Breaking: ABC News ID’s VT gunman as Cho Seung-Hui; Update: Killer’s warning may be a ‘Net hoax
posted at 9:27 am on April 17, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Just across. Looks like the bulletin board posting Bryan quoted last night was right on the money.
Seung Hui Cho, a permanent resident of the United States, a Korean national and a Virginia Tech student has been identified as the gunman in the shootings that left 33 people dead on the Virginia Tech campus Monday, ABC News has learned.
The student left a “disturbing note” before killing two people in a dorm room, returning to his own room to re-arm and entering a classroom building on the other side of campus to continue his rampage, sources said.
Cho’s identitiy has been confirmed with a positive fingerprint match on the guns used in the rampage and with immigration materials. It is believed that he was the shooter in both incidents yesterday. Sources say Cho was carrying a backpack that contained receipts for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol, sources said. Witnesses had also told authorities that the shooter was carrying a backpack. Sections of chain similar to those used to lock the main doors at Norris Hall, the site of the second shooting that left 31 dead, were found inside a Virginia Tech dormitory, sources confirmed to ABC News.
The university’s holding a press conference right now. Standby.
Update: The cops just confirmed his ID at the presser. He lived on campus at Harper Hall. Lab tests confirmed that one of the weapons was used in both shootings yesterday. WaPo had a hot tip about this early this morning, identifying the suspect as Korean, not Chinese as had previously been reported.
Update: They’re talking now about some of the heroes who helped slow Cho down during his rampage. Slublog sends along this story about Prof. Liviu Librescu, who held the classroom door shut while his students escaped through the windows. One fact it doesn’t mention: Librescu was a Holocaust survivor.
Update: Meanwhile, ABC still hasn’t retracted its alarmist post about high-capacity magazines.
Update: I still don’t understand how he managed to be so lethal while shooting randomly. 32 killed, 20+ wounded; how often does any sort of attack result in more dead than hurt? The cops did say that he lined some students up and executed them sequentially, but that’s strange too. He’s one guy, with (let’s assume) 10 guys in a line in front of him. After he shot the first two or three and the rest realized what was about to happen, wouldn’t they have rushed him?
A doctor interviewed this morning on CNN said the victims he’d treated had all been shot at least three times, so it could be that he came equipped with a huge volume of ammo and just kept spraying bullets. Although again, in that case, you’d expect more injured than killed. I wonder if we’re going to find out that he used an especially destructive form of ammo, hollow-tipped or something along those lines.
Update: Another thing. I haven’t read a single report yet of Cho saying anything during the shooting. In fact, a couple of people have noticed how calm and quiet he was. But to get people to line up, wouldn’t he have been screaming at some point (”Get in a line!” etc)? I’m assuming that no one would have lined up for him once they knew he was a killer, so the line up probably happened when he first entered the building, before anyone had reason to suspect him. But none of the students who were in the building at the time heard anything, at least from what I’ve seen, aside from gunshots.
Update: VTech’s student newspaper has an as-yet-incomple list of the dead and reports that people were shot in four different rooms in Norris Hall. The Times has an interactive graphic showing the layout of the campus and the buildings where the murders occurred.
Update: Surprise — Cho was a loner.
Update: Fox says there’s some sort of pending court proceeding against Cho that originated on April 7. They’re checking it now.
Update: Here he is.
Update: All right, here’s a map I lifted from VTech’s homepage. Cho’s dorm room, Harper Hall, is in the black circle; Ambler Johnston, where the first shootings took place, is in red; and Norris Hall is up top in white. You can see why it wouldn’t have taken him long to get back to his own room after the initial murders.
Update: The Blotter reports that Cho purchased his first gun on March 13 — presumably from the guy who posted that bulletin board message that we linked to — then apparently bided his time during the statutory 30-day waiting period until he could buy the second sometime within the last few days. A reader tipped us yesterday that there was a gun show in Roanoke County this past weekend.
Update: Drudge links a report from a local paper suggesting Cho also was responsible for at least one of the bomb threats the school received recently.
Update (Ian): Threatening note found at St. Edwards college in Texas:
Update: The Chicago Tribune’s got a tip on Cho’s suicide note. Sounds like he was an old-fashioned wackjob.
The note included a rambling list of grievances, according to sources. Cho had shown recent signs of violent, aberrant behavior, according to an investigative source, including setting a fire in a dorm room and allegedly stalking some women.
A note believed to have been written by Cho was found in his dorm room that railed against “rich kids,” “debauchery” and “deceitful charlatans” on campus.
The English major from Centreville, Va., a rapidly growing suburb of Washington, D.C., came to the United States in 1992, an investigative source said. He was a legal permanent resident.
His family runs a dry cleaning business and he has a sister who graduated from Princeton University, according to the source.
Now the ChiTrib has updated to add: “Cho also died with the words ‘Ismail Ax’ in red ink on the inside of one of his arms.”
Update: The Daily Mail reports that the woman killed in the first shooting was Emily Hilscher, who lived on the fourth floor of Ambler Johnston dormitory next door to the RA, Ryan Clark. Clark was also killed in the first shooting. They’re speculating that Cho was either involved with her or stalking her.
Update: A shot in the dark here from reader Ray F., but worth posting since Cho was, after all, an English major and this would be a golden we-told-you-so moment if it pans out:
You probably already know this, but in James Fennimore Cooper’s story “The Prairie,” the settler Ishmael Bush, who is attempting to escape from civilization, sets out across the prairie with two key tools, a gun and an axe. Each has a symbolic meaning. The axe — which can either kill or provide shelter — stands for both creation and destruction. Given that the VT killer was an English major, might this be the likely meaning of the words on his arm? Just my two cents.
Update: ABC News has a bit more about the note, which apparently shifts from present to past tense at some point. I wonder if he wrote some or all of it after killing Hilscher and Clark. If so, then the rampage in Norris Hall wasn’t necessarily planned; he might have figured “in for a penny, in for a pound” and decided to go out in a blaze of lunatic glory. Takeaway: “You caused me to do this.”
Update: Shocka: Cho’s creative writing teacher said she could tell from his work that he was “troubled,” and referred him for counseling.
Update: Drudge links to another story about Cho’s alleged connection to Emily Hilscher with an important fact I haven’t seen before:
Witnesses to the shooting said that the gunman was involved in an argument with a girlfriend and had later stormed out of the dormitory building.
A counsellor – believed to be Mr Clark, who was also a resident adviser – was called to calm the situation at the dormitory.
The gunman returned at 7.15am and shot Ms Hilscher and Mr Clark. US media reported that Mr Clark had been shot in the neck.
I thought he arrived at the building initially with gun in hand, i.e., planning to kill her. But that’s not necessarily true now; he might have gone there to argue with her, stormed off back to his room to get the gun, and then come back to kill her and Clark. The two hours between that shooting and the Norris Hall rampage would have given him time to write the note, too. So let’s not assume just yet that this whole thing was planned days in advance.
Update: An excellent point from reader Scott B. about why the dead-to-injured ratio might be so high:
From what I understand, due to the high winds yesterday, no area hospitals (or the VA State Police) were flying helicopters. Thus, all of the wounded—even the most critical victims—had to be transported to hospitals via ambulance.
On a normal day, the most critically injured could have been transported by air to Roanoke or even UVA Hospital in Charlottesville. With the helicopters grounded, UVA was no longer an option at all and Roanoke was a 20-30min drive, which left smaller, regional hospitals—less equipped to deal with very serious injuries—to handle most of the victims.
Update: Here’s an oddity. What would an English major have against the engineering department? “An affidavit for a search warrant filed this morning in Montgomery County, Va., circuit court said police found a ‘bomb threat note . . . directed at engineering school department buildings’ near the bodies of the shooter and some victims.”
Update: The Times is reporting that reporters noticed a “single spent long-rifle shell” on the ground outside the Cho family home this morning in Centreville, Virginia. No idea what to make of that. They also solved the mystery of Cho’s mysterious court appearance: it was for a speeding ticket.
Update: One of his classmates from the VTech creative writing course describes his work:
“His writing, the plays, were really morbid and grotesque,” Derry noted. “I remember one of them very well. It was about a son who hated his stepfather. In the play the boy threw a chain saw around, and hammers at him. But the play ended with the boy violently suffocating the father with a rice krispy treat,” [Stephanie] Derry said.
“He even wrote one play about students being stalked by a teacher.” Derry said.
“I mean, his kind of writing was pretty peculiar, but when we asked him if he had any comments after we’d reviewed his work, he would just shrug and say nothing,” Derry described.
“We made jokes around the class about his work, because it was just so fictional, so surreal, we just had to laugh,” Derry said, “We had to laugh because it couldn’t ever be real or truthful, I mean who throws hammers or chainsaws around?”
“But we always joked we were just waiting for him to do something, waiting to hear about something he did,” Derry said. “But when I got the call it was Cho who had done this, I started crying, bawling.”
Update: And just like that, the Smoking Gun has a copy of Cho’s play.
Update: Standing ovation for VTech’s president at the convocation. Wow. I guess he’s keeping his job.
Update: The Toronto Star claims to have spoken to his roommate. “He was always really, really quiet and kind of weird.”
Update: More from the roommates. Super freaky:
Mr. Grewal recalled how earlier in the year someone running for a student council position visited the suite to pass out candy and ask for votes. Mr. Cho would not even make eye contact with him, turning his head away and refusing to make conversation…
“I would notice a lot of times, I would come in the room and he would kind of be sitting at his desk, just staring at nothing,” he said.
Update: A bombshell from the ChiTrib:
It was 5:30 Monday morning and Karan Grewal was finishing a break after a long night of cramming for his classes at Virginia Tech. As he left the bathroom at Harper Hall, his dormitory mate, Cho Sueng-Hui, wearing boxer shorts and a T-shirt, entered for his morning ritual of applying lotion, inserting his contact lenses and taking his medication.
“He was, like, normal,” Grewal, a 21-year-old accounting major, said today, describing the ordinary start to what turned out to be an extraordinary day…
According to school officials, Cho even had time to post a deadly warning on a school online forum.
“im going to kill people at vtech today,” they said he wrote.
I guess that solves the mystery of whether it was premeditated. More from the Tribune: “After leaving the scene of the first shooting, Cho called a threat to authorities, saying there was a bomb at Norris Hall, about half a mile away from Johnston.” There was a bomb threat called in immediately after two people had been murdered, and they still didn’t lock down the campus?
Update: An interesting theory from reader Michael B. about why Cho would have targeted the engineering department:
On a chat room of (mostly Asian) engineers that I’m on, someone posited that the killer was probably a “real major” (i.e., engineer, scientist, etc.) who played too many video games, “got horrible grades and had to transfer to english.” This hypothesis was put forth by someone who didn’t know about the killers’s anti-engineer department ramblings, so I’d say it’s a pretty decent speculation that he wanted (and failed) to be an engineering major. It would explain the note.
He apparently told his roommates he was a business major when they first moved in together.
Update: Dan Riehl passes along a fascinating but probably apocryphal blog post from someone claiming to be a friend of a friend of Emily Hilscher. Word on the street is that Hilscher and Cho had been dating and that she broke it off two weeks ago when he became too weird and domineering. This would solve the mystery of the engineering department vendetta, perhaps:
Jane isn’t totally sure Emily was actually dating anyone else at this point. But days ago she did have a study group with several young men in it that could possibly have been what set Cho Seung-hui off. There were also several times that young men had walked with Emily on campus between classes, nothing more then casual conversation, but maybe in the eyes of Cho, it looked more intimate. What is clear to Jane is that when Cho Seung-hui entered the Engineering building, he was looking for a specific person or perhaps several people. A friend of hers recalls seeing Cho’s face peering through the door several times during her class, before the shooting started.
So why don’t I buy it? Because Cho’s roommates say they never knew him to have a girlfriend, and based on everything I’ve read about him, he was too introverted and antisocial to even speak to a woman let alone take her out. I’m flagging this anyway because it’s a juicy lead, but it’s almost got to be shinola.
Update: They’re holding a 5:30 press conference and the cop who introduced the governor dropped a mini-bombshell — there’s no evidence of any suicide note left by Cho. That simply can’t be right: WaPo has law enforcement sources telling them two notes were found, the bomb threat near Cho’s body and the “manifesto” found in his dorm room.
Update: Mary K e-mails to say that someone who appears to have been friends with Emily Hilscher (judging from the candid photos they have access to) has posted a message on Facebook denying that Hilscher was involved with Cho in any way. I’d bet anything she’s right. Follow the link and scroll down for the screencap.
Update: Robert from Alphabet City e-mails to say that the message board posting in which Cho allegedly warned that he was going to kill people at VTech seems to have originated at a site called Planet Blacksburg, but that the page in question is now down. Was it a hoax? The Farkleberries site has details. There’s no evidence of a post on the “4chan” site where, according to Planet Blacksburg, Cho left his message, because the archives only go back 10 pages. But Robert e-mails with this screenshot of the Planet Blacksburg. I’m honestly not sure what to think, but the timing does roughly coincide with the time Cho’s roommate met him in the bathroom on Monday morning. That was around 5:30; the posting at 4chan was 4:49.
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I’m reading through the play at Smoking Gun … and it is certainly … disturbing. He had some major father issues, that’s for sure.
Why is it that there is always such a clear pattern of this behavior before these incidents? Are these behaviors so common that we can’t prevent what happens in the end?
Hindsight is indeed always so clear.
Professor Blather on April 17, 2007 at 3:12 PM
I had, and yes it’s bad. Goes to show where our English Departments are going. It’s not as much teaching people how to write as “expressing themselves.” I have to admit I was laughing reading it and could see why the others did as well. I love how the mother picks up the chainsaw and just kinda runs with it and…. then we’re outside!
What I find interesting about it though is how bratty the kid comes out. It’s like Mr. Cho really wanted us to hate the kid. To me “Richard McBeef” was the sympathetic character, driven to kill on accident. Then again that may show just how messed up Cho was. To him the brat was standing up and was to be sympathized with.
But yeah, horrible writing. I could have done that in 8th grade.
Keljeck on April 17, 2007 at 3:13 PM
Just rewound and can answer, he was Director of Lutheran Campus Ministries.
RightWinged on April 17, 2007 at 3:13 PM
Not 100% sure on this, so, take it with a healthy spoon of salt, but, I believe that in Switzerland there are laws requiring all (most?) homes to be armed.
I believe this is an extension of a Swiss law that every citizen is part of the “Swiss Army” and needs to be prepared in case their service is required in defense of their country.
JadeNYU on April 17, 2007 at 3:14 PM
>How in the world could Cho be a English Major senior with such deplorable skills in, uhm… English?
Uh, are you aware of the state of English departments on university campuses these days? If he’s an English major, I’d be surprised if he could even spell.
Doghouse on April 17, 2007 at 3:14 PM
A couple quotes from the VT sports forum following the broadcast.
Also alot of “I don’t agree with Bush…but I’m so happy he came to VT today.”
sunny on April 17, 2007 at 3:14 PM
Think his father wanted him to be an engineer and wasn’t too happy with the “soft” English program?
TheBigOldDog on April 17, 2007 at 3:15 PM
Uh NO! The two things are diametrically opposite.
To whoever it was that was criticising my criticism of the students who blocked the door, that is not what I am crictising. I was crictising the fact that once that was done and an assesment of the situation was done they then did nothing to help their fellow classmates. Barricading the door was indeed the correct first step. The professor who lost his life barricaded the door while allowing his students to escape. The student I was talking about baricaded the door to keep the killer out but then remained frozen even when the killer went across the hall to kill people.
LakeRuins on April 17, 2007 at 3:15 PM
Well, because they would’t let the evangelical bring his rattlesnake in…What? don’t give me that look, I’m kidding! I know, the internet is very serious business.
Some Catholic priests wear gray, but I think Episcopals wear them too. And whats’ wrong with Catholics? Same Jesus… Look I’m sure there will be plenty of different religious speakers, relax, don’t get all worked up. I’m sure they’ll have an evangelical or some other protestant.
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 3:16 PM
With the current emphasis on multiculturalism on campuses, its not surprising to see all the different faith groups represented. In fact, its about the only way that even Christians can participate in such events.
The play that Seung Hui wrote is a strange mix of American & Korean cultural terms. If you listen to some of the youth music and some of the literature they read and the way many talk, the play is not really that odd. (Not to mention the emphasis on horror movies & culture of death that is allowed to be pushed in our culture).
Anyway, the fact that Seung Hui’s professor refered him to counseling because of the play says something positive about the faculty at VT.
Nail51NKP on April 17, 2007 at 3:16 PM
And that’s a key issue. We don’t know that the “list” wouldn’t be twice as long if these drugs did not exist.
taznar on April 17, 2007 at 3:16 PM
No, the religious part is done, and there were just 4 speakers. Catholics are entirely different than evangelical Christians.
RightWinged on April 17, 2007 at 3:20 PM
More from wikipedia on that topic:
It’s an interesting model. It ironically places an enormous number of modern assault weapons in the hands of private citizens, yet it simultaneously conforms to the plain language of our own Second Amendment.
And they coincidentally have a murder rate far lower than countries with strict gun control.
If we ever, as a country, have an honest discussion on the topic, the Swiss model wouldn’t be a bad place start.
Also, I dig their cheese.
Professor Blather on April 17, 2007 at 3:21 PM
Speaking as someone who has a degree in English, it’s very possible. There were some horrible students in my classes.
To be fair, he wasn’t assuming that it wouldn’t work here but was just claiming that it wouldn’t necessarily work here, meaning he wasn’t making any assumptions either way.
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 3:22 PM
Although, I’m not enthusiastic about forcing liberals to own guns. God help us all. Can we just force conservatives to be armed, and then allow liberals to follow their own desire to be disarmed?
I think the world would be a beautiful place.
Gregor on April 17, 2007 at 3:25 PM
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 3:22 PM
Its not just in English! Pick any field!
Nail51NKP on April 17, 2007 at 3:26 PM
(snort)
Nope. Everybody gets to play.
But you never know - some experience and familiarity with firearms might give liberals a more realistic perspective.
(Okay, I was laughing even as I typed that. But anything’s possible.)
I’m out, all. Stay safe.
Professor Blather on April 17, 2007 at 3:27 PM
I thought the same thing when my roommate told me about the Swiss militia structure.
It ensures that everyone is trained in the basics of the weapon (and, of course, weapon safety) and that a majority of the homes are guaranteed to have a weapon (and someone that knows how to use it).
I’d imagine that would make a perp think twice about breaking in. As well as make an invading force think twice about coming in after that cheese.
JadeNYU on April 17, 2007 at 3:27 PM
Engrish
LakeRuins on April 17, 2007 at 3:27 PM
True, but in all honesty, English has got to be one of the easiest degrees to get. All classes require papers. And English degree simply requires more of them.
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 3:34 PM
Here’s a relevant video - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2807602702866411553&hl=en
Penn & Teller’s “Gun Control is Bullsh*t”
rbb on April 17, 2007 at 3:35 PM
I’m Catholic and wouldn’t care if an evangelical did the prayer and there were no Catholic representation. I don’t get why some people have such a damn hangup about denominations. Maybe we hust don’t have that hangup here. Heard that in certain areas in the country, they have Christian stores and Catholic stores, and you have to specify yourself as Catholic or evangelicals throw a sh*tfit.
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 3:37 PM
LakeRuins on April 17, 2007 at 3:27 PM
I know its tempting to make fun of International’s English pronunciation, but I know that I have made some terrible blunders in other foreign languages. They really should be lauded for their attempts to communicate in English.
Nail51NKP on April 17, 2007 at 3:39 PM
Massacre Gun: $571 for 9 mm Glock and 50 Bullets at Roanoke Store
TheBigOldDog on April 17, 2007 at 3:42 PM
Oh c’mon! Kim Jong-il singing “I’m so Ronery” in Team America was hilarious.
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 3:42 PM
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 3:34 PM
Interesting that you say that. My feeling in school was that English was an very difficult major because of all the writing required. And for many international students, writing/speaking is usuallytheir most difficult skill area.
When I used to grade Engineering & Science papers, I was surprised at the atrocious English used by people who were supposedly in the top 20% of their high school classes.
Nail51NKP on April 17, 2007 at 3:46 PM
Who besides me noticed that Cooper’s character’s name was “Ishmael,” not “Ismail?” OTOH, “Ishmael” gets lots of great press at http(colon-slash-slash)www.islamicity(dot)com/mosque/ibrahim(dot)htm. Does this Old War Dog smell a muslim?
bdfaith on April 17, 2007 at 3:46 PM
OT: someone shot near whitehouse? just saw the end of the report on headline news. Can’t find anything, anyone hear/see something?
sunny on April 17, 2007 at 3:48 PM
>$571 for 9 mm Glock and 50 Bullets at Roanoke Store
Glocks are overpriced.
Doghouse on April 17, 2007 at 3:49 PM
That one was.
PRCalDude on April 17, 2007 at 3:53 PM
Time to start a new thread. Too many reactions to too many things.
Valiant on April 17, 2007 at 3:56 PM
One important aspect of this tragety is that Cho was said to be peeking into classrooms prior to his assault, and then the doors had to be barricaded to keep him from entering. Seems like he simply walked from room to room, and given his preparation of the doors no one was in the hall.
We put classroom-type mortise locks in our classroom doors that can always be opened from inside but are always locked from the hall side. After the teacher closes the door a student has to knock to get in. Perhaps this is not typical at the university level. Though Cho may have been admitted into one room, he would have prevented entry into any other room once the shooting began.
shuzilla on April 17, 2007 at 3:58 PM
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 3:42 PM
I have no knowledge of what you mentioned; however, I think its probable that the humor has more to do with who was the target of the humor than his ethnic English.
Anyway, I’ve got to run for a meeting with a Korean on campus. How’s that for humor?
Nail51NKP on April 17, 2007 at 3:59 PM
By preparation of the doors I meant chaining them.
shuzilla on April 17, 2007 at 3:59 PM
sorry bout that ot. it was an accidental secret service shooting wounding two at the whitehouse.
2nd new thread. How about AP vacation ideas or something else light
sunny on April 17, 2007 at 4:00 PM
I’m not saying there weren’t people there. I’m just suggesting as one possible explanation that no one witnessed it. My dorm life was quite a while back, but at 7:15 classes would already be started, so you eliminate those people as witnesses. Additionally, if there were gunshots, I don’t know how many people would just come running out into the hall. As for the search warrant, there’s a big difference in what a RA can do and what the police can do. On the homicides I worked during the mid-90’s, once the scene was secured, they waited on a warrant just to make sure. Even though I was authorized to go in prior to the warrant (Medical Investigator), the police asked that I stay out until the warrent was signed so that a defense attorney couldn’t claim that I tainted the scene because I was “acting” on behalf of the police. Once it’s determined that there is no more emergency (injured individuals or someone actively running around the building with a gun ) protocols take over and they would follow them to insure that all evidence stayed legal. It wouldn’t surprise me if the moment the response became a homicide, the police dispatcher called the district attorney’s office to get an ADA on scene to insure the protocols were maintained. As for interviewing witnesses, has it been actually established that he was her boyfriend? He could have been a stalker or a smitten acquaintance. If he was really the boyfriend, I agree, he would be the prime suspect by about an 80% probability until proven otherwise. Also remember, they started looking for someone driving off in a car. So, at least one “witness” sent them off in the wrong direction.
Catseye on April 17, 2007 at 4:00 PM
Parents are starting to ask those kinds of questions, and I can’t say I blame them.
Slublog on April 17, 2007 at 4:05 PM
This guy sounds like he may have been developing paranoid schizophrenia or perhaps had a brain tumor.
tommy1 on April 17, 2007 at 4:05 PM
naliaka:
My comment made no claim that assimilation stress caused this massacre. In fact, it was to the contrary. My point was that millions have gone through assimilation and did not become mass murderers. Why did he…?
Also, in ‘92 he would have been a young child. I’d have to say that he was pretty much assimilated by now.
Try as hard as you can, but I doubt that as this kind of trend continues you will be able to deny that there is something about our culture that makes america fertile ground for this kind of horrible tragedy.
Bring up history and past civilizations all you want, the scope in terms of frequency and death toll are unique to our country in the past 15 years. Why? Why here, why now?
unamused on April 17, 2007 at 4:05 PM
If Fox is stating it “may be a reference to the Old Testament” then they are sloppy reporting without fact-checking, or someone made a decision to murky the waters. There is NO reference to Ismail’s Ax in the Bible. Ishmael as the person is described in the Old Testament (The Torah). The only other religious text that has Ishmael is the Koran,, which was heavily derived from the scriptures (having been written much later, in 600s A.D.) In the Koran, Ishmael assumes Issac’s status as the heir of the inheritance. Much much more is added about Ishmael in the Koran, and about Abraham. If you want to know what the “inheritance” is, it’s the line of the “Messiah,” and therefore, the true path to salvation. The Biblical scriptures state that Ishmael was firstborn (and normally would have been the heir) but since he was of the servant, not the wife, when Issac was born of the lawful wife, it is stated that God told Abraham that Ishmael would be a great nation, but the inheritance would be through Issac. Therefore, with two claims to the Truth, which one prevails? The Koran states that Ishmael is the heir and that it was he, not Issac who God told Abraham to offer as sacrifice.
Whatever you think of all this is your business, but that’s the background.
naliaka on April 17, 2007 at 4:07 PM
Lack of morals. Lack of parental teaching and responsibility. Lack of punishment. Excessive drug use and the effects thereof. Desensitizing to violence due to modern video games. And … a decline in religious belief caused by government, and of course … liberals.
Gregor on April 17, 2007 at 4:10 PM
Weird. He called in a bomb threat indicating Norris Hall, where he then went and killed 30 people?
Was he trying to get the building evacuated so he wouldn’t kill people, or was he trying to get caught in the act, and potentially have a suicide by cop?
That’s really a weird thing to do.
Enoxo on April 17, 2007 at 4:10 PM
He could of gotten lots on training just on the net.
http://www.fpscreator.com/
I watch my own sons play FPS games, and simply amazed how good they are at it. My father watched them play a WWII FPS (Korean War Vet) and was shocked at the level of detail, and how good they were, especially as snipers. I try to make a point that these are games, and there is no “reset” button in the real world.
I would certainly like to know what games he had played or was he playing. What really sickens me is that some person, somewhere is sitting in his dorm room (or office) thinking he can get a higher score.
Wuptdo on April 17, 2007 at 4:15 PM
I guess what I mean is that every student has to write papers. Every student has to have a basic understanding of how to write a paper.
But students outside of English classes have to actually learn another subject. Engineering is complicated. Understanding the symbolism of an axe is not.
But maybe I’m being too hard on the degree because of my own experience.
To be fair, you should read the websites faq section. The person lived and worked in Japan for years and admits that it’s mostly laziness that causes “Engrish” examples to exist.
Still, they’re pretty funny.
I mean come on.
Besides, according to the person who runs the site, there are sites that do the same thing only with Japanese
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 4:15 PM
Allah, there were warning signs from our shooter too. There almost always are. Schools are so woefully unprepared for this type of event it oughta be a National Scandal. Both in prevention and the event itself. Students are not encouraged to come forward, and are often discouraged by fear that they’ll be wrong/embarrassed/targeted etc. Teachers admin and students are not drilled in dealing with crisis.
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 4:16 PM
That kinda makes sense actually. Maybe he wanted to die but was too much of a coward to kill himself.
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 4:17 PM
Here are two of this plays.
tommy1 on April 17, 2007 at 4:19 PM
Jack Thompson, is that you?
Seriously, don’t get sucked into this route, next you’ll be blaming Marilyn Manson too.
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 4:20 PM
Well, you know, that Manson guy is really freaky… and I hear he’s popular in Korea… I wouldn’t rule him out too soon… do we know where he was yesterday? ;)
dead-duck on April 17, 2007 at 4:22 PM
>The person lived and worked in Japan for years and admits that it’s mostly laziness that causes “Engrish” examples to exist.
24+ years of experience with the Japanese and Japanese companies and living in Japan, etc., etc., etc., and I can verify that yes, it’s mostly laziness that results in Engrish in Japan.
Doghouse on April 17, 2007 at 4:27 PM
Here’s a photo of Emily Hilscher, the first person shot. Cute girl. 18.
I don’t think there is a chance in hell that Cho Seung-Hui and this girl were in a relationship, had ever dated, or had much contact at all. By all accounts, Cho was a loner who didn’t even reply when people greeted him in the halls. You gotta say hello to get a date. No girl is gonna date you if you have creeped everyone out, if you’re the guy standing in the corner like a crazed loner, friendless and scary.
My guess is that something happenned over the weekend that was the trigger. Maybe Cho had been obsessing about this girl, Emily. He was said to be stalking coeds. It looks to me like he was so poorly socialized that he did not know how to meet chicks, so he stalked them hoping something would happen instead of just walking right up to them and saying, “Hi, I’m Cho.” The stalking just dug his social hole deeper, made him more frustrated.
Maybe he saw Emily at a social function over the weekend and couldn’t bring himself to approach her. Maybe he was obsessing about her all weekend. So he decided to go act on it first thing Monday morning. Emily, surprised and creeped out by this early morning approach from a stranger out of the blue, reacted loudly and negatively. Cho, stung by this rejection, flipped out. When another guy, the RA, intervened, that made it worse. The woman rejected him and now another male assumed control of the situation. Cho was humiliated. He would take back control of the situation with a gun. He’d show them both who was in control.
Cho had been daydreaming about this mass assault for a while. He probably had been fantasizing about this rampage where he would take control of the school which had socially rejected him. He would show them all.
He had been collecting equipment to act out his dream for weeks before this attack. He bought the guns, filed off their serial numbers. The chains. Ammo, lots of ammo. The vest to carry it all. He had dreamed it in detail. Perhaps if there had been no stressor, it would have come to nothing. But the girl rejected him. That set him off.
That’s one scenario for how it went down.
Tantor on April 17, 2007 at 4:27 PM
And apathy.
Doghouse on April 17, 2007 at 4:27 PM
>And apathy.
That was an addition to the reasons for Engrish.
Doghouse on April 17, 2007 at 4:28 PM
>I don’t think there is a chance in hell that Cho Seung-Hui and this girl were in a relationship
Again: stalker–>fantasy relationship–>If I can’t have you then nobody can.–>We’ll be together in the next life. Baby.
Doghouse on April 17, 2007 at 4:29 PM
Sure blame the girl! Huge sarc, lighten up. It sounds like this guy had personnel skills of a lobster so ya he didn’t fit in this world. It is a shame he had to take 30 people with him when he committed suicide.
Hearing about him calling in a bomb threat before going to building certainly does raise some questions. I wonder if he called in from a cell phone and therby inteneded to lay in ambush waiting on the students to come out or did he try to get the building evacuated and then do some sort of die in place by committing “blue” suicide.
LakeRuins on April 17, 2007 at 4:32 PM
I have a hard time believing that. Maybe he wouldn’t have done the rampage that day if he hadn’t been triggered by something, likely the girl, but everything I’ve read indicates that he had been planning this for some time.
That’s certainly an interesting take, though it wouldn’t explain why he locked the doors once he got inside.
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 4:37 PM
My point was that the “immigrant maladaptiveness” is overrated. It’s been used quite frequently by the press, especially since Salt Lake City as an excuse, and I believe it is part of the Left’s world-view that America is the root of all problems. Therefore, that softens people into the concept that it’s such a emotional stressful thing for immigrants to come to America. I called BS. That’s all.
This is why: I have spent most of my life living from country to country, in wildly harder living conditions, having to learn other languages to get around, whilst dragging the kids along, AND having worked with refugees from ethnic cleansing in Muslim countries, so I have different perspective, and absolutely have little patience for too much blah-blah. Maybe my logic looks better if you know that. This guy was S. Korean, living many years in a comfortable neighborhood in Virginia. Where’s the immigrant strife? Where’s the strife he fled from in S. Korea? None! My kids had a shock going into foreign schools - having to learn the language, moving every few years to another country, and they had another shock living in the US for the first time, and not being able to read their school textbooks in English. They’re fine. They hang out with the foreign students at school, most of who happen to be S.Korean. Everybody’s fine.
So, I have no patience for the “immigrant stress line.” The people we’ve known - one guy lost all his kids in Rwanda. He found his wife in a refugee camp, a bit stressed, to say the least. He goes to work and isn’t all moody and twitchy. If anyone had an excuse for maladjustment, they do, but they are carrying on and trying to live.
I am not really railing against you personally, but against the conventional wisdom that is being pushed in the media that trivializes important things but exaggerates the trival. “Immigrant maladjustment” is a phony. Let’s move on and talk about other things.
Since I’ve spent years in various Islamic Republics or dominant Islamic countries and the remainder of countries with large Muslim populations, the reference to Ishamel’s Ax is more significant to me than others, perhaps?
naliaka on April 17, 2007 at 4:38 PM
Sad thing is in the US this is a horrible abberation that rarely happens even with our. “Gun Culture”
In Iraq and the Middle East this boy would be called a martyr and be a hero.
William Amos on April 17, 2007 at 4:40 PM
Maybe it’s a mistake to assign rational motives to the shooter. After all, shooting 32 people was not a rational response to his problems. It made everything worse for him, not better. If he did call in a bomb threat to the same building he later assaulted, maybe in his head that was just another way of attacking it.
Tantor on April 17, 2007 at 4:40 PM
About English major.
A lot of parents send their kids to the US to improve their English. They get a better corporate salary job or an international job (multinational) if they have English competencies. English is the current international business language.
They aren’t here for the literature.
naliaka on April 17, 2007 at 4:42 PM
Really? Was there a Christian minister there? I didn’t hear all of it, but I didn’t see/hear one. Even then, why was it that the Christian references were ecumenical, but the Islamic one was doctrinal?
Tim Burton on April 17, 2007 at 4:47 PM
True,
But I just read Mr. Brownstone, wow that was horrible….
JVelez on April 17, 2007 at 4:48 PM
This is probably just a very odd coincidence, but UPenn had a situation a few months ago where a Penn Law student (who was definitely suffering from some sort of paranoid disorder) thought his neighbors were spying on him and fired 15 shots through their door. Thankfully no one was hurt, and the student was arrested. [Link: media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com...] What’s odd is that his last name was also Cho, and I believe he was also originally from South Korea…
Yossarian on April 17, 2007 at 4:56 PM
Well, THANKS dude, for sparing us all the expense and pain of executing your sorry @$$.
Reposting this from earlier…
Ten Cynical, Hokie, And Predictable Predictions For The Aftermath Of The Virginia Tech Massacre
….was I WRONG?
seejanemom on April 17, 2007 at 4:59 PM
There still are a lot of unanswered questions:
1) Was he a convert to Islam? They do search out troubled Americans and other ethnic groups. I know they really attempt to recruit here in Northern Virginia, especially troubled Latinos. If he is not what does Ismail Ax mean? He definitely was not exposed to The Prairie at the Virginia Tech English department.
2) Was he influenced by all the hate in South Korean media? I doubt it. His play is nuts and godawful but the English syntax is fine. He seems assimilated to the worst of our culture.
3) Did he serve in the Korean military? All Korean male citizens have to. Anyway, he is old for the average senior in college. Most Koreans do their 2-year military service between their sophomore and junior years.
4) If this was premeditated, who else knew about it? I find it awfully weird (especially with Ismail Muslim reference) that that Saudi Arabian Palestinian born student just happened to record the incident on his cellphone, just as the taser incident at the UCLA library just happened to be recorded on cellphone at the moment it happened.
Naliaka- Cho Seung Hui has been in the country since 1992 and his parents live here in Fairfax County. From my experience knowing Korean culture, they would not be happy that their son is majoring in English (especially if it were not an Ivy League)and not engineering, business, biology, etc. With his nutty, juvenile play, I would say there were some issues between him and his parents.
januarius on April 17, 2007 at 5:04 PM
One more thing: A lot of young Koreans go totally nuts because of all the academic pressure put on them in their high schools, especially if they cannot please their parents.
Then Koreans shun them making their isolation worse. It is called wang-tta. This guy was evidently nuts.
januarius on April 17, 2007 at 5:09 PM
A bomb threat doesn’t automatically lock down a campus. I was working at Purdue University after 9/11 and after that a couple bomb threats were called in. The buildings were evacuated, but the rest of campus went on like normal. We were not informed by email or phone of the bomb threats. Employees learned about it from the news. We were instructed to keep working. So it doesn’t surprise me that even after the bomb threat was called in, nothing was done outside of the threatened building.
icelandicfarmer on April 17, 2007 at 5:14 PM
There was a Lutheran minister, and my guess is the individual clergy chose what they said. As for ecumenical/doctrinal, you said you didn’t even hear the damn thing, so why are you throwing around baseless assertions? If you have issue with the clergymens statements, its with them, not the school.
Goddamn, I’m as critical of Islam as many are, but stupid paranoid groundless ranting is stupid and makes us look foolish, ZOMG, Teh Moooselimb hed 4 teh HILLZZ!!!11!1!1111eleventy1
The guys there to say a prayer and a few words, and you’d think he was screaming DIRKA DIRKA MOHAMMED JIHAD and blowing himself up the way some of you reacted. Find where he’s said something radical or had shady dealings, and I’ll say he shouldnt be there, until then, Get a grip! This is the same bullsh*t as the Obama thing, its ridiculous paranoia. I’ll be Outraged! (TM)when there is something to be Outraged! (TM) about.
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 5:14 PM
It could be this guy was nuts period regardless of his ethnicity.
EnochCain on April 17, 2007 at 5:17 PM
An ideology of victimology, class warfare, resentment and hate?
petefrt on April 17, 2007 at 5:19 PM
Interesting article: JI (the Southeast Asian wing of Al Qaeda) has decided to move beyond bombs to targeting civilians for assasination.
https://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2007/04/17/200704170036.asp
I really do think that there is something deeper to this, especially with the Ismail Ax reference and that Saudi student at Tech filming the incident, then claiming on CNN it compares to the treatment of Palestinians by Israelis.
januarius on April 17, 2007 at 5:25 PM
Again - outstanding job to the HA crew in general and AP in particular. Checking in here once an hour is giving me information much more quickly (and objectively, and succinctly) then the TV droning in the background.
Seriously, have you guys slept?
Professor Blather on April 17, 2007 at 5:28 PM
Perhaps he intended to shoot people as they stood outside, unprotected, but couldn’t get to the building before students returned to class. Maybe going into the engineering building was plan B… who knows?
First, there are 300 million of us, and secondly, one massacre is not a trend.
shuzilla on April 17, 2007 at 5:31 PM
ProfessorBlather——
I saw the HOTAIR team of Michelle, Bryan, and Ian in action at CPAC.
It was AMAZING.
Michelle looked stunning running on adrenaline and bad coffee, Bryan was fading, but hanging….and at the blogger’s Happy Hour, poor Ian…PERFECTLY SOBER, was zoned OUT exhausted.The mother in me wanted to offer him my lap to curl up in…poor thing…
So to answer…NO. The HOTAIR TEAM NEVER SLEEPS-—My guess is they “plug in to the Collective Hive Mind” to recharge, nothing more.
Sincerely—I was amazed at the stamina. Why do you think they can bring you this stuff every waking moment of the day?
Allah, of course was his usual reclusive self and was running the show from afar…but GOD NEVER SLEEPS, right?
seejanemom on April 17, 2007 at 5:36 PM
One of my close friends is Korean. She majored in music and didn’t go to an Ivy League school.
You could be right about this guy, but not all Koreans fall into this category.
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 5:37 PM
No. The idea that everyone adapts perfectly is part of the Left’s worldview. The idea that friction is nonexistent and trivial is part of the Left’s worldview. The idea that multiculturalism is just dandy is part of the Left’s worldview. Who says anyone is blaming America for these people’s problems? We are saying that some of them just don’t get it and shouldn’t be here.
tommy1 on April 17, 2007 at 5:37 PM
You saw him in person???? I’m so curious.
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 5:38 PM
(And Doghouse)
Not quite. Yes a 9MM does have significantly higher velocity than your average semi-auto pistol round, and higher penetration, but it is hardly THAT penetrative.
A FMJ bullet might go through several peoples arms or other thin body parts, and maybe 25% of the time you might get full penetration of one torso and into another body, but ’several people’??? No way.
And to further throw grit in your gears, the FMJ bullets are much less lethal than a hollow point or even a soft nose or solid lead projectile. Unless you hit a major vital organ a 9mm FMJ (or even three) is unlikely to kill you if you can get medical attention relatively quickly.
Even the most lethal 9mm bullets aren’t particularly immediately lethal without very precise placement (head, heart etc.) Lots of true stories of people absorbing up to several 9MM FMJ projectiles and not even being slowed down until the adrenaline (or PCP) rush is over or just too much blood is lost to make the muscles move.
LegendHasIt on April 17, 2007 at 5:38 PM
I don’t think AP sleeps. At least not like a human.
spmat on April 17, 2007 at 5:40 PM
Yes, Esthier.
There is a God.
heh.
seejanemom on April 17, 2007 at 5:40 PM
Any more info on this spent shell? The Walther P22 that Cho used uses .22 LR ammunition. LR is for long rifle. This ammo is used in every imaginable type of gun, rifles, semi-auto’s, revolvers and is available cheap and everywhere inlcuding Walmart. So, if its a .22 LR shell, then maybe its from Chos Walther.. just sayin.
RobertCSampson on April 17, 2007 at 5:40 PM
Sorry. I refuse to restrict my thinking or my words by your politically correct nonsense. The fact is that Islam is a violent radical ideology and the Qur’an is an instruction manual for those warped views. Those who would have you believe that Islam is a peaceful religion or that radicals have somehow “warped” and “twisted” the true religion of Islam either do not know what the hell they’re talking about, or they are lying to you.
We’re not saying all “Muslims” are bad people or “radicals”, but those who are not are NOT following the guidelines set forth by Islam.
Someone being allowed to quote the Qur’an in this situation is utterly idiotic. Period. We’re talking about the book which almost all terrorism is based upon, and it’s being quoted in a press conference relating to a mass murder which may or may not still turn out to have been inspired by that same book.
Gregor on April 17, 2007 at 5:41 PM
wow, everything is so red and italic-y!
dead-duck on April 17, 2007 at 5:46 PM
Didn’t mean “press conference.”
Gregor on April 17, 2007 at 5:47 PM
I thought it was just me. Though on my screen it’s back to normal already, so this conversation is probably moot.
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 5:48 PM
Look, for all you know, some of the victims were Muslims. There is no reason to deny them this just because of what terrorists are doing.
Islam does not have to be filled with violence.
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 5:50 PM
How is this appropriate? How do you know that any of the casualties weren’t Muslim? That’s just vile man.
Of all the things I’ve read, from Januarius pointing out how anti-American So. Koreans are to the Engrish crap and the “this is what I woulda done” comments, this takes the cake.
How can you defend yourself against the nutroots if this is the example set?
You want to hate all Muslims, Gregor? Go ahead. You are setting quite an example.
SouthernDem on April 17, 2007 at 5:57 PM
Yeah, by the time my post went through the italics were gone, but everything was still red and then I hit refresh and the red was gone too… thus leaving me looking more than a little nuts… but it’s all good :)
dead-duck on April 17, 2007 at 5:59 PM
Even if this is 100% true, it doesn’t matter. This sort of ranting looks paranoid and bigoted to people, sorry, it does. You can pretend it doesn’t matter, it does, it gives the nutroots and MSM ammo against you, and conservatives, and guess what, it works! You can beat your breast about fighting PC, but we live in a PC world, and sometimes you have to play by PC rules to win, not always, but sometimes.
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 5:59 PM
Come on. Read the site. It’s not making fun of those who speak Engrish.
The rest though I agree with.
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 5:59 PM
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