Including steel fibers is partly the reason it approaches the strength of steel and the test becomes more of a tensile strength test not compressive strength test. Playing word games — including steel fibers in the mix and calling the concrete nonreinforced — does not impress me. The purpose of the research and the tests to advance the science of cement and aggregate mixtures, not steel reinforcement of concrete, and if that threshold is violated, 50k or 60k “concrete” is a no-brainer. But tech for 15k or 20k concrete is there when needed for construction.

And that’s the key word in all of this — construction. It’s one thing to make a 2′x 2′ block of concrete with that strength for a laboratory competition and another to build something out of it. I won’t disparage anyone’s construction industry, as a quick perusal of our own, which I have great respect for, gives me justification for not being at all worried about Iran’s (or, for that matter Russia’s when they’re building something for Iran).

And yes, I do understand that we are losing in Iraq because of Iranian arms, etc, etc. etc.

Now if we could just get the liberals to put the same amount of effort into fighting terrorists as they put in to trying to take Rove down, we’d be out of Iraq in no time. Just sayin’…

Unfortunately, we can not discuss the actual capabilities of the MOP due to security concerns. Suffice to say that the numbers on the Global Security website were not provided by DTRA [Defense Threat Reduction Agency] or the AFRL/MN.

The bottom line is that any highly reinforced target might withstand one strike from a MOP, but even a bunker roof made of 60,000 psi concrete can be chipped away at until it finally fails to protect what’s underneath.

I believe the bomb will be ready by mid-spring. Live testing will at the new “proving grounds” in central Iran (I hope).

I like the image of wild boar better. First you send a hundred C-130’s over spraying a fine mist of bacon grease and then airdrop a few thousand wild pigs on them. And maybe a few pitbulls too, just to keep it interesting.

Thousands of Pitbulls in little parachutes all trained to enjoy the taste of Iranian flesh.

It could happen.

Hening on April 13, 2007 at 5:57 PM

Yeah, that’s how the 2nd Zombie War started. Won’t we ever learn from our mistakes.

It could happen.

So were the Japanese caves on Iwo. Amazing what collapsing 500 feet of entrance tunnel will do.

That’s what I was thinking. Plus, it will need outside resources to remain running. It doesn’t matter if you can’t destroy the facility if nobody can use it.

And as others pointed out, concrete is very strong vs. compressive force, but fairly weak vs. tensile force (that’s why reinforcing rods are used). Concussions from a bomb would present both forms of stress which could weaken or crumble the structure. Just peel off a few inches at a time…

Now if the sole purpose of the bunker is shelter … to keep certain high priority people alive so they can perform some vital function, you can mitigate that as well. If they can not communicate with the world outside the shelter, then they are in effect in a cell. If you can prevent them from exiting the shelter, you have imprisoned them in their own bastion.

So there are several ways to get around it. You can attack it from directions and in ways it was not designed for, you can isolate it, and you can make the area outside of the bunker so unsafe that the occupants can’t venture out. So you have effectively neutralized the bunker without a direct penetration of it. In fact, you could force an enemy to expend valuable resources in defending a useless bunker for quite a long time.

Ain’t no way in the hot place they made 60 ksi concrete. The quoted individual thinks the aggregate was quartz–whooopeee. The sidewalk outside your house probably has some quartz in it as well. It’s not an unusual mineral to find in aggregate. Maybe if the entire mix design was steel fibers they might get really high strengths, but not 60 ksi.

Under dynamic loading, the physical properties of concrete are actually higher than when tested at a steady but slow rate, so the real “strength” under impact would be greater. But the challenges of high strength concrete are many, including getting the concrete to not self destruct under the heat of hydration as it sets. I’ve not used anything over 6000 psi, but there have been projects in the US that have used up to 20,000 if I’m not mistaken.

Oh, and also also, concrete does not increase in strength by orders of magnitude over time. Yes it gets stronger, but not 10 or 100 times stronger. The guy sounds like a sophomore engineering student who had a concrete materials lab and got all excited.

I was trying to think of a clever way of saying “You completely missed the Point”

*shrug*

Buzzy: Ummmm…when conservatives have no argument they go back to Clinton. He hasn’t been prez for six years. Ummmm…last I checked, the intel wasn’t good enough for him to invade. He bombed saddam a few times for firing missiles in the no-fly zone and for booting inspectors out. Never invaded though. Wasn’t really a threat to us.

Amerpundit: The dems were dumbasses too on this Iraq thing. They gave the conservatives power to invade. Then the conservatives invaded (like morons) and bungled the whole damned thing.

Amerpundit: (I get to answer two of yours). Still no proof. The EU says a lot of things. Like Saddam having an active WMD program. Remember that one? The Russians? Come on! You believe the KGB? The IAEA can’t confirm that it’s for peaceful purposes. Conservative speak: “GUILTY!!!” Wow. Can’t prove what the program for? Convincing. And UN resolutions? That proves guilt.

mmmm…kool-aid… mmmmm…

Hey honora, slide the goalposts a little more this way.

Kai on April 13, 2007 at 4:43 PM

I hate to see a good insult or smarty pants remark go to waste, so I am sad to tell you, I don’t know what this means. Sports analogies are not my thing, sorry.

I had no idea you were such a fan of Ted and Nancy and Bill and John K. Go figure.

honora on April 13, 2007 at 4:31 PM

Hey honora, slide the goalposts a little more this way.

I wonder if we can fly a UCAV with a really big explosive into the complex. All those vids of Smart-Weapons going through windows now makes a whole lotta sense to me. (Give Capt Apollo an unguarded access shaft and he’ll make it happen)

Besides, assuming we have Air Superiority, we can pound on that thing all day long. I’m sure we’ve got plenty of inventory of the bigger 1,000lbs+ bombs sitting around.

amerpundit on April 13, 2007 at 4:07 PM

I had no idea you were such a fan of Ted and Nancy and Bill and John K. Go figure.

Certainly, you can argue that the equipment would be undamaged, but if a thermobaric bomb snuffs out all the oxygen within before the tunnel and shaft entrances are collapsed, Iran would lose the brainpower needed to make their systems work, and I’m not led to believe they have a lot of nuclear scientists and technicians laying around as spares.

“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

“We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction.”
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998

“He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.”
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

“[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.”
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998

Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

“Hussein has … chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.”
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them.”
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.”
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

“We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.”
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

Source.

amerpundit on April 13, 2007 at 4:02 PM

**cue image of shackler with eyes closed, fingers in ears, saying, “la la la la la I can’t hear you la la la la la I can’t hear you……**