Report: At least 20 29 32 dead, 28 wounded in shooting at Virginia Tech; Update: Chinese man on student visa? Update: Two suspects?

posted at 12:28 pm on April 16, 2007 by Allahpundit

Good lord. I’ve been peeking at this story for hours and until a few minutes ago there was one reported dead and the gunman was in custody. Now the death toll is 22 and the gunman is supposedly dead too.

Standby.

Update: Apparently one of the cops said at the presser that many of the dead were students in classrooms. The gunman had an ammo vest on and was unloading at will.

Update: They think there’s only one shooter, but verrrry odd: “Local FOX affiliate WFXR-TV in Richmond reported that one shooting occurred between 7:15 a.m. and 7:30 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, and another at 10 a.m. at Norris Hall.”

Update: More oddness from Fox: “On April 13, the campus closed three of its academic halls after they received a letter stating that explosive devices were in the building. Classes were canceled for the remainder of the day. A bomb threat was also made against Torgerson Hall on April 2.”

Update: Someone told Fox — purely unconfirmed — that the suspect went into Norris Hall looking for his girlfriend, then lined a bunch of people up and shot them execution-style. The debate at the moment is what kind of weapon he must have had.

Update: The scene at Norris Hall:

vtech.jpg

Update: The press corps is already pushing Dana Perino about gun control. Drudge is pushing the other way.

Update: According to NBC, the killer used two 9mm handguns and killed himself. It’s officially the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history.

Update (Ian): Gun control talk at the WH briefing:


Update: Just got this from a reader who says it was posted on his VTech frat listserv. Grain of salt:

Zach just got back and he told us his story. he can tell u the details better but he deserves to be recognized immediately. He was in norris hall and heard the gunshots comign from down the hall. while others hid in the class room zach got up and got a few others to help him baracade the door with desks. He could hear the gunman coming down the hall opening doors n firing into class rooms. Zach then saw his door handle turn and the gun man tried to get in but zach slammed the door back shut, others then got up to help, trying to hold the door shut with desks. zach then said he heard the the gunman reload a new magazine and fired two shots directly through the door, luckily didnt hit anybody. the gunman then gave up an continued down the hall

Update: 29 now, says ABC News. Now Fox says it’s 32, according to federal sources.

Update: Virginia Tech’s college newspaper is posting bulletins here.

Update: CNN’s got video taken by someone on campus this morning. You can see the cops approaching the building and hear rounds being fired in the background. Apologies for the relatively long commercial; I’ll replace this with an embeddable clip once it pops up on LiveLeak or wherever. Click the image to watch. Update: Okay, replaced it with a video sans commercial.

Update: Thinking on the Margin has a map of the campus and notes that there’s quite a bit of distance between the two scenes of the crimes.

Update: Fox is hearing that the gunman might have chained the doors shut to stop people from escaping.

Update: According to WaPo, this is now the deadliest shooting spree of any kind, on campus or off, in American history. And if Wikipedia is right, it’s already the third worst in modern world history.

Update: It might not be relevant, but the Blotter’s found its angle and it’s sticking to it.

Update: Bush is going to speak at 4:15. I can’t imagine he’ll have anything interesting to say but we’ll have video. Here’s a description of the suspect from NBC and a suggestion that this wasn’t as random as it might seem:

The name of the gunman, whom witnesses described as a young Asian man wearing a maroon cap and a black leather jacket, was not released. It was not known if he was a student.

The man did not appear to be shooting at random, NBC News’ Pete Williams reported, quoting federal law enforcement officials. He appeared to have specifically targeted the two locations, a co-ed dormitory and a classroom in an engineering building.

Update: Drudge just linked to this video at LiveLeak from MSNBC of one of the shooting victims describing the gunman. According to the victim, he emptied a full magazine into the room, hitting between 10 to 15 people.

Update (Ian): A moment of silence in the House:


Update: ABC News is collecting eyewitness reactions. The V Tech administration is in for a world of trouble, it sounds like: “Communication from college? I checked my e-mail about 8:30…I went to my class as I usually would. By 8:30 no one was notified that something had happened at 7. We went onto a dangerous campus not knowing…”

Update (Ian): Obama makes a statement:


Update: More complaints about the university being slow to notify students after the first shooting:

“What happened today this was ridiculous,” student Jason Piatt told CNN. He said the first warning from the university of a shooting on campus came in an e-mail about two hours after the first deadly burst of gunfire. “While they’re sending out that e-mail, 22 more people got killed,” Piatt said.

Update: Dan Riehl‘s following rumors on the V Tech sports bulletin board that the shooter caught his girlfriend in bed with someone and shot both of them. That doesn’t make sense, though; how often do crimes of passion turn into spree killings?

Update: It’s 33 now, according to the president of V Tech.

Update: Dan’s theory makes more sense if you assume that the killer had been dumped recently by his GF and went to her dorm intending to kill her in the first place. In that case he might have planned the rampage beforehand.

Update (Ian): President Bush said the nation is “shocked and saddened” at a 4pm press conference:


Update: NBC is reporting that the first warning to students didn’t go out until the shooting in Norris Hall had begun:

About 9:15, the gunman chained the doors of the classroom building so his potential victims could not escape and police could not enter. Once inside There, he shot more than 50 people in multiple classrooms.

Not until 9:26 a.m. did the first warning to students and employees go out by e-mail, according to the time stamps on copies obtained by NBC News. By then, the shooting was over.

The first e-mail had few details. It said: “A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating.” The message warned students to be cautious and contact police about anything suspicious.

Maurice Hiller, a student, told The Associated Press that he went to a 9 a.m. class just two buildings away from the engineering building and that no warnings were coming over the outdoor public address system on campus at the time.

Update: VTech student Erin Sheehan was in German class when the killer opened the door and “peeked in”:

“It seemed so strange,” Sheehan said. “Because he peaked in twice, earlier in the lesson, like he was looking for someone, somebody, before he started shooting. But then we all heard something like drilling in the walls, and someone thought they sounded like bullets. That’s when we blockaded the door to stop anyone from coming in.”

“He was just a normal looking kid, Asian, but he had on a Boy Scout type outfit. He wore a tan button up vest, and this black vest, maybe it was for ammo or something.”

“I saw bullets hit people’s body,” Sheehan said.

Update: I read somewhere earlier that it’s only a 10 minute walk or so between the dorm and Norris Hall. Where did the killer go between 7:15 and 9?

Update: Why wasn’t the school shut down after the first shooting? “According to Dr. Charles Steger, president of Virginia Tech, the administration locked down Ambler Johnston Hall dormitory after the first shooting. But classes weren’t cancelled because it was believed to be a domestic dispute and campus police thought that the shooter had left the campus.”

Update: Sounds like the cops know who the killer is. The 7:30 press conference is coming up; maybe they’re about to reveal.

Investigators offered no motive for the attack, reports CBS News correspondent Bob Orr. Police have been working on identifying the suspect and say they expect to release the name in the coming hours. When asked if the gunman was a student, police say “something like that,” indicating that perhaps he was a teaching assistant, reports Orr.

Update: The cops are being awfully coy about not linking the first shooting to the second, insisting that they’re waiting for lab tests to come back. The Chicago Sun-Times claims to have a hot tip about the killer’s — or one of the killers’ — ID:

Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said.

Police believe three bomb threats on the campus last week may have been attempts by the man to test the campus’ security response, the source said.

Update: I’m utterly confused by the press conference. The cops claim they were speaking to a “person of interest” in the first shooting, who knew the two victims, when they got the word about the second shooting. They refuse to say whether that person has been ruled out yet.

Update: An interesting tip from reader Michael B. — there was a gun show in Roanoke County this weekend. Says Michael, he could have purchased anything he needed there with minimal background checks.

Update: Via Drudge, the Daily Mail embellishes the caught-in-bed theory: “He was said to have quarrelled in a dormitory with his girlfriend, whom he believed had been seeing another man. A student adviser was called to sort out the row. But the killer produced a gun and shot dead both his girlfriend and the adviser.”

Update: MSNBC says the “person of interest” is cooperating with police, is not in custody, and is not believed to be under suspicion. Federal and state cops all say they think it’s the work of a lone gunman.

Update: Early reports of two 9mm handguns appear to have been wrong. It was one 9mm and one .22.


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Unverified rumor:

http://www.xanga.com/wanusmaximus

That’s supposedly him.

Darth Executor on April 16, 2007 at 7:06 PM

Can’t be him, on his livejournal he sends his prayers to those killed today.

Keljeck on April 16, 2007 at 7:15 PM

Unverified rumor:

http://www.xanga.com/wanusmaximus

That’s supposedly him.

Darth Executor on April 16, 2007 at 7:06 PM

spooky

RobertCSampson on April 16, 2007 at 7:23 PM

But clearly, over any serious length of time, fatalities due to campus shootings are rare events.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 6:39 PM

Clearly

Gregor on April 16, 2007 at 7:25 PM

This guy managed to do just fine with 9mm.

The 9 mm semi-auto is generally regarded as a good weapon for extended fire fights for two reasons. (1) The relatively small size of the ammo allows for a large magazine capacity. (2) Low recoil allows for quick target acquisition. For these reasons, it is the standard issue sidearm for most of the U.S. armed forces. I believe they use Beretta.

RedWinged Blackbird on April 16, 2007 at 7:27 PM

he could easily have blended in with the thousands of other people walking around.

John on April 16, 2007 at 6:58 PM

Yeah. Wearing an ammo vest with two handguns, with police in the area looking for a suspect in the first shooting.

Bogus, bogus, bogus

Gregor on April 16, 2007 at 7:29 PM

Yeah. Wearing an ammo vest with two handguns, with police in the area looking for a suspect in the first shooting.

It was snowing. You put a coat on, and you’re just another kid.

Pablo on April 16, 2007 at 7:33 PM

RedWinged Blackbird on April 16, 2007 at 7:27 PM

Yep. It’s also very reliable, and doesn’t jam much.

Pablo on April 16, 2007 at 7:34 PM

Yep. It’s also very reliable, and doesn’t jam much.

Pablo on April 16, 2007 at 7:34 PM

That depends entirely on the feed mechanism. My point was, for an ineffective caliber, he killed quite a few people.

PRCalDude on April 16, 2007 at 7:36 PM

BadCandy / JadeNYU:

If everyone was as “crazy” as we are, these kind of things just wouldn’t happen. :)

2) It’s refreshing to see how quickly the morally hollow liberals are seeking political advantage from this tragedy. Then again, if you think you have Absolute Rightness and no one should be allowed to argue with you, isn’t taking away other people’s choice and voice the RIGHT thing to do?

3) Yes, Pablo, tons of ignorance about guns here and everywhere. It’s hard to fix a leak when you’re underwater, ignorance being the leak in this case.

I didn’t take the time to pick out the post here, sorry, but there’s always something unmentioned about Whitman and the clock tower shootings – armed civilians with a rifles kept him pinned down while police (and a deputized civilian named Allen Crum) made their way to the tower and killed Whitman.

Police and we poor civilians are properly allies in this kind of situation. People who try to drive a wedge between us need a good smackdown.

Merovign on April 16, 2007 at 7:37 PM

I dont think we should be going through these people’s personal webisites trying to draw out info. Too much risk of rumor spreading that could ruin someone’s life if wrong person

Well, I put unverified rumor there for a reason. I’m hoping you guys are responsible enough not to do anything stupid.

Darth Executor on April 16, 2007 at 7:40 PM

I’m hoping you guys are responsible enough not to do anything stupid.

Darth Executor on April 16, 2007 at 7:40 PM

Like post the guy’s photo on a website as a possible mass murderer?

Gregor on April 16, 2007 at 7:43 PM

My point was, for an ineffective caliber, he killed quite a few people.

Who said it was an ineffective caliber? For its intended application, it can’t be beat. It’s generally regarded as ineffective for a home/self defense weapon. In that case, you want maximum stopping power. Magazine capacity and target acquisition are less important.

RedWinged Blackbird on April 16, 2007 at 7:44 PM

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this:

Even though it seems to be a ‘consensus’ (for whatever that is worth) that the guy was carrying two 9mm pistols and a .22 pistol, or maybe one 9 and one 22. Yet I have heard several of the “Experts” on the news (not on scene: consultants) saying that he was carrying ‘automatic weapons’ and even one saying “fully automatic assult weapons”. You would think that these cops and ex-cops would know the difference.
————————————————–
That said, I was, a few decades ago, a damn good combat pistol shooter (real world, not IPSC type competitive range shooting). As good as I was, I just can’t picture me being able to achieve such a kill ratio, even against an unarmed crowd. So, either engineering students in general have become as sheep-like as liberal arts students, or this guy had a lot of training, was dang good at it and lucky as heck. Or better armed than is believed by officers and civilians on scene.

I won’t fault the general populace of the engineering building for not tackling the guy, but I’m honestly surprised there wasn’t one or more ‘foolhardy’ individuals around with a ‘Let’s Roll’ attitude.

Well, maybe there was, and maybe we will eventually hear about it.

But I also have a feeling that if there is anything at all beyond a ‘demented boyfriend’ or ‘unstable NRA member’ aspect to this atrocity, that it is likely we will never be told the whole truth.

LegendHasIt on April 16, 2007 at 7:47 PM

PR Cal Dude,

My point was, for an ineffective caliber, he killed quite a few people.

Certainly not at the range he was shooting from. As RWB mentioned, it’s the regulation sidearm for most of the US armed forces. It’s no elephant gun, but I wouldn’t call it ineffective. And this loon just demonstrated its efficacy.

Pablo on April 16, 2007 at 7:49 PM

Police: The first shooter has not been captured or shot.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 7:51 PM

Like post the guy’s photo on a website as a possible mass murderer?

My source was fairly reliable. I wouldn’t have posted it otherwise. What do you think I did, went around looking for some random kid to blame for the hell of it?

Darth Executor on April 16, 2007 at 7:52 PM

I remember after the Beslan massacre my daughter asking me that if something like that happened at her school would I be there with my rifle. The simple answer was yes and that did more to alay her fears then all of the talk from security experts or counselors could ever do.

LakeRuins on April 16, 2007 at 7:52 PM

Police: The first shooter has not been captured or shot.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 7:51 PM

There were two shooters?

Darth Executor on April 16, 2007 at 7:54 PM

That’s what Fox News is reporting, or was a few moments ago.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 7:55 PM

The criticism of the university for not sending a notification faster seems to be unwarranted. I can’t imagine anyone would think that a single incidence of one person being shot in a dorm would turn into a Columbine. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that

sweetlipsbutterhoney on April 16, 2007 at 6:21 PM

You don’t think it was warranted? Someone just shot two people and was on the loose, possibly still on campus and could possibly take hostages and kill more if backed into a corner? No I doubt they anticipated mass murder but the least they could have anticipated was a hostage situation. The least they could have done was post police at the vehicle entrances and send the walkers back to their dorms. The least. But nooo they wanted to save their reps and continue status quo as if nothing unusual happened. That’s bullshit.

Now if only they would release that asshole’s name so we know where to appropriately direct our outrage. My guess is its some foreigner on a student visa or som VIP’s kid.

frreal on April 16, 2007 at 7:55 PM

There were two shootings. It has not been determined yet if there were two shooters. I would think it would be a simple matter to take the slugs from scene #1 and do a rough compare to slugs from scene #2 and narrow that down.
If they are of different calibers then yes there is still a second shooter possibly.

LakeRuins on April 16, 2007 at 7:56 PM

The officer just said it again. There is another “person of interest” who is not in custody.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 7:56 PM

BTW any word from the Duke 88 on this matter?

LakeRuins on April 16, 2007 at 7:57 PM

A Chinese national?

What. The. F?

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 7:57 PM

Police are not releasing the killer’s name yet.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 7:57 PM

Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

Ahhhh! Isn’t diversity grand?

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 7:58 PM

Rumor is that the dude broke up with his GF and went rampant. Making this political with so little info is a bad idea.

Darth Executor on April 16, 2007 at 7:58 PM

I had three things to say, but I’ve already forgotten one of them, so two things:

1) I know it’s going to happen, but it’s sad to think the media is going to let everyone know who did this. Which, let’s face it, is what they (them?) wanted

2) From the gunshots I’ve heard on tape, that doesn’t sound like a 9mm or at least a pistol round. Unless it’s a really big pistol with a really long barrel. I’m not an ordanance expert, mind, but that seriously did not sound like any sort of pistol that I’ve heard over the years..

Reaps on April 16, 2007 at 7:59 PM

Maybe upset over the Imus firing, or inspired by rap lyrics.
/I need my own cable show

LakeRuins on April 16, 2007 at 8:00 PM

..and yes, Tommy. wtf. Would it make you feel better if it was a white guy doing it? Or do you just have really poor comic timing?

Reaps on April 16, 2007 at 8:00 PM

The criticism of the university for not sending a notification faster seems to be unwarranted. I can’t imagine anyone would think that a single incidence of one person being shot in a dorm would turn into a Columbine. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that

sweetlipsbutterhoney on April 16, 2007 at 6:21 PM

You think criticism is unwarrented? Gunman who just killed 2 people on the loose leading to a potential hostage situation doesn’t warrent a school shutdown. At the least they should have posted patrol cars at the vehicle entrances and sent the walkers back to their dorms. But reputation was more important that missing a day of school I guess.

Why they haven’t released this info is its some foreigner on a student visa or its some VIP’s kid or perhaps both. Either way its time to give us focus for our outrage.

frreal on April 16, 2007 at 8:01 PM

The tallest man in the world (alive) is a 7+ foot tall guy in China.

I worked with a Japanese kid (well, his parents were Japanese immigrants, he was born and raised in the US) that was 6′4″. He said that a lot of Japanese people that are descended from Samurai are actually very tall.

I’ve heard there is some genetic evidence that the samurai class in Japan may have been descended from the Ainu who lived there prior to the invasion of typical Northeast Asians. The Japanese are still a bit shorter than the average white American, but the disparity isn’t huge. The tallest man in the world is not actually ethnically Chinese, but Mongolian.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 8:04 PM

Yes, it’s still not very clear, but in the end I thought the police chief did say that the shooter was NOT a student.

Topsecretk9 on April 16, 2007 at 8:08 PM

1) I know it’s going to happen, but it’s sad to think the media is going to let everyone know who did this. Which, let’s face it, is what they (them?) wanted

So you think it should be kept secret?

2) From the gunshots I’ve heard on tape, that doesn’t sound like a 9mm or at least a pistol round. Unless it’s a really big pistol with a really long barrel. I’m not an ordanance expert, mind, but that seriously did not sound like any sort of pistol that I’ve heard over the years..

I assume you meant a really big pistol with a really short barrel. A long barrel will tend to muffle the sound.

RedWinged Blackbird on April 16, 2007 at 8:10 PM

..and yes, Tommy. wtf. Would it make you feel better if it was a white guy doing it? Or do you just have really poor comic timing?

No it wouldn’t. But when you consider that we’ve had previous campus atrocities in the U.S. and Canada committed by an ethnic Algerian (Montreal) and a Nigerian national (the Appalachian shootings), and that the 9/11 hijackers largely arrived here on student visas, you would think we would reconsider the wisdom of bringing in students from foreign countries.

Hell, Bush has been cool with more Saudi students coming to the United States in recent years on student visas even after 9/11:

According to President Bush, American soldiers are bleeding in the sands of Iraq because, if we leave, the terrorists will follow us back home. Yet, none of the 19 hijackers who murdered almost 3,000 Americans on 9/11 were Iraqis. Fifteen of them, however, were Saudis. And while the administration continues to squander American lives and treasure in Iraq (to prevent the terrorists from coming back to the US), he has opened the door for Saudi students to come to America by the thousand….

Why do we subject our country to these nutjobs who simply cannot relate to our values? Why do we risk more bloodshed than is necessary for the sake of diversity?

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 8:13 PM

I dunno I read that website. That kid is clearly into guns and mentions the breakup with his gf.

Also he has lots of references to “Rough Sex” and he says he watched a video over a hundred times showing a young girl say over and over agian “We hate fn “N” (racist words for blacks)

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 8:14 PM

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 8:14 PM

You can probably find another thousand guys just like him on the net..does not really mean anything.

EnochCain on April 16, 2007 at 8:16 PM

Latest on abcnews.com:

A tranquil college campus in Virgina became a killing field Monday morning.

Thought I’d bring a little levity, considering the NIT “West Virgina” blooper of a few weeks ago. Looks like spelling is not a strong suit in this country. :/

nukemhill on April 16, 2007 at 8:18 PM

Also from the blog

On behalf of the Graduate School of Virginia Tech, I am pleased to inform you that based upon the recommendation of the Information Technology Faculty, we can offer you admission for the Master of Information Technology for Fall Semester 2007. Congratualations!

blah, blah, blah.

Sincerely,

Karen P. DePauw, PhD.
Vice Provost for Graduate Studies
and Dean of the Graduate School

guess I’m going back for more hell.

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 8:19 PM

If he came in on a J-visa, I might be able to track him down.

nukemhill on April 16, 2007 at 8:20 PM

What to do now? Here’s a CCW link. Who’s coming with me?

Buck Turgidson on April 16, 2007 at 5:34 PM

Been there a long time my friend, its about you joined the rest of us, welcome aboard

Viper1 on April 16, 2007 at 8:21 PM

Update: Dan Riehl’s following rumors on the V Tech sports bulletin board that the shooter caught his girlfriend in bed with someone and shot both of them. That doesn’t make sense, though; how often do crimes of passion turn into spree killings?

If he stalked them Sunday evening, knew where they would be at 7:30 AM, he had all night to plot and prepare. They weren’t in the back seat of a car on saturday night – they were sleeping. It does make sense. Premeditated crime of passion. What would be strange, though unlikely at this point, is the muslim non- jihad mass killing scenario.

Buck Turgidson on April 16, 2007 at 8:22 PM

Somre more coments off there

Guy on page “Me & Janice broke up…”

Another person “that picture is yucky!
how have you been?”

Guy “I’ve been not so good, but such is the nature of life and relationships. Get married yet?”

Other Person “not yet, in August…why you wanna be my boy-toy fling, auntie can teach you all about…ummm being mean, no you seem to have a good grasp of that…white ladies, there we go I can teach you all about the “ways of the whites”…”

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 8:23 PM

Apparently the cops are searching cars near the scene.

nukemhill on April 16, 2007 at 8:23 PM

Ut oh !!! I removed the names but

Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: #8

Make sure you show no mercy and kill them ALL

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 8:26 PM

The above wasw related so some feild mice he had found darn it

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 8:28 PM

I told this very sweet Indian couple that I was a fluffer for porn movies. They didn’t know what a fluffer was, so I told them to ask their daughter, she’d know. I told one of the bridesmaids that I was a freelance dog and cat euthanizer for local animal shelters. I thought she was going to cry. Hey, someone has to do it, right? I tried to console her by telling her that I only made the ugly dogs and cats suffer, and I killed the cute ones quickly. I explained that it all depended on how far away from their skull you held the gun. I didn’t see her at the reception after that. Whatever; if she can’t take a joke,

Some more stuff off there

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 8:42 PM

Just to clarify the two shooters comment above… The police are being very coy, and I think that’s causing confusion.

The officer being interviewed said that the person of interest is someone who knows the shooter, not necessarily another shooter. He also said something about witnesses’ descriptions being different in the two locations. If they would stop playing cute and answer the questions more forthrightly there wouldn’t be so much confusion.

Sensible Mom on April 16, 2007 at 8:46 PM

Amos,

That’s a quote from the Tucker Max web site.

Simmer down. They guy is a total gun nut to the extreme — I like guns, this guy LOVES guns. No reason to smear him until they release the identity, though.

mesablue on April 16, 2007 at 8:47 PM

This is the most violent criminal rampage in modern US history? How soon we forget Janet Reno, and that involved kids as well.

Coronagold on April 16, 2007 at 8:51 PM

I agree mesa I have no clue if this is just ranting or what. We dont even know if there is one or two guys out there

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 8:51 PM

It takes time. We had to send out 36,000 e-mails. What, they send them out one at a time?

oakpack on April 16, 2007 at 5:14 PM

I’m assisting my Emergency Manager with trying to set up a global notification for our intranet. According to our server section, a single global message would take 15 minutes to hit all 1300 workstations. It all depends on bandwidth.

Catseye on April 16, 2007 at 8:54 PM

Some actual news from the Sun Times

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/343354,vatech041607.article

April 16, 2007
BY MICHAEL SNEED Sun-Times Columnist
Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said.

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 8:57 PM

That guy quotes Ann Coulter non-ironically on his livejournal, so don’t hope too hard that it’s him.

Tanya on April 16, 2007 at 8:57 PM

That guy quotes Ann Coulter non-ironically on his livejournal, so don’t hope too hard that it’s him.

We’ve been tracking that page for hours. Literally since about 4 p.m. We were on the verge of posting the link at around 6:30 — when he updated the page to say he’s not the shooter and posted a screencap of his traffic, which has been flooding in from Something Awful. He’s since taken that post down, but unless someone’s hacked into his account and is messing with his page, he’s not the shooter.

Allahpundit on April 16, 2007 at 9:04 PM

So you think it should be kept secret?

Well, as I said, there’s no way that’s going to happen, but let’s put it this way; every Australian knows the name of Martin Bryant. I just quite liked Margaret Thatcher’s idea of not giving criminals or terrorists any cred by splashing their name over the papers.

I assume you meant a really big pistol with a really short barrel. A long barrel will tend to muffle the sound.

Good point, but from what I’ve heard usually a longer barrel gives that ‘follow-through’ sound you don’t get from the ‘pop-pop’ pistol variety. Let’s just say that the cartridge didn’t sound like it was of the smaller variety, anyway

Tommy also makes his point seem slightly more sensible. That being said, As a New Zealand-born Australian coming to America to work for a few months later this year, should I not be allowed to come over because maybe, just MAYBE I’ll go on a shooting rampage? It’s ridiculous. Ragging on people from other nations because you reckon they don’t share the ‘same values’ as Americans is just..

Or should we take a ‘values’ exam before being allowed into the country? I think half the American populace would fail that..

Reaps on April 16, 2007 at 9:06 PM

Fox News has the big guns there Giraldo of cause and of cause Greta. This all should be interesting.

StuLongIsland on April 16, 2007 at 9:08 PM

Says Michael, he could have purchased anything he needed there with minimal background checks.

Cue the litany of post hoc ergo propter hoc arguments in 5..4..3..

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 9:09 PM

There’s nothing unusual about the sound of the gunshots coming across an unknown number of obstacles with unknown refractive surfaces from inside a building through an unknown number of openings of unknown shape.

Not to mention the model of gun is unknown, they type of ammunition and gunpowder… let’s see, what else can affect that… relative humidity? Age of ammunition?

In other words, it’s a completely meaningless point of data.

Merovign on April 16, 2007 at 9:11 PM

I forgot to mention the type of microphone and any post-processing on the video, and the compression codec.

Merovign on April 16, 2007 at 9:12 PM

unless someone’s hacked into his account and is messing with his page, he’s not the shooter.

Good! He’s cute (in a nearly-young-enough-to-be-my-son way) and has good taste in guns. Besides, we don’t need that damage right now.

Tanya on April 16, 2007 at 9:18 PM

Or should we take a ‘values’ exam before being allowed into the country? I think half the American populace would fail that..

No argument there. I’d gladly trade them for an equal number of Australians. Welcome to America, mate.

RedWinged Blackbird on April 16, 2007 at 9:19 PM

Ragging on people from other nations because you reckon they don’t share the ’same values’ as Americans is just..

Or should we take a ‘values’ exam before being allowed into the country? I think half the American populace would fail that..

Reaps on April 16, 2007 at 9:06 PM

If you have a bad attitude about America, why are you coming here in the first place, Reaps, to study? Stay in Australia. That is the main problem right now. We have this Chinese guy that we welcomed into the country, and he hates America so much he professionally shoots and kills 32 students. What American was rejected from the engineering program at Tech for this foreigner from a country hostile to the United States?

januarius on April 16, 2007 at 9:27 PM

Actually, a few more questions:

- FNC showed one scene where three different officers were entering the building – all in what appeared to be body armour/riot gear, but all three in distinctly different uniform. Can anyone identify which agencies were being represented there? One in green, one in brown, one in.. blue, I think. And the cop who decided to jump in at the end of the video, too..

- How on earth did a student wind up being able to grab some guns that easily in the first place? Yes, that could be interpreted as a gun control argument, but what I’m asking is that, as someone on a work or extended tourist visa, surely there should be a little more effort put into checking people out. Then again, if the guy just ‘snapped’ due to his gf and went on a shooting spree, perhaps it wouldn’t have mattered. Then again (again), it’s hard to believe that these things just ‘happen’ and that people ‘just snap’

Reaps on April 16, 2007 at 9:28 PM

All it would have taken to put a stop to this is one armed student, or teacher, or staff member. Just one!

Woody

woodcdi on April 16, 2007 at 9:28 PM

Can a person with a student visa acquire all that ammo or guns? Legally at a gun show?

CrimsonFisted on April 16, 2007 at 9:32 PM

Tommy also makes his point seem slightly more sensible. That being said, As a New Zealand-born Australian coming to America to work for a few months later this year, should I not be allowed to come over because maybe, just MAYBE I’ll go on a shooting rampage? It’s ridiculous. Ragging on people from other nations because you reckon they don’t share the ’same values’ as Americans is just..

Meanwhile, at a university closer to home, an illegal alien from the United Kingdom has shot a University of Washington professor dead in spite of the fact that he should have been deported after a drunk driving offense. (You can’t thank Seattle’s sanctuary laws that he wasn’t.)

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 9:32 PM

Typo: You can thank Seattle’s sanctuary laws that he wasn’t.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 9:33 PM

If you have a bad attitude about America, why are you coming here in the first place, Reaps, to study? Stay in Australia. That is the main problem right now. We have this Chinese guy that we welcomed into the country, and he hates America so much he professionally shoots and kills 32 students.

That’s unfair,januarius. In the first place, Australia is not ‘hostile’ to the United States. In the second place, we don’t know the motives of the shooter.

RedWinged Blackbird on April 16, 2007 at 9:34 PM

If you have a bad attitude about America, why are you coming here in the first place, Reaps, to study? Stay in Australia.

Thanks.

Clearly I have a bad attitude about America, which is why I post here, why I argue in favour of both America and Israel, why I drive an American car, and why I have volunteered to work over there.

Watch out Jan, I might just shoot someone.

Good god.

Bad attitude my arse. You quote me raising concern over people slagging off others because they reckon they might not have the ‘same values’ as ‘America’ (whuh?), and then proceed to… slag me off for having a ‘bad attitude’ towards America. Well done.

Probably without realising it, you’ve raised another interesting point; do you really reckon this guy came to the United States with a HATRED for America and planned to kill 32-odd people because he HATES AMERICA?

I’d also be interested to know if foreign students get charged higher fees to study at campus than American students do..

Reaps on April 16, 2007 at 9:36 PM

How on earth did a student wind up being able to grab some guns that easily in the first place?

It’s actually easier to buy a stolen gun illegally in from some punk on the street, than to buy one legally.

As for the cops, you had campus security, local cops, and state police, who were all on campus from the earlier shooting.

Anyone else notice how out of shape a lot of those cops were? I kept seeing one clip where four of them are carrying a wounded kid, and they look like they are going to pass out, not to mention possible making the wounds worse…
Kids can’t carry a weapon, but those fat asses are going to protect anyone? Hell, even a taser or pepper spray might have helped out.

reaganaut on April 16, 2007 at 9:37 PM

Blackbird sums it up quicker than I did.

Think I’ll bail for a bit anyway; I’d like to think half of these comments are being made mainly due to the emotional immediacy of the incident as opposed to a genuine ‘foreigners get out!’ attitude

Reaps on April 16, 2007 at 9:39 PM

I’d also be interested to know if foreign students get charged higher fees to study at campus than American students do..

Reaps on April 16, 2007 at 9:36 PM

Can’t speak for all schools. My understanding at state schools is that there are in-state fees for state residents. Everyone else (including foreign students) gets charged at the out-of-state rate.

Now, at NYU, I had a roommate from India. She said that foreign students got charged the exact same rate as the rest of us (Private school, so no such thing as ‘in-state’ discounts); however, they weren’t eligible for any of the student aid EXCEPT one special scholarship for foreign students that was awarded to about 10 foreign students out of the thousands studying at NYU.

Also, they aren’t eligible for any of the Federal student aid, though some of their home countries will provide student aid for students studying abroad.

JadeNYU on April 16, 2007 at 9:40 PM

Another example of the harm that can come from allowing people who don’t relate to us into our country: Sayyid Qutb, who went on to become the chief intellectual of the Muslim brotherhood was disgusted by American morals and became a Muslim radical after attending (get this) a church dance in Colorado in the 1940s.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 9:41 PM

One more..

That was the third question I had, reaganaut; I just hope most of those ‘cops’ were campus security as opposed to being representative of the state’s finest..

Reaps on April 16, 2007 at 9:41 PM

RedWinged Blackbird- I don’t care if he is from Australia; he, himself, seems to have a bad attitude towards America with his “ragging on other nations” comment. That is just bad form. You don’t criticize the country and people that are going to let you into their country as a guest.

That’s our main problem right now; we have much of the world thinking it is their right to enter our country.

januarius on April 16, 2007 at 9:42 PM

This incident should be compared to the U. Texas campus tower incident in 1966. That brain cancer-deranged shooter was shot by a combination of police and fellow students who pulled rifles out of their car trunks and began firing back in self-defense. If there were no armed students on the UTx campus in 1966, the death toll would have been higher as the shooter in the tower had a commanding vantage point of the entire campus.

chsw

chsw on April 16, 2007 at 9:48 PM

You don’t criticize the country and people that are going to let you into their country as a guest.

Huh? That’s just stupid. If you are visiting here, you are only allowed to say nice things? Brilliant.

You’re starting to wear a little thin, januarius. You’re attitude seems to be “my way or the highway.” You don’t seem to be able to handle differing opinions very well.

You need to grow up a little bit.

nukemhill on April 16, 2007 at 9:51 PM

Blackbird sums it up quicker than I did.

Think I’ll bail for a bit anyway; I’d like to think half of these comments are being made mainly due to the emotional immediacy of the incident as opposed to a genuine ‘foreigners get out!’ attitude

That’s about the size of it, I think. A lot of folks here are confusing patriotism with isolationism. I’m sure you’ll enjoy your time here, especially if you have an Australian accent. Most Americans dig that. It’s a Crocodile Dundee thing.

RedWinged Blackbird on April 16, 2007 at 9:52 PM

Probably without realising it, you’ve raised another interesting point; do you really reckon this guy came to the United States with a HATRED for America and planned to kill 32-odd people because he HATES AMERICA?

I’d also be interested to know if foreign students get charged higher fees to study at campus than American students do..

Reaps on April 16, 2007 at 9:36 PM

Reaps- I think he probably came to America with a hatred of Americans and America but came for the degree. I can’t imagine that someone who would like America would methodically design to kill dozens of Americans with military precision. He evidently trained for this and tested security with bomb threats. We really need to question what we are gaining by letting so many people from hostile countries–China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc–study in our country. What do we gain from it?

International students are charged out-of-state tuition.

januarius on April 16, 2007 at 9:52 PM

it’s the regulation sidearm for most of the US armed forces

It may be regulation, but it’s only a back-up weapon, a last resort weapon.

What is surprising is the killed/wounded ratio. He wasn’t just firing at random into a mass of people, these were well aimed shots at fairly close range….

reaganaut on April 16, 2007 at 9:53 PM

That was the third question I had, reaganaut; I just hope most of those ‘cops’ were campus security as opposed to being representative of the state’s finest..

Yep, I just found the picture I was thinking about – looks like 3 different unis and one in plain clothes. I hate to harp, but man, that is pathetic….

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,1642,00.html#6_0

reaganaut on April 16, 2007 at 9:57 PM

Whats with Obama grandstanding at a time like this. He compounds his error with a seeming cold response to the tragedy. He sounds like he has foreknowlege of much worse things to come.

sonnyspats1 on April 16, 2007 at 9:59 PM

Anyone else notice how out of shape a lot of those cops were?

Yeah, I noticed a lot of bellies hanging over belts in the news footage.

Lehuster on April 16, 2007 at 9:59 PM

Whats with Obama grandstanding at a time like this. He compounds his error with a seeming cold response to the tragedy. He sounds like he has foreknowlege of much worse things to come.

sonnyspats1 on April 16, 2007 at 9:59 PM

The usual….waiting for the polls and op-eds to decide where he stands.

Limerick on April 16, 2007 at 10:00 PM

I hope it also isnt that kid on that page. If so we are going to get hammered because of him.

From his site I got this. He talks about a lot of heavy drug use.

He also speculates that he is slipping into psycosis. That he can no longer tell relatity from fantasy. He sees everyone else as zombies and that he is slowly becoming a zombie.

He freaks out about strange things happening to his body. He believe that he was a down baby and that his mind was slipping.

He was also ROTC trained it seemed. He talks about taking target practic at Quantico.

Finally the really bad part. It seems he caught his GF with a black guy. And he equated black buys with muslims. His last few pages were quoting Ann Coulter about killing all the Muslims.

He veiwed whites as liberal enablers of blacks and muslims and as causing the muslims to take over.

He is one screwed up Kid unfortunately

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 10:04 PM

Nukemhill- You are the one with the intolerant attitude right now. So you think we should keep on letting everyone into our country, be it if they like our country or hate it?

Debbie Schlussel says it best in her latest post:

So, the perpetrator of the Virginia Tech massacre is a Chinese national here on a student visa. And, today, this alien did “the job that Americans just won’t do.”

Remember that the next time you hear President Bush and Condi Clueless waxing lyrical about how we need more foreign students in America. We do not. Remember the Mana Saleh Almanajam and Shaker Mohsen Alsidran, two Saudi students in Tampa, last year, who hijacked a school bus full of kids while wearing trench coats in 90-plus degree weather?

The whole post is at http://www.debbieschlussel.com

She is dead-on correct when she says:

* Will this make America more vigilant in who it accepts as foreign students and less eager to take in these nationals–site and background virtually unseen?

Yet we have Nukemhill defending those who disagree with America’s ideals coming here to work, study, and become citizens.

januarius on April 16, 2007 at 10:05 PM

About the whole kill ratio thing . . . don’t asume that he shot each only once.

- The Cat

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 10:08 PM

when he updated the page to say he’s not the shooter and posted a screencap of his traffic, which has been flooding in from Something Awful.

Thank god Im glad to hear that

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 10:09 PM

It may be regulation, but it’s only a back-up weapon, a last resort weapon.

Actually, I’ve heard just the opposite. The M-16 is so unreliable that a lot of service personnel will toss it in a fire fight and use the Beretta.

What is surprising is the killed/wounded ratio. He wasn’t just firing at random into a mass of people, these were well aimed shots at fairly close range…

Exactly.

RedWinged Blackbird on April 16, 2007 at 10:10 PM

Actually, I’ve heard just the opposite. The M-16 is so unreliable that a lot of service personnel will toss it in a fire fight and use the Beretta.

Keep an M-16 (or an M4) clean and it isn’t unreliable at all. In my years in the Army, I can say that problems occur about at a rate of about one for every few thousand rounds and all of them were problems that could be cleared within seconds. Certainly, there is a fair argument about whether the M-16′s 5.56mm round is too anemic for an assault rifle, but only a fool would ditch an M-16 in favor of a pistol.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 10:16 PM

Yeah, a pistol in a firefight against people using assault rifles does not sound like a good idea.

EnochCain on April 16, 2007 at 10:17 PM

2) It’s refreshing to see how quickly the morally hollow liberals are seeking political advantage from this tragedy. Then again, if you think you have Absolute Rightness and no one should be allowed to argue with you, isn’t taking away other people’s choice and voice the RIGHT thing to do?

If the left tries to offer the Absolute Moral Authority Card (TM) to people that have been effected by school shootings, I’ll gladly take mine and tell them to go bugger themselves sideways.

Bad Candy on April 16, 2007 at 10:24 PM

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