Report: At least 20 29 32 dead, 28 wounded in shooting at Virginia Tech; Update: Chinese man on student visa? Update: Two suspects?

posted at 12:28 pm on April 16, 2007 by Allahpundit

Good lord. I’ve been peeking at this story for hours and until a few minutes ago there was one reported dead and the gunman was in custody. Now the death toll is 22 and the gunman is supposedly dead too.

Standby.

Update: Apparently one of the cops said at the presser that many of the dead were students in classrooms. The gunman had an ammo vest on and was unloading at will.

Update: They think there’s only one shooter, but verrrry odd: “Local FOX affiliate WFXR-TV in Richmond reported that one shooting occurred between 7:15 a.m. and 7:30 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, and another at 10 a.m. at Norris Hall.”

Update: More oddness from Fox: “On April 13, the campus closed three of its academic halls after they received a letter stating that explosive devices were in the building. Classes were canceled for the remainder of the day. A bomb threat was also made against Torgerson Hall on April 2.”

Update: Someone told Fox — purely unconfirmed — that the suspect went into Norris Hall looking for his girlfriend, then lined a bunch of people up and shot them execution-style. The debate at the moment is what kind of weapon he must have had.

Update: The scene at Norris Hall:

vtech.jpg

Update: The press corps is already pushing Dana Perino about gun control. Drudge is pushing the other way.

Update: According to NBC, the killer used two 9mm handguns and killed himself. It’s officially the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history.

Update (Ian): Gun control talk at the WH briefing:

Update: Just got this from a reader who says it was posted on his VTech frat listserv. Grain of salt:

Zach just got back and he told us his story. he can tell u the details better but he deserves to be recognized immediately. He was in norris hall and heard the gunshots comign from down the hall. while others hid in the class room zach got up and got a few others to help him baracade the door with desks. He could hear the gunman coming down the hall opening doors n firing into class rooms. Zach then saw his door handle turn and the gun man tried to get in but zach slammed the door back shut, others then got up to help, trying to hold the door shut with desks. zach then said he heard the the gunman reload a new magazine and fired two shots directly through the door, luckily didnt hit anybody. the gunman then gave up an continued down the hall

Update: 29 now, says ABC News. Now Fox says it’s 32, according to federal sources.

Update: Virginia Tech’s college newspaper is posting bulletins here.

Update: CNN’s got video taken by someone on campus this morning. You can see the cops approaching the building and hear rounds being fired in the background. Apologies for the relatively long commercial; I’ll replace this with an embeddable clip once it pops up on LiveLeak or wherever. Click the image to watch. Update: Okay, replaced it with a video sans commercial.

Update: Thinking on the Margin has a map of the campus and notes that there’s quite a bit of distance between the two scenes of the crimes.

Update: Fox is hearing that the gunman might have chained the doors shut to stop people from escaping.

Update: According to WaPo, this is now the deadliest shooting spree of any kind, on campus or off, in American history. And if Wikipedia is right, it’s already the third worst in modern world history.

Update: It might not be relevant, but the Blotter’s found its angle and it’s sticking to it.

Update: Bush is going to speak at 4:15. I can’t imagine he’ll have anything interesting to say but we’ll have video. Here’s a description of the suspect from NBC and a suggestion that this wasn’t as random as it might seem:

The name of the gunman, whom witnesses described as a young Asian man wearing a maroon cap and a black leather jacket, was not released. It was not known if he was a student.

The man did not appear to be shooting at random, NBC News’ Pete Williams reported, quoting federal law enforcement officials. He appeared to have specifically targeted the two locations, a co-ed dormitory and a classroom in an engineering building.

Update: Drudge just linked to this video at LiveLeak from MSNBC of one of the shooting victims describing the gunman. According to the victim, he emptied a full magazine into the room, hitting between 10 to 15 people.

Update (Ian): A moment of silence in the House:

Update: ABC News is collecting eyewitness reactions. The V Tech administration is in for a world of trouble, it sounds like: “Communication from college? I checked my e-mail about 8:30…I went to my class as I usually would. By 8:30 no one was notified that something had happened at 7. We went onto a dangerous campus not knowing…”

Update (Ian): Obama makes a statement:

Update: More complaints about the university being slow to notify students after the first shooting:

“What happened today this was ridiculous,” student Jason Piatt told CNN. He said the first warning from the university of a shooting on campus came in an e-mail about two hours after the first deadly burst of gunfire. “While they’re sending out that e-mail, 22 more people got killed,” Piatt said.

Update: Dan Riehl‘s following rumors on the V Tech sports bulletin board that the shooter caught his girlfriend in bed with someone and shot both of them. That doesn’t make sense, though; how often do crimes of passion turn into spree killings?

Update: It’s 33 now, according to the president of V Tech.

Update: Dan’s theory makes more sense if you assume that the killer had been dumped recently by his GF and went to her dorm intending to kill her in the first place. In that case he might have planned the rampage beforehand.

Update (Ian): President Bush said the nation is “shocked and saddened” at a 4pm press conference:

Update: NBC is reporting that the first warning to students didn’t go out until the shooting in Norris Hall had begun:

About 9:15, the gunman chained the doors of the classroom building so his potential victims could not escape and police could not enter. Once inside There, he shot more than 50 people in multiple classrooms.

Not until 9:26 a.m. did the first warning to students and employees go out by e-mail, according to the time stamps on copies obtained by NBC News. By then, the shooting was over.

The first e-mail had few details. It said: “A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating.” The message warned students to be cautious and contact police about anything suspicious.

Maurice Hiller, a student, told The Associated Press that he went to a 9 a.m. class just two buildings away from the engineering building and that no warnings were coming over the outdoor public address system on campus at the time.

Update: VTech student Erin Sheehan was in German class when the killer opened the door and “peeked in”:

“It seemed so strange,” Sheehan said. “Because he peaked in twice, earlier in the lesson, like he was looking for someone, somebody, before he started shooting. But then we all heard something like drilling in the walls, and someone thought they sounded like bullets. That’s when we blockaded the door to stop anyone from coming in.”

“He was just a normal looking kid, Asian, but he had on a Boy Scout type outfit. He wore a tan button up vest, and this black vest, maybe it was for ammo or something.”

“I saw bullets hit people’s body,” Sheehan said.

Update: I read somewhere earlier that it’s only a 10 minute walk or so between the dorm and Norris Hall. Where did the killer go between 7:15 and 9?

Update: Why wasn’t the school shut down after the first shooting? “According to Dr. Charles Steger, president of Virginia Tech, the administration locked down Ambler Johnston Hall dormitory after the first shooting. But classes weren’t cancelled because it was believed to be a domestic dispute and campus police thought that the shooter had left the campus.”

Update: Sounds like the cops know who the killer is. The 7:30 press conference is coming up; maybe they’re about to reveal.

Investigators offered no motive for the attack, reports CBS News correspondent Bob Orr. Police have been working on identifying the suspect and say they expect to release the name in the coming hours. When asked if the gunman was a student, police say “something like that,” indicating that perhaps he was a teaching assistant, reports Orr.

Update: The cops are being awfully coy about not linking the first shooting to the second, insisting that they’re waiting for lab tests to come back. The Chicago Sun-Times claims to have a hot tip about the killer’s — or one of the killers’ — ID:

Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said.

Police believe three bomb threats on the campus last week may have been attempts by the man to test the campus’ security response, the source said.

Update: I’m utterly confused by the press conference. The cops claim they were speaking to a “person of interest” in the first shooting, who knew the two victims, when they got the word about the second shooting. They refuse to say whether that person has been ruled out yet.

Update: An interesting tip from reader Michael B. — there was a gun show in Roanoke County this weekend. Says Michael, he could have purchased anything he needed there with minimal background checks.

Update: Via Drudge, the Daily Mail embellishes the caught-in-bed theory: “He was said to have quarrelled in a dormitory with his girlfriend, whom he believed had been seeing another man. A student adviser was called to sort out the row. But the killer produced a gun and shot dead both his girlfriend and the adviser.”

Update: MSNBC says the “person of interest” is cooperating with police, is not in custody, and is not believed to be under suspicion. Federal and state cops all say they think it’s the work of a lone gunman.

Update: Early reports of two 9mm handguns appear to have been wrong. It was one 9mm and one .22.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 8

I just read an article recently (maybe linked from here, can’t remember) about how Gun Free Zones at colleges actually HURT the students, rather than help. Law abiding citizens cannot carry guns to protect themselves, so only people who don’t give a hoot about “Gun Free Zone” laws get to run around campus raping…and now murdering.

If just one person had had a gun, maybe only 1 or 2 people would be dead instead of 20+.

It’s such a shame. I’m in Northern VA and I have friends whose children are down there. I can only imagine how frantic they must be right now.

CookeyD on April 16, 2007 at 1:35 PM

Pray, Pray Pray

EricPWJohnson on April 16, 2007 at 1:36 PM

Here’s the FoxNews article:

CookeyD on April 16, 2007 at 1:36 PM

Ok, that didn’t work. I obviously don’t know how to do this

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,264896,00.html

CookeyD on April 16, 2007 at 1:37 PM

Massacre at Virginia Tech: 29 Confirmed Dead

By DAVID SCHOETZ, NED POTTER, and the staff of ABC News

Apr. 16, 2007— At least 29 people are dead in what may be the biggest mass killing on a college campus in American history — and the death toll may rise.

Police at Virginia Tech, in Blaksburg, Va., said that the shootings happened at a dormitory and a classroom on opposite sides of the university campus.

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 1:38 PM

Up until Monday, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history took place in 1966 at the University of Texas, where Charles Whitman climbed to the 28th-floor observation deck of a clock tower and opened fire. He killed 16 people before he was gunned down by police.

Damn.

Kai on April 16, 2007 at 1:40 PM

How is it even possible that one gunman could kill so many people?

Why do we let this happen?

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 1:40 PM

WFAA (ABC Dallas) just reported 32 dead. Don’t know what their source is. Typical local news hit-and-run report.

Limerick on April 16, 2007 at 1:40 PM

32 Now Confirmed Dead, according to Fox News.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 1:41 PM

Abc News is also now up to 32

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 1:41 PM

How is it even possible that one gunman could kill so many people?

Why do we let this happen?

By not enforcing the second ammendment.

JayHaw Phrenzie on April 16, 2007 at 1:43 PM

the killer used two 9mm handguns and killed himself.

This makes me angry. If he wanted to go, why did he feel he had to take so many with him? I guess I am supposed to be compassionate for the “troubled” man who couldn’t find peace. But all I can think is ‘what a m*f*er. Have the guts to do yourself in without slaughtering so many along the way.’ What a waste.

Mallard T. Drake on April 16, 2007 at 1:43 PM

Fox reports that there were 2 HOURS between the two shooting spurts!?

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 1:47 PM

The man who was in handcuffs was a reported for the Collegiate Times.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 1:47 PM

Law enforcement sources tell ABC News the shooting may have been set off by an off-campus incident. Details were unclear.

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 1:48 PM

I used to frequent the Lubys’ cafeteria in Killeen Tx. I purchased my first weapon in response to that tragedy. Home defense is one thing. It’s time to raise my level of preparedness. Thanks for the words of encouragement.

Buck Turgidson on April 16, 2007 at 1:48 PM

There was a shooting/murder/suicide at the U of WA at the beginning of the month. If the victim was so inclined, she could have been armed just about anywhere in the state, except where she was murdered.

rw on April 16, 2007 at 1:55 PM

The Killeen massacre was credited with prompting the passage of Texas CHL law. My only hope is that right minded people pursue the right path during the healing process.
(I still need to get mine)

32 fatalities… holy sh1t. :( I still can’t wrap my mind around that.

Kai on April 16, 2007 at 1:55 PM

ABC radio talking head said the shooter is among the victims.

JammieWearingFool on April 16, 2007 at 1:55 PM

At least 4 of the wounded are in critical condition.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 1:56 PM

I guess I am supposed to be compassionate for the “troubled” man who couldn’t find peace.

Your compassion should be with the poor families of those students. Their suffering is undeserved.

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 1:58 PM

The AP is already trying to spin this and juxtapose quotes to hurt President Bush: (from 3 minutes ago)

A White House spokesman said President Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia.

“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed,” spokeswoman Dana Perino said

Liberals are again attempting to use a terrible tragedy for political gain.

januarius on April 16, 2007 at 1:59 PM

I’m I hearing this right? Something like SIXTY people were shot?

Again – how is that possible?

I’m with the rest of you. Time to arm myself. And !#$%@ the carry and conceal laws.

I’ll be damned if I’m going to find myself or my family in a situation like this – with no way to defend them.

This. Does. Not. Have. To. Happen.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 1:59 PM

Given that Beslan happened and US schools, both at the local and state level are not (or do not appear to be) prepared to handle targeted attacks, it is time to get schools some type of defensive funding, even if it falls under department of homeland security. At this time, schools are not considered part of the national critical infrastructure like ports, chemical plants, transportation, power, etc.

Schools need to train and drill how to respond to this type of attack.

BelchSpeak on April 16, 2007 at 2:00 PM

Yeah, I screencapped that photo awhile ago but won’t run it until we hear more. Everyone says the gunman is dead. I think the photo shows an innocent man.

Allahpundit on April 16, 2007 at 1:17 PM

That guy is an innocent reporter, released moments after the photo was taken.

shooter on April 16, 2007 at 2:00 PM

Did somebody hear someone shouting ALAHU AKBAR

Schmo on April 16, 2007 at 2:01 PM

MSNBC has a video up of a young man who was shot by the gunman and gives his account

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:01 PM

Pray for the victims, their families, and especially those who are wounded and fighting for their lives.

This is absolutely sickening.

flutejpl on April 16, 2007 at 2:03 PM

Wouldn’t it take some kind of training to have 32 fatalities with one shooter armed only with pistols? I just don’t understand how this can happen.

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 2:03 PM

The shock is just setting in. All I can say is that all of Virginia’s forty-nine sisters weep and offer whatever comfort we can. I wish to God there was some way to make this all go away.

Limerick on April 16, 2007 at 2:06 PM

ABC radio talking head said the shooter is among the victims.

JammieWearingFool on April 16, 2007 at 1:55 PM

Man, I hate the MSM.

Buck Turgidson on April 16, 2007 at 2:06 PM

I heard that it was a 9mm, can anyone confirm?

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on April 16, 2007 at 2:07 PM

Wouldn’t it take some kind of training to have 32 fatalities with one shooter armed only with pistols? I just don’t understand how this can happen.

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 2:03 PM

Do we know he only had a pistol, I just assumed an automatic weapon of some kind. Notice I’ve also assumed a “he”. God help us.

honora on April 16, 2007 at 2:08 PM

At 7:15 a.m. Monday, a 911 call came in to the campus police department concerning an incident at West Ambler Johnston, a residence hall, and that there were multiple shooting victims, Steger said. While that investigation was underway, a second shooting was reported in Norris Hall, located at the opposite end of the 2,600-acre campus.

Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said at least one person was killed at West Ambler Johnston, a residence hall, but several others were injured in that shooting. At least 20 were killed in classrooms in Norris Hall, an engineering building, Flinchum said.

Flinchum said the Norris Hall gunman was dead, but wouldn’t say whether the shooter killed himself.

Virginia Tech’s Web site earlier said one shooter was in custody and officials searched for a second shooter as “part of routine police procedure,” but during the press conference Monday, police said they believe there was only one shooter.

Police also said there is no evidence that the two shootings at opposite ends of campus were related.

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:08 PM

Disregard, I missed it on the first pass…

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on April 16, 2007 at 2:08 PM

The audio on the cell phone video seems distorted, almost slowed down, but that doesn’t sound like 9mm rounds.

thebrokenchair on April 16, 2007 at 2:10 PM

This is starting to sound like Columbine with the immense time involved while the killer goes crazy and people are being killed.

What could possibly take so long to stop this kind of killing rampage? Especially 2 hours after the campus had to be full of cops, within moments from the building.
At Columbine it took to cops almost 4 hours to get to the library, where the killers had been dead for 3 hours of that ‘searching’ time. ( it is a confusing school architecture, but not 3 hours confusing)
I’m a little pissed here, but is it their motto “to serve and protect” UNLESS someone is shooting people randomly.. or perhaps the shooter might shoot back?????
HOW? could this go on?

shooter on April 16, 2007 at 2:10 PM

sorry that was from fox news

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:10 PM

Wouldn’t it take some kind of training to have 32 fatalities with one shooter armed only with pistols?

The high ratio of killed to wounded would certainly indicate some degree training, not mention a certain degree of deliberation.

RedWinged Blackbird on April 16, 2007 at 2:11 PM

Virginia Tech’s Web site earlier said one shooter was in custody and officials searched for a second shooter as “part of routine police procedure,” but during the press conference Monday, police said they believe there was only one shooter.

Police also said there is no evidence that the two shootings at opposite ends of campus were related.

I’d say that it’s a bit impossible for both of those statements to be true.

Gregor on April 16, 2007 at 2:11 PM

Stalker. Damn it!

Buck Turgidson on April 16, 2007 at 2:12 PM

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 1:59 PM

I’m afraid your right, Blather. Time for some civil disobedience regarding concealed carry laws.

PRCalDude on April 16, 2007 at 2:12 PM

Do we know he only had a pistol, I just assumed an automatic weapon of some kind. Notice I’ve also assumed a “he”. God help us.

honora on April 16, 2007 at 2:08 PM

I believe you’re correct on both points.

Update: According to NBC, the killer used two 9mm handguns and killed himself. It’s officially the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history.

The eyewitness video on NBC linked above confirms that it was a mid-20s Asian male.

It looks like he just went from class to class shooting from the door, Columbine style. It still seems strange that he would be able to kill (as opposed to seriously wound) so many in such a short amount of time.

None of this makes any sense.

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 2:14 PM

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

JayHaw Phrenzie on April 16, 2007 at 2:14 PM

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

JayHaw Phrenzie on April 16, 2007 at 2:14 PM

Money Quote

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 2:15 PM

More from Fox

The students and faculty were barricading themselves in their classrooms after what one person described as an Asian student wearing a vest opened fire.

The shooter was “wearing a vest covered in clips was just unloading on their door, going from classroom to classroom … they said it never seemed like it was going to stop and there was just blood all over,” Harrison said.

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:16 PM

We are saddened by this senseless slaughter.

We are even more saddened to see that Virginia Tech President Charles Steger has already elected to call what has happened today a tragedy.

This same word was used many times by many people to describe the horrific events of 9/11.

The definition of words is important.

We note once again that an atrocity is not a tragedy.

This is an atrocity.

The proper response for a tragedy is grief.

The proper response for an atrocity is rage.

The good V Tech president who also supported the defeat of a bill intended to allow properly licensed faculty, staff and students to be able to carry their registered legal firearms on campus, has also scheduled plenty of grief counseling for the “tragedy”.

The only thing tragic about this incident is that one armed citizen could have stopped this atrocity before it happened.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8OHR3800&show_article=1

That’s not political, it is plain common sense.

My heart goes out to all who are affected, along with prayers, of course.

.

The Machine on April 16, 2007 at 2:16 PM

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

JayHaw Phrenzie on April 16, 2007 at 2:14 PM

If I’m forced to use my techically illegal concealed weapon to protect my family – or some perfect strangers – I’m not really going to care much what the local prosecutor does to me afterwards. I’ll just be glad there is an afterwards.

In this part of the country, they’d probably acquit me anyway.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 2:17 PM

The Second Amendment is secondary here. Thi guy could have been stopped even without another gun on the campus, if the faculty and students had the right attitude. That attitude is NOT the attitude of just sit there like sheeple and let yourself get shot. This would have stopped with far fewer casualties if the first classroom-full of students had bum-rushed the guy as soon as he started shooting, and then piled on him and stayed on him until armed help arrived.

It is a shame that this should be taught to college kids (and high schoolers, too), but it is more obvious than ever that this is one area where our children must be grown up earlier than their parents. Armed or not, everyone MUST take responsibility for their defense and the defense of the persons to their left and right.

Lancer on April 16, 2007 at 2:17 PM

It looks like he just went from class to class shooting from the door…

No way. You don’t get 50+% kill doing that.

RedWinged Blackbird on April 16, 2007 at 2:18 PM

I’ve fortunately never been around any shooting and hope I never am, but….according to the news reports, this killer started his rampage and the students were told that something was happening, but not what it was!

What is it about our so-called “leaders” that they refuse to tell us what is going on? Students were told an “incident” happened after the earlier shooting but not evacuated. Why do those in charge refuse to let us do anything in our own defense?

How horrible to be lined up and have no idea or urge to do anything about it! We’ve been neutered. We’ve been kept out of the loop, we’ve been made sheep, not citizens. Shameful. Shame on us too, for letting this happen.

Murder happening before their very eyes and no one with the ability to do anything about it.

The usual suspects will blame guns, and gun owners, but the true blame for actions like this belongs to those who demand we have no way to protect ourselves. They will try to make hay out of the deaths, they are they ones responsible for each murder. Those who demand we disarm ourselves are aiding those who would kill us.

Repeal all gun laws, arm all citizens!

ScottG on April 16, 2007 at 2:19 PM

FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, “but all avenues will be explored.”

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:19 PM

Armed or not, everyone MUST take responsibility for their defense and the defense of the persons to their left and right.

Lancer on April 16, 2007 at 2:17 PM

Jumping on a grenade is a trait that very few outside of the military have.

- The Cat

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 2:20 PM

Wouldn’t it take some kind of training to have 32 fatalities with one shooter armed only with pistols?

The high ratio of killed to wounded would certainly indicate some degree training, not mention a certain degree of deliberation.

RedWinged Blackbird on April 16, 2007 at 2:11 PM

Unopposed. That’s the key. Sight picture can be taught in a minute. If a shooter is unopposed for, I gather, hours then…

Stephen M on April 16, 2007 at 2:20 PM

Heard some reports that he went to a class and did execution style shots to the back of the head then went down the hallway shooting as he did

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:20 PM

That’s not political, it is plain common sense.

The Machine on April 16, 2007 at 2:16 PM

I agree 100%.

I understand the calls to save the politics for later. Most of the time, I’d agree – and probably be saying it myself.

But the truth is that its way, way past time for some honest, blunt discussions about a lot of issues. Avoiding those issues is exactly how days like today happen.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 2:21 PM

This is why gun control kills. Had VA allowed concealed carry on campus, this tragedy could have been stopped before dozens were killed. Absolutely senseless. My heart goes out to the students, families, and friends.

KSgop on April 16, 2007 at 2:21 PM

if the first classroom-full of students had bum-rushed the guy as soon as he started shooting, and then piled on him and stayed on him until armed help arrived.

Lancer on April 16, 2007 at 2:17 PM

I’d suggest they do a lot more than “pile on him until help arrived.” There shouldn’t be much left of him by that time.

Gregor on April 16, 2007 at 2:23 PM

Lancer on April 16, 2007 at 2:17 PM:

That attitude is NOT the attitude of just sit there like sheeple and let yourself get shot. This would have stopped with far fewer casualties if the first classroom-full of students had bum-rushed the guy as soon as he started shooting, and then piled on him and stayed on him until armed help arrived.

You are so right. That attitude is one of courage and not stopping to count the personal cost, but taking action to stop an atrocity.

INC on April 16, 2007 at 2:23 PM

NBC’s Pete Williams said two law enforcement officials told him the gunman killed himself. They also said the gunman used a 9-mm handgun and a .22-caliber pistol during the rampage, Williams reported. He said the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms was trying to track the weapons.

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:23 PM

OH crap !

Officials also suspect that the gunman had chained the doors of the classroom building to prevent victims from fleeing.

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:24 PM

The good V Tech president who also supported the defeat of a bill intended to allow properly licensed faculty, staff and students to be able to carry their registered legal firearms on campus

The Machine on April 16, 2007 at 2:16 PM

I hope Michelle (and others) shout this when appearing on the MSM.

MirCat on April 16, 2007 at 2:24 PM

What is it about our so-called “leaders” that they refuse to tell us what is going on? Students were told an “incident” happened after the earlier shooting but not evacuated. Why do those in charge refuse to let us do anything in our own defense?

How horrible to be lined up and have no idea or urge to do anything about it! We’ve been neutered. We’ve been kept out of the loop, we’ve been made sheep, not citizens. Shameful. Shame on us too, for letting this happen.

Murder happening before their very eyes and no one with the ability to do anything about it.

The usual suspects will blame guns, and gun owners, but the true blame for actions like this belongs to those who demand we have no way to protect ourselves. They will try to make hay out of the deaths, they are they ones responsible for each murder. Those who demand we disarm ourselves are aiding those who would kill us.

Repeal all gun laws, arm all citizens!

ScottG on April 16, 2007 at 2:19 PM

I agree. With every word.

Somebody in the last couple days posted a great comment that outlined the evolution (devolution?) of a society from hard-won freedom to apathy and complacency … whoever you were, could you post it again?

I should have printed it out. I’ve been thinking about it all day.

It goes well with ScottG’s comment above … and with what we’re letting happen in our country.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 2:26 PM

I work out of Norris Hall. I fortunately was stuck at the airport on my way out of town. I am staff and support the faculty in Norris, Randolph, and Hancock (and a few others). I was not there and according to what my bosses have told me, no one was injured in my departments (The Dean’s Suite and Financial). This is according to what I have heard.

Also, the college of engineering attracts a lot of Asian students so the reports that the murderer was Asian could be true.

zerodamage on April 16, 2007 at 2:26 PM

Another good case for conceal / carry and law abiding citizens.

Prayers & sympathies to the dead, wounded & their families.

Was the shooter a muslim?

I’m just askin’….

locomotivebreath1901 on April 16, 2007 at 2:28 PM

I don’t know that the distance between shootings makes any difference. The time lag was such the distance could be easily traversed, even without a car. When I was in college I could really hustle from one end to the other to make classes.

INC on April 16, 2007 at 2:29 PM

I consider myself pretty moderate on gun issues and think it is ridiculous to claim that lenient gun control laws had anything to do with this shooting.

That said, it is also absurd to think that if every VT student was issued a handgun along with their dorm keys this wouldn’t have happened.

JaHerer22 on April 16, 2007 at 2:30 PM

Do we know he only had a pistol, I just assumed an automatic weapon of some kind. Notice I’ve also assumed a “he”. God help us.

honora on April 16, 2007 at 2:08 PM

Honora, that’s the problem with non gun owners and those who immediately blame guns.

You assumed automatic weapons. You mean a crew served weapon? A BAR? A Tommy gun? An Uzi?

Handguns can carry quite a few rounds and extra magazines can give someone many, many rounds. They’re also more concealable. No one could get far carrying an automatic weapon. But handguns are different.

ScottG on April 16, 2007 at 2:30 PM

Bottom line is the coward pulled the weapon(s) because there was no danger of being stopped by another weapon. He/She/IT had the power. All the power. If there was the slightest chance that someone in the university would have shot the SOB he never would have tried it.

Limerick on April 16, 2007 at 2:31 PM

Prof B, I remember it. Wade posted it on the FL illegal aliens thread:

At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The University of Edinborough) had this to say about “The Fall of The Athenian Republic” some 2,000 years prior.

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.”

“The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.”

Wade on April 15, 2007 at 7:48 PM

INC on April 16, 2007 at 2:31 PM

They also said the gunman used a 9-mm handgun and a .22-caliber pistol during the rampage, Williams reported.

A 22 pistol? That doesn’t produce fatalities on this scale, not unless the shooter was at point-blank range.

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 2:32 PM

Kill the snark and the poltics this is not the time…

Theworldisnotenough on April 16, 2007 at 2:33 PM

This whole thing is insane.

EnochCain on April 16, 2007 at 2:33 PM

I consider myself pretty moderate on gun issues and think it is ridiculous to claim that lenient gun control laws had anything to do with this shooting.

That said, it is also absurd to think that if every VT student was issued a handgun along with their dorm keys this wouldn’t have happened.

JaHerer22 on April 16, 2007 at 2:30 PM

Right. Because it’s just plain ridiculous to suggest that had a few armed, trained students or staff been present, the killer might not have managed to shoot SIXTY people.

You’re ridiculous. Truly.

Now shut the hell up, dipshit. Adults are talking.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 2:34 PM

My sympathy and prayers to the victims and their friends and families.

I’m in no mood for a stinking gun control debate. The victims are still wet with their own blood for crying out loud. Now is not the time for it IMO.

Yakko77 on April 16, 2007 at 2:34 PM

The proper response for an atrocity is rage.
The Machine on April 16, 2007 at 2:16 PM

Amen Mac. Fox reports he was looking for ex-girlfriend. Effing Bastard!

Buck Turgidson on April 16, 2007 at 2:34 PM

Point taken. My anger got the best of me (again).

Limerick on April 16, 2007 at 2:35 PM

Not saying this has anything to do with Asian/Muslim/Islam, but IF it does … it might be a while IF and when we ever find out. IF this shooter was Muslim, you can guarantee they’re holding frantic meetings right now, trying to figure out how to avoid a violent backlash upon the Muslim community. The slaughter of over 30 American college students is simply not going to go without a response, if this does indeed turn out to be related to Islam.

The conflicting info being given by law enforcement does tend to draw suspicion. We were given the same exact type of bogus reporting after the Muslim finished running over Jews in San Francisco.

Gregor on April 16, 2007 at 2:36 PM

INC:

That was it. Thank you.

It’s past time for us to look at Wade’s post and have a serious and sober discussion about it.

This *is* the time to talk politics. Sorry. Our failure to fix so many things let this happen. Even after Columbine, nothing changed. Hell, even after 9/11, nothing changed.

Something has to change. If we don’t do it, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Stop. Think. This guy shot SIXTY people, unopposed.

We need to do something about it. I say it again: this. did. not. have. to. happen.

Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 2:38 PM

zerodamage on April 16, 2007 at 2:26 PM

Good to hear about you and your department, zd. About the ethnicity of the shooter, it’s very difficult for me to believe that this shooter could be a visaed Asian student. They just don’t have the connections to be able to get firearms, no matter what their situation. International students are watched like hawks these days.

I’m curious now about his nationality, if he happens to be an international student.

spmat on April 16, 2007 at 2:38 PM

That said, it is also absurd to think that if every VT student was issued a handgun along with their dorm keys this wouldn’t have happened.

JaHerer22 on April 16, 2007 at 2:30 PM

Really? You actually believe a man could shoot 60 some-odd people before getting shot, if every student had a handgun? That’s a good imagination you’ve got there.

Gregor on April 16, 2007 at 2:39 PM

If there was the slightest chance that someone in the university would have shot the SOB he never would have tried it.

Limerick on April 16, 2007 at 2:31 PM

That is pure speculation; you haven’t one shred of evidence that is true.

I’m sorry but if I hear gunshots I don’t think I’d feel safer if 100 panicky college students all pull their own heat out thinking they are Jack Bauer trying to save the day. When there is a scene of mass chaos, students running around scared not knowing who is being shot and why, I don’t think adding more guns to equation would create anything but more fear and confusion.

JaHerer22 on April 16, 2007 at 2:40 PM

The say is no proof that shooter was a student

William Amos on April 16, 2007 at 2:40 PM

Now shut the hell up, dipshit. Adults are talking.
Professor Blather on April 16, 2007 at 2:34 PM

You are out of line. Can you guys suppress your politics for just a few more hours, please?

SouthernDem on April 16, 2007 at 2:40 PM

If every student had a handgun, that shooter wouldn’t have shot off more than a round, before he fell to the ground with holes in him.

amerpundit on April 16, 2007 at 2:41 PM

Regarding William Amos’ Post:
“Virginia Tech’s Web site earlier said one shooter was in custody and officials searched for a second shooter as “part of routine police procedure,” but during the press conference Monday, police said they believe there was only one shooter.
Police also said there is no evidence that the two shootings at opposite ends of campus were related.”

If the two shootings are unrelated, how can there only have been one shooter?

(I know William is only quoting, and I know that the police are under pressure at this moment, but this just seems, self evidently, strange.)

Blaise on April 16, 2007 at 2:43 PM

Considering that Columbine caused Rosie O’Donnell to stay in bed with a deep depression and become the inflamed moonbat she is- should she be put on suicide watch?

And what will be the title of Michael Moore’s next movie?

BelchSpeak on April 16, 2007 at 2:43 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 8