of the restaurant, where a much larger and more deadly bomb went off.
It reminds me of how they have a minor (relatively speaking) incident in the dorm that draws all of the security and police at Tech, then at a scheduled time (right when the Saudi student takes video) the far more deadly attack occurs with students chained inside the building.
Then we have JI’s new assassination strategy, coupled with Cho Seung-hui’s mark “Ismail’s Ax” on his arm. I really wonder if he were a JI agent. Islam is in Korea and extremists do target troubled youth for recruitment: http://www.islamkorea.com/english/
It will be really interesting to see what he wrote about religion on his suicide letter.
januarius on April 17, 2007 at 10:58 PM
>conflated the murders at VT with male pattern baldness
Uh, oh. I’m losing my hair…and I carry a gun!!!
Doghouse on April 17, 2007 at 10:59 PM
>too many innocent people get killed everyday, something has got to change.
If more people had the good sense to carry a gun, always and everywhere, fewer innocent people would get killed, because more bad people would be getting killed.
Doghouse on April 17, 2007 at 11:01 PM
You also have the “person of interest” the police keep mentioning…
TheBigOldDog on April 17, 2007 at 11:07 PM
And this misogynistic idea of seeing promiscuity in the eyes of woman…
TheBigOldDog on April 17, 2007 at 11:11 PM
I signed up for CCW certification class today, begins 4/24. I don’t expect any copy-cats barging in on that classroom.
Buck Turgidson on April 17, 2007 at 11:33 PM
Curiouser and curiouser…
aero on April 17, 2007 at 11:35 PM
Januarius, Jan…
I’m basing my opinions on my experience with school shootings, namely the one at my school. The student was an outcast and had a history of erratic behavior, just like this kid and many others that go on shooting sprees, including the one at my school.
That view has thus far been confirmed by police and news sources. The only thing you have is this Ismail’s Ax thing, and your own experience with Korea. I’m not say you’re wrong, but the idea that this is some product of anti-Americanism or Islam is a major stretch. Ismail’s Ax could be lotsa things, and there have been no indications that Islam or Korean nationalism/supremacy were motivators, but time will tell. Until then its wild speculation.
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 11:35 PM
Here is a Wikipedia article on JI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jemaah_Islamiyah
The paragraph about their formation of an assassin squad is interesting, along with Cho Seung-hui’s mark on his arm.
JI only operates in Southeast Asia, a branch of Al Qaeda. I wonder if Al Qaeda, which has sleeper cells in the U.S., will move towards this strategy, and if the taser incident at UCLA (also filmed by cellphone) was a test of security measures on college campuses.
It will be interesting to see what links if any Cho had to Islam and terrorism. When will they release his suicide letter that castigated “religion” (perhaps the Christian Faith)?
januarius on April 17, 2007 at 11:37 PM
The only thing I have to add speaks to the charges of negligence in not locking down the campus. Remember when a plane hit the WTC? No one concluded that jihadis were hijacking commercial airliners and using them as missiles until the second one hit. Before that, nobody knew what was about to happen.
Buck Turgidson on April 17, 2007 at 11:40 PM
Anybody see “Anatomy of a Massacre” on CBS tonight?
Katie Couric did her best to appear as if she gave even the slightest damn about the students or their families. I’m sure she couldn’t get her mind off of how to turn this tragedy into an emmy.
Seriously, the special was nothing more than a music video of angst.
There was nothing in the special I hadn’t already heard, and plenty I had heard right here at HotAir was NOT in the special. It could not have been more obvious that someone at CBS said, “Let’s focus on the raw human feeling of loss and despair–leave the information peddling to the internet.” I found the show offensive in the way that it showcased the aftermath of the tragedy. It was like a peep show of emotional horror.
Oh, and let’s not forget the clip where Couric is given an impromptu interview by George and Mrs. Bush. She couldn’t help but ask if lax gun laws are to blame. Bush politely introduced her to the back of his hand. What a disgusting person she must be…
unamused on April 17, 2007 at 11:43 PM
Actually she just lives in Canada but you know how those girls are… no morals.
(Put the link in there for those who have no clue of American pop culture)
ScottMcC on April 17, 2007 at 11:49 PM
Really? The ol’ boy grew a pair for a minute did he?! I’ll be interested to see that… AP, will you be posting this?
RightWinged on April 17, 2007 at 11:51 PM
About that Cooper story that may be the source of the “Ismail Ax” reference: Here’s (pdf) a description of English courses from the VT website. English 2525: Survey of American Literature I mentions Cooper by name.
dorkafork on April 17, 2007 at 11:53 PM
This is a semi-interesting piece, describing what Cho’s dorm is like
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1611548,00.html
Although the sensationalism of this paragraph annoys me:
Somewhere Geraldo is thinking of ways to work that in to his next report… Geez
RightWinged on April 17, 2007 at 11:56 PM
You don’t find it at all unusual to find a Korean guy with a Koranic refence written on his arm after a methodical massacre that he’d perpetrated? It’s not wild speculation to the global terrorist analysts. The MSM hasn’t done a very good job of informing the American public as to what’s been brewing out there.
Are you aware of the internet sites for the past at least five years that have been urging anyone so inclined to jihad with the largest SUV out there to be used to run over people? Never have seen that happen on a college campus by a college student … oh wait!
Yes, we’ll wait and see, it’s specualtion, but in this day and age, not “wild.”
naliaka on April 18, 2007 at 12:08 AM
Maybe not for terrorism analysts, but you seem pretty eager to dismiss my own analysis out of hand. Again I could be wrong. I’m going by what I know, comparing my own experience with my own outside learning about these incidents and police and press reports.
Bad Candy on April 18, 2007 at 12:18 AM
I’ve been nothing if not the one telling everyone to be cautious about jumping to Islam conclusions (despite Ismail raising some serious red flags), but I have to take issue with one thing you just said there Bad Candy:
You did hear about this, no?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-070417vtech-shootings,0,1137509.story?coll=chi-homepagepromo440-fea
Why would a random college kid care about the debauchery of college kids? Did the “richness” of his fellow students only get to him in his senior year? Did it take 4 years to build in him? Islam, it is my understanding, doesn’t allow for being “rich”… someone actually taught me about that in another thread some time ago when I wondered why the Muslim world is still centuries behind the rest of the world. Also, aren’t the terrorists constantly bashing our way of life…. our “debauchery” if you will?
Again I have probably been the most cautious person here about the whole potential Islam connection thing… but I just had to point out that there are other things that may or may not point that way. We also know that Islamists seek out disaffected youth. And this thing gets fisherier as we learn that he had nothing to do with the first girl he killed. That was the original thing that made everyone think the kid was distraught over losing his girlfriend and that has screwed up everyone’s thinking (myself included) through this whole thing. It’s tough after 24 hours of “girlfriend!” being hammered in to our heads to TOTALLY remove that nonexistent aspect.
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 12:19 AM
>Actually she just lives in Canada
Hahaha!!!
Or maybe it’s Oklahoma.
She was gonna fly out for the shooting but she couldn’t cause she’s doing some modeling right now.
Doghouse on April 18, 2007 at 12:33 AM
Its not uncommon for shooters to view their victims in an amoral blanket negative, or to believe you are of a higher moral, or aspire to be. I seem to remember that one of the Columbine students wore a shirt that said “Natural Selection”, that oughta show he viewed himself superior, Elizabeth Bush had interest in becoming a nun. Mitchell Johnson was considering becoming a minister after his release, and was active in his church beforehand, and often bullied and claimed he was a gangbanger before he went off. I’m sure there are more but those are a few off the top of my head.
Bad Candy on April 18, 2007 at 12:57 AM
I’d say there is rather a difference between “an avid gun user” and having “a gun fetish,” doncha think?
Claire on April 18, 2007 at 12:59 AM
Interesting theory from that Freeper. Its possible that the note was that. Many people believe that drugs are the igniter for shootings.
Bad Candy on April 18, 2007 at 1:03 AM
What gets ne the most about this is no one tried to fight back. Except for a few doors barred, no one did anything. (Jump out of windows) Why didn’t someone, anyone, in a room where he was killing everybody, why didn’t someone rush him? If they would have attacked him, the total loss of life could have been alot less.
Because we are raising a generation of cowards. They have been taught to follow instructions, obey authority, and NOT HIT BACK! In case of trouble, stay in your room and wait for the cops. Competition is outlawed, strategic and tactical thinking on one’s feet is unheard of, let alone taught. Natural aggression is stifled, boys aren’t taught to defend girls, and heroes have to be cartoon figures. Instead they are taught that “no one has the right to make you feel that way”, and if confronted by a bad guy, “Just do what he says, it’s not worth risking your life for”
Isn’t it time we taught our kids that living free doesn’t mean living safe? That living free means always being ready to fight for your life? That the police, no matter what they say, can’t protect you from crime, you have to do that yourself. The police’s job starts when the crime occurs.
I am truly worried about this nation in the next couple of generations.
Side note: I don’t comment often, so I want to thank all the HA staff for persueing all the angles as this unfolds. This is has turned into a great source for the most complete news. Great job guys
Chuck on April 18, 2007 at 1:03 AM
Look what Geraldo and Shep did to last night’s ratings:
The numbers overall were higher than normal for everyone because of the story, but FNC usually thoroughly destroys all CNN and MSNBC shows (only CNN and Fox individual shows broken down here this time)
In fact, a lot of times even Shep and Brit’s numbers surpass the best numbers CNN can put up for any show on a given night. But it’s almost always a guarantee that the top 3 shows in cable news are O’Reilly, H&C, and Greta.
Of course there could be other reasons why CNN pulled some serious numbers last night… maybe Fox News is still not a household name enough yet, or maybe because of the beating they take from the rest of the MSM the regular (not usual cable news viewers) folks don’t turn there for their news (actually, this is probably part of the problem).
But I’d be willing to bet that Shep and Geraldo drove a lot of people away… I had to flip to CNN a few times just because I couldn’t stand to listen to them any more. It was like the Shep & Geraldo show all fricken’ night (and all day today by the way… Megyn Kelly has made it slightly bearable, some of the time)
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 1:05 AM
>Shep
Where’s Shemp when you need him?
Doghouse on April 18, 2007 at 1:12 AM
This is horrible…
One of the victims had a website where he posted recordings of original songs. It really brings the guy, who most of us never knew, to life.
DaveS on April 18, 2007 at 1:18 AM
Most of his links aren’t working from his homepage, but I searched Yahoo and got his bio:
http://www.residenthippy.com/aboutme.htm
and more of his songs with a couple photos here
http://www.residenthippy.com/songs.htm
covering songs here
http://www.residenthippy.com/dan&matt.htm
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 1:28 AM
Here he is too
http://www.purevolume.com/residenthippy/shows
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 1:30 AM
And his myspace
http://www.myspace.com/residenthippy
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 1:30 AM
This is really sad, one of his friends posted yesterday:
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 1:31 AM
I suspect a lot of those that died yesterday have myspace pages with similar posts from friends
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 1:31 AM
Facebook, too.
Doghouse on April 18, 2007 at 1:34 AM
…that hurts to even read.
Bad Candy on April 18, 2007 at 1:35 AM
Because it wasn’t an episode of 24.
Jim Treacher on April 18, 2007 at 1:39 AM
Rick on April 18, 2007 at 1:40 AM
This appears to be the poor girl who was the first victim and has had to endure, in death, the misconception that she was this assclown’s girlfriend:
http://www.myspace.com/captivepixie
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 1:41 AM
Yeah, it’s rough.
Rick on April 18, 2007 at 1:41 AM
Another victim’s myspace page
http://www.myspace.com/kazinkilu
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 1:43 AM
From the article:
God…that shoulda been plenty of warning. The fact that 60+ students refused to show up because they were creeped out by this guy? Should have been telling, his aggro attitude toward his prof as well. There’s usually signs that there’s a problem that are missed, but nothing this egregious from all I know.
That said, I shouldn’t be surprised given that these things are often missed. Allah, I get your frustration with that question, I still think about it. You’ve done a very good job at keeping us informed.
Bad Candy on April 18, 2007 at 1:45 AM
I believe this is another
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=167170728
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 1:45 AM
Brian Bluhm was the name of that last one by the way. The one before was Ross Abdallah Alameddine.
Here’s (I think) Austin Cloyd:
http://www.myspace.com/rckmyworld
Here’s Matthew La Porte:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=37515162
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 1:50 AM
another, Mary Karen Read:
http://www.myspace.com/blueluver6
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 1:59 AM
and another one. Maxine Turner
http://www.myspace.com/super_sneaky_ninja
(I hope no one thinks I’m be exploitative by linking you to these… I’m just trying to provide a glimpse of these REAL people that were alive two days ago)
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 2:04 AM
It’s painful to read their profiles – all I can think of is that scumbag ending their lives in such a cowardly way.
Rick on April 18, 2007 at 2:15 AM
Rightwinged,
Keep them coming. It sucks to see, but needs to be IMO.
F15Mech on April 18, 2007 at 2:15 AM
Indeed. Seeing these people on myspace (especially if you check out there photos… I’m not a myspace person, but I have an account so I can view pictures for the purposes of things like this and for checking out photos of people I know who do use it. You need an account to view the photos (beyond what may be on the profile).
Anyway, it’s entirely different to see these people as they were, rather than just reading their names in the paper. I’m sure there are more that have myspace pages, but those ones were easy to find just using their real names.
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 2:17 AM
RedEye is very serious tonight… It’s odd however to hear Marsden ask what sets these types of psychos apart from the reset of us… given her stalking and false rape accusation past. I guess it could be worse, she could be calling the victims “silver spooners” and explain to us that if we can’t deal with it, then we can’t fight a war on terror (background: http://hotair.com/archives/2007/04/14/marsden-to-duke-kids-get-over-it/)
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 2:20 AM
This appears to be the RA shot in the first incident:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=10336168
Though it looks like he never did anything after creating that page (people are commenting on his one photo though), then there’s this one… Also 22 in Blacksburg, VA… Last login 4/16. The page is private and the photo is kind of small, but I’m pretty sure it’s the same guy. (No, not because all black people look the same to me, but the other information, plus the old account says he was bi, and this one gay. It’s almost a certainty that it’s him)
http://www.myspace.com/vtones
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 2:38 AM
This was the freaky speaker who turned things a little political today at the convocation…the baby elephant afraid of what will become of his grown-up ivory, aids babies in africa and then a reference to the bolder over a baby in Virginia appalachian and a few other-odd veiled weirdnesses..
Topsecretk9 on April 18, 2007 at 2:49 AM
Wow, this one is really sad. Lauren McCain
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=14903990
Lauren it appears was a VERY devout Christian. Here is a sample of comments from friends before they realized she was one of the victims (the “after” comments can be read at the page)
This one was posted 4 times
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 2:57 AM
ismale ax
looks like the ciphertext of a substitution cipher to me.
ganeshpuri89 on April 18, 2007 at 3:17 AM
I can’t help but notice that at least three of the most recent mass shootings (Appalachian law school, Trident Square in SLC, and now VT) in the U.S. were undertaken by foreign nationals, not American citizens. I totally oppose any further gun restrictions on U.S. citizens, but what about on foreign nationals here in the U.S.? Why not ban or restrict gun sales to them?
Cato on April 18, 2007 at 5:45 AM
While I think everyone should take a look at all those myspace pages I dug up above all else, I have to mention this before I crash…
You all remember that Muslim speaker at yesterday’s VT event? Well it seems little buddy helped get some program set up a few years ago where Saudis came to VT to study… and to accommodate, classes were separated by gender. As the author of this first post puts it
http://environmentalrepublican.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_archive.html
More
http://clarityandresolve.com/archives/2005/08/
http://www.rollingdoughnut.com/2005/08/we_painted_our_office_orange_a.html
Here Riad attempts to give the PC version of Islam (though there could be more meat in there, I mainly skimmed it, because it was the PC fluff version of Islam we hear in the MSM)
http://www.crescentlife.com/family%20matters/death_and_dying.htm
Here he explains away “jihad”. (More fluff)
http://www.roanoke.com/columnists/angleberger/wb/82776
He was also a key spokesperson on a “controversy”, in which a burning Koran was found at a local mosque… CAIR was there and prepared to be outraged… sadly it turned out that a Muslim had left the burned book because he didn’t know of the proper way to dispose of it after it had been burned in a house fire. I have no evidence that he’s tied to CAIR in any way, but this story just happens to come up most when you search for his name.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45134
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 6:59 AM
When are they going to release these manifestos against “religion” (I suspect the Christian Faith) and “debauchery”?
What else could “Ismail Ax” mean beside the branch of assassins?
Finally, these mosques go very much after kids who are weird or don’t fit in. And Islam can be a very attractive religion because of its community aspect for those who feel they are ostracized by society because they have been rejected or don’t fit in (i.e. nutty).
I’m wondering if there is a large terrorist cell operating at Virginia Tech. A large isolated college town like Blacksburg would be an ideal location. You have liberal professors and administration who think Islam is a persecuted religion; you have a number of potential recruits; you have easy access to America through student visas.
I think the weirdest aspect is that Saudi student (why are we still letting in Saudis to study here?) who just happened to be outside of Norris at that very time (was he late to class?) during the shooting–and he just happened to record it. He grew up in Saudi Arabia according to CNN and he is from a prominent Palestianian terrorism family.
Anyone recall also the burned Koran incident at Blacksburg a few years ago? I think they have been testing security awareness and how much they can plan without scrutiny.
januarius on April 18, 2007 at 7:15 AM
Interesting. From an AP article:
What was “his own religion?” Almost all Koreans in the U.S. are Christian, but from the description of the note, it appears his religion was not. What were his negative references to Christianity?
What is “Ismail Ax?”
januarius on April 18, 2007 at 7:44 AM
I heard it reported yesterday that he was raised Christian. I mean, that doesn’t mean he was in church all the time. I know plenty of Catholics who call themselves Catholic because that’s what they were told from the day they were born and every Easter and Christmas when they showed up to church. But anyway, I heard them mention his parents being Christians in a totally unrelated context to the Ismail Ax thing, which if you check out AP’s updates, now appears to be Ismale Ax.
Now I really do have to crash.
And again, try not to go out on a limb to far januarius… I’m just looking out for all of us. We mock the HuffPo commenters when they blame Rove for everything or wish death upon Tony Snow… We don’t want them mocking us for grasping at straws to paint this kid as a Muslim. He was clearly nuts, though I think it’s 50/50 that there might be some sort of Islamic references in his notes, that certainly doesn’t seem to be the motivator for him as yet (see his roommates comments about how he’s been nuts for a while, his imaginary girlfriend Jelly who called him Spanky, his repeatedly listening to one Collective Soul song, his staring at the wall, etc. etc. Wild speculation about his religion at this point is worse than the speculation that the first person killed was an ex-girlfriend.
RightWinged on April 18, 2007 at 7:54 AM
This story is two days old and already I’m sick of it.
There are over 30 families and friends and entire college affected by this. Their loved ones have been slaughtered and it is spread all over the world. And to add insult to injury, these people can’t even mourn in private.
The media needs to leave these people alone.
csdeven on April 18, 2007 at 8:39 AM
Take a look at the outrageous anti-American reactions in Korea to the shooting of Americans today at http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/. Here are just several sick responses:
They are the victims, the center of the tragedy, and it is Americans’ fault!
How about this gem? They are now mad at us!
And we are to blame because we have access to guns. We forced the Korean to embarrass Korea because of our gun laws!
Sick society, which is why so many want to come to America. Don’t even think about buying Korean. And compare Korea’s response to America when the two GI’s accidentally ran over two Koreans in 2002 at http://www.usinkorea.org
januarius on April 18, 2007 at 9:00 AM
I think after 30+ posts in two threads by you that everyone gets (a) you don’t like Koreans and (b) you are convinced there is some kind of AQ-South Korean television connection
Bradky on April 18, 2007 at 9:03 AM
“Gun Free Zones” — like Vtech are where mass murder rampages happen, according to John Lott and William Landes in a 2000 study, Multiple Victim Public Shootings
I’ve been trying to remember if there has ever been a mass murder ramapge like what happened Vtech at (1) gun range, (2) a police station, or (3) a gun show, or any other places where people have guns and ammunition available.
And, try as I have, the only incident I can think of is a hunting incident in Wisconsin 2 years ago where a confrontaton between a hunter and a group of other hunters over permission to hunt on the property ended up in seven people being killed. Other than this one incident, I can’t remember anything similar.
From the conclusion of Lott’s and Landes’ study:
If anybody is looking for objective evidence when confronting a gun grabber’s emotional demand for more gun control laws post-VTech, this 46 report has the objective evidence to prove them wrong.
georgej on April 18, 2007 at 9:04 AM
Oops. Sorry about the word wrapping.
georgej on April 18, 2007 at 9:04 AM
I was cynical yesterday.
TODAY I AM JUST PISSED.
Can these poor souls not be left to mourn this terrible shock?
No, gotta make it SeNsAtIoNaL!
I unplugged my cable long ago and would advise you all to do the same. If you can’t see how sucked in you are>>>you are OFFICIALLY SUCKED IN.
I’m not a television junkie.
I don’t take PROZAC.
COINCIDENCE????
seejanemom on April 18, 2007 at 9:06 AM
I am NOT a gun control supporter. I believe the second amendment means the public should be allowed to own guns. Period.
BUT, the public that either supports tougher gun limits, or which holds no firm opinion either way is not going to be impressed with the knowledge that the Glock was designed to hold 14 or 15 rounds without any special adaptation. They will view that design as one big mag extender.
The question is, would a magazine and gun design limiting mags to 6 or 7 rounds have slowed him down, or given an opportunity for students to jump him (we still don’t really know if any tried and died for their efforts)?
I don’t know the answer. I think if he had any time to practice firing and replacing magazines it probably would not have mattered. And, today’s news reports strongly suggest he planned this when he bought the Glock one month earlier. Did he have multiple mags, or did he need to reload manually? Did he reload either/both weapons once he began killing students in classrooms?
doufree on April 18, 2007 at 9:11 AM
After your 30+ responses to my posts, I think everyone gets you want no criticism of South Korean anti-American attitudes. But what I posted IS relevant: South Korea’s general anti-American reaction (not everyone in the country of course but a large segment of the population) to the killer’s shooting of students. It is right here: http://www.koreaherald.co.kr
In any case, why are you so defensive on the issue?
This following report though is really sad. Cho’s parents both attempted suicide after hearing the news:
https://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2007/04/18/200704180092.asp
januarius on April 18, 2007 at 9:13 AM
Not even double digits. Your conspiracy ramblings are getting tiresome. Feel like I’m reading the View.
Bradky on April 18, 2007 at 9:16 AM
You way you emotionally argue, it does feel like you watch The View often.
How does reporting South Korean anti-American attitudes at http://www.koreaherad.co.kr have anything to do with “conspiracy theories?” No one ever stated except you there is some type of absurd South Korean-Al Qaeda connection. However, it could very well be that Cho was Muslim. Who knows? We do know he wrote Ismail Ax on his arm and he had a large rant about “religion” and “debauchery.” This is called speculation.
You seem awfully defensive about criticism of South Korea. However, their first gut reaction to worry about racism against Koreans is offensive to America and absurd considering their reaction to the GI’s accidental killing of two Korean schoolchildren in 2002. We would never behave the way they did as a society. To refresh your memory: http://www.usinkorea.org/1st/TRAGEDY/index.html
Compare our civilized response to this shooting with Korea’s response to the tank incident before responding.
januarius on April 18, 2007 at 9:28 AM
Didn’t proofread:
YouThe way you emotionally argue, it does feel like you watch The View often.januarius on April 18, 2007 at 9:29 AM
I recall reading a witness interview where the student described the scene in Norris Hall with phrases like “bloody, with shell casings and clips everywhere”.
I’ve tried to find the quote but can’t seem to find it. Anyone else recall this? If so, it would indicate he had multiple magazines.
It’s impossible to manually load cartridges into a magazine with one hand, and using both hands would still be fairly slow even for an experienced loader. It’s most likely he had a backpack full of loaded magazines to use when needed. Easier, faster and would explain empty magazines on the floor.
Still doesn’t settle the high-capacity or 10 round debate. Sometime in the future that info will probably come out. Will it really make a difference once we know? Even if they only held 5 rounds, some sicko would just bring more magazines.
BacaDog on April 18, 2007 at 9:32 AM
Okay Rosie google yourself. YOU are the person who began with the assumption he was influenced by SK tv, then when it became clear he had been here since ten years old, began musing about the writing on his arm and some writings about religion. Mix that in with self indignation about how the Korean press responded to the incident. What is next? Your Ouiji board channels Osama to make another nebulous connection?
Speculation on your part? Absolutely baseless speculation? Absolutely.
Bradky on April 18, 2007 at 9:34 AM
What about any of these posts is outrageous or anti-American? They may be anti-gun, but you can hardly equate that to be anti-American. No one says anything negative about America other than to criticize our gun laws; you may disagree, but you can’t conclude that it is an attack on America.
If an American went on a shooting rampage in Korea I would probably have similar feelings as the second commenter…why is the fact he is American important? Why should American society be held to account for one lunatic’s actions? It’s not outrageous, it’s not anti-American, and it makes perfect sense considering the situation.
We all get it. You lived in Korea, there is anti-American sentiment in Korea, there is AQ presence in Korea. I believe you, thanks for making us aware. Your constant comments and ridiculous assumptions are not helping your case; they are annoying and make you sound like a demagogue obsessed with hating Korea. Don’t exploit this tragedy to distribute your anti-Korean propaganda.
JaHerer22 on April 18, 2007 at 9:46 AM
then when it became clear he had been here since ten years old, began musing about the writing on his arm and some writings about religion. Mix that in with self indignation about how the Korean press responded to the incident. What is next? Your Ouiji board channels Osama to make another nebulous connection?
Speculation on your part? Absolutely baseless speculation? Absolutely.
Bradky on April 18, 2007 at 9:34 AM
Speak for yourself about the Ouiji board.
You don’t seem to understand the difference between speculation and conspiracy theories (i.e. believing Bush lied, Bush destroyed the Twin Towers for oil, etc. AFTER we know all the facts). Speculation BEFORE we know the facts is healthy in a democratic society.
We do know:
1) He had “Ismail Ax” on his arm, which could be a reference to the historic Assassins branch of Shii Islam.
2) We do know that JI, a branch of Al Qaeda, has just endorsed this Assassin approach. https://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2007/04/17/200704170036.asp
3) We do know that Saudi student who is related to a prominent terrorist family just happened to be outside of Norris Hall in the middle of the class schedule and just happened to record the gunshots on his cellphone. That is weird. Why was he not in class at that time, and if he didn’t have class why was he next to Norris Hall? You are generally only on campus if you are heading toward your own class (i.e. to a 9:00 class, 10:00 class, etc.)
In a post 9/11 world this kind of vigilant speculation is healthy and wise. . .unlike conspiracy theories on your side of the fence that Rosie espouses.
januarius on April 18, 2007 at 9:55 AM
In a post 9/11 world this kind of vigilant speculation is
healthy and wise. . .unlike conspiracy theories on your side of the fence that Rosie espousesbest left to the professionals in our military and intelligence agencies equipped to accurately analyze these things.Fixed it for you.
Bradky on April 18, 2007 at 10:01 AM
It wasn’t a stretch for Cho to go from “Ismail Ak” to “Ismale Ax.” The Freeper who made this hypothesis pointed out that Cho did this with other names as well. Anyway, a check on Cho’s computer should answer a lot of questions.
pjcomix on April 18, 2007 at 10:05 AM
Honestly sounds like a jilted ‘wannabe’ lover to me more than anything. My guess is Emily talked to Cho a time or two on the way to class, he became totally enamored, decided to approach her, got turned down, and things spiraled from there.
buddyellis on April 18, 2007 at 10:05 AM
It looks more to me like this was a premeditated assault.
There’s nothing to tie Emily Hilscher to the shooter, who had no relationships with anybody. Emily and her room-mate spent Sunday night with their boyfriends and were going to meet in their room to go to Chem class. Emily always got home early first. Emily’s close girlfriend says she didn’t know the shooter.
She came up on the vator with two other guys by coincidence. It was their bad luck that the shooter was looking for victims on their floor when the vator door opened and presented him three. He shot two of them, but not the third.
It was two hours before the shooter began his second round of shootings. He had to dress, gather his equipment, walk over to the academic buildings. Some of the victims said that he walked around a bit first, peering into classrooms. That cuts down that two hours to 90 minutes or less of free time.
The cops say his note was eight typewritten pages. I don’t think a college kid can produce eight typed pages in 90 minutes. Therefore, this note was written before the first shooting, which infers that all of this carnage was premeditated, not the product of a jilted admirer.
Tantor on April 18, 2007 at 10:06 AM
I know. No American should have speculated why dozens of Saudis were living in Florida or Virginia, taking flight lessons, and overstaying their visas. We should take our soma pills and not ask any questions, blindly trusting professionals to take care of us.
No one should speculate why this attack was extraordinarily well coordinated, why “Ismael Ax” is written on Cho’s arm, why a Saudi is not in class but on campus filming the incident, etc.
Bradky- This above naivite is the liberal way but has never been the traditional American way.
januarius on April 18, 2007 at 10:14 AM
I have a theory about conspiracy theories: the sheer randomness of some horrible events makes us feel vulnerable; if there is a larger, organized, rational (in the sense of having some logic, however evil) context and driving force, that makes us feel better. That we can deal with.
I was listening to some of the coverage and how this kid had been noticed by students and faculty as being disturbed and sinister. It’s been a long time since I matriculated, but honestly, weren’t there lots of kids like this in your university–ones who just creeped you out? No point to this, just an observation. Sad, sad, sad.
honora on April 18, 2007 at 10:22 AM
Some people like Cho manage to be evil and deranged all by themselves without any help from the koran. He was a sick headcase to the extreme. I’m sorry to say there’s more like him walking around.
Buck Turgidson on April 18, 2007 at 10:22 AM
Good points. Do you remember the song “The Loner” by Neil Young?
Bradky on April 18, 2007 at 10:31 AM
If he was forced to have a mental evaluation in Dec 2005 and was temporarily involuntarily committed, how was he able to buy a gun 5 weeks ago? Don’t they put these names in the background check database?
TheBigOldDog on April 18, 2007 at 10:31 AM
I just find it interesting that these victims that survived the shootings and carnage are so calm in describing it. I personally would be a basket case. I don’t think I could get through the telling without breaking down. But the ones I have seen seem like they are describing a movie instead of a personal experience.
Does anyone else find that strange? I know there is shock and all, but still…..
Rightwingsparkle on April 18, 2007 at 10:32 AM
best left to the professionals in our military and intelligence agencies equipped to accurately analyze these things.
Geez, who the hell are they? Judging by the past six years, our military and intelligence agencies couldn’t accurately analyze their way out of a paper bag. Screwed the pooch on 9/11, screwed the pooch on Iraq WMD, screwed the pooch on Iraqi stabilization… repeated pooch screws and yet nobody is held accountable. What have these clowns done right, exactly?
Lehuster on April 18, 2007 at 10:32 AM
They sent him to Access because they had the power to commit him! How did this guy get a gun?! Gurrrr! Why wasn’t this guy being closely watched?
TheBigOldDog on April 18, 2007 at 10:34 AM
Nothing in the file to prevent him from getting a gun! He was so sick they sent him to a special place with the power to commit yet they never put that info in his file so he could be prevented from buying a gun! Now I am angry!
TheBigOldDog on April 18, 2007 at 10:36 AM
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