Bryan on April 10, 2007 at 2:22 PM

Good post and thread. With the time you spent in the military as well as the contractor experience I’m sure you’ve met enough engineers and scientists to realize that when it comes to a “vision thing” it is not normally found in these really intelligent folks.
This is where a national leader needs to do something similar to what Kennedy did about going to the moon. Challenge all the NASA guys with a clear dream and they will perform absolute miracles. This also makes it a little more acceptable for the citizens at large to understand and accept that some risk is involved in getting there.

Sorry… you’re right. There hasn’t been a UN panel of politicians to declare it as consensus yet — therefore, no science.

/barf

db on April 10, 2007 at 3:41 PM

Late to the dance again………… “Mr. Data, Station Salem One, if you please, Warp Factor 5…….. Engage!”

Seriously, NASA is invaluable at developing rockets, aircraft, communications equipment, and a whole host of other scientific and technological apparati. But they do stuff like this to get John Q. Public excited and raise their budgets. This is science, no doubt, but science of little practical use.

cmay on April 10, 2007 at 6:17 PM

If science is too concerned with practical use, it becomes engineering. If Hubble is providing breakthrough discoveries in astronomy, then it’s doing it’s job. Hubble’s success is actually a good argument against the manned space program; most of the big science news lately has come from the much less costly JPL programs.

There is a long history of Christian thought regarding the nobility of scientific inquiry. Creation is God’s work, and through science we learn more about that work. Therefore astronomy brings us closer to understanding the ways of God, even if it doesn’t yield any economic benefits. Those of my co-religionists who want to reflexively knock scientists need to consider that before they toss a snark about Darwin into the conversation.

There are many legitimate debates about how much the government should spend on Nasa’s mission — and even more debate about what that mission really is these days. These questions could form a national referendum on what it means to be a great nation that attempts great things, such as the original Apollo missions.

Since we live in deeply unserious times, my prediction is that Nasa continues to die the death of a thousand budget cuts.

Just wait, the MSM will interview some lib in bib overalls saying:

“We hafta fix the problems down here be’for we go out there.”

Kini

Uh-oh…and I almost put that in my last comment…*hides*

I actually think life is going to turn out to be rather rare in the universe. At least, that’s the course we’re on now. Most of the galaxy can’t support life-bearing planets for one reason or another. The areas that can seem to be dominated by solar systems that can’t support life as we know it. Our own solar system only has one rock that can do the job, and its layout is weird. Jupiter shouldn’t be where it is, but if it wasn’t there we wouldn’t be here.

Bryan on April 10, 2007 at 3:04 PM

All true, and that’s only scratching the surface… let’s not even get in to what our planet would be like if the moon and/or sun were slightly closer or further away. Let’s not note what a “coincidence” it is that they appear the same size in our sky, etc. etc. etc. etc.

But this makes it all the more annoying that they throw in this obligatory and baseless line:

The discovery, announced today, means one of the most crucial elements for life as we know it can exist around planets orbiting other stars.

As always I have to tell our Darwinian friends, this isn’t science, THIS IS ASSUMPTION.

By the way, I think I’ll wait for more concrete evidence before I even buy any of what they’re telling us about this planet in the first place. We’ve been shocked by discoveries in our own solar system repeatedly over the last few years, becasue our assumptions were based on evolutionary time tables. Start with the activity on Io and Enceladus that should be frozen lumps. How about when Deep Impact hit comet Temple 1 and left people scratching their heads?

I just think we need to hold off all of this hooplah until we get solid evidence for claims made about supposed discoveries in space, because more often than not the assumption is totally wrong. Folks also need to keep in mind that these scientists, like archaelogists, need to prove they’re getting somewhere and that they’re worth funding. Follow the money.

There is a lot of spin off technology to be sure. And I’ve seen techniques that backyard astronomers can use to find exoplanets. But goodness gracious, NASA is just another hole that we throw money down. At least they could teach their more homicidally inclined astronauts how to use a rest stop rather than adult diapers. Or at least develop a miniaturized makeup kit that they could use before mug shots. That would be a better use of our tax dollars.

Seriously, NASA is invaluable at developing rockets, aircraft, communications equipment, and a whole host of other scientific and technological apparati. But they do stuff like this to get John Q. Public excited and raise their budgets. This is science, no doubt, but science of little practical use.

I actually think life is going to turn out to be rather rare in the universe.

I think the same…rare, but not impossible. I also believe we all, no matter our backrounds, want to be alive to hear the day that life, in any form, exists elsewhere in the universe. For the most part, I hope it’s not intelligent…and if it is, would it rock the very foundation of religion?

And as has been brought up in the comments above, we are seeing most of the vast universe as it existed a looong time ago. We’ll get to Mars soon enough too…it really wasn’t long ago in grand scheme of things we didn’t even have TV! Or even far shorter, this thing called the internet.

I have always wondered if perhaps we are the most advanced form of life in the universe…and it will be, one day in the far-off future, humans who will be the “UFO’s” on other planets…

I’ve always been fascinated by space, not because I have any interest or relevant knowledge about science but more out of a childish awe. I’m also a firm believer that we are not alone in the universe, so the development of a discovery of water on a….

http://www.energybulletin.net/192.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/04/0426_042602_TVmoonenergy.html

The only way we are going to get permanent colonies in space is if they are: one, politico-militarily worthwhile, or two, economically profitable. Oddly enough, our own technology works against colonization, as computers and remote control make it much easier and cheaper to run operations without the expense and danger of actually putting people in space and providing all the complex life support and logistics they would need.

Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see permanent colonies in space, but I do wonder what things would have to be like down here to make it worthwhile for people to spend their lives Up There.

What should be done is a convention of scientists, engineers, political philosophers, psychologists and economists to look at the issue of space colonization holistically instead of just from the technologic standpoint. I think this could show us a clearer picture of the future of space colonization than any NASA press release.

On another note, I find my belief in God makes it easier to believe in the existence of extraterrestrial life. If there is no God but blind random chance, then Earth is probably the only inhabited planet in the entire galaxy, but if there is a God, then its fifty-fifty whether He parked an inhabited planet where we may be able to find it within our lifteimes (or that of our grandchildren). After all, the Bible never says that we are His only creation.

Over at Hot Air: Click your heels three times and say, there’s no place like HD209458b. There’s no place like HD209458b. There’s no place like HD209458b. Context here…….

I new my collection of Star Trek memorabilia would come in handy some day.

Way too frikin KEWL!

Science?

Everyone who’s not a brainwashed kool-aid drinker knows that the science is still out on this so-called “science.”

JaHerer22 on April 10, 2007 at 2:01 PM

Sorry… you’re right. There hasn’t been a UN panel of politicians to declare it as consensus yet — therefore, no science.

/barf

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/index.html
another cool site for space fans

I actually think life is going to turn out to be rather rare in the universe.
Bryan on April 10, 2007 at 3:04 PM

Life is apparently rare in our solar system and could be assumed to be rare in our galaxy; and further the universe.
But I think life, even intelligent life must exist somewhere else in the universe. I know theology does not have room for this thought but the shear number of opportunities makes it nearly statistacally impossible not to be the case. Cool post BTW.

HUGE ROBOTS DEATH MATCH ON MARS!!jummy on April 10, 2007 at 3:02 PM

Now that would make NASA some coin.

Next up Allah will reveal the latest developments at Darpa. When is Hotair getting “The Glove?”