Report: At least 20 29 32 dead, 28 wounded in shooting at Virginia Tech; Update: Chinese man on student visa? Update: Two suspects?

posted at 12:28 pm on April 16, 2007 by Allahpundit

Good lord. I’ve been peeking at this story for hours and until a few minutes ago there was one reported dead and the gunman was in custody. Now the death toll is 22 and the gunman is supposedly dead too.

Standby.

Update: Apparently one of the cops said at the presser that many of the dead were students in classrooms. The gunman had an ammo vest on and was unloading at will.

Update: They think there’s only one shooter, but verrrry odd: “Local FOX affiliate WFXR-TV in Richmond reported that one shooting occurred between 7:15 a.m. and 7:30 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, and another at 10 a.m. at Norris Hall.”

Update: More oddness from Fox: “On April 13, the campus closed three of its academic halls after they received a letter stating that explosive devices were in the building. Classes were canceled for the remainder of the day. A bomb threat was also made against Torgerson Hall on April 2.”

Update: Someone told Fox — purely unconfirmed — that the suspect went into Norris Hall looking for his girlfriend, then lined a bunch of people up and shot them execution-style. The debate at the moment is what kind of weapon he must have had.

Update: The scene at Norris Hall:

vtech.jpg

Update: The press corps is already pushing Dana Perino about gun control. Drudge is pushing the other way.

Update: According to NBC, the killer used two 9mm handguns and killed himself. It’s officially the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history.

Update (Ian): Gun control talk at the WH briefing:


Update: Just got this from a reader who says it was posted on his VTech frat listserv. Grain of salt:

Zach just got back and he told us his story. he can tell u the details better but he deserves to be recognized immediately. He was in norris hall and heard the gunshots comign from down the hall. while others hid in the class room zach got up and got a few others to help him baracade the door with desks. He could hear the gunman coming down the hall opening doors n firing into class rooms. Zach then saw his door handle turn and the gun man tried to get in but zach slammed the door back shut, others then got up to help, trying to hold the door shut with desks. zach then said he heard the the gunman reload a new magazine and fired two shots directly through the door, luckily didnt hit anybody. the gunman then gave up an continued down the hall

Update: 29 now, says ABC News. Now Fox says it’s 32, according to federal sources.

Update: Virginia Tech’s college newspaper is posting bulletins here.

Update: CNN’s got video taken by someone on campus this morning. You can see the cops approaching the building and hear rounds being fired in the background. Apologies for the relatively long commercial; I’ll replace this with an embeddable clip once it pops up on LiveLeak or wherever. Click the image to watch. Update: Okay, replaced it with a video sans commercial.

Update: Thinking on the Margin has a map of the campus and notes that there’s quite a bit of distance between the two scenes of the crimes.

Update: Fox is hearing that the gunman might have chained the doors shut to stop people from escaping.

Update: According to WaPo, this is now the deadliest shooting spree of any kind, on campus or off, in American history. And if Wikipedia is right, it’s already the third worst in modern world history.

Update: It might not be relevant, but the Blotter’s found its angle and it’s sticking to it.

Update: Bush is going to speak at 4:15. I can’t imagine he’ll have anything interesting to say but we’ll have video. Here’s a description of the suspect from NBC and a suggestion that this wasn’t as random as it might seem:

The name of the gunman, whom witnesses described as a young Asian man wearing a maroon cap and a black leather jacket, was not released. It was not known if he was a student.

The man did not appear to be shooting at random, NBC News’ Pete Williams reported, quoting federal law enforcement officials. He appeared to have specifically targeted the two locations, a co-ed dormitory and a classroom in an engineering building.

Update: Drudge just linked to this video at LiveLeak from MSNBC of one of the shooting victims describing the gunman. According to the victim, he emptied a full magazine into the room, hitting between 10 to 15 people.

Update (Ian): A moment of silence in the House:


Update: ABC News is collecting eyewitness reactions. The V Tech administration is in for a world of trouble, it sounds like: “Communication from college? I checked my e-mail about 8:30…I went to my class as I usually would. By 8:30 no one was notified that something had happened at 7. We went onto a dangerous campus not knowing…”

Update (Ian): Obama makes a statement:


Update: More complaints about the university being slow to notify students after the first shooting:

“What happened today this was ridiculous,” student Jason Piatt told CNN. He said the first warning from the university of a shooting on campus came in an e-mail about two hours after the first deadly burst of gunfire. “While they’re sending out that e-mail, 22 more people got killed,” Piatt said.

Update: Dan Riehl‘s following rumors on the V Tech sports bulletin board that the shooter caught his girlfriend in bed with someone and shot both of them. That doesn’t make sense, though; how often do crimes of passion turn into spree killings?

Update: It’s 33 now, according to the president of V Tech.

Update: Dan’s theory makes more sense if you assume that the killer had been dumped recently by his GF and went to her dorm intending to kill her in the first place. In that case he might have planned the rampage beforehand.

Update (Ian): President Bush said the nation is “shocked and saddened” at a 4pm press conference:


Update: NBC is reporting that the first warning to students didn’t go out until the shooting in Norris Hall had begun:

About 9:15, the gunman chained the doors of the classroom building so his potential victims could not escape and police could not enter. Once inside There, he shot more than 50 people in multiple classrooms.

Not until 9:26 a.m. did the first warning to students and employees go out by e-mail, according to the time stamps on copies obtained by NBC News. By then, the shooting was over.

The first e-mail had few details. It said: “A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating.” The message warned students to be cautious and contact police about anything suspicious.

Maurice Hiller, a student, told The Associated Press that he went to a 9 a.m. class just two buildings away from the engineering building and that no warnings were coming over the outdoor public address system on campus at the time.

Update: VTech student Erin Sheehan was in German class when the killer opened the door and “peeked in”:

“It seemed so strange,” Sheehan said. “Because he peaked in twice, earlier in the lesson, like he was looking for someone, somebody, before he started shooting. But then we all heard something like drilling in the walls, and someone thought they sounded like bullets. That’s when we blockaded the door to stop anyone from coming in.”

“He was just a normal looking kid, Asian, but he had on a Boy Scout type outfit. He wore a tan button up vest, and this black vest, maybe it was for ammo or something.”

“I saw bullets hit people’s body,” Sheehan said.

Update: I read somewhere earlier that it’s only a 10 minute walk or so between the dorm and Norris Hall. Where did the killer go between 7:15 and 9?

Update: Why wasn’t the school shut down after the first shooting? “According to Dr. Charles Steger, president of Virginia Tech, the administration locked down Ambler Johnston Hall dormitory after the first shooting. But classes weren’t cancelled because it was believed to be a domestic dispute and campus police thought that the shooter had left the campus.”

Update: Sounds like the cops know who the killer is. The 7:30 press conference is coming up; maybe they’re about to reveal.

Investigators offered no motive for the attack, reports CBS News correspondent Bob Orr. Police have been working on identifying the suspect and say they expect to release the name in the coming hours. When asked if the gunman was a student, police say “something like that,” indicating that perhaps he was a teaching assistant, reports Orr.

Update: The cops are being awfully coy about not linking the first shooting to the second, insisting that they’re waiting for lab tests to come back. The Chicago Sun-Times claims to have a hot tip about the killer’s — or one of the killers’ — ID:

Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said.

Police believe three bomb threats on the campus last week may have been attempts by the man to test the campus’ security response, the source said.

Update: I’m utterly confused by the press conference. The cops claim they were speaking to a “person of interest” in the first shooting, who knew the two victims, when they got the word about the second shooting. They refuse to say whether that person has been ruled out yet.

Update: An interesting tip from reader Michael B. — there was a gun show in Roanoke County this weekend. Says Michael, he could have purchased anything he needed there with minimal background checks.

Update: Via Drudge, the Daily Mail embellishes the caught-in-bed theory: “He was said to have quarrelled in a dormitory with his girlfriend, whom he believed had been seeing another man. A student adviser was called to sort out the row. But the killer produced a gun and shot dead both his girlfriend and the adviser.”

Update: MSNBC says the “person of interest” is cooperating with police, is not in custody, and is not believed to be under suspicion. Federal and state cops all say they think it’s the work of a lone gunman.

Update: Early reports of two 9mm handguns appear to have been wrong. It was one 9mm and one .22.


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Fundi Muslims are very, very strict about any sort of pre-marital relationship, not matter how innocent, with the opposite sex. Even being alone with a woman who is not a family member is considered haram by most strict Muslims.

In reality, that standard applies only to Muslim females. A Muslim male can do whatever he pleases with (or to) an infidel female. I believe there is even a provision in sharia for one-night marriages.

RedWinged Blackbird on April 16, 2007 at 4:27 PM

Visit a strip club here in the Detroit area and you’ll see a lot of things that are not understandable. Sure, these are ‘americanized’ muslims, but they sure over-represent.

mesablue on April 16, 2007 at 4:20 PM

Well it’s like someone who used to be a friend of the family (until she and her immediate family went wahhabist on us) used to say. But all men cheat and Everybody does it in responce to hearing from my Grandmother that my Grandfather never cheated on her. And we’ll not even go over how in some muslim countries they even had gay festivals and things. Kinda like their version of Fat Tuesday or Carnival. Which of course all affronts to thier perspective religions.

- The Cat

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 4:27 PM

That doesn’t make sense, though; how often do crimes of passion turn into spree killings?

Very wild and almost certainly incorrect specualation not to be taken as anything but: When you are Hmong and you are pissed that a white man has despoiled your future bride-to-be and you want to pay whites back for that.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 4:28 PM

Because they usually don’t give the needle for heat-of-passion, unplanned fit-of-jealousy murders.

see-dubya on April 16, 2007 at 4:18 PM

Sorry, I was just speculating on the shooter’s train of thought, not planning his legal defense. Do they even have the death penalty in Virginia?

Tanya on April 16, 2007 at 4:28 PM

They know why won’t they tell us?

frreal on April 16, 2007 at 4:22 PM

All kinds of reasons–if they suspect an accomplice, if they want to trace the gun, if they want to contact his next of kin. Isn’t this the kind of info that the police tend to give out in one press briefing? Obviously just my speculation.

honora on April 16, 2007 at 4:28 PM

Martyrdom is the ultimate redemption no? All prior sins forgiven so live it up in the here and now as long as you take out a few infidels on your way out.

frreal on April 16, 2007 at 4:29 PM

Dan Riehl’s following rumors on the V Tech sports bulletin board that the shooter caught his girlfriend in bed with someone and shot both of them.

But didn’t he go into Norris Hall looking for his girlfriend?

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 4:29 PM

Very wild and almost certainly incorrect specualation not to be taken as anything but: When you are Hmong and you are pissed that a white man has despoiled your future bride-to-be and you want to pay whites back for that.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 4:28 PM

Assuming all the victims were white though, probably not the case.

honora on April 16, 2007 at 4:30 PM

A student says that at 10:15 am, students were still coming to class, and walking around campus, not knowing what had happened.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 4:30 PM

Regarding first responders,

Nothing could prepare them for this.

Tanya on April 16, 2007 at 4:24 PM

Actually, the first reponders are usually the best prepared for this, thankfully. The school itself is another story, thye are usually very ill prepared for this.

Bad Candy on April 16, 2007 at 4:31 PM

Do they even have the death penalty in Virginia?

Tanya on April 16, 2007 at 4:28 PM

Yes

Martyrdom is the ultimate redemption no? All prior sins forgiven so live it up in the here and now as long as you take out a few infidels on your way out.

frreal on April 16, 2007 at 4:29 PM

Checkmate

- The Cat

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 4:31 PM

I understand why the authorities keep the name under wraps. I find it hard to believe the media hasn’t released it.

frreal on April 16, 2007 at 4:32 PM

Fox news is now describing the shooter as “Asian”. Can’t wait to see a photo.

P. James Moriarty on April 16, 2007 at 4:32 PM

Nonsense. Walk into a classroom with a gun and get everyone to line up to be shot execution-style. Huge death toll without any wild flailing and shooting. Move on to another classroom and repeat.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 4:20 PM

Nonsense right back at you. What’s your experience with firearms?

Point me to a comparable example. Ever.

60 plus victims. More than half fatalities. With semi-auto handguns, one of which was reportedly a .22. Find me a comparable example.

The closest I could come up with is that California McDonald’s massacre back in the mid-80s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald%27s_massacre

He killed 21 and wounded 19. But there was a big, big difference: he fired almost 300 rounds, and he was using an Uzi and a 12-gauge. If this guy had used a shotgun, I might believe it.

The only other possibility is indeed that he somehow got all 60 people to line up and hold still.

I really, truly hope that is not the case. I find that even harder to believe. Do you really think 60 people would just stand there? Are we really that docile?

I really hope you’re wrong on that one. That’s the bleakest idea I’ve heard yet.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 4:32 PM

Can we PLEASE stop assuming its Sudden Jihad Syndrome? Wait for the damn press conference…Jesus Christ, your speculations are as bad as the MSMs when this happens.

Bad Candy on April 16, 2007 at 4:34 PM

Actually, the first reponders are usually the best prepared for this, thankfully. The school itself is another story, thye are usually very ill prepared for this.

Bad Candy on April 16, 2007 at 4:31 PM

The first responders are well prepared for closing the area, pinning down and taking out a shooter, caring for the wounded, and keeping things as calm as possible. Nothing can prepare you for 32 dead children.

Tanya on April 16, 2007 at 4:35 PM

The week of Hitler’s birthday should be a total lock down at all schools. I expected something bad this week and this week seems to be the time when shootings happen or get threatened the most.

Our schools are all closed this week, which is for other reasons.

Hening on April 16, 2007 at 4:35 PM

I have to admit, I’m very surprised to hear Asian. I would have put money on white male.

Dash on April 16, 2007 at 4:36 PM

Nonsense right back at you. What’s your experience with firearms?

Point me to a comparable example. Ever.

First, point me to any similar incident where a shooter lined up and shot large groups of people (and opposed to simply charged in and shot everyone in sight).

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 4:37 PM

Assuming all the victims were white though, probably not the case.

More wild speculation: Or maybe just non-Hmong.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 4:38 PM

More to this. Apparently the police were ON THE SCENE when the second round of shootings started

Virginia Tech graduate student Jamal Albarghouti captured dramatic video of the deadly shooting on his cell phone.

He said he was only about 200 feet from Norris Hall, where the second round of shooting happened.

“I just turned around and left,” he said, and that was when he ran into police officers rushing to the scene.

Albarghouti, like many other students on the campus, was aware there had been bomb threats recently.

But he said seeing the officers draw their guns made him realize this was different.

“I knew it was something way more serious than that, so I started taking the video,” he said, adding that he often visited CNN.com and knew he could send his video to I-Report.

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 4:38 PM

First, point me to any similar incident where a shooter lined up and shot large groups of people (and opposed to simply charged in and shot everyone in sight).

Oy. I really don’t want to get into this debate, but that’s exactly what happened at that Amish school a few months ago. He lined those kids up by the blackboard and shot them one after another.

Tanya on April 16, 2007 at 4:38 PM

Actually, the first reponders are usually the best prepared for this, thankfully.
Bad Candy on April 16, 2007 at 4:31 PM

This is true. The EMTs and paramedics were operating on automatic pilot, so to speak. They will all be debriefed immediately after the incident (mandatory,) and counseling is available when necessary. In addition, their superiors will be watching all of them closely for months, and filing follow-up reports.

Such a horrible, horrible event. For those who believe in the hereafter, the victims are at peace. Their family and friends will suffer enormously for a long, long time.

IrishEi on April 16, 2007 at 4:39 PM

I would have put money on white male.

Dash on April 16, 2007 at 4:36 PM

same here Dash. Asian wasn’t even on my long list.

frreal on April 16, 2007 at 4:39 PM

Oy. I really don’t want to get into this debate, but that’s exactly what happened at that Amish school a few months ago. He lined those kids up by the blackboard and shot them one after another.

And if he had more to shoot at would the toll have been larger? If he many more to shoot at would the toll have been much larger? I think so.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 4:40 PM

For all those who keep whining about speculation, please take note that this is the ‘comment’ section – not the ‘confirmed report’ section.

RedWinged Blackbird on April 16, 2007 at 4:41 PM

Intersting Timeline on MSNBC

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18138327/

7:15 a.m.: Gunfire reported
A gunman, apparently carrying two handguns, enters shooting at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a coed dormitory that houses 895 people, and opens fire.
At least one person is reported killed at the scene.

9:26 a.m.: E-mail warning
Campus police send out an e-mail warning to faculty and students stating there has been a shooting at West Amber Johnston.
“Police are on the scene and are investigating,” it says. “The university community is urged to be cautious and are asked to contact Virginia Tech Police if you observe anything suspicious or with information on the case.”

9:15 a.m.: Second onslaught
As police are investigating the first shooting, reports of a second shooting at Norris Hall, an engineering building about a half-mile away, are received.
Two law enforcement sources tell NBC News that the gunman chained the doors on the classroom building after entering, making it harder for students to get out — or police outside to get in.

9:50 a.m.: ‘A gunman is loose’
Campus authorities issue a second e-mail alert, warning, “A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows.”

10:16 a.m.: Another alert
Campus authorites issue a third e-mail alert, saying that all classes have been canceled and restating that anyone on campus should “remain where there are, lock their doors and stay away from windows. Persons off campus are asked not to come to campus.”

10:52 a.m.:’Multiple victims’
Authorities send out a fourth e-mail alert stating “There has been a multiple shooting with multiple victims in Norris Hall.” It erroneously states that police are seeking a “second shooter” and states that “all people in university buildings are required to stay inside until further notice. All entrances to campus are closed.”

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 4:42 PM

Oy. I really don’t want to get into this debate, but that’s exactly what happened at that Amish school a few months ago. He lined those kids up by the blackboard and shot them one after another.

Besides, the police were on the scene when the shooting occurred from what I understand. In this case, it is clear that police didn’t exactly have this guy’s location pinned down.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 4:43 PM

Presser happening now Fox Livestream

- The Cat

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 4:43 PM

Virginia Tech graduate student Jamal Albarghouti captured dramatic video of the deadly shooting on his cell phone.

He said he was only about 200 feet from Norris Hall, where the second round of shooting happened.

“I just turned around and left,” he said, and that was when he ran into police officers rushing to the scene.

Albarghouti, like many other students on the campus, was aware there had been bomb threats recently.

I don’t believe that for one second. His first inclination was to film the footage just like that other student at UCLA who filmed the Muslim testing security? Something really odd is going on here.

januarius on April 16, 2007 at 4:44 PM

That’s weird. I wonder if that time mismatch is a typo? They have 9:15 after 9:26.

Tanya on April 16, 2007 at 4:44 PM

That’s weird. I wonder if that time mismatch is a typo? They have 9:15 after 9:26.

Is a typo on my part

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 4:46 PM

Nonsense. Walk into a classroom with a gun and get everyone to line up to be shot execution-style. Huge death toll without any wild flailing and shooting. Move on to another classroom and repeat.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 4:20 PM

Nonsense right back at you. What’s your experience with firearms?

Point me to a comparable example. Ever.

Blather, what’s YOUR experience with school shootings?

I think he wrong about the line up and execute scenario, but there is a reasonable scenario where you effectively have the same. Columbine itself. The largest number of injuries and death were in the library, and what were most of those people doing? Hiding under desks and tables, entirely immobile and unable to fight back, it would be easy to march along the aisles kill at will, you wouldn’t need a powerful weapon. During most shootings, students hide under desks/tables. Its just what they do.

Bad Candy on April 16, 2007 at 4:46 PM

2 dead, then another 31—-total 33.

No ID on the gunman.

IrishEi on April 16, 2007 at 4:47 PM

I don’t believe that for one second. His first inclination was to film the footage just like that other student at UCLA who filmed the Muslim testing security? Something really odd is going on here.

januarius on April 16, 2007 at 4:44 PM

You think he was a camera for the YouTube relese for it? Or maybe confirmation so his family can be set free? Not that I think this, but just floating alternative theories.

- The Cat

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 4:47 PM

Still haven’t IDed the shooter, he didn’t have any ID on him. How long does it take to run someones prints?

P. James Moriarty on April 16, 2007 at 4:47 PM

The media is, rightly, frying the officials at the press conference.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 4:47 PM

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 4:43 PM

Are you still talking to me? You asked for “any similar incident where a shooter lined up and shot large groups of people” and I answered you. Just supplying trivia. I have no further speculation.

Tanya on April 16, 2007 at 4:47 PM

The MSNBC timeline is funny because one of the interviewees who was in Norris Hall–not the guy who was shot through the arm, but the next one– said he looked at his cell phone when the shooting started and it was 9:40.

Maybe he didn’t hear the first shots.

see-dubya on April 16, 2007 at 4:47 PM

First, point me to any similar incident where a shooter lined up and shot large groups of people (and opposed to simply charged in and shot everyone in sight).

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 4:37 PM

Huh?

That’s my whole point. There are no similar incidents. Exactly right. That’s why I’m having trouble buying the idea.

Clarify your question for me and I’ll be happy to answer it.

To give you another example: The Australian “Port Arthur” massacre. Supposedly the worst in history (well, today might just top it). 35 killed and 37 wounded.

But he used an AR-15 and a 12-gauge shotgun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre

I’ve actually found my own example that’s at least in the ballpark: the Luby’s massacre in Killeen, Texas. 23 killed and 20 wounded. But then again, he used two 9mms, a Ruger and a Glock. He also had at least some military experience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre

More to the point, both of those massacres occurred in very enclosed spaces. Somehow the guy today managed to go from classroom to classroom and pull this off.

I repeat: there’s either more to the story, or he was highly trained. Or he somehow managed to get all those people to hold very still.

We’ll find out soon enough.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 4:49 PM

The University President seems unable to answer questions, and is stumbling over himself. He can’t answer why it took so long, why the school wasn’t locked down, why they can’t ID the shooter, or any important question. Even the student newspapers are frying them.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 4:50 PM

Is a typo on my part

No, I checked msnbc to confirm it wasn’t you, before I asked. The timeline’s wonky there too. (But I’ll take a screenshot of it before refreshing their page…)

Tanya on April 16, 2007 at 4:50 PM

Virginia Tech graduate student Jamal Albarghouti captured dramatic video of the deadly shooting on his cell phone.

Remember this? With another student who just happened to film it with a cellphone?

http://dailybruin.com/news/2006/nov/15/breaking-news-student-shot-wit/

It looks like they were testing campus security.

januarius on April 16, 2007 at 4:51 PM

sounds like the police chief doesn’t know who the first shooter was. . from the earlier thing. Like they could be unrelated or the same guy.

So again, a shooting, no one arrested AND CLASSES ARE STILL GOING ON!

- The Cat

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 4:51 PM

This is a joke. In the press conference just now, they said they do not know the identity of the shooter because he had no ID. So … if they don’t know the identity of the shooter, how the hell do they know the entire “boyfriend/girlfriend” scenario.

This is totally bogus. I hate being lied to.

Gregor on April 16, 2007 at 4:51 PM

Remember also that some bomb threats happened just days before this attack.

Is way too much premeditation for this to be a crime of passion

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 4:51 PM

Now he says he’s still not sure if there’s a second shooter.

MY GOD! Get off the TV!

Gregor on April 16, 2007 at 4:52 PM

This is too, too fishy. The Pres. of the school and the police officer are being WAY too evasive.

Not sure the two shootings were related—BUT—we are not looking for a second gunman. WTH?

IrishEi on April 16, 2007 at 4:52 PM

That’s my whole point. There are no similar incidents. Exactly right. That’s why I’m having trouble buying the idea.

My point is that making lots of point-blank executions with a pistol against immobilized students doesn’t exactly require a Special Ops guy. The shooter barricades the door to the classroom (or lecture hall; there would be tons of students in an average lecture hall and not even desks to hide under) preventing any quick escape and simply orders the students to line up and get down and starts blasting people.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 4:53 PM

I repeat: there’s either more to the story, or he was highly trained. Or he somehow managed to get all those people to hold very still.

We’ll find out soon enough.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 4:49 PM

Was there an alarm, like a tornado one or one that could have been mistaken as one that cause people to stay in their classrooms? Make me wonder was there an alarm/announcement at all.

- The Cat

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 4:53 PM

And the reason for this press conference is?

oakpack on April 16, 2007 at 4:53 PM

ABC News reported that a separate shooting occurred at an off-campus apartment. According to the police spokesman, there wasn’t a shootout. The President of the Univ. seems so happy with himself, that he immediately closed a building, after the shooter shot many people.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 4:53 PM

Here’s another good one:

After finding the first two victims, they believed the shooter was no longer on campus.

I smell a rat. A big, fat, stinkin’ water rat.

IrishEi on April 16, 2007 at 4:54 PM

oakpack, I don’t know. The officials are idiots, who obviously didn’t respond as they should’ve. They have no answers for anything.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 4:55 PM

Hopefully this will be a wake up all to everyone who thinks that the Cops are good for anything other than a Autopsy.

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on April 16, 2007 at 4:55 PM

Took the uni pres this long to say ‘we closed the first building’ as a comeback and looked all proud of himself. Sounded like they were waiting for the 1st shooter to come out . . . . in other words they never got the 1st one and it probably is the same guy.

Criminal negligence!

- The Cat

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 4:55 PM

Fundi Muslims are very, very strict about any sort of pre-marital relationship, not matter how innocent, with the opposite sex. Even being alone with a woman who is not a family member is considered haram by most strict Muslims.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 4:04 PM

Didn’t many of the 9/11 terrorists spend the nights before the hijackings boozing it up at strip clubs?

I think (like with many fundamentalists, such as eco-fundies that protest SUV emissions by lighting cars on fire) they don’t always follow all their beliefs as closely as they might like others to believe.

JadeNYU on April 16, 2007 at 4:56 PM

Blather, you don’t have to be trained at all to shoot a bunch of people that are trapped within a few feet of you.

Also, he did’t have to stop firing once he shot a person for the first time. All he had to do was walk through the room and shoot whoever he wanted as often as he wanted.

Witness reports have already said that they stayed in their classrooms as he moved from room to room.

Not hard for me to accept at all.

mesablue on April 16, 2007 at 4:56 PM

They apparently didn’t do anything, after they believed the shooter left the building, after he shot two people. Like they were going to go home after that.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 4:57 PM

If officials can’t give straight, honest answers then it’s waaay too early to be holding a press conference.

CliffHanger on April 16, 2007 at 4:57 PM

This is a joke. In the press conference just now, they said they do not know the identity of the shooter because he had no ID. So … if they don’t know the identity of the shooter, how the hell do they know the entire “boyfriend/girlfriend” scenario.

This is totally bogus. I hate being lied to.

Gregor on April 16, 2007 at 4:51 PM

Isn’t the boyfriend/girlfriend thing speculation on a message board? Can we please quit assuming its Sudden Jihad Syndrome? If it comes out as SJS, I’ll eat crow gladly, but I think its not smart to assume.

As for the second shooter thing, they oughta know, unless they’re keeping it mum to try and surprise him.

Bad Candy on April 16, 2007 at 4:58 PM

In the case of the Lubys’, Killeen Tx massacre, George Hennard was a thirty-something male rebuffed by two teen-aged girls. So he drove to the next town over and killed people with no connection whatsoever at a restaurant. How much sense does that make?

Buck Turgidson on April 16, 2007 at 4:58 PM

This is as bad as Waco where the guy on the roof shoots himself in the leg, or the Keyho(sp?) brothers in Ohio where the officer said they were wearing flak vests because he shot of them and they didnt go down. But when you look at the vid you can see him taking off his safty after the van was speeding down the road.

Did the police think that calls for the 2nd shooting were about the first and didn’t send officers out again??

- The Cat

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 4:58 PM

Sounds like they did nothing, and hoped it would just go away. I’m more and more convinced there was negligence, or an attempt cover-up, on the university’s part.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 4:59 PM

That’s 33, including suspect.

So 32 victims.

Slublog on April 16, 2007 at 4:59 PM

The university does not have a lock-down plan.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 4:59 PM

Bill to allow students and faculty to carry guns…

Students don’t vote.

ar_basin on April 16, 2007 at 5:00 PM

The University President says he thinks the lock-down went very well this time. Yeah, what’s 32 children dead?

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 5:01 PM

William Amos’ 4:45 link didn’t work for me, but this story at the Times Dispatch I think has the picture he was talking about–a cop holding an AR on a man in a blue jacket on the ground.

From that article:

Shortly after 11 a.m., university officials told The Times-Dispatch that one person was in custody and another was being sought. At 11:19, one man was seen in custody and in handcuffs in the back of a police car outside Burruss Hall. Authorities then moved hurriedly from Burruss to tennis courts near Cassell Coliseum

Okay, at this point I basically believe that there was a shooting on the VT campus today and somewhere north of thirty people are dead. Only this, and nothing more.

see-dubya on April 16, 2007 at 5:01 PM

Maybe I’m kinda funny this way, but if I were going to have a presser, I might have some INFORMATION.

oakpack on April 16, 2007 at 5:01 PM

You have to remember that most universities, like the one I’m attending, are filled with liberals who basically believe that tripe about not “taking any chances” by resisting. They still believe in that crap about it being safest to cooperate with a gunman. I was in the Army (so yes, I certainly have some firearms experience), but very few of my peers have been in any branch of the armed forces.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 5:02 PM

Bad Candy we are speculating, throwing out theories, hypothosizing. No one is jumping to conclutions.

It’s a natural human reaction when something is going on and no answers are being givin.

HE JUST SAID THE LOCKDOWN SYSTEM WORKED VERY WEL!! Fire this guy, throw him in prison, hire him when he gets out and repeat.

It worked because the student cooperated very well. I think the pieces are coming together. The doors were locked from the inside, the it was the profs that kept them in. Ducks in a barrel.

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 5:03 PM

New maxim: never attribute to the skill of the killer what you can more easily attribute to the incompetence of officials.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 5:05 PM

That’s 33, including suspect.
So 32 victims.
Slublog on April 16, 2007 at 4:59 PM

Thank you for the clarification. ABSOLUTELY 32 victims, and one dead murdering ba$tard.

IrishEi on April 16, 2007 at 5:06 PM

The only description they’ll give is that he is a “male”, yet he accuses the press of jumping to conlusions that both incidents were caused by the same person?

This president needs to be fired asap — he’s hanging himself with his self importance and unwillingness to take any responsibility.

mesablue on April 16, 2007 at 5:07 PM

Never quite like the textbooks. . . .it’s that apropriate for a school (eyeroll)

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 5:08 PM

Blather, what’s YOUR experience with school shootings?

I think he wrong about the line up and execute scenario, but there is a reasonable scenario where you effectively have the same. Columbine itself. The largest number of injuries and death were in the library, and what were most of those people doing? Hiding under desks and tables, entirely immobile and unable to fight back, it would be easy to march along the aisles kill at will, you wouldn’t need a powerful weapon. During most shootings, students hide under desks/tables. Its just what they do.

Bad Candy on April 16, 2007 at 4:46 PM

School shootings? Thankfully none. Firearms? Five years, USMC, expert at every qual with both the 9 millimeter (.45 one year) and the M-16. Questions?

Again – Columbine had two shooters. In addition to handguns, they each used a 12-gauge; one of them also used a 9 mm carbine semi-auto rifle.

Their massacre was carefully pre-planned – and they only killed 12 people – with twice as many wounded.

By any standard, what happened today was extraordinary. SIXTY plus people, more than half fatalities. Unless Google is lying to me, it’s never happened before. Ever. Even with larger caliber weapons, automatic weapons, and shotguns. And this guy reportedly had one 9 mm and a .22?

It was not done by an untrained, unprepared, unskilled individual. I guarantee it. Not sure why this is controversial.

Frankly, the “execution style” scenario is the only one that even seems plausible. As ugly as it is to consider. And since that scenario doesn’t seem very probable, either, I’ll just repeat: there’s more to the story.

Or maybe he just played way too much GTA-Vice City. That’s the theory my television is currently telling me.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 5:08 PM

lol MirCat

oakpack on April 16, 2007 at 5:08 PM

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 5:08 PM

Dude, the lockdown held them in place. Then if someone stands in the doorway, it’s duck hunt. These kids aren’t Neo for crying out loud.

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 5:11 PM

New maxim: never attribute to the skill of the killer what you can more easily attribute to the incompetence of officials.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 5:05 PM

I’ll agree with that one. No matter what happened, somebody screwed up badly somewhere to allow it to go on for hours.

Yet another lesson that should have been learned after Columbine.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 5:11 PM

Blaming Bush in 3 2

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 5:12 PM

My heart goes out to the victims and families.

Concealed guns should be allowed. A few years back there was a similar situation as this one here except two law students who had concealed weapon permits who helped prevented further bloodshed after one.

Ironically, the gunman in this instance also had an “Asian” sounding last name (Peter Odighizuwa) who killed the school’s dean, a professor and a student on campus before being subdued by two armed students, Mikael Gross and Tracy Bridges.

After two armed southwest Virginia law students stopped a campus shooting rampage in January, a Second Amendment group at a northern Virginia law school decided it was time to change their own school’s ban on guns.

“We are trying to build a detailed and persuasive brief that would include statistics on increases in safety, decreases in violent crime when you do have concealed carry permit holders in a jurisdiction,” said Orest J. Jowyk, president of the Second Amendment group at George Mason University School of Law.

“I think the middle ground is to allow concealed handgun permit holders to carry just like they can anywhere else in Virginia,” he said. “You provide extra safety to the student body that way.”

Jowyk began researching his law school’s gun policy following the January incident in which a disgruntled student at Appalachian Law School, Peter Odighizuwa, allegedly shot and killed the school’s dean, a professor and a student on campus before being subdued by two armed students, Mikael Gross and Tracy Bridges.

Gross and Bridges reportedly ran to their cars to fetch their own guns and returned to confront Odighizuwa, who surrendered after allegedly initiating a fistfight.

Jowyk was heartened by the students’ intervention. But looking into GMU’s gun policy, Jowyk found to his dismay that the school’s board of visitors had in 1995 passed a ban on all weapons, concealed or otherwise, except by law enforcement officials.

Anyone who violates the school’s gun ban would face administrative repercussions but not criminal charges, according to Jowyk.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200209%5CNAT20020917a.html

Kokonut on April 16, 2007 at 5:13 PM

It takes time. We had to send out 36,000 e-mails. What, they send them out one at a time?

oakpack on April 16, 2007 at 5:14 PM

The police Chief looks like he’s about to break down

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 5:14 PM

I’ll agree with that one. No matter what happened, somebody screwed up badly somewhere to allow it to go on for hours.

Yet another lesson that should have been learned after Columbine.

Sorry, if I came off as a jerk. I really didn’t intend to; I should have worded my response a little differently.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 5:15 PM

Ironic………

May God Welcome Home those killed, and ease the suffering of the Loved One’s……..

PinkyBigglesworth on April 16, 2007 at 5:15 PM

Correction:

A few years back there was a similar situation as this one here except two law students who had concealed weapon permits who helped prevented further bloodshed after one disgrunted student killed three people on campus.

Kokonut on April 16, 2007 at 5:15 PM

But the uni prez has been smililing this whole time

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 5:16 PM

E-mails my red-fanny……
Push the button sirens go off. Even an i-pod won’t cover that up. High tech BS. If you have ever lived within a mile of a tornado siren there is no missing it.

Limerick on April 16, 2007 at 5:17 PM

You know, I’m almost glad these morons are giving this abominable press conference. It’ll provide lots of rope to hang them with.

If they had any brains at all the would shut the hell up. But NO! They are so self-absorbed and so self-agrandizing that they just can’t help themselves. Idiots.

Go ahead, keep talking stupid. Want a cup o’ Joe? How about a smoke? Things will go better if we can tell the DA you were cooperative…

IrishEi on April 16, 2007 at 5:18 PM

Him talking about sending emails and knocking on doors blah blah blah

how about putting the word out through things like the amber alert system or weather warnings or any number or tv/radio break ins???

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 5:18 PM

Gross and Bridges reportedly ran to their cars to fetch their own guns and returned to confront Odighizuwa …

If one were to believe the mainstream media, what you just posted could never, ever happen. Not in a million years.

Armed citizens prevented further bloodshed? Strange concept.

They probably violated the shooter’s civil right.

Have they been sued yet?

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 5:19 PM

Yahoo! News:

He defending the university’s handling of the tragedy, saying: “We can only make decisions based on the information you had on the time. You don’t have hours to reflect on it.”

Well, in this case you apparently did. Really though, you shouldn’t have had to spend too much time thinking. Instead, you should have been prepared in advance.

Steger said the university decided to rely on e-mail and other electronic means of notifying members of the university, but with 11,000 people driving onto campus first thing in the morning, it was difficult to get the word out to everyone.

Sounds like a very obvious logistics problem that should have occurred to anyone within a few minutes of thinking about this matter. Again, that is why you prepare in advance.

Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum would not say how many weapons the gunman carried. But a law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the investigation was incomplete, said that the gunman had two pistols and multiple clips of ammunition.

tommy1 on April 16, 2007 at 5:20 PM

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