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Is Iran blowing smoke about its “industrial level” nuke program?

posted at 7:32 pm on April 9, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Yeah, according to nuclear expert Jeffrey Lewis, writing at Danger Room. In a nutshell, it sounds like they’ve installed 3,000 centrifuges in their main industrial plant at Natanz and have begun injecting uranium gas into them, although (a) ABC News insists it’s more like 1,000, (b) it was Ali Larijani, Iran’s NSA, who spoke about specific numbers and capabilities, not Ahmadinejad, and (c) from what I understand after reading Lewis and others today, merely installing the machines and injecting the gas is no big trick. The trick is enriching it, which requires three things: centrifuges that are operating, operating in tandem, i.e. a “cascade,” and operating constantly. Larijani pointedly didn’t mention any of those three. According to Lewis, best estimates right now are that Iran was only able to buy 1,000-2,000 fully operational centrifuges on the black market, and even those appear to have been running only 20% of the time. If they’ve got 3,000 installed, it may be that a good chunk aren’t operational because they’re missing parts or because Iran hasn’t figured out how to keep them running smoothly and consistently enough to enrich uranium highly enough to build a weapon.

Lewis himself thinks this is a political stunt by Iranian hardliners, and various diplomats interviewed by WaPo and the Times agree. Not just a stunt for western consumption, either:

As for the A-Bomb and [Iran's] political people, they also have a motive to exaggerate Iran’s progress. Redefining Iran’s pilot efforts may help the hardliners accuse pragmatists of trading away “industrial scale” enrichment capabilities—capabilities Iran does not yet have.

If you believe the Times and its European sources, that trade may be closer than we think:

At Natanz, Iran is also setting up the large industrial plant, roughly half the size of the Pentagon, with the claimed 3,000 centrifuges as a first step toward an eventual total of 54,000. Nuclear experts said that, before today, Iran had apparently not injected uranium gas at the plant…

A senior European diplomat, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the issue’s sensitivity, said he doubted Iran had actually crossed that line, because serious discussions were underway between Tehran and European negotiators over potential ways to resolve Iran’s standoff with the United Nations Security Council.

“I would be surprised if they fed the centrifuges, because it would jeopardize the talks,” the diplomat said. “There are proposals out there which are quite serious.”

The upshot here is that they’re unlikely to have a bomb within a year, which is possible with 3,000 centrifuges if everything’s working as it should, but the in-the-know estimate isn’t much beyond that anyway — two to three years, which makes this a huge election issue. As far as I know, not a single Democrat has said they’re willing to accept an Iranian nuclear weapon as a price of peace (nor will they, given how, er, radioactive that would make them), but you may start hearing code creeping into their speeches on this subject, e.g., lots of references to detente with the Soviets despite their huge nuclear arsenals, etc. Sanctions won’t stop Iran for various reasons, one of which is that not everyone will enforce them; in fact, according to Iranian media, a general from the Revolutionary Guard who was banned by name from traveling under the latest Security Council resolution recently returned from a trip to Russia.

Which leaves the military option. Iran already has its army on high alert for a U.S. attack. A majority of Europeans apparently think that’d be a fine idea, just so long as they don’t have to contribute. But given whom Iran chose to retaliate against recently in their standoff with the U.S., and given whom other terrorist groups like AQ have focused their attentions on since 9/11, Europe’s along for this ride whether they want to be or not.

Update: Russia has confirmed that they violated the UN sanctions.


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Europe are like children, please US take away the bogey man while we live in are socialist paradise.

djohn669 on April 9, 2007 at 7:41 PM

I thought we read a few weeks back that Iran couldn’t keep them running because the slightest bit of grease or sweat made them blow apart? Wasn’t that on this very site last month?

anyways:
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP115106

Aghazadeh (Channel 2 on 4/13/2006): “In the early stages of our work we realized that our centrifuges had many malfunctions. We could not determine the reason, because there were no references or books we could consult to solve this. After considerable effort, we noticed that when our experts assembled the centrifuges, they did not wear cloth gloves. We realized that if you assemble the centrifuges with bare hands, a little bit of sweat from between the fingers may transfer to the rotor, and increase the mass. When the rotor spins, it becomes a problem, which completely unbalances the centrifuge, causing it to explode. When I say that it explodes, it doesn’t merely explode, but turns to powder.”

lorien1973 on April 9, 2007 at 7:42 PM

I’ve never seen that before, so far as I can remember.

Allahpundit on April 9, 2007 at 7:44 PM

I first heard their recent claims of capability might be exaggerated on Brit’s show tonight. It could just be that they want to appear to be further along in the process so the UN Security Council will get off their backs thinking it’s too late to stop them.

thedecider on April 9, 2007 at 7:49 PM

YES
I said this LAST TIME!

Defector01 on April 9, 2007 at 7:51 PM

He is a lying, pedophile worshiping, piece of crap. However, just to be sure, we should show them how to make glass out of all that sand!

NEMETI IN SYRACUSE on April 9, 2007 at 8:14 PM

I still say it’s because they are aligning the north poles of the magnets to Mecca.

- The Cat

MirCat on April 9, 2007 at 8:15 PM

Ian Malcolm from Jurassic Part explains the problem with Iran perfectly:

Ian Malcolm: I’ll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you’re using here: it didn’t require any discipline to attain it. You read what others had done and you took the next step. You didn’t earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don’t take any responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could and before you even knew what you had you patented it and packaged it and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now you’re selling it, you want to sell it.

lorien1973 on April 9, 2007 at 8:25 PM

“The trick is enriching it, which requires three things: [1]centrifuges that are operating, [2]operating in tandem, i.e. a “cascade,” and [3]operating constantly”

1) Making a centrifuge ‘operate’ only requires a motor to spin it. I doubt this would hold them back.
2) Putting them in cascade only requires a pipe connecting the effluent of one to the influent of another. I doubt this will stop them either.
3) That doesn’t sound right. If you only run it for a short time, then you should be left with slightly enriched uranium, which you can run through again at a later date to complete the enrichment, right?

Kevin M on April 9, 2007 at 8:26 PM

What benefit does Iran gain from lying? Support at home? Doubtful. It’s a theocracy. A dictatorship. They can simply eliminate any opposition if they really want the bomb.

What does it get them in the West except sanctions and a potential war? This announcement only increases the sense of urgency and increases the likelihood of being attacked. It’s like Hitler turning East before he was finished in the West, a strategic error. If anything, you’d want to keep your progress a secret so you can reduce the sense of urgency and increase the chances of success.

So why lie? A better deal? What deal? They want the bomb, not some bribe.

Maybe they are just braggarts? Maybe they want to be attacked because they already have a bomb(s) they purchased and are itching to use them? Maybe they think they have the conventional forces to win a war against the West and are trying to instigate an attack so they can counter-attack with some sort of legitimacy? I don’t know. Lying just doesn’t seem to make strategic sense unless you want a fight and you want it sooner rather than later.

TheBigOldDog on April 9, 2007 at 8:40 PM

Yuck. I’m a “European” and it’s disgusting that we don’t increase defense expenditure. As GWB said at a NATO conference it’s ridiculous that some of the wealthiest countries in the world are unwilling to pay for their own defense.

aengus on April 9, 2007 at 8:52 PM

This Iranian regeme has to go. Every freeking day the only thing they got going for them is how they can jerk off the whole MSM and the international community. They want to be in the nuclear club. F**k them. No more applictions being accepted. The only ting they got going is to contiue to say they are going to have it and contiue to drive the oil futures market highet yet. What a ‘JO” he is.

auspatriotman on April 9, 2007 at 9:54 PM

Where’s the IAEA on all this?

UN inspectors?

Anyone?

JetBoy on April 9, 2007 at 9:57 PM

But given whom Iran chose to retaliate against recently in their standoff with the U.S., and given whom other terrorist groups like AQ have focused their attentions on since 9/11, Europe’s along for this ride whether they want to be or not.

Nah. None of these “signs” of aggression have fazed Europe. Well, with a correction. It has helped Europe turn tail and retreat even before the real fight begins.

America alone, my friend. America. Alone…

CliffHanger on April 9, 2007 at 10:03 PM

Cripes.

If the MS-13 gangbanger down the street keeps threatening to kill me, my Jewish neighbor, both our entire families and burn down our houses:

Before we take steps to negate the threat, do we really have to be absolutely certain that he has the three thousand rounds for his AK and five gallons of gasoline that he claims; when we know that he 1000 rounds and two gallons of gas (and a Bic) that we KNOW for sure that he has???

Personally, I think Iran is even further ahead in their nuclear weapons project plans than they are indicating. And what they can’t build, they can buy.

LegendHasIt on April 9, 2007 at 10:09 PM

A majority of Europeans apparently think that’d be a fine idea, just so long as they don’t have to contribute.

That sounds about right. Whine, moan, complain, shout out, “Somebody has to do something!”

Then the US does something and they start complaining about how the US didn’t do it right…

taznar on April 9, 2007 at 10:27 PM

Kevin, I’m trying to remember how this all works. I saw the basics in Mechanics Illustrated or something a while back. My memory may be off…

When the centrifuge is running, it creates a density gradient through the centrifuge. When its been running to the point of reaching a steady state, the most enriched part is slowly siphoned off and used as starting material for the next centrifuge. If the centrifuge is turned off, the gradient is lost and you have to start over.

Once the second centrifuge has enough starting material (the slightly concentrated material from the first centrifuge), it can be fired up. The partially purified material from this stage is then fed to the third, and so on. Matrerial flows in one “end” and a slightly purer material flows out the other -its a continuous flow. It takes a veerry long time to get all 3000 up and running, and they have to all be running for a long time after that to make enough purified material for use in a bomb.

Now these are high tech centrifuges with very tight tolerances, otherwise you would need more than 3000. That also means quality is a real issue. Let’s say centrifuge 1287 fails. You can’t just save the output from centrifuge 1286 while its being repaired (I don’t rember exactly why that is). That means all the centrifuges ahead of that have to be stopped. I’m not sure, but I think you can keep centrifuges 1288 and up running, but they’re just marking time and wearing out waiting for more material. So you fix or replace centrifuge 1287, then start up #1 and work your way back up the line again. A lot of time is lost and the chance another centrifuge will fail has just increased.

Its like the trick where the person has 30 plates spinning at the same time, if one plate falls, the jig is up. Except its 3000 centrifuges.

taznar on April 9, 2007 at 10:46 PM

Wouldn’t it be something that this is all BS………

If he (Mymood Iminajihad) came out tomorrow and told the world that his farts smelled like roses, they would print it as fact! They would eat it up, and stand in line to make the confirmation.

No doubt they are trying to build nukes, but how productive can you be when you have to pray five times a day, attend local rallies and endless “Death to America” marches, all the while trying to sneak your family out of the country?

PinkyBigglesworth on April 9, 2007 at 11:42 PM

“If the centrifuge is turned off, the gradient is lost and you have to start over.”

I disagree with you for a couple of reasons. The first being that if a centrifuge broke down or stopped for some other reason, it’s very likely that valves would automatically shut, locking the gas in. So when the problem was resolved, all the centrifuges would need to do is come back up to the right temperature and speed for the valves to reopen, and the process would continue where it left off. The gradient is a result of the spinning centrifuge (centrifugal force), so bringing it back up to speed would recreate the same gradient rather quickly.

And second, because I see no reason to believe that Iran would have any trouble keeping 3,000 centrifuges running. They are a simple device, and Iran has excellent engineers, many trained at our finest engineering schools.

I agree that production would stop when centrifuge 1287 fails (although imo material transfer between all centrifuges would have to be put on hold until it was fixed if you wanted to run in steady-state; 1288 would immediately fall out of sync with no feedstock if it kept feeding 1289), but that’s true of any steady state chemical production. Iran has a proven ability to run steady-state plants, such as their oil refinery. It just doesn’t seem like much of a difficulty to overcome. Hope I’m wrong.

To be fair, I am assuming that centrifuging gaseous UF6 is similar in theory to typical liquid-liquid or liquid-solid centrifuging, since I have no experience in working with either uranium or gas centrifuges.

Kevin M on April 9, 2007 at 11:43 PM

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