Breaking: ABC News ID’s VT gunman as Cho Seung-Hui; Update: Killer’s warning may be a ‘Net hoax
posted at 9:27 am on April 17, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Just across. Looks like the bulletin board posting Bryan quoted last night was right on the money.
Seung Hui Cho, a permanent resident of the United States, a Korean national and a Virginia Tech student has been identified as the gunman in the shootings that left 33 people dead on the Virginia Tech campus Monday, ABC News has learned.
The student left a “disturbing note” before killing two people in a dorm room, returning to his own room to re-arm and entering a classroom building on the other side of campus to continue his rampage, sources said.
Cho’s identitiy has been confirmed with a positive fingerprint match on the guns used in the rampage and with immigration materials. It is believed that he was the shooter in both incidents yesterday. Sources say Cho was carrying a backpack that contained receipts for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol, sources said. Witnesses had also told authorities that the shooter was carrying a backpack. Sections of chain similar to those used to lock the main doors at Norris Hall, the site of the second shooting that left 31 dead, were found inside a Virginia Tech dormitory, sources confirmed to ABC News.
The university’s holding a press conference right now. Standby.
Update: The cops just confirmed his ID at the presser. He lived on campus at Harper Hall. Lab tests confirmed that one of the weapons was used in both shootings yesterday. WaPo had a hot tip about this early this morning, identifying the suspect as Korean, not Chinese as had previously been reported.
Update: They’re talking now about some of the heroes who helped slow Cho down during his rampage. Slublog sends along this story about Prof. Liviu Librescu, who held the classroom door shut while his students escaped through the windows. One fact it doesn’t mention: Librescu was a Holocaust survivor.
Update: Meanwhile, ABC still hasn’t retracted its alarmist post about high-capacity magazines.
Update: I still don’t understand how he managed to be so lethal while shooting randomly. 32 killed, 20+ wounded; how often does any sort of attack result in more dead than hurt? The cops did say that he lined some students up and executed them sequentially, but that’s strange too. He’s one guy, with (let’s assume) 10 guys in a line in front of him. After he shot the first two or three and the rest realized what was about to happen, wouldn’t they have rushed him?
A doctor interviewed this morning on CNN said the victims he’d treated had all been shot at least three times, so it could be that he came equipped with a huge volume of ammo and just kept spraying bullets. Although again, in that case, you’d expect more injured than killed. I wonder if we’re going to find out that he used an especially destructive form of ammo, hollow-tipped or something along those lines.
Update: Another thing. I haven’t read a single report yet of Cho saying anything during the shooting. In fact, a couple of people have noticed how calm and quiet he was. But to get people to line up, wouldn’t he have been screaming at some point (”Get in a line!” etc)? I’m assuming that no one would have lined up for him once they knew he was a killer, so the line up probably happened when he first entered the building, before anyone had reason to suspect him. But none of the students who were in the building at the time heard anything, at least from what I’ve seen, aside from gunshots.
Update: VTech’s student newspaper has an as-yet-incomple list of the dead and reports that people were shot in four different rooms in Norris Hall. The Times has an interactive graphic showing the layout of the campus and the buildings where the murders occurred.
Update: Surprise — Cho was a loner.
Update: Fox says there’s some sort of pending court proceeding against Cho that originated on April 7. They’re checking it now.
Update: Here he is.
Update: All right, here’s a map I lifted from VTech’s homepage. Cho’s dorm room, Harper Hall, is in the black circle; Ambler Johnston, where the first shootings took place, is in red; and Norris Hall is up top in white. You can see why it wouldn’t have taken him long to get back to his own room after the initial murders.
Update: The Blotter reports that Cho purchased his first gun on March 13 — presumably from the guy who posted that bulletin board message that we linked to — then apparently bided his time during the statutory 30-day waiting period until he could buy the second sometime within the last few days. A reader tipped us yesterday that there was a gun show in Roanoke County this past weekend.
Update: Drudge links a report from a local paper suggesting Cho also was responsible for at least one of the bomb threats the school received recently.
Update (Ian): Threatening note found at St. Edwards college in Texas:
Update: The Chicago Tribune’s got a tip on Cho’s suicide note. Sounds like he was an old-fashioned wackjob.
The note included a rambling list of grievances, according to sources. Cho had shown recent signs of violent, aberrant behavior, according to an investigative source, including setting a fire in a dorm room and allegedly stalking some women.
A note believed to have been written by Cho was found in his dorm room that railed against “rich kids,” “debauchery” and “deceitful charlatans” on campus.
The English major from Centreville, Va., a rapidly growing suburb of Washington, D.C., came to the United States in 1992, an investigative source said. He was a legal permanent resident.
His family runs a dry cleaning business and he has a sister who graduated from Princeton University, according to the source.
Now the ChiTrib has updated to add: “Cho also died with the words ‘Ismail Ax’ in red ink on the inside of one of his arms.”
Update: The Daily Mail reports that the woman killed in the first shooting was Emily Hilscher, who lived on the fourth floor of Ambler Johnston dormitory next door to the RA, Ryan Clark. Clark was also killed in the first shooting. They’re speculating that Cho was either involved with her or stalking her.
Update: A shot in the dark here from reader Ray F., but worth posting since Cho was, after all, an English major and this would be a golden we-told-you-so moment if it pans out:
You probably already know this, but in James Fennimore Cooper’s story “The Prairie,” the settler Ishmael Bush, who is attempting to escape from civilization, sets out across the prairie with two key tools, a gun and an axe. Each has a symbolic meaning. The axe — which can either kill or provide shelter — stands for both creation and destruction. Given that the VT killer was an English major, might this be the likely meaning of the words on his arm? Just my two cents.
Update: ABC News has a bit more about the note, which apparently shifts from present to past tense at some point. I wonder if he wrote some or all of it after killing Hilscher and Clark. If so, then the rampage in Norris Hall wasn’t necessarily planned; he might have figured “in for a penny, in for a pound” and decided to go out in a blaze of lunatic glory. Takeaway: “You caused me to do this.”
Update: Shocka: Cho’s creative writing teacher said she could tell from his work that he was “troubled,” and referred him for counseling.
Update: Drudge links to another story about Cho’s alleged connection to Emily Hilscher with an important fact I haven’t seen before:
Witnesses to the shooting said that the gunman was involved in an argument with a girlfriend and had later stormed out of the dormitory building.
A counsellor – believed to be Mr Clark, who was also a resident adviser – was called to calm the situation at the dormitory.
The gunman returned at 7.15am and shot Ms Hilscher and Mr Clark. US media reported that Mr Clark had been shot in the neck.
I thought he arrived at the building initially with gun in hand, i.e., planning to kill her. But that’s not necessarily true now; he might have gone there to argue with her, stormed off back to his room to get the gun, and then come back to kill her and Clark. The two hours between that shooting and the Norris Hall rampage would have given him time to write the note, too. So let’s not assume just yet that this whole thing was planned days in advance.
Update: An excellent point from reader Scott B. about why the dead-to-injured ratio might be so high:
From what I understand, due to the high winds yesterday, no area hospitals (or the VA State Police) were flying helicopters. Thus, all of the wounded—even the most critical victims—had to be transported to hospitals via ambulance.
On a normal day, the most critically injured could have been transported by air to Roanoke or even UVA Hospital in Charlottesville. With the helicopters grounded, UVA was no longer an option at all and Roanoke was a 20-30min drive, which left smaller, regional hospitals—less equipped to deal with very serious injuries—to handle most of the victims.
Update: Here’s an oddity. What would an English major have against the engineering department? “An affidavit for a search warrant filed this morning in Montgomery County, Va., circuit court said police found a ‘bomb threat note . . . directed at engineering school department buildings’ near the bodies of the shooter and some victims.”
Update: The Times is reporting that reporters noticed a “single spent long-rifle shell” on the ground outside the Cho family home this morning in Centreville, Virginia. No idea what to make of that. They also solved the mystery of Cho’s mysterious court appearance: it was for a speeding ticket.
Update: One of his classmates from the VTech creative writing course describes his work:
“His writing, the plays, were really morbid and grotesque,” Derry noted. “I remember one of them very well. It was about a son who hated his stepfather. In the play the boy threw a chain saw around, and hammers at him. But the play ended with the boy violently suffocating the father with a rice krispy treat,” [Stephanie] Derry said.
“He even wrote one play about students being stalked by a teacher.” Derry said.
“I mean, his kind of writing was pretty peculiar, but when we asked him if he had any comments after we’d reviewed his work, he would just shrug and say nothing,” Derry described.
“We made jokes around the class about his work, because it was just so fictional, so surreal, we just had to laugh,” Derry said, “We had to laugh because it couldn’t ever be real or truthful, I mean who throws hammers or chainsaws around?”
“But we always joked we were just waiting for him to do something, waiting to hear about something he did,” Derry said. “But when I got the call it was Cho who had done this, I started crying, bawling.”
Update: And just like that, the Smoking Gun has a copy of Cho’s play.
Update: Standing ovation for VTech’s president at the convocation. Wow. I guess he’s keeping his job.
Update: The Toronto Star claims to have spoken to his roommate. “He was always really, really quiet and kind of weird.”
Update: More from the roommates. Super freaky:
Mr. Grewal recalled how earlier in the year someone running for a student council position visited the suite to pass out candy and ask for votes. Mr. Cho would not even make eye contact with him, turning his head away and refusing to make conversation…
“I would notice a lot of times, I would come in the room and he would kind of be sitting at his desk, just staring at nothing,” he said.
Update: A bombshell from the ChiTrib:
It was 5:30 Monday morning and Karan Grewal was finishing a break after a long night of cramming for his classes at Virginia Tech. As he left the bathroom at Harper Hall, his dormitory mate, Cho Sueng-Hui, wearing boxer shorts and a T-shirt, entered for his morning ritual of applying lotion, inserting his contact lenses and taking his medication.
“He was, like, normal,” Grewal, a 21-year-old accounting major, said today, describing the ordinary start to what turned out to be an extraordinary day…
According to school officials, Cho even had time to post a deadly warning on a school online forum.
“im going to kill people at vtech today,” they said he wrote.
I guess that solves the mystery of whether it was premeditated. More from the Tribune: “After leaving the scene of the first shooting, Cho called a threat to authorities, saying there was a bomb at Norris Hall, about half a mile away from Johnston.” There was a bomb threat called in immediately after two people had been murdered, and they still didn’t lock down the campus?
Update: An interesting theory from reader Michael B. about why Cho would have targeted the engineering department:
On a chat room of (mostly Asian) engineers that I’m on, someone posited that the killer was probably a “real major” (i.e., engineer, scientist, etc.) who played too many video games, “got horrible grades and had to transfer to english.” This hypothesis was put forth by someone who didn’t know about the killers’s anti-engineer department ramblings, so I’d say it’s a pretty decent speculation that he wanted (and failed) to be an engineering major. It would explain the note.
He apparently told his roommates he was a business major when they first moved in together.
Update: Dan Riehl passes along a fascinating but probably apocryphal blog post from someone claiming to be a friend of a friend of Emily Hilscher. Word on the street is that Hilscher and Cho had been dating and that she broke it off two weeks ago when he became too weird and domineering. This would solve the mystery of the engineering department vendetta, perhaps:
Jane isn’t totally sure Emily was actually dating anyone else at this point. But days ago she did have a study group with several young men in it that could possibly have been what set Cho Seung-hui off. There were also several times that young men had walked with Emily on campus between classes, nothing more then casual conversation, but maybe in the eyes of Cho, it looked more intimate. What is clear to Jane is that when Cho Seung-hui entered the Engineering building, he was looking for a specific person or perhaps several people. A friend of hers recalls seeing Cho’s face peering through the door several times during her class, before the shooting started.
So why don’t I buy it? Because Cho’s roommates say they never knew him to have a girlfriend, and based on everything I’ve read about him, he was too introverted and antisocial to even speak to a woman let alone take her out. I’m flagging this anyway because it’s a juicy lead, but it’s almost got to be shinola.
Update: They’re holding a 5:30 press conference and the cop who introduced the governor dropped a mini-bombshell — there’s no evidence of any suicide note left by Cho. That simply can’t be right: WaPo has law enforcement sources telling them two notes were found, the bomb threat near Cho’s body and the “manifesto” found in his dorm room.
Update: Mary K e-mails to say that someone who appears to have been friends with Emily Hilscher (judging from the candid photos they have access to) has posted a message on Facebook denying that Hilscher was involved with Cho in any way. I’d bet anything she’s right. Follow the link and scroll down for the screencap.
Update: Robert from Alphabet City e-mails to say that the message board posting in which Cho allegedly warned that he was going to kill people at VTech seems to have originated at a site called Planet Blacksburg, but that the page in question is now down. Was it a hoax? The Farkleberries site has details. There’s no evidence of a post on the “4chan” site where, according to Planet Blacksburg, Cho left his message, because the archives only go back 10 pages. But Robert e-mails with this screenshot of the Planet Blacksburg. I’m honestly not sure what to think, but the timing does roughly coincide with the time Cho’s roommate met him in the bathroom on Monday morning. That was around 5:30; the posting at 4chan was 4:49.
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I’ll take this with a grain of salt, considering the source. Scientologists are pretty quick to bend things to their agenda.
SouthernDem on April 17, 2007 at 1:56 PM
But again, as the Fox News story mentioned above, it may actually be a reference to the Old Testament. It may also be a reference to some other literature (like the James Fenimore Cooper story mentioned earlier).
tommy1 on April 17, 2007 at 1:56 PM
I do not get people with that attitude…I am in Alabama but 9/11 hit me very hard and still does today.
EnochCain on April 17, 2007 at 1:57 PM
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/007328.htm
What’s funny about that is I always get irritated when Muslim (often Pakistani) terrorists are busted or identified after attacks in the UK, and they’re called “asians”. Technically a correct term, but annoying because it is an attempt by the media to ignore the real problem - ISLAM.
But in this case, we’re not supposed to describe an Asian as… Asian!? I know it’s not PC to describe black suspects as “black” (at least in WaPo, I’m sure I’m not the only one who read MM’s post on that sometime last year), and every time a Muslim is arrested on terrorism charges the “Muslim community” says they fear a backlash, but now the Asians!?
RightWinged on April 17, 2007 at 1:57 PM
I told you! It was Boooooooooooooooooshhhh!
/moonbat
saint kansas on April 17, 2007 at 1:57 PM
So, uh, what do they want the guy called? Seriously.
Professor Blather on April 17, 2007 at 1:59 PM
The idea of people being lined up to be executed, without resisting is very disturbing to me. I have to wonder if we are breeding/teaching/forcing the will to fight out of people.
Instead of harping gun control shows, maybe the MSM should be running shows on how to defend oneself in these situations.
My preferred defense is “Run Away! Run Away!” and as Mr. Miagi said, “Best block, no be there”
Iblis on April 17, 2007 at 1:59 PM
My point, Viper1, was to emphasize something I said a bit earlier. Look a few posts above that one you are reading and you’ll see I am actually criticizing the logic nalaika is employing with regard to her idea that immigrant maladaptiveness could not played any real role in this.
tommy1 on April 17, 2007 at 2:00 PM
Oh, and Ian posts that there was a bomb scare in TX. Get ready for that, I can almost guarantee there will be copycat shooters and a large number of threats and bomb scares. Ours was a copycat, and we also had a bomb threat after Columbine(which was unrelated to our shooting) did you know that there were over 100 false bomb threats in PA alone after Columbine? Saw that in Newsweek a few years ago.
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 2:00 PM
Probably Cooper. Robert Spencer isn’t investigating this. It wasn’t likely a jihad.
PRCalDude on April 17, 2007 at 2:01 PM
Search Warrant for VT’s Harper Hall.
I’m sure its “normal” in such circumstances, but it includes: “instructional manuals for criminal acts of mass destruction, acts of terror…”
creepy…
sunny on April 17, 2007 at 2:03 PM
I swear I hate the MSM. Here is a Australian Newspaper that is smearing a VICTIM of this shooting !
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21576271-5001021,00.html
Was gunman crazed over Emily?
By David Williams and Stefanie Balogh
April 18, 2007 12:00
THIS is the face of the girl who may have sparked the worst school shooting in US history.
Eighteen-year-old Emily Jane Hilscher was one of the first two victims to be identified in the Virginia Tech massacre, along with 22-year-old Ryan Clark.
William Amos on April 17, 2007 at 2:06 PM
I read very carefully:
Loner, disturbed, previous violent indicators, Koran - NOT Korean, but the book, just the kind of guy certain bad people look for to incite to big violence.
See there? It said Koran, not Koranic reference. No reason to be defensive, I’m just trying to get a handle on this, just like you are.
Nice Deb on April 17, 2007 at 2:07 PM
Keep ignoring the obvious,
THE FOLLOWING ARE BUT A FEW EXAMPLES:
On May 20, 1988, Laurie Dann walked into a Winnetka, Illinois second grade classroom carrying three pistols and began shooting innocent little children, killing one and wounding five others before killing herself.
Subsequent blood tests revealed that at the time of the killings, Dann was on a psychiatric drug of a class clearly shown to cause unexplained hostile and violent behavior.
On September 26, 1988, 19-year-old James Wilson took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school in Greenwood, South Carolina and started shooting schoolchildren, killing two 8-year-old girls and wounding seven other children and two teachers. Wilson had been in and out of the hands of psychiatrists for years and within 8 months of the killings he had been on several psychiatric drugs which can generate violent behavior. Since the age of 14, he had been given psychiatric drugs, including Xanax, Valium, Thorazine and Haldol.
On January 17, 1989, Patrick Purdy opened fire on a school yard full of young children in Stockton, California. During his vicious and unprovoked assault, Purdy killed five school children and wounded 30 others. Purdy then killed himself. During the two years prior to the murders of the Stockton children, Purdy had been on two strong psychiatric drugs of categories known to cause violence.
On May 21, 1998 14-year-old Kip Kinkel shot and killed his parents and then went a wild shooting spree at his Springfield, Oregon high school that left two dead and 22 injured. He was reportedly taking Prozac and Ritalin and had been attending “anger management” classes.
On November 20, 1986: 14-year-old Rod Mathews beat a classmate to death with a bat in the woods near his home in Canton, Mass. He had been prescribed Ritalin since the third grade.
16-year-old Brian Pruitt, who fatally stabbed his grandparents in 1995, had a history of psychiatric treatment and had been prescribed psychiatric drugs.
And in 1997 16-year old Sam Manzie raped and strangled another boy to death. He was under psychiatric “care” and was being “medicated”.
Psychiatric drugs can cause violence; they can kill. These are facts that psychiatrists and the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI) are not comfortable with. Psychiatrists for obvious reasons– they could and should be held liable for a crime committed by their drugged out patients — and NAMI because it “is awash in money from drug companies” — $3.2 million per year from nine such companies — that manufacturer these often crippling drugs.
Horror stories all. On the surface, the idea of tranquilizers or anti- depressants creating hostility and violence may not make sense. After all, they are supposed to make people calm and quiet. But the reality is that they can and do create this effect. The scientific evidence is overwhelming. The studies documenting this connection go back to the 1960s when we begin to see a rise of senseless violence.
A LITTLE KNOWN FACT: WITHDRAWAL FROM PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS
TURN PEOPLE HORRIFICALLY VIOLENT
Again I reiterate, drugs can help many,many people BUT the way they are now handed out and not monitored carefully has caused a wide problem in society…Big Pharma will fight you on this tooth and nail !!But Doctors don’t have much to do with what the pharmaceutical ndustry does anymore….the tail is wagging the dog!
Mellen on April 17, 2007 at 2:10 PM
OK Smoking gun has some stuff up
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html?link=rssfeed
APRIL 17–The college student responsible for yesterday’s Virginia Tech slaughter was referred last year to counseling after professors became concerned about the violent nature of his writings, as evidenced in a one-act play obtained by The Smoking Gun. The play by Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old English major, was submitted last year as part of a short story writing class. Entitled “Richard McBeef,” Cho’s bizarre play features a 13-year-old boy who accuses his stepfather of pedophilia and murdering his father. A copy of the killer’s play can be found below. The teenager talks of killing the older man and, at one point, the child’s mother brandishes a chain saw at the stepfather. The play ends with the man striking the child with “a deadly blow.” (10 pages)
William Amos on April 17, 2007 at 2:11 PM
Mellen, there is a link between psych meds and shootings, but whether its the underlying mental condition or the drugs effects is difficult to determine. Plus I would find anything the Scientologists say dubious when its comes to psych meds. Hail Xenu, BTW.
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 2:12 PM
The fact that the Cho Seung Hui is described as a loner speaks volumes. Having been involved with Koreans on campus for about 15 years, I have yet to meet a Korean loner. It is a contradiction in terms. Koreans in general are very socially connected, so that fact that Seung Hui seemed to be a loner and possibly had problems with depression, says this was a very disturbed young man. And the fact that he lived here since about age 9 or 10 would imply that he was probably had more influence from American schools than Korean schools.
Its possible that he returned to Korea for military service as he was a senior at 24 vs normally 22 (Korean military service is about 2 years). But most Korean men who enter by the draft seldom get much beyond basic weapons training.
What’s been really disturbing to me has been the media push to blame this on weapons without really considering the people invovled in this whole event. I would like to see all press people required to give their name & press agency when they ask questions at press conferences.
Nail51NKP on April 17, 2007 at 2:15 PM
The entire international media is sickening. All the euros talk about those crazy Americans and their guns, and if only they banned them then the world would be at peace, blah blah. Their media may actually be worse than ours.
brak on April 17, 2007 at 2:15 PM
Just read one of his plays on smoking gun. Weird!!
JVelez on April 17, 2007 at 2:16 PM
I get your point there, but how many heroine addicts would say they’ve never had alcohol or tobacco, or milk? Where does it start?
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 2:16 PM
Self defense classes for the first 12 years in school.
Its healthy (kids barely break a sweat in ‘gym’ class anymore) so we might as well do something useful and productive and …it just might save lives.
The enemy is practicing military training, physically and mentally from 2-3 years old, we better catch up.
As for this:
Keep going naliaka, I’ve got your 6.
shooter on April 17, 2007 at 2:16 PM
The issue of depression & drugs took on new meaning when I went back to look up the UT Tower shooting in 1968 which I saw live on TV then. It was interesting to discover that Charles Whitman was undergoing depression & possibly taking medication for his problems.
Nail51NKP on April 17, 2007 at 2:17 PM
I know. It confused me too. There is a large portion of Los Angeles (and, from what I’ve seen, perhaps most of SoCal) that feels ‘different’ from the US. I have one friend that says he never really saw a point in studying the 13 Colonies because they didn’t have much to do with California.
While I understand what he was saying, I can’t say that I agree. I grew up in Missouri. Should I wait until the Louisiana Purchase before I feel connected to American History? Perhaps, prior to the LA Purchase, I should study the French history of the area instead as that’s “my real history”……
As I said, I can’t really understand it. Of course, I love the founding fathers and think they’re all rock stars (flaws and all), so I’m definitely biased towards early American history.
JadeNYU on April 17, 2007 at 2:19 PM
Oh without a doubt the international is worse, but the problem is that ours strives to be what the international media is. And more importantly, ours affects us directly (media drives public opinion, which drives votes)
RightWinged on April 17, 2007 at 2:20 PM
Hmm I seem to get the vibe that Ismael’s ax is sort a reverse of the Ismael story in which the son sacrifices the father.
At least from that story. It seems our killer had daddy issues.
William Amos on April 17, 2007 at 2:20 PM
Which of these inscriptions on the body of the killer would be headlines on the NYT/CNN/etc.?
A. Ismail Ax
B. Crusade for Christ
Even Drudge is scared to post this.
What’s happening to us?
faraway on April 17, 2007 at 2:20 PM
For the record, unless I’m missing something, the world’s WORST gun massacre - at least until yesterday - was not an American incident.
It happened in Australia. Where they are at this very moment blaming “American gun culture.” Australia has extraordinarily strict gun control laws, by the way - yet somehow this managed to happen:
Here’s the link; and it may actually still hold the record, depending on final counts:
http://www.geniac.net/portarthur/hostages.htm
If you follow the link, you’ll note them talking about several other similar Australian incidents, one in Colombia, and one in Israel (gotta blame the Jews for something!)
What’s my point? My point is that the international media is full of shit. But you knew that.
Professor Blather on April 17, 2007 at 2:21 PM
Nail51nkp
They had a guy on Fox that said this pretty much. Said that his Korean roommate pretty much told him this and was surprised that he didn’t recognize him with how active they were.
Highrise on April 17, 2007 at 2:22 PM
Wow! People aren’t assuming that something written on his arm is a story from the Koran? Unbelievable!
Nonfactor on April 17, 2007 at 2:23 PM
Holocaust survivor saves students, loses his own life…
Link
ryan on April 17, 2007 at 2:23 PM
This is not surprising - people in Cho’s building didn’t know him all that well.
Slublog on April 17, 2007 at 2:25 PM
Bad Candy- I am not referring to scientology….Tom Cruise is an idiot!I am referring to facts! By the way I have a sister who is schizophrenic…her life would be much worse without her drugs…..but one cannot reasonably ignore the common thread in each of these shootings…unless you want to see more of them. And the Big Pharma industry is far less careful when admitting new drugs to the public..the FDA is peopled by lobbyists who are NOT looking out for people…(Vioxx comes to mind) These drugs are now handed out like candy by people and drs who are not educated about their use…a GP can give these drugs and knows not what they can do…and I have seen what withdrawal and the wrong drugs can do…..There is no denying the link here …..But it more interesting to debate the reasons referring to crazy notes and heritage…I could show you many crazy letters from my sister due to a crazed mind…
These drugs affect the brain…Sometimes they do tremendous good-BUT they can also like a pendulum do very bad things to the mind, thus these disasters!
Mellen on April 17, 2007 at 2:27 PM
Is it possible that the person who stormed out is not the same person as the shooter? Afterall, didn’t they have a person of interest in custody who had supposedly been in the girl’s room just that day?
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 2:27 PM
For anybody (read: brainwashed liberals) who still clings to the illusion that gun massacres don’t happen in gun-free Europe, you can start your encounter with reality here:
http://dvc.org.uk/dunblane/
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/09/27/switzerland.shooting/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1952869.stm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/675650/posts
From that last link, a 2002 story:
Sixteen people were killed during Friday’s school shooting in Germany. This follows the killing of 14 regional legislators in Zug, a Swiss canton, last September, and the massacre of eight city council members in a Paris suburb last month. The three worst public shootings in the Western world during the past year all occurred in Europe, whose gun laws are exactly what gun-control advocates want the U.S. to adopt. Indeed, all three occurred in gun-free “safe zones.”
Professor Blather on April 17, 2007 at 2:29 PM
Bad Candy-who said anything about scientology…I speak from experience…I have a sister with chronic schizophrenia..she desperately needs her medication…But the new Pharma likes to admit drugs untested and given out by anyone –AGP does not understand what he is giving most of the time…There is no denying this link….Unless you want it to continue….it is a very serious problem…
Drugs affect the brain…sometimes doing tremendous good, but the wrong drug or withdrawal can cause the pendulum to swing the opposite and disastrous direction.
Mellen on April 17, 2007 at 2:30 PM
This had occurred to me too, in a different way. I thought maybe he was “poetically” imagining himself smashing the school’s false idols (“deceitful charlatans”).
But that wasn’t Ishmael. It was his father, Abraham, and he did it long before Ishmael was born.
Tanya on April 17, 2007 at 2:30 PM
Charles Whitman had a brain tumor and was severely abused as a kid. Given that, I don’t think we need to speculate about more exotic causes that might have lead him to commit his crimes.
tommy1 on April 17, 2007 at 2:32 PM
Is it just me?
I’ve heard three students, all boys/men say to the camera….” it could have been my room” or” it could have been me that was shot” …
Isn’t this extremely selfish?
Do our future leaders, now in college, care so little about others and so much about themselves to think and say such things? Obviously quite unknowing how selfish this is?
Has the leftist mentality of “me me me” settled that far down to their psyche?
Or am I way off here?
shooter on April 17, 2007 at 2:33 PM
To be fair, of course, all of Europe isn’t exactly “gun-free.” Certainly, Switzerland is not.
tommy1 on April 17, 2007 at 2:34 PM
I think the ‘there but for the grace of God go I’ response in these situations is pretty normal.
Slublog on April 17, 2007 at 2:34 PM
I agree. Feeling fortunate is common.
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 2:35 PM
It’s natural to fear, admire, and stand in awe of the randomness and luck of life. It’s natural to question. If a baseball goes right over your head it’s natural to be awed about how that might have killed you or left you brain damaged. Is it selfish to think that when people have been killed by baseballs? No.
Nonfactor on April 17, 2007 at 2:36 PM
I read the play of this idiot. I could not continue after I reached page two
Ouabam on April 17, 2007 at 2:37 PM
Add Canada to that… Does anyone remember last September’s Montreal Vampire?
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/09/14/montreal-shooter-had-a-blog/
Admittedly he may have only killed one, but he injured 19… Just because he’s a shitty shot doesn’t make him insignificant.
RightWinged on April 17, 2007 at 2:38 PM
Bush speech starting
RightWinged on April 17, 2007 at 2:39 PM
Wait till the lawsuits start (5…4…3…) and we’ll see about that.
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on April 17, 2007 at 2:42 PM
Me neither…sicko.
Highrise on April 17, 2007 at 2:42 PM
Huffpo contributer Susan Braudy:
Gregor on April 17, 2007 at 2:42 PM
OMG I am truly heartbroken. I am glad for once that I can not view video at work.
ARRGGHHH
LakeRuins on April 17, 2007 at 2:43 PM
Ahh, gotcha..
Viper1 on April 17, 2007 at 2:43 PM
Excuse the typo please. “Contributor.” At least, that’s what they call her.
Gregor on April 17, 2007 at 2:44 PM
From that HuffPo post you posted:
Interesting that this stupid broad isn’t concerned about the 1.3 million children murdered every year in the name of women’s “choice”, while we face jail time and steep fines for even touching an eagle carcass.
And by the way, she talks about “children killing children”, but there weren’t children involved here. Not important in what happened, but just another thing that invalidates the comments.
RightWinged on April 17, 2007 at 2:46 PM
Rightwinged
has that person ever heard of Andrea Yates?
LakeRuins on April 17, 2007 at 2:47 PM
Actually a good and interesting point, since not only does an extraordinarly high number of Swiss citizens have weapons, they have ASSAULT weapons, military weapons.
From wikipedia:
Oh - and for the record, those millions of weapons are found in a country with a total population of … about 7.5 million people.
Now the interesting part. Look what happens when you compare Switzerland, a country that’s just about overflowing with real live military assault weapons (gasp!) with a country like the United Kingdom, where private gun ownership is just about banned for all but serious competitors and collectors:
Also from wiki:
Interesting, isn’t it?
Hard to explain.
Oh - and thanks for spurring that research, Tommy1. I’m moving to Switzerland.
Professor Blather on April 17, 2007 at 2:47 PM
True. It seems a patch wouldn’t have helped that mother.
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 2:48 PM
Oh boy, a Muslim speaker now… Gotta love hearing him talk about Allah most merciful, etc. Guy, this isn’t your place, sit down.
RightWinged on April 17, 2007 at 2:49 PM
WTF is a Muslim doing there? were Muslims among the dead or is he pining a medal on the guy?
LakeRuins on April 17, 2007 at 2:50 PM
This SOB is quoting the Koran now!? WTF!? Again, I think it would be irresponsible to speculate about this kid being Muslim, even in the face of the “Ismail’ ax” business… but do they really need a Muslim speaker at VT right now, invoking the name of Allah, and quoting from the effing Koran? (I’m guessing he won’t be reading verses encouraging Jihad on infidels)
RightWinged on April 17, 2007 at 2:51 PM
Believe it or not Switzerland isn’t the United Kingdom or the United States or anywhere else. What works there won’t necessarily work here.
Nonfactor on April 17, 2007 at 2:52 PM
Well folks look who is winning the war for America.
LakeRuins on April 17, 2007 at 2:52 PM
What were the quotations?
PRCalDude on April 17, 2007 at 2:53 PM
OH DEAR GOD (Christian, of course)!!! Someone was speaking Arabic!
Nonfactor on April 17, 2007 at 2:53 PM
Agreed. This is totally unnecessary. I had to mute the sound.
infidel4life on April 17, 2007 at 2:54 PM
You’re off your talking points, Sparky. In your world, more guns = more killing, remember? It’s that simple, right?
Go check with Moonbat Central and come back with a better theory than “but … but … they’re different!”
If guns is the problem, you need to explain Switzerland.
If you’re arguing that PEOPLE are the problem … then welcome to the dark side. Together, we can address the moral decay of society - and guess where we’ll be looking?
Uh oh.
Professor Blather on April 17, 2007 at 2:55 PM
If the community has a large Muslim population, I don’t see how having an imam at the convocation is all that awful.
Slublog on April 17, 2007 at 2:56 PM
They’ve also got a Buhdist speaking. I imagine they were trying to cover all of their religious bases.
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 2:56 PM
I do if he’s praying the prayer in chapter 1 of the Qur’an.
PRCalDude on April 17, 2007 at 2:57 PM
While I don’t mind the sentiment and I’m sure plenty of Muslims are grieving today, too … I certainly agree that this was staggeringly in appropriate.
Forced multi-culturalism, obsessive political correctness, should be on display today of all days. Was there any logical reason for a Muslim to speak?
What were they thinking?
Will there be a Buddhist later? An atheist? A Scientologist?
Just unbelievable.
Professor Blather on April 17, 2007 at 2:59 PM
There just was.
Esthier on April 17, 2007 at 2:59 PM
(snort) Sheesh. I was kidding.
Hope they don’t leave anybody out. I’d hate to see some group offended.
Professor Blather on April 17, 2007 at 3:00 PM
Wrong there, buddy. I’m against gun control. Assumptions are fun!
Nonfactor on April 17, 2007 at 3:00 PM
He’s more likely to be thanking the shooter than praying for the victims. For in Islam’s eyes … most of the victims probably deserved what they got.
Gregor on April 17, 2007 at 3:00 PM
Between his age, the inscription on his arm, what I’ve heard so far about the note he left, and what I’ve read of his play posted on TSG, I’d actually bet money on paranoid schizophrenia.
Blacklake on April 17, 2007 at 3:00 PM
O’ my lord a Priest!!!!! There’s an axe in their book too!!!
/oy
sunny on April 17, 2007 at 3:00 PM
Yeah, I suppose… it does seem they’re covering all religions and it wouldn’t be “fair” to only have a Christian (which outside of Bush, I’m not sure we’ve heard yet by the way). But Islam (not “radical” Islam) is behind the worldwide Islamic terror problem, and just in my personal opinion having a Muslim speaker come out and quote “peaceful” verses from the Koran is in bad taste. It’s one thing to condemn the shooting, and say “we’ve gotten a lot of bad press in the past few years, but would like to reach out and say we’re going through the same things here”, etc. but what went down was overboard in my opinion, but I suppose they have to allow it.
RightWinged on April 17, 2007 at 3:01 PM
Oh, come on…must we?
Slublog on April 17, 2007 at 3:01 PM
This is an American tragedy, not a f’ing Muslim concern.
infidel4life on April 17, 2007 at 3:02 PM
What does it matter? They’re all going to spend an eternity in hell if they aren’t Christian. Am I right?
Nonfactor on April 17, 2007 at 3:02 PM
And there are not American Muslims!
Nonfactor on April 17, 2007 at 3:02 PM
Wow.
PRCalDude on April 17, 2007 at 3:03 PM
First LakeRuins…
Your admonishment of the students who risked their lives to baracade the door to their classroom is abhorent. Your definition of coward would necessarily include Prof. Liviu Librescu; any definition that does that is immediately void of power.
Second: Has anyone, besides me, taken the time to read Richard (aka Dick) McBeef? How in the world could Cho be a English Major senior with such deplorable skills in, uhm… English?
Skippng past form, the content of the play is a blatant and often childish cry for help.
May God keep those who lost loved ones on that dreadful morning.
12thman on April 17, 2007 at 3:03 PM
You mean, like assuming that what works in Switzerland wouldn’t work here?
Gregor on April 17, 2007 at 3:03 PM
Agreed, Guys, relax on the damn Muslim thing. Its probably an obligatory diversity thing, or slubbo’s right.
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 3:04 PM
Just ignore him. I’m pretty much in awe of his lack of humanity at the moment, too, but he’s not worth engaging. Maybe tomorrow.
Wow indeed.
Professor Blather on April 17, 2007 at 3:05 PM
Hell no!
Not when the goal of their religion is to put our country under Sharia domination.
infidel4life on April 17, 2007 at 3:05 PM
Agreed, Guys, relax on the damn Muslim thing. Its probably an obligatory diversity thing, or slubbo’s right.Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 3:04 PM
It’s probably both a diversity thing and a nod to the Muslim population at Virginia Tech, which has an Islamic student organization.
Slublog on April 17, 2007 at 3:05 PM
Whoops. That was meant to be quoted, not stike-out.
Slublog on April 17, 2007 at 3:06 PM
Errr … no. I’m Christian and I don’t happen to believe that crap. Sorry.
Gregor on April 17, 2007 at 3:06 PM
He assumed that I believed in something without any evidence. I believe that America is different from Switzerland in the way we view guns based on evidence (much the same way that America views alcohol much different than France of Great Britain; it’s not an assumption, it’s a fact).
Let me quote what I said: “What works there won’t necessarily work here.” Are you saying that what works in one place must absolutely work in another place?
Nonfactor on April 17, 2007 at 3:07 PM
Apparently there are racist emails being sent to Asian students here. That is not good.
zerodamage on April 17, 2007 at 3:08 PM
Well I have to note that unless I missed it while posting here, there wasn’t an evangelical Christian speaker… Catholic was the closest they came… Or maybe he wasn’t, what are guys that wear the catholic outfit, white collar etc. but it’s a gray suite instead of black?
RightWinged on April 17, 2007 at 3:08 PM
The reports of him chaining the doors shut implies a good deal of premeditation.
I would not be the least bit surprised if he originally applied to the Engineering program and was rejected.
TheBigOldDog on April 17, 2007 at 3:08 PM
Lack of humanity? Where have I displayed any “lack of humanity” where I wasn’t mocking the inhumane nature of people’s previous posts? Unless, of course, you’re assuming again that I feel no compassion for the victims and their families.
Nonfactor on April 17, 2007 at 3:09 PM
Arrrrrgh! I’ve been ’stiked’ ooooooutt!!!!11!1!11eleventy1Heh. Just teasing. I need a little laugh.
Bad Candy on April 17, 2007 at 3:10 PM
Wait and see…you WILL find out.
shooter on April 17, 2007 at 3:10 PM
I read on another site that it was a Lutheran, or one of the other protestant denoms. He was probably the campus protestant chaplain.
Slublog on April 17, 2007 at 3:10 PM
BTW…that’s “denoms” as in “denominations.”
Just looked over it and wondered why I’d written “demons.”
Slublog on April 17, 2007 at 3:11 PM
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