Report: At least 20 29 32 dead, 28 wounded in shooting at Virginia Tech; Update: Chinese man on student visa? Update: Two suspects?

posted at 12:28 pm on April 16, 2007 by Allahpundit

Good lord. I’ve been peeking at this story for hours and until a few minutes ago there was one reported dead and the gunman was in custody. Now the death toll is 22 and the gunman is supposedly dead too.

Standby.

Update: Apparently one of the cops said at the presser that many of the dead were students in classrooms. The gunman had an ammo vest on and was unloading at will.

Update: They think there’s only one shooter, but verrrry odd: “Local FOX affiliate WFXR-TV in Richmond reported that one shooting occurred between 7:15 a.m. and 7:30 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, and another at 10 a.m. at Norris Hall.”

Update: More oddness from Fox: “On April 13, the campus closed three of its academic halls after they received a letter stating that explosive devices were in the building. Classes were canceled for the remainder of the day. A bomb threat was also made against Torgerson Hall on April 2.”

Update: Someone told Fox — purely unconfirmed — that the suspect went into Norris Hall looking for his girlfriend, then lined a bunch of people up and shot them execution-style. The debate at the moment is what kind of weapon he must have had.

Update: The scene at Norris Hall:

vtech.jpg

Update: The press corps is already pushing Dana Perino about gun control. Drudge is pushing the other way.

Update: According to NBC, the killer used two 9mm handguns and killed himself. It’s officially the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history.

Update (Ian): Gun control talk at the WH briefing:

Update: Just got this from a reader who says it was posted on his VTech frat listserv. Grain of salt:

Zach just got back and he told us his story. he can tell u the details better but he deserves to be recognized immediately. He was in norris hall and heard the gunshots comign from down the hall. while others hid in the class room zach got up and got a few others to help him baracade the door with desks. He could hear the gunman coming down the hall opening doors n firing into class rooms. Zach then saw his door handle turn and the gun man tried to get in but zach slammed the door back shut, others then got up to help, trying to hold the door shut with desks. zach then said he heard the the gunman reload a new magazine and fired two shots directly through the door, luckily didnt hit anybody. the gunman then gave up an continued down the hall

Update: 29 now, says ABC News. Now Fox says it’s 32, according to federal sources.

Update: Virginia Tech’s college newspaper is posting bulletins here.

Update: CNN’s got video taken by someone on campus this morning. You can see the cops approaching the building and hear rounds being fired in the background. Apologies for the relatively long commercial; I’ll replace this with an embeddable clip once it pops up on LiveLeak or wherever. Click the image to watch. Update: Okay, replaced it with a video sans commercial.

Update: Thinking on the Margin has a map of the campus and notes that there’s quite a bit of distance between the two scenes of the crimes.

Update: Fox is hearing that the gunman might have chained the doors shut to stop people from escaping.

Update: According to WaPo, this is now the deadliest shooting spree of any kind, on campus or off, in American history. And if Wikipedia is right, it’s already the third worst in modern world history.

Update: It might not be relevant, but the Blotter’s found its angle and it’s sticking to it.

Update: Bush is going to speak at 4:15. I can’t imagine he’ll have anything interesting to say but we’ll have video. Here’s a description of the suspect from NBC and a suggestion that this wasn’t as random as it might seem:

The name of the gunman, whom witnesses described as a young Asian man wearing a maroon cap and a black leather jacket, was not released. It was not known if he was a student.

The man did not appear to be shooting at random, NBC News’ Pete Williams reported, quoting federal law enforcement officials. He appeared to have specifically targeted the two locations, a co-ed dormitory and a classroom in an engineering building.

Update: Drudge just linked to this video at LiveLeak from MSNBC of one of the shooting victims describing the gunman. According to the victim, he emptied a full magazine into the room, hitting between 10 to 15 people.

Update (Ian): A moment of silence in the House:

Update: ABC News is collecting eyewitness reactions. The V Tech administration is in for a world of trouble, it sounds like: “Communication from college? I checked my e-mail about 8:30…I went to my class as I usually would. By 8:30 no one was notified that something had happened at 7. We went onto a dangerous campus not knowing…”

Update (Ian): Obama makes a statement:

Update: More complaints about the university being slow to notify students after the first shooting:

“What happened today this was ridiculous,” student Jason Piatt told CNN. He said the first warning from the university of a shooting on campus came in an e-mail about two hours after the first deadly burst of gunfire. “While they’re sending out that e-mail, 22 more people got killed,” Piatt said.

Update: Dan Riehl‘s following rumors on the V Tech sports bulletin board that the shooter caught his girlfriend in bed with someone and shot both of them. That doesn’t make sense, though; how often do crimes of passion turn into spree killings?

Update: It’s 33 now, according to the president of V Tech.

Update: Dan’s theory makes more sense if you assume that the killer had been dumped recently by his GF and went to her dorm intending to kill her in the first place. In that case he might have planned the rampage beforehand.

Update (Ian): President Bush said the nation is “shocked and saddened” at a 4pm press conference:

Update: NBC is reporting that the first warning to students didn’t go out until the shooting in Norris Hall had begun:

About 9:15, the gunman chained the doors of the classroom building so his potential victims could not escape and police could not enter. Once inside There, he shot more than 50 people in multiple classrooms.

Not until 9:26 a.m. did the first warning to students and employees go out by e-mail, according to the time stamps on copies obtained by NBC News. By then, the shooting was over.

The first e-mail had few details. It said: “A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating.” The message warned students to be cautious and contact police about anything suspicious.

Maurice Hiller, a student, told The Associated Press that he went to a 9 a.m. class just two buildings away from the engineering building and that no warnings were coming over the outdoor public address system on campus at the time.

Update: VTech student Erin Sheehan was in German class when the killer opened the door and “peeked in”:

“It seemed so strange,” Sheehan said. “Because he peaked in twice, earlier in the lesson, like he was looking for someone, somebody, before he started shooting. But then we all heard something like drilling in the walls, and someone thought they sounded like bullets. That’s when we blockaded the door to stop anyone from coming in.”

“He was just a normal looking kid, Asian, but he had on a Boy Scout type outfit. He wore a tan button up vest, and this black vest, maybe it was for ammo or something.”

“I saw bullets hit people’s body,” Sheehan said.

Update: I read somewhere earlier that it’s only a 10 minute walk or so between the dorm and Norris Hall. Where did the killer go between 7:15 and 9?

Update: Why wasn’t the school shut down after the first shooting? “According to Dr. Charles Steger, president of Virginia Tech, the administration locked down Ambler Johnston Hall dormitory after the first shooting. But classes weren’t cancelled because it was believed to be a domestic dispute and campus police thought that the shooter had left the campus.”

Update: Sounds like the cops know who the killer is. The 7:30 press conference is coming up; maybe they’re about to reveal.

Investigators offered no motive for the attack, reports CBS News correspondent Bob Orr. Police have been working on identifying the suspect and say they expect to release the name in the coming hours. When asked if the gunman was a student, police say “something like that,” indicating that perhaps he was a teaching assistant, reports Orr.

Update: The cops are being awfully coy about not linking the first shooting to the second, insisting that they’re waiting for lab tests to come back. The Chicago Sun-Times claims to have a hot tip about the killer’s — or one of the killers’ — ID:

Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said.

Police believe three bomb threats on the campus last week may have been attempts by the man to test the campus’ security response, the source said.

Update: I’m utterly confused by the press conference. The cops claim they were speaking to a “person of interest” in the first shooting, who knew the two victims, when they got the word about the second shooting. They refuse to say whether that person has been ruled out yet.

Update: An interesting tip from reader Michael B. — there was a gun show in Roanoke County this weekend. Says Michael, he could have purchased anything he needed there with minimal background checks.

Update: Via Drudge, the Daily Mail embellishes the caught-in-bed theory: “He was said to have quarrelled in a dormitory with his girlfriend, whom he believed had been seeing another man. A student adviser was called to sort out the row. But the killer produced a gun and shot dead both his girlfriend and the adviser.”

Update: MSNBC says the “person of interest” is cooperating with police, is not in custody, and is not believed to be under suspicion. Federal and state cops all say they think it’s the work of a lone gunman.

Update: Early reports of two 9mm handguns appear to have been wrong. It was one 9mm and one .22.


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The name of the gunman, whom witnesses described as a young Asian man wearing a maroon cap and a black leather jacket, was not released. It was not known if he was a student.

The man did not appear to be shooting at random, NBC News’ Pete Williams reported, quoting federal law enforcement officials. He appeared to have specifically targeted the two locations, a co-ed dormitory and a classroom in an engineering building.

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:44 PM

The worst spree killing was committed by Woo Bum-Kon (1982) when he killed 57 and then himself, using grenades and a high powered rifle. After that, the second and third deadliest examples would be Martin Bryant (Port Arthur massacre, 1996), using

two semi-automatic weapons, a CAR-15 and an L1A1 SLR

, that accounted for 35 deaths
But this guy killed 32 on a college campus with a 9mm and a 22 pistol?

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 2:44 PM

With that many dead why didn’t some tackle him???
So sad, I pray for their families…How very tragic……
I’ve always thought, and this applies to Iraq as well, random crime is hard to stop!

Mellen on April 16, 2007 at 2:45 PM

This is a horrible story. How long before President Bush is blamed for this……….

Based on the questions coming from the White House Press Corps, looks like about three hours.

Blacklake on April 16, 2007 at 2:46 PM

I think the confusion is cause by the sequence of events. Seems the Police got a call about one shooting at 7 AM and went there and arrested one person. Then a second report came in about the shootings at the classrooms.

Think it was one shooter and a mistaken arrest.

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:46 PM

Right. Because it’s just plain ridiculous to suggest that had a few armed, trained students or staff been present, the killer might not have managed to shoot SIXTY people.

You’re ridiculous. Truly.

Now shut the hell up, dipshit. Adults are talking.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 2:34 PM

I’m sure there are armed, trained staff on campus…they’re called security. I’d think, being a Professor and all, you might be familiar with them.

Really? You actually believe a man could shoot 60 some-odd people before getting shot, if every student had a handgun? That’s a good imagination you’ve got there.

Gregor on April 16, 2007 at 2:39 PM

I think that if every student had a handgun there would be mass confusion on an unimaginable scale. People don’t know who the shooter is or what he looks like but they’ve all got their guns out ready to get him. No one is going to get accidentally shot or anything, I’m sure. No one is going to panic and shoot the first person they see with a gun. College students are so responsible and mature, there would be nothing to worry about.

JaHerer22 on April 16, 2007 at 2:47 PM

two semi-automatic weapons, a CAR-15 and an L1A1 SLR
, that accounted for 35 deaths
But this guy killed 32 on a college campus with a 9mm and a 22 pistol?

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 2:44 PM

It’s hard to imagine. I don’t get it, either.

Someone up above emphasized the word “unopposed.” I think that’s the key. There was just nothing and no one to even slow him down.

Even so … it’s still hard to believe. The death toll sounds more like a platoon of armed military troops swept through the campus.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 2:47 PM

I’m also a Virginian and my husband is a VT alumnus. In our community there are many parents with kids there right now. I can’t imagine their frantic worry until they can touch base.

Please pray for the families of the victims, and for the strength the survivors will need to heal. Communities all over Virginia and out of state are going to be devastated by this.

Tomi on April 16, 2007 at 2:48 PM

That is pure speculation; you haven’t one shred of evidence that is true.

I’m sorry but if I hear gunshots I don’t think I’d feel safer if 100 panicky college students all pull their own heat out thinking they are Jack Bauer trying to save the day.
JaHerer22 on April 16, 2007 at 2:40 PM

Well, you’re right, to a point. If the killer wanted to die – which he apparently did – armed people wouldn’t have stopped him from committing this act. But, fewer might have died if someone, anyone, with a gun, or guts enough to attack had done so. Afraid of panicky shooters? TRAIN!!! Don’t just buy a gun shoot a few rounds and put it away. I practice. Not enough, but I don’t think if I had to use a gun, I would be “praying and spraying.”

ScottG on April 16, 2007 at 2:48 PM

The usual “press-hysteria” is on-going. Here we are speculating about the who-what-when. About the only thing anybody knows is that a shooting went down and some people were killed. It is going to be quite a while before the real facts are known, including why it happened.

No doubt the gun-grabbers are going to be in high dudgeon, wrapped up in their sanctimoneousness and demanding that all guns be banned.

No doubt the media will be pontificating about “evil assault weapons ™.” And they will be endlessly repeating this story and whoring themselves to get “exclusives” at the funerals. In fact, it’s already starting….

Of course, the fact that the perp VIOLATED a whole bunch of laws, not the least of which makes MURDER illegal, is going to be lost in the hysteria of the moment.

My deepest sympathies go to the families. My contempt goes to the murderer, may he roast in hell.

georgej on April 16, 2007 at 2:48 PM

I don’t think adding more guns to equation would create anything but more fear and confusion.

JaHerer22 on April 16, 2007 at 2:40 PM

You are so wrong. With all due respect, please stop talking.

Buck Turgidson on April 16, 2007 at 2:48 PM

As stated above the Gunman chained the doors to the classroom building shut. No one could get out that way. That is why we had people jumping out the windows to escape

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:49 PM

My sympathy and prayers to the victims and their friends and families.

I’m in no mood for a stinking gun control debate. The victims are still wet with their own blood for crying out loud. Now is not the time for it IMO.

Yakko77 on April 16, 2007 at 2:34 PM

You know what? You are going to get it. The AP is already spinning the story to make it be about lack of gun control, and you can bet Democrats and the MSM are deciding right now how to best politicize this tragedy as they did with Katrina.

And Gregor, you are probably right. If the student was Asian and/or Muslim, you can bet they are holding off releasing the name for PC reasons.

Someone doesn’t shoot 50+ students without having a hatred for the culture.

januarius on April 16, 2007 at 2:50 PM

Blather for once I think I’m going to take your advice.

I’ll be quiet and let the “adults” discuss how more guns and more nukes are the answer to all the world’s problems.

JaHerer22 on April 16, 2007 at 2:50 PM

Something smells fishy here. Reports state it was 3 hours between the first shot, and last shot. You can’t tell me it took police 3 hours to get there. Did the school not call the police, until later on?

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 2:51 PM

Why am I getting a bad vibe about why they arent releasing the gunmans name ? That and the fact this is so premeditated really is raising red flags to me.

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:52 PM

Something smells fishy here. Reports state it was 3 hours between the first shot, and last shot. You can’t tell me it took police 3 hours to get there. Did the school not call the police, until later on?

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 2:51 PM

It’s just a guess, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some major confusion between campus police/security and local law enforcement. The incident may have appeared minimal at first – campus security may have tried to handle it on their own.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 2:53 PM

If there was the slightest chance that someone in the university would have shot the SOB he never would have tried it.
Limerick on April 16, 2007 at 2:31 PM

That is pure speculation; you haven’t one shred of evidence that is true.
JaHerer22 on April 16, 2007 at 2:40 PM

Perhaps if one was to target just a few victims and then one’s self as in a “love triangle” that may be a reasonable argument, but the sheer number of rounds both carried and used is self-evident that the killer knew he had time to spend them.

shuzilla on April 16, 2007 at 2:53 PM

Prof B, you’re welcome to the quote. This is where the rot sets in:

From abundance to complacency;

At that point people seem to forget the cost of bondage and the value of spiritual faith; great courage; and liberty.

INC on April 16, 2007 at 2:53 PM

I’ll be quiet and let the “adults” discuss how more guns and more nukes are the answer to all the world’s problems.
JaHerer22 on April 16, 2007 at 2:50 PM

Nukes?

Something smells fishy here. Reports state it was 3 hours between the first shot, and last shot. You can’t tell me it took police 3 hours to get there. Did the school not call the police, until later on?
amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 2:51 PM

If that’s true, it calls the university’s response into question. They should have had cops swarming the place in those hours, and locked down the campus.

Slublog on April 16, 2007 at 2:54 PM

JaHerer22, please do us all a favor, and go away. Now is not the time for your anti-gun, anti-nuke attitude. In case you haven’t noticed, 31 peoples’ children are dead.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 2:54 PM

“I’ll be quiet and let the “adults” discuss….

JaHerer22 on April 16, 2007 at 2:50 PM”

This is the smartest thing you’ve said in WEEKS.

georgej on April 16, 2007 at 2:54 PM

Why am I getting a bad vibe about why they arent releasing the gunmans name ? That and the fact this is so premeditated really is raising red flags to me.

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:52 PM

I hope what you’re thinking is wrong.

But I doubt it.

I don’t believe a random disgruntled boyfriend is capable of doing this. I suspect – whoever did it – we’ll find they were trained, and carefully prepared.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 2:55 PM

Slublog on April 16, 2007 at 2:54 PM

Yep, that’s what I’m saying. I know a few cops there. Those cops would have been there in minutes, hearing that children were being killed. I honestly, and please don’t take this as a conspiracy theory, think the college attempted to cover part of it up.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 2:56 PM

You can’t tell me it took police 3 hours to get there. Did the school not call the police, until later on?

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 2:51 PM

Was there no campus police? Students didn’t tackle the guy? Nothing? This is making less sense by the minute.

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 2:56 PM

Oh god!!!!..Hold on we’re going to get a big lecture tomorrow from Rosie on gun control.

mlong on April 16, 2007 at 2:57 PM

Apparently, after students were killed, students were allowed to still walk around campus, and go to class, even a while after the shooting happened.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 2:58 PM

I’ll be quiet and let the “adults” discuss how more guns and more nukes are the answer to all the world’s problems.

JaHerer22 on April 16, 2007 at 2:50 PM

In a world where the use of force by evil people often wins the day, superior force is required from better people for credible deterrence. Superior force, and the will to use it.

shuzilla on April 16, 2007 at 2:58 PM

“Love triangles” I’ve read about generally involve just the ex and the former and the new.

INC on April 16, 2007 at 2:58 PM

The cops are checking everything and everybody connected with the gunman right now. Last thing they want is the press running over to a roomate for an interview.

Limerick on April 16, 2007 at 2:58 PM

Allah. Seeing that’s it’s NBC saying it was an Asian targeting the engineering school seems to me like they are setting the story up for Race Baiting.

Egfrow on April 16, 2007 at 2:58 PM

Apparently, after students were killed, students were allowed to still walk around campus, and go to class, even a while after the shooting happened.
amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 2:58 PM

Unbelievable.

Slublog on April 16, 2007 at 2:59 PM

Prof B, you’re welcome to the quote. This is where the rot sets in:

From abundance to complacency;
At that point people seem to forget the cost of bondage and the value of spiritual faith; great courage; and liberty.

INC on April 16, 2007 at 2:53 PM

I agree completely. That’s exactly what I was thinking the first time I read that post.

It’s almost funny in a way, but success is always a problem. When I read that line … I thought of a boxer who comes from nothing to win the title, and finds himself rich and famous. Suddenly the hunger is gone … and he’s beaten. In fact, ain’t this one of the Rocky movies?

Abundance leads to complacency. Our success has made us soft.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 2:59 PM

VA Tech has campus police they interveiwed its cheif

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:59 PM

Amer/slub/Amos/Prof: It is going to be a while before we know the truth of what really happened here. We really know very little of what has happened, beyond that there were fatalities.

georgej on April 16, 2007 at 3:00 PM

CNN, about 20 minutes ago, carried local feed having a reporter who said several students claimed the shootings started in one room of a dorm by a man and a woman.

shuzilla on April 16, 2007 at 3:00 PM

Think it was one shooter and a mistaken arrest.

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:46 PM

Except for the fact that the police also said they had no reason to believe both shootings were related. Either this is an awfully stupid police force, or they’re covering something up. Of course, it could also be the media mis-reporting the comments by law enforcement.

Gregor on April 16, 2007 at 3:01 PM

Even unarmed, have we became such passivists that we can be lined up for slaughter like so many sheep?
I have to think that 30 unarmed 2nd graders probably could have taken him down in a Zerg rush….

In any re:, prayers for the slain, wounded, and families..
Yogs

Yogurt on April 16, 2007 at 3:02 PM

I carry my Smith and Wesson MP .40 everywhere I go… and that includes campus. Obviously, firearms are not allowed on any university but as you can see, with 32 people dead, when it comes down to it, the rules do not apply. I am willing to risk being caught with a firearm because I understand what happens when you rely on imaginary heroes to protect your life.

You have a right to live, you have a right to protect yourself, and you have the right to bear arms… and unless the university ensures my safety (which they can’t), I will take my constitutional rights deadly serious. 32 people are dead. No one was there to defend them. No one will be there to defend you.

Opinionnation on April 16, 2007 at 3:02 PM

One student told Fox News, that he attended 2 classes, before the school went into lockdown. Thoughts and prayers are with all of the victims of this terrible tragedy. According to reports, some brave students shoved him out the door of a classroom, and held it closed, even as he shot through the door at them.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 3:02 PM

You know what? You are going to get it. The AP is already spinning the story to make it be about lack of gun control, and you can bet Democrats and the MSM are deciding right now how to best politicize this tragedy as they did with Katrina.

And Gregor, you are probably right. If the student was Asian and/or Muslim, you can bet they are holding off releasing the name for PC reasons.

Someone doesn’t shoot 50+ students without having a hatred for the culture.

januarius on April 16, 2007 at 2:50 PM

And how many shootings are there in DC every year? With an all out gun ban? My niece can fire a gun and I think I’m going to buy her a cute little semi-automatic that fits neatly in her purse that she can carry around on campus. I’m sick of this crap.

foxforce91 on April 16, 2007 at 3:02 PM

Amer/slub/Amos/Prof: It is going to be a while before we know the truth of what really happened here. We really know very little of what has happened, beyond that there were fatalities.
georgej on April 16, 2007 at 3:00 PM

Good point.

Slublog on April 16, 2007 at 3:03 PM

From what I heard, he chained up some of the doors so people couldn’t get in and he basically was just going to every classroom trying to get in, and just started shooting inside classrooms,” Jenkins said.

One of his friends was in a Norris classroom targeted by the gunman, Jenkins said.

“He was very fortunate,” Jenkins said. “He said every single person in the room was shot, killed and was in the ground. He laid on the ground with everyone … he played dead and he was OK.”

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 3:03 PM

Now there’s a man and a woman involved? I’m giving up. This information explosion has gotten out of hand.

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 3:04 PM

Either this is an awfully stupid police force, or they’re covering something up. Of course, it could also be the media mis-reporting the comments by law enforcement.

According to some media reports, the police weren’t called until later on, so I don’t think it’s so much the police, as the school itself. We’ll only know with time.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 3:04 PM

I can’t believe you can kill 32 people with PISTOLS. He had to have just executed them, there’s no other way to explain that number.

Pistols generally wound, not kill. At least not kill outright.

SillyRyno on April 16, 2007 at 3:05 PM

Why am I getting a bad vibe about why they arent releasing the gunmans name ? That and the fact this is so premeditated really is raising red flags to me.

They’re waiting to confirm, I’m sure. You can imagine the impact of releasing incorrect information, especially if the released name happened to be a victim’s…or yours.

Better they wait and release verified facts than to toss out every scrap of rumor that comes their way.

Pablo on April 16, 2007 at 3:06 PM

If you didn’t check your email, or talk to someone who did, you didn’t know it happened until well into the incident.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 3:06 PM

BTW, what does everyone make of these several bomb threats that were sent to the engineering building?

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 3:07 PM

Campus police are usually everywhere on big universities. I know my major school boasted of a 5 minute response time.

Also, these are small pistols. Hard to believe everything as it stands right now. I’m going from shock to disbelief. But mostly just anger.

brak on April 16, 2007 at 3:07 PM

College students are so responsible and mature, there would be nothing to worry about.

JaHerer22 on April 16, 2007 at 2:47 PM

As opposed to the peaceful surrounding of a madman holding the ONLY weapon and executing everyone in his range?

Yeah. God forbid the students might shoot one or two innocent people, as opposed to the SIXTY plus people shot this morning.

Do the math. 30 plus dead, or 5 dead.

You are out of line.

SouthernDem on April 16, 2007 at 2:40 PM

No, he was not out of line. He was exactly right.

Gregor on April 16, 2007 at 3:08 PM

They recovered 2 9MM handguns.

BelchSpeak on April 16, 2007 at 3:08 PM

I can’t believe you can kill 32 people with PISTOLS. He had to have just executed them, there’s no other way to explain that number.

Classrooms full of kids is the literal equivalent of fish in a barrel. It would be damned tough to do where people have the opportunity to run, but in a building like that, with that many people, you’ve got a captive audience at close range. Plenty of ammo and plenty of targets…it’s doable.

Pablo on April 16, 2007 at 3:09 PM

Former FBI Director Bill Gavin said if reports that the shooter chained the doors to Norris Hall are true, that is “definite proof of premeditation,” as is the number of magazines and rounds of ammunition he apparently had.

“He didn’t take that just to shoot one particular person,” Gavin said. “He had to have something going on there that said he was going to shoot a whole bunch of people at the same time.”

INC on April 16, 2007 at 3:09 PM

He had to have just executed them, there’s no other way to explain that number.

Pistols generally wound, not kill. At least not kill outright.

SillyRyno on April 16, 2007 at 3:05 PM

Ryno, it’s already been reported that the killer did line them up and shoot them.

As for pistols wounding, well there are quite a few people who’ve been made immediately dead by them….

ScottG on April 16, 2007 at 3:11 PM

FWIW, here’s a 9mm pistol with a 50/100 round capacity that can explain the shooter’s rate of fire, but I doubt that eye-witnesses would know that it’s a 9mm pistol. They’d probably refer to it as a machine pistol or the like.

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 3:11 PM

Even unarmed, have we became such passivists that we can be lined up for slaughter like so many sheep?
I have to think that 30 unarmed 2nd graders probably could have taken him down in a Zerg rush….

I don’t know about anyone else, but, everything I’ve ever seen/read/been told, tells you to do what the person with the gun says.

We’ve all been trained to be docile (no, I don’t think it was a conspiracy, just a mistake) and we’ll come out of the ‘hostage’ situation alright.

Unfortunately, it is all to common now for these crimes to involve no hostages at all but just as much carnage as possible.

JadeNYU on April 16, 2007 at 3:12 PM

The Zach story that Allah posted above matches exactly with another student, Derek O’Dell that survived the shooting. He talks about blocking the door to keep the shooter from coming back in after the first shooting spree in the room. Must have been the same room as Zach. Derek is also saying he was asian.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=67f_1176750363&p=1

Rightwingsparkle on April 16, 2007 at 3:14 PM

This was perpetrated by a crazy person, not a crazy firearm.

The eternal struggle of good versus evil continues.
Sometimes we acknowledge the struggle sometimes we’re ignorant.

Speakup on April 16, 2007 at 3:15 PM

As for pistols wounding, well there are quite a few people who’ve been made immediately dead by them….

ScottG on April 16, 2007 at 3:11 PM

I’m VERY well aware that pistols kill. My point being that 32 killed is ALOT, even when we are talking about someone using an assault rifle, much less a pistol. It’s incredible that he did this with just pistols, that’s all I’m saying.

SillyRyno on April 16, 2007 at 3:16 PM

You are out of line. Can you guys suppress your politics for just a few more hours, please?

SouthernDem on April 16, 2007 at 2:40 PM

One of our local idiots showed up to spew the usual leftist gun control politics crap … on a day when clearly lives would have been saved had a few armed citizens been present.

I told him to shut his pie-hole. And it’s ME that’s out of line?

Sure. That makes sense. Jesus.

And I say again – refusing to address the common sense politics is exactly why this kind of thing can happen over and over. There are 30 plus families grieving today because we don’t face the facts, because we don’t defend ourselves, because we let morons like Jaherer22 control the debate, because we’ve abandoned common sense for hypersensitivy and cultural relativism and moral apathy.

I’ve had enough.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 3:17 PM

According to the victim, he emptied a full round into the room, hitting between 10 to 15 people.

There’s no way this guy wasn’t trained. The first 3 rounds would have had everyone diving for the ground, sending most of a full clip into desks. Unless this was a large auditorium style classroom, which would explain the lack or delay of response by the students. But then, most auditorium style classrooms have their entrance at the back, which would have the desks providing cover for the students.

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 3:18 PM

If you listen to the audio in the video tape — that’s a shootout.

Too many rounds of different caliber fired simultaneosly to be just the shooter.

I could be wrong, but I’ve been in a few live fire situations.

Also, any word on the number of wounded? If he killed 32, the number of survivors could be very large.

mesablue on April 16, 2007 at 3:18 PM

Oh goddammit, here we go, the politics are already started, the gun grabbers are rubbing their hands in glee, and Jack Thompson’s on FNC right now trying to wage his little war on video games. And the press is gonna harass these poor students for weeks. Thast’s the worst part, the media doesn’t leave you alone when this happens.

Bad Candy on April 16, 2007 at 3:19 PM

I’m VERY well aware that pistols kill. My point being that 32 killed is ALOT, even when we are talking about someone using an assault rifle, much less a pistol. It’s incredible that he did this with just pistols, that’s all I’m saying.

SillyRyno on April 16, 2007 at 3:16 PM

Give him the reported 3 hours that he had, he could probably have done it, along with the chaining closed of the doors. One student reported he didn’t hear about it until 9:15 am, what was happening. He walked around campus, grabbed coffee with his girlfriend, and attended class. When he eventually did get an email, it didn’t specifically say what was happening, just that something “bad” had happened.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 3:19 PM

Fox says 28 wounded.

INC on April 16, 2007 at 3:19 PM

The gunshots in one of those videos were pretty spaced out. I think i heard one, then a few seconds, then four in succession slightly less than a second apart.

It bears out the line-up-and-execution reporting, I think.

I really wish we could hold off for a decent interval on the political discussion of this, but it doesn’t look like we’ll be spared. The gun control buzzards are wagging their fingers, and there’s always an asshole like Schmo at 2:01 to blame Muslims before any evidence comes in. Stuff was pretty confused for a long time after OKC and 9-11 (remember how we thought the death toll was 40,00 for a while?); I don’t really trust many of the facts we have because the cops can’t even tell a consistent story about whether they think these events were connected.

It doesn’t mean I haven’t thought along the same lines as many of you, nor that I don’t share the natural rage that this sort of thing brings out. It’s just, A: not the right time and B: sort of like debating the number of angels on the head of a pin until we get better information.

see-dubya on April 16, 2007 at 3:21 PM

BTW, what does everyone make of these several bomb threats that were sent to the engineering building?

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 3:07 PM

Perhaps to get people out of their rooms and out in the open?

shuzilla on April 16, 2007 at 3:21 PM

The name of the gunman, whom witnesses described as a young Asian man wearing a maroon cap and a black leather jacket, was not released. It was not immediately clear whether he shot himself or was killed by police.

Too weird. Why won’t they just name the gunman? This act seems very well-coordinated and premeditated: You have one event in a dorm, which draws all the police and security, and then a more major rampage in another building on the opposite side of campus, which the gunman has chained up. I find it hard to believe one person could do all that.

januarius on April 16, 2007 at 3:22 PM

Pistols generally wound, not kill. At least not kill outright.

It doesn’t matter what you are shot with. A bullet is a bullet. A higher velocity round may do more initial damage, but where you are shot matters much more than what you are shot with.

The students were trapped — the shooter had easy targets, unfortunately.

mesablue on April 16, 2007 at 3:23 PM

This exemplifies why it’s so hard to bring “security” to Iraq. If crazies want to kill people, it’s very hard to prevent it from happening in an open society.

Condolences and prayers to all the victims.

TallDave on April 16, 2007 at 3:23 PM

According to some reports, the 5 who were critical, have been moved, and are in stable condition, 2 in surgery.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 3:24 PM

Look, I would wait on information as regards to killed and wounded or as to waht happened. Information is almost always wrong for several hours when this happens.

Bad Candy on April 16, 2007 at 3:24 PM

This is really horrible.

You have to think that if there was no gun control that someone might have pop’ed this guy off early on and saved a lot of lives.

But of course I don’t think the MSM will spin it quite that way….

Gun control only means we (law abiding people) are all sitting ducks.

CrazyFool on April 16, 2007 at 3:25 PM

Here in Cleveland we had a 2003 shooting rampage at Case Western Reserve school of engineering. Disgrunteled student. For purposes of comparison, context, profiling, etc. Fewer victims, no suicide.

Buck Turgidson on April 16, 2007 at 3:25 PM

Debbie Schlussel has posted something about this.

bloggless on April 16, 2007 at 3:27 PM

Look, I would wait on information as regards to killed and wounded or as to waht happened. Information is almost always wrong for several hours when this happens.

Bad Candy on April 16, 2007 at 3:24 PM

You may well be right, and I hope you are.

Remember the 10,000 initially reported dead on 9/11 and the sky high death toll from the first reports on Katrina? Maybe the same thing is at play here, and the numbers are being duplicated or something.

I’m still having trouble believing one gunman could do all this. Maybe we’ll find out the numbers are way off.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 3:28 PM

Too weird. Why won’t they just name the gunman? This act seems very well-coordinated and premeditated: You have one event in a dorm, which draws all the police and security, and then a more major rampage in another building on the opposite side of campus, which the gunman has chained up. I find it hard to believe one person could do all that.

januarius on April 16, 2007 at 3:22 PM

They always wait awhile, they want to make sure that they have the right person(people?), their status, and to make sure they have their facts right. The police usually are well organized for this thing, and will enact their plan, slow and methodical, the schools are usually entirely ineffective and have NO plan for this sort of event.

Bad Candy on April 16, 2007 at 3:28 PM

The high kill rate does bother me as well. When I am calm and at the range I do fairly well but in a heated situation I can’t imagine the kind of accuracy this guy had.

It might be good to take down the “Dear Sister” post, IT’s not funny anymore.

My heart and prayers go out to the families.

DrM2B on April 16, 2007 at 3:29 PM

Debbie Schlussel has posted something about this.

bloggless on April 16, 2007 at 3:27 PM

She’s running with the Pakistani angle. I just don’t think she’s right, given that eyewitnesses describe him as Asian. To Americans, Asians are Oriental exclusively, even if that’s not the case in the U.K. If he were Indian or Pakistani, they would have described him as Middle-Eastern or Indian.

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 3:31 PM

A student says he arrived at the campus at 10:00, and it wasn’t sure what was going on.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 3:31 PM

Why the hell did Fox have Jack Thompson on to talk about this? He’s an idiot lawyer out to rid the world of violent videogames. How is he even relevant enough to let him come on and spew his nonsense when we don’t know any facts about the shooter beyond the fact that he is Asian?

Queasy on April 16, 2007 at 3:34 PM

Ameripundit, I just heard that as well. Surprising that they were still letting people on campus.

mesablue on April 16, 2007 at 3:34 PM

Great, Fox News just said they’re expecting Pres candidates to talk about it.

Obama said something, then got cut off….

ScottG on April 16, 2007 at 3:35 PM

Did anyone see Obama’s statement? Basically he said sh*t happens.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 3:36 PM

ABC Blotter already after ‘high capacity clip’ manufactures and sellers.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/04/lapse_of_federa.html

Limerick on April 16, 2007 at 3:36 PM

As long as this country is partially disarmed, the massacres will continue.

My money is on Indonesian or Malaysian moslem. The police are being too cagey about his identity … he’s dead.

Kristopher on April 16, 2007 at 3:36 PM

Yes blame the video games…lets not talk about personally responsibility.

EnochCain on April 16, 2007 at 3:36 PM

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