Video: Yet another religious Apple-commercial parody
posted at 9:30 am on April 3, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Same idea as that “Christian vs. Christ-follower” series from December: buttoned-down dogma versus spiritual cool, this time with more vinegar directed at the PC/dork side. The ad comes from Living Spring Christian Fellowship in California, whose webpage introduces the spot this way:
I don’t know about you but religion kind of scares me. As a pastor, people assume that I am “religious”. However, religion carries all kinds of baggage with it. Religion flies planes into buildings. Religion creates institutions. Religion has caused a lot of problems in our world’s history.
They also believe the Bible isn’t so much infallible as “infallable”, so I wouldn’t take their aspersions on religion too much to heart.
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Dueling scriptures anyone?
Bradky on April 3, 2007 at 4:38 PM
That’s not my intent.
Esthier on April 3, 2007 at 4:39 PM
Sigh. You can not cherry pick scriptures out of the bible and twist them to meet your own understanding. You have to accept the ENTIRE bible as the word of God. Jesus himself said in John 14:6 I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me. You can’t go through Jesus if you have not heard of him or rejected him.
calirighty on April 3, 2007 at 4:41 PM
Esthier,
I think we’re all a little astonished. Forgive us. My point about progressive revelation comes from Hebrews 1:1-2
“1Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.”
and John 8:56
“Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”
PRCalDude on April 3, 2007 at 4:44 PM
I’m not cherry-picking. Do you have no interpretation for it?
And what about the seeking verse?
Are these meaningless?
Esthier on April 3, 2007 at 4:48 PM
Actually he did exactly that. There are hundreds of prophecies in the old testament concerning the coming of Christ especially in Isaiah. I think this means God felt it was important for us to know. You are trying to remove Christ from the equation. If Christ is not important for salvation then God sacrificed his son in vain. I don’t want to be the one on the day of judgement trying to reason with God why I didn’t think his son was important.
calirighty on April 3, 2007 at 4:49 PM
Scriptures are absolutely meaningless if you take them individually and try to put a meaning to them. They are like pieces of a puzzle. Each piece has its purpose yet you need ALL the pieces to see the picture. You are getting hung up on a few scriptures that do not mention Jesus and ignoring all the ones that do. After Christ was crucified, all of the references to the Lord in the new testament refer to Jesus.
calirighty on April 3, 2007 at 4:55 PM
Me either. I think this is why doctrine matters.
PRCalDude on April 3, 2007 at 4:57 PM
So when Paul says that all scripture is: ” God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness…”
He really only means “so long as you don’t take them individually”???
What about 3 scriptures, is that enough?
Proverbs 8:17
I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me.
Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
Acts 17:27
God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.
Why did God say through a prophet, through a king and through a discple that those who seek Him will find Him if the only way to find Him is to be lucky enough to meet a Christian?
Esthier on April 3, 2007 at 5:00 PM
Save that, please. That is NOT what I am saying.
I’m saying that since Jesus is not just a two-dimension person from the Bible, that it is possible for people to learn about Him without reading the Bible.
I’m saying that since I’m actually a person, you don’t have to read some book about me or meet one of my friends to know I exist.
You can just meet me on your own without being told beforehand who I am.
God is capable of speaking to people without us.
Esthier on April 3, 2007 at 5:02 PM
And I’m arguing that BEFORE Christ sacrificed Himself the scriptures STILL referenced Him. God isn’t stuck in our linear timeline.
Esthier on April 3, 2007 at 5:04 PM
Sure I can address your scripture. You quoted 1 John 4:7-8. My answer to that is start at the beginning of the chapter which says:
This passage specifically states that the Spirit of God is inside of us and that we accomplish that by acknowledging Jesus Christ as Lord and savior. Then comes the verse that you cherry picked.
calirighty on April 3, 2007 at 5:06 PM
That’s not what your argument was. Your argument was that we did not need to know about Christ crucified in order to become a Christian. Before Christ was crucified there were no Christians. You are trying to say that you can get by with what worked in the old testament and still have salvation and I am telling you that is false.
calirighty on April 3, 2007 at 5:11 PM
Um, the only thing I quote from 1 John was about those who know God knowing love, which I only quoted to help your case:
It was because of your comment here that I quote 1 John 4:7-8, becaused it seemed to me that that was the verse you were paraphrasing.
I wasn’t cherry picking any more than you were.
Esthier on April 3, 2007 at 5:12 PM
If God is the same, yesterday, today and forever, and if Christ claims that there is no way to the Father but through Him, then either God has changed, or this was always the case even if people did not realize it.
Esthier on April 3, 2007 at 5:16 PM
That’s what Paul said, and you’ve yet to explain to me why he would lie.
Esthier on April 3, 2007 at 5:17 PM
You misunderstood me. I was not quoting any particular scripture when I posted that. He stated that loving God and loving your neighbor were doctrines. I disagree and stated that they were commands. Christ said that the greatest commandment of all is: John 22:36-40
This is why I don’t like the term doctrine. Too many people confuse doctrine with direct instructions from God.
calirighty on April 3, 2007 at 5:25 PM
Fine, but the words you were using are actually used in the Bible, and that’s why I posted the scripture.
I’d even say that it’s more than a command. I’d say it’s a natural thing for a Christian to do the same as a fish breathing water.
Esthier on April 3, 2007 at 5:28 PM
Rather that it should be, since it is an outpouring of God’s nature. What I mean is that the closer we are to God, the more “loving” we will naturally be.
Esthier on April 3, 2007 at 5:29 PM
Of course. But as far as that scripture you are referring to in Romans 10, it is not referring to those who have not heard. it is referring to the Jews who HAD heard but chose not to except Christ. And as far as the Gentiles were concerned Paul was stating that the Gentiles would not hear unless they were told. They would not be told if people weren’t sent to tell them. People would not be sent to tell them unless there were believers to send. Finally there would be no people to send if people did not believe in the first place. I don’t know if this helps but it is the best I can do to explain it.
calirighty on April 3, 2007 at 5:36 PM
And by believing he was referring to Jesus Christ Lord and savior.
calirighty on April 3, 2007 at 5:38 PM
cali,
I think we’ve done the best we could.
PRCalDude on April 3, 2007 at 5:40 PM
The sentence “No one comes to the father except through me.” can be taken many ways. I prefer the sense implied by Ephesians 1:1-23 which says that our salvation is not a matter of what we do, but depends solely on the grace of our Lord. What we know matters only to the extent that it is a gift from God for us to pass on.
pedestrian on April 3, 2007 at 5:42 PM
It says “to all the earth” not just to the Jews.
I’m actually a Christian, someone who has accepted Christ, His crucifixion and the whole of the Bible. And you’re giving up on me.
What if I were not a Christian, especially since you believe that only those who hear the word can become Christians?
I’m not insulting either of you and am not asking anything difficult. I’m asking how you reconcile scripture with what you believe. If you can’t answer me, how do you answer someone who needs to know?
Esthier on April 3, 2007 at 5:50 PM
I agree. We don’t control our salvation; we don’t even deserve it.
Esthier on April 3, 2007 at 5:53 PM
Esthier, we’re dueling with Nerf bats here. We disagree on less than you might think.
My point is not that one must read the Bible to be a Christian. My point is that one is in real peril when one refuses to diligently seek truth from scriptures (earnestly contend) in the name of inclusiveness.
It is one thing to be denied access to the scriptures and still hold fast, but it is an entirely different matter to reject them in favor of larger congregations. That is the way of Laodicea.
spmat on April 3, 2007 at 6:15 PM
You and I are talking about different things. If you read that passage you see that it is in quotes. If you do a bible search and look for that quote you will find that it is in Psalm 19:1-6:
“Their” is referring to the sky and the heavens. No speech or language means that regardless of what language you speak you can see the sky and heavens and understand that God made them. It is in no way stating that everyone in the world has heard of Jesus. It is also not stating that just believing that God made the heavens and the sky is sufficient for salvation. That’s why you have to read the beginning of Romans 10. It is referring to Jews who HAD heard the word but refused to believe. It is not referring to people who had never heard of Jesus.
calirighty on April 3, 2007 at 6:21 PM
As far as salvation is concerned we absolutely control it. We hear the word and make a decision for or against Christ. God does not force us either way. If you choose Christ then you have chosen salvation. If that is not control then i don’t know what is.
calirighty on April 3, 2007 at 6:25 PM
I agree
calirighty on April 3, 2007 at 6:26 PM
You don’t go through Jesus. You go by Jesus. I.e. He carries you.
There is but one salvation. That is by the blood of Jesus Christ, shed 2000 years ago. It is by that same blood, as it will be the same resurrection, that Job will be redeemed.
spmat on April 3, 2007 at 6:33 PM
Ephesians 1:4 says “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.”
How can we be in control when we were chosen before our own creation?
pedestrian on April 3, 2007 at 6:52 PM
NIV says “through” the original Greek says “through” so i’ll stick with “through”
calirighty on April 3, 2007 at 7:24 PM
God chose ALL of us to be holy and blameless in his sight. That is why He created us. However, because of free will, man fell into sin. Jesus said if we are to follow him we must take up our cross and deny ourselves. If there were no choice but just predestination then there would be need for that. We wouldn’t need to repent. We wouldn’t need to be baptized for the forgiveness of sins. And we wouldn’t need to worship Jesus on Sundays because after all we were chosen before the creation of the world.
calirighty on April 3, 2007 at 7:33 PM
The original Greek is “dia” which means this:
spmat on April 3, 2007 at 7:57 PM
Bleh, hoarked the blockquote.
spmat on April 3, 2007 at 7:58 PM
If it was up to our choices, in that we sufficiently repented, we preserved the cleaning of our baptism, or that our Sunday worship was in any way adequate, we would be toast. Our only hope is in God’s grace that he chose to give us. Our repentence, baptism, and worship are consequences of our being saved, not the cause.
pedestrian on April 3, 2007 at 8:07 PM
Since I was first off the line this morning, allow me to say this as a close of sorts….and forgive me if I am repeating something already said above.
THEY ARE CALLED THE TEN “COMMANDMENTS”, NOT THE TEN “SUGGESTIONS”.
And no easy-listening version of His word will change what was WRITTEN IN STONE.
seejanemom on April 3, 2007 at 8:59 PM
Maddox needs to make a post on what non-evangelicals can do that evangelicals can’t.
James on April 3, 2007 at 9:18 PM
Lively thread. The religious ones always are. There was one remark, though, that I just couldn’t permit to go unchallenged, viz.
As the black knight in Monty Python’s Holy Grail would say:
“You shall not pass!”
Hmmmm, let’s see.
There’s dark matter (astronomy).
There’s dark energy (astronomy, again).
Oh yeah, then there’s that whole “string theory” thing
(sub-atomic particle physics).
Those are just the first three that came to mind.
There are many other examples.
There are MANY branches of science that teeter on the brink of religion, philosophy, meta-physics. Unless, of course, you’d rather not refer to those disciplines as “science.”
The fact is, many physicists believe in things that they can not see, and, in some instances, things that they can not even begin to verify with a control experiment. At times, I think that they have more “faith” than EITHER “religious” or “authentic.”
Just sayin’.
CyberCipher on April 4, 2007 at 9:46 AM
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