Multiple Democrats say McCain almost left GOP in 2001

posted at 10:36 pm on March 28, 2007 by Allahpundit

Captain Ed got to it first. Some of it’s old news, but the parts that are old are so old that it’s like discovering them for the first time. And the parts that aren’t? Devastating.

Ed says if it’s true, he’s finished. I agree.

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) was close to leaving the Republican Party in 2001, weeks before then-Sen. Jim Jeffords (Vt.) famously announced his decision to become an Independent, according to former Democratic lawmakers who say they were involved in the discussions…

Democrats had contacted Jeffords and then-Sen. Lincoln Chafee (R-R.I.) in the early months of 2001 about switching parties, but in McCain’s case, they said, it was McCain’s top strategist who came to them

Daschle said that throughout April and May of 2001, he and McCain “had meetings and conversations on the floor and in his office, I think in mine as well, about how we would do it, what the conditions would be. We talked about committees and his seniority … [A lot of issues] were on the table.”

Absolutely not so, according to McCain. In a statement released by his campaign, McCain said, “As I said in 2001, I never considered leaving the Republican Party, period.”

Some of the meetings Daschle referred to are detailed in the former senator’s 2003 book

“John [Edwards] at that time was working with McCain on a couple things and there was a sense that because of his relationship that he might be a good person to talk to him,” Daschle said. “He was clearly one of those that we thought could be helpful.”

A source close to Edwards said Daschle’s comments are accurate.

Daschle says McCain was never thinking of becoming a Democrat, only an independent, but that’s a cold comfort. John Weaver, the McCain strategist who allegedly approached the Dems about switching, evidently admitted this week that St. John did speak to some Democratic senators about it — but only very briefly, in a single meeting which he left shortly after it began. Daschle says that’s nonsense.

Honestly, the blockquote doesn’t do it justice as I had to omit further corroborating quotes by another Democrat, former Rep. Tom Downey. You’ll simply have to read the whole thing. It boils down to whether you take a bunch of Democrats’ words over McCain’s: they have an interest in knocking him out of the race, but do they have an interest in knocking him out now? The longer he’s in, the more damage his oppo researchers can do to Giuliani and Romney. And the quicker he’s out, the more easily his fundraisers can transition to another candidate. If they’re making this all up, it would have made more sense to drop it six months from now.

Which makes me think they’re not making it up.

Rudy’s and Romney’s people are surely working the phones as we speak. If there’s anyone else on the Democratic side who can corroborate this — and there must be if it’s true — they’ll find him. And if they can get him to talk, which is a big if given what I’ve just said about the timetable, I think J-Mac’s done.


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McCain’s campagne was over in 2000.

- The Cat

MirCat on March 28, 2007 at 10:40 PM

3rdpartymania.

Say hello to President Hillary Clinton.

spmat on March 28, 2007 at 10:44 PM

McCain was done as soon as he signed onto McCain-Feingold.

djohn669 on March 28, 2007 at 10:45 PM

So his RINO certification is now complete. St. John is now Benedict Arnold. With waffling like this, he would make a great Democrat.

thedecider on March 28, 2007 at 10:45 PM

Somebody tell McCain that it still isn’t too late.

rplat on March 28, 2007 at 10:45 PM

spmat….stop cussin

spazzmomma on March 28, 2007 at 10:45 PM

He’s a RINO anyway…Why does this matter?
Ok, ok….Yes we need real conservatives in there….term limits anyone?
Is that a state issue or a fed issue?
If it is a state issue, lets rally, if it is a fed issue, lets rally hard!

lsutiger on March 28, 2007 at 10:46 PM

Then again this is democrats we are talking about. McCain may have been asked at this meeting to change parties. Or his CM might have wanted to see what the democrats would offer.

but we are down to a hypothetical here. McCain never did switch. And its not beyond the ability of the dems to stir things up more to hurt the GOP than to “Correct the record”

The inevitibility of Hillary is worring them.

William Amos on March 28, 2007 at 10:48 PM

spazzmomma on March 28, 2007 at 10:45 PM

I don’t trust McCain farther than I can chuck him. And how I want to chuck him. I believe he’s the kind of man that would run 3rd party just to spite the Republican party and curry just a little more favor with the Washington elite.

spmat on March 28, 2007 at 10:53 PM

Why are the Dems kneecapping McCain? He ought to be the candidate they’d prefer to run against.

smellthecoffee on March 28, 2007 at 10:53 PM

I’ve said it before, and I will say it again, Sen. McCain, thank you for your service to this country.

In you heart’s heart, I know you tried your best to do what was right.

Yet you fatal flaw was that you always compromised with the Democrats, and never insisted they compromise with you.

You were too eager to “get along” instead of doing what was right, or what the conservative base was screaming for.

Time for the sidelines, kind sir. Your days in the sun are numbered. You don’t have to crawl into bed with Ted Kennedy anymore, being the catcher and not the pitcher.

I suggest leaving on a high point.

The only way you can save your image is to spend your last days in Congress in a pair of jeans, gloves, and a dirty shirt, building a fence on the Southern Border of the State of Arizona.

Then, then, you can ride off into the sunset………..

PinkyBigglesworth on March 28, 2007 at 10:55 PM

Oh, holy crap … one of the comments just brought to mind a strange scenario.

Could you imagine an independent Thompson/Lieberman ticket? Aligned directly with neither party but forming a coalition of center-right and center-left among legislators that would pledge a gentleman’s agreement to support them? A Common Sense Coalition whose primary plank would be the war on terror? The people in many parts of the country are fed up enough with both the Republican and Democrat establishment that they might just go for it. The base of both parties would hate it, but the center would love it and the Independents would see it as a way to “stick it” to the main parties.

Oh my goodness, in that case Thompson wouldn’t need to announce as a Republican and spend on the primary circuit. He could really be what Ross Perot could never have been. A presidential ticket with real bi-partisan congressional support.

crosspatch on March 28, 2007 at 11:05 PM

Assuming he was considering a jump, which seems strong at this point there are two things I want to know.

What made him consider it?

And

Why didn’t he?

Keljeck on March 28, 2007 at 11:08 PM

nice comment Pinky. John was done many years ago. A great soldier in his time. Always a mediocre politician. Occasionally a fine statesman. Sadly, to be a great statesman one must not earn the ‘occasionally’ in their description.

Griz on March 28, 2007 at 11:09 PM

Wait. McCain is a republican? When did this happen?

lorien1973 on March 28, 2007 at 11:14 PM

Wait. McCain is a republican? When did this happen?

lorien1973 on March 28, 2007 at 11:14 PM

Hewitt: Sen. McCain is a great American, he’s been a lousy senator and a terrible Republican. That’s the brand.

McCain has always loved the Maverick handle. Cultivated it actually.

I’ve always known he never really fully grasped the word.

1. An unbranded range animal, especially a calf that has become separated from its mother, traditionally considered the property of the first person who brands it.

Say, isn’t Edwards reputed to be something of a… well something of a dandy? HA! HA!

Stephen M on March 28, 2007 at 11:14 PM

McCain is toast. Nobody like him except the New York Times, The Washington Post, the LA Times and CNN. That should tell you all you need to know.

crosspatch on March 28, 2007 at 11:18 PM

The campaigns keep starting so much earlier and getting dumb so much quicker… Is there going to be anybody left to run next year? I think the last one to drop out will end up winning, and we’ll know at least six months in advance.

Jim Treacher on March 28, 2007 at 11:20 PM

Daschle said. “He was clearly one of those that we thought could be helpful.”

They’re called useful idiots.

thedecider on March 28, 2007 at 11:20 PM

If I recall correctly, DU was liking McPain as little as a year ago.

Connie on March 28, 2007 at 11:25 PM

Yikes.

If true, then yeah – McCain is toast.

Slublog on March 28, 2007 at 11:30 PM

McCain/Feingold disqualifies him from my vote.

JayHaw Phrenzie on March 28, 2007 at 11:40 PM

McCain/Feingold/Kennedy… yeah, toast. Unelectable.
Time to go back to Arizona and cuddle with Reid.

Kini on March 28, 2007 at 11:45 PM

McCain always knew he couldn’t get the Rep nod and always planned on Perot-ing the party. Sorry John, but that is the way I see it. Thanks you for wearing the uniform honorably, no thanks to Hail to the Chief.

Now if only Gore would do the same to the Dems.

Limerick on March 28, 2007 at 11:47 PM

What did McCain ally Fred Thompson know about this and when did he know it?

Perchant on March 29, 2007 at 12:02 AM

What did McCain ally Fred Thompson know about this and when did he know it?

Perchant on March 29, 2007 at 12:02 AM

Don’t make Fred use his folksy wisdom on you.

Slublog on March 29, 2007 at 12:03 AM

I’ve said it before, and I will say it again, Sen. McCain, thank you for your service to this country.

In you heart’s heart, I know you tried your best to do what was right.
PinkyBigglesworth on March 28, 2007 at 10:55 PM

I agree, now, what have you done lately John?

I feel that Senator McCain is a paleo Democrat that came home from the war and didn’t like the liberal party minus FDR.

Any transgender Democrat running for office behind a Republican mask needs to be exposed.
We have standards you know, you do know we have standards, don’t you?

I think Rudy is a great leader (much greater than Hilbill) but is actually a rare admirable displaced Democrat.
Imagine if people like John McCain and Rudy Giuliani were what formed the centrist interests of what should be the Democratic party.
Imagine Centrist Republicans in such a world.

Speakup on March 29, 2007 at 12:17 AM

Could you imagine an independent Thompson/Lieberman ticket? Aligned directly with neither party but forming a coalition of center-right and center-left among legislators that would pledge a gentleman’s agreement to support them? A Common Sense Coalition whose primary plank would be the war on terror?

Sorry, but that sounds like kind of a stupid idea to me. Why would Thompson even need to run as an independent in the first place? And why spoil the ticket by adding Lieberman to it? Thompson already has a tremendous following because people like where he stands on a variety of issues, not just where he stands with the war on terror issue.

A Common Sense Coalition? What you propose is the opposite of common sense.

Watcher on March 29, 2007 at 12:30 AM

McCain and Bush settled their differences before the president’s reelection campaign in 2004, when McCain strongly backed his former nemesis after reportedly rejecting an offer from Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) to become his vice presidential nominee. Last year, McCain aggressively stumped for dozens of GOP candidates.

Only thing that matters, and that Daschle lost (something I told my European friends ahead of the actual day)!!!

Mr. McCain was “done” before this, whatever it is and whoever is propagating it. I understood his frustration in 2000 and thereafter but I also don’t believe all which Mr. Daschle et co. say/write; and Mr. Reaper et co…

Does. Not. Matter. It’s too late. He’ll once again do the gracious thing for his party and for his country and bow out. Maybe he and Fred! will work out a deal, before Fred! announces, for an important post, say DoD.

I know, some of you will say “he’s not stable/predictable enough for that”. I kind of like that. He’s a hero, a great American, loves the Soldiers, knows the good/bad about the WoT, and I’m sick of too much predictability for the MSM and the enemies, and all in general, when it comes to war matters.

Entelechy on March 29, 2007 at 1:19 AM

1. An unbranded range animal, especially a calf that has become separated from its mother, traditionally considered the property of the first person who brands it.

Stephen M on March 28, 2007 at 11:14 PM

Priceless!

Connie on March 29, 2007 at 1:22 AM

Wait. McCain is a republican? When did this happen?

lorien1973 on March 28, 2007 at 11:14 PM

You beat me to it lorien1973.

I believe he’s the kind of man that would run 3rd party just to spite the Republican party and curry just a little more favor with the Washington elite.

spmat on March 28, 2007 at 10:53 PM

Didn’t he try this before?

McCain lost it with me (not that I cared for his politics at this point anyway) when he instigated the gang of 14.

He is foolish to think the base will support him since he has been thumbing his nose at the base for many years now.

Does not surprise me a bit.

Go run on the Maverick party ticket RINO!

91Veteran on March 29, 2007 at 1:24 AM

I think Rudy is a great leader (much greater than Hilbill) but is actually a rare admirable displaced Democrat.

Speakup on March 29, 2007 at 12:17 AM

Well he did switch parties, after all.

Connie on March 29, 2007 at 1:24 AM

Hey, Watcher

Yeah, it was something that just bubbled up, take it as brainstorming. I was thinking about what the Democrats were going to attempt to offer as another Ross Perot. Then I thought about who could be considered a serious candidate who wasn’t already in the race and Fred was the one popping immediately to mind.

Then I thought about how could a Republican get the support of a Democratic congress. Particularly if he were running as an independent against his own party’s candidate and then I figured if he grabbed Lieberman, he could get the blue dogs. Those Dems could go along with him because he wouldn’t be the “official” Republican candidate, had a Democratic ticket partner, and seems reasonable. Republicans could support him if he got elected because A) he is Fred and B) he isn’t Hillary. The independents would vote for him because it is sort of a maverick ticket. Not backed by either party’s central committee.

Winning your own base doesn’t win you general elections. The candidate that takes the independents and crossovers from the other party wins elections. A Republican candidate can take 100% of the Republican vote and lose by a landslide if no Democrats or Independents vote for you. I suspect such a ticket might get a third of the Republicans, two thirds of the independents, and a third of the Democrats. That should be enough to win the election.

crosspatch on March 29, 2007 at 1:40 AM

Given the choice of Rudy as a Republican and Fred as an Independent, I might think that Fred would still pull in a lot of Republican votes.

Look at another scenario … Fred gets in late and doesn’t have enough momentum to get the party nomination and runs as an independent grabbing Lieberman as a running mate. That might work too.

Not saying that is what I would like to see happen, I just think the majority of the people in this country are pretty fed up with both parties. Another way to put that is that an increasing number of people feel that neither party really represents their views. And none of the candidates do either.

The best case scenario for me would be a Rudy/Fred ticket.

crosspatch on March 29, 2007 at 1:48 AM

I’m having a sick feeling that McCain’s considering running as an independent. If he does, he’ll hand the White House to the Dems with a big bow on top.

aero on March 29, 2007 at 1:51 AM

Who cares, McCain sucks.

I have refused to shake his hand when I see him out amongst the “common man” here in Phoenix.

Tim Burton on March 29, 2007 at 2:07 AM

My my..what will we ever do with all these politicians calling themselves something they aren’t…oh noo..we will have to think for ourselves now since the labels don’t mean much. Glad hot air and the like have a good start in that realm..minus a few of course hehe!

Highrise on March 29, 2007 at 2:22 AM

Who cares, McCain sucks.

I have refused to shake his hand when I see him out amongst the “common man” here in Phoenix.

Tim Burton on March 29, 2007 at 2:07 AM

How is the “Fence” comming along?

PinkyBigglesworth on March 29, 2007 at 2:38 AM

“It boils down to whether you take a bunch of Democrats’ words over McCain’s: they have an interest in knocking him out of the race,….”

I consider the source: DEMOCRATS. I find it difficult to accept anythng that Democrats claim as truthful. In so any areas they are such outright liars, that why would I even consider that they are telling the truth here?

I do not like McCain. He wasn’t my choice in 2000 and he isn’t my choice now. I oppose him on most issues. But, the important thing is, as we all know, you can always tell when Democrats are lying because their lips are moving. I am not convinced that they are telling the truth here.

Here’s why: McCain has been considered a viable challenger to Hillary; should he gain the nomination running against Hillary, he could easily beat here. Especially when 50% of American state that they wouldn’t vote for under any circumstances.

So. The Democrats have a powerful motive to undermine McCain and prevent him from getting the nomination. They have the method — a whisper campaign fed by a book by Daschle, with whispers from maybe another Democrat or too, fed into one or more Republican/conservative leaning blogs. And they have the opportunity to plant doubt, now, at the beginning the season, where a tiny doubt has time to grow into a campaign killer. This is an opportunity to spread FEAR, UNCERTAINTY, and DOUBT among Republicans, in other words.

Motive, method, and opportunity are all that is necessary to send a person to death row for capital murder.

Sorry, unless coorobated by McCain himself, or via a hidden camera, or any other source OTHER than a Democrat, I remain unconvinced that this is true.

Remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. As some of you have noted, I have no doubt that Rudy and Mitt will be working overtime to provide that extraordinary proof.

I do agree with most of you, IF THIS IS TRUE, then McCain is finished as a Republican.

georgej on March 29, 2007 at 3:05 AM

Specifics! I need more detail – like WHEN did this happen? What months?

If it was before 9/11 then it shows he has been a RINO for a long long time. Not good.

If it was after 9/11 then it shows points of view that have been hidden for political purposes. Specifically, as strange as it sounds, opposition to the Afghanistan Invasion.

Did he just hate all the pork, or did he hate the hawks? Every time he opens his mouth to sigh a comment, I realize he doesn’t believe a word he say about the War On Terror.

Going along to get along is not a crime these days. But as far as I am concerned, opposition to Afghanistan in 2001 is.

Agrippa2k on March 29, 2007 at 6:43 AM

Slow down, everyone. The source of this is a Democrat; and there is a Clinton political hit team out there actively working for Hillary. John McCain never did switch, nor did it ever make sense that he would. McCain has too many positions that are conservative. He is pro-life. He is a fiscal conservative. He is pro-military. His suuport of the Iraq War has been unwavering to the present day. He votes for conservative juducial nominees. He is not a RINO like Lincoln Chafee or Chuckie Hagel.

You may prefer a different candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, but at the very least, let’s hold our fire on one of our own. Right now, John McCain is one of the strongest voices in defense of our military and the Iraq War; and that, I submit to you, accounts for the story.

Phil Byler on March 29, 2007 at 7:14 AM

I like McCain on defense and fiscal policy, and his party allegiance doesn’t matter to me one iota. I don’t intend to vote for him, though.

I am to the point I just want to ban the primaries, have an open election with the two top vote-getters (any party) running off against each other. We’ll get more centrists in the running in both parties, and avoid the good vs evil battles every four years. It would also help spoil the “king-making” power of our wonderful Republican PArty.

RW Wacko on March 29, 2007 at 8:17 AM

Actually, I don’t doubt it. The GOP p’ed me off during the ’90s too…I mean, c’mon…Bob Dole? Clinton messed up left and right (mostly left), and the Republicans suffered after Lee Atwater died.

What made me maddest was the way Dubya was put out, almost 2 years before the 2000 election, as the only GOP candidate. And when McCain won the early primary, the Republicans pushed him aside…to make room for Bush. They weren’t offering a choice no matter what. Look what the GOP did to those like J.C. Watts and others? Used. Jeffords split for the same reason.

If Fred Thompson (my man for months now) decides to run, and secures the nomination (fingers crossed) the GOP can redeem itself. And put the Haley Barber years far behind it, ’cause we’re still feeling the sting.

JetBoy on March 29, 2007 at 9:08 AM

I like McCain on defense and fiscal policy, and his party allegiance doesn’t matter to me one iota. I don’t intend to vote for him, though.

Yup. I’ve been trying to figure out what exactly it is about John McCain that bugs the heck out of me. For me, it’s that he seems sanctimonious.

McCain has said Congress is corrupted by money (without offering specifics); he’s made himself the savior of Senate collegiality with the Gang of 14; he’s self-righteously criticized the religious right (even if he now embraces Falwell); and has tried to justify his own pork with semantic games while being critical of others.

And when people like Mitch McConnell offer substantive criticism of St. John, he can’t handle it. He gets what the media describes as prickly, which I guess is a nice way of saying he’s shocked, shocked that anyone would dare question his genius.

This is a man who eagerly embraces his press image – he loves being called a “Maverick™” and named his own bus the “Straight Talk Express,” which I suppose is his way of saying everyone but him lies.

I’ve had enough of Senator John McCain. Judging by the comments in this and other threads, so have a lot of other conservatives.

Slublog on March 29, 2007 at 9:20 AM

Well, if McCain does jump out because of this, the fun part will be what he does next. If he stays true to form, he’ll throw support to one of the democrats, and start blazing away at the Republican candidates. As many have said, he loves his maverick title, and from the nasty things he’s had to say to his own base (folks from the religious right and anyone in favor of enforcing the borders) he loves giving the average GOP voter the finger whenever he can. Once he’s out, he can stop pretending to like us and go back to being a self serving d*ck. His support of the military is not enough to make up for the rest of his policy positions.

austinnelly on March 29, 2007 at 9:38 AM

You meant he hasn’t left? I thought he left us years ago.

right2bright on March 29, 2007 at 10:04 AM

We would be better off if he had left..he’s a RINO and a traitor.

davy on March 29, 2007 at 10:46 AM

The Gang of 14 did it for me too. Where’s all McCain’s buddies now that the tables are turned? Where’s the Gang of 14 now that the Dems have the power? McCain, Graham, and the like got used like a two dollar hooker on Spring Break on half price night.

Matticus Finch on March 29, 2007 at 11:24 AM

It boils down to whether you take a bunch of Democrats’ words over McCain’s: they have an interest in knocking him out of the race,

Well, THANK YOU ALLAH for pointing out this very important fact.

Good grief you guys.

McCain may have believed and fought for things that made you angry, but he has never lied. He says he never considered it and until someone other than a freakin Democrat who knows he can beat Hillary, proves to me otherwise, I will believe McCain.

Sometimes I think you guys don’t even CARE that we could have a Pres. Hillary. It’s more important to bash McCain, isn’t it?

I’m sick of it.

Rightwingsparkle on March 29, 2007 at 11:52 AM

Sometimes I think you guys don’t even CARE that we could have a Pres. Hillary. It’s more important to bash McCain, isn’t it?

I’m sick of it.

No, it’s important to have a nominee that the base doesn’t hate with a passion.

Slublog on March 29, 2007 at 11:55 AM

Your McCain support is starting to border on the irrational, Sparkle. The guy almost left the party and you want him to be the nominee? You’re kidding yourself.

Allahpundit on March 29, 2007 at 11:56 AM

I think it is many people’s disdain for McCain that is irrational.

[Senator John] McCain [R-AZ] gets the following ratings from conservative groups in their most recent rating periods: National Right to Life Committee: 82%; National Taxpayers Union: 78%; Americans for Tax Reform: 90%; John Birch Society: 90%; Republican Liberty Caucus: 82%; American Conservative Union: 80%. . .

McCain is CLEARLY a conservative. Clearly a leader. Clearly a war hero. I haven’t heard one thing to convince me otherwise other than you guys ranting about McCain/Feingold. Which you have a point, but not to the point where you hate the guy so much we won’t win.

I am not so devoted to McCain that I can’t be convinced othewise. But so far you guys haven’t done it. And who could beat Hillary? Rudy? Maybe, be he is about as conservative as Bill Clinton. No Thanks.

source: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:wulACFH8c6QJ:www.conservative.org/documents/acuinaction/060630.doc+McCain+82%25+Acu&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Rightwingsparkle on March 29, 2007 at 12:11 PM

What about Fred Thompson, RWS? He’s conservative, and could beat Hillary.

Slublog on March 29, 2007 at 12:15 PM

The bottom line is this. If I am right and McCain gets the nomination then you guys will have to bite the bullet and vote for him.

If you guys are right and Rudy gets the nomination then I will have to bite the bullet and vote for him.

But don’t think for one minute that it won’t make me just as sick to pull the lever for Rudy as it will be for you to pull the lever for McCain, because it will.

Until the time comes for the nomination though, I would appreciate a little “fair and balanced” look at both nominees. Is that too much to ask?

Rightwingsparkle on March 29, 2007 at 12:15 PM

What about Fred Thompson, RWS? He’s conservative, and could beat Hillary.

He might be able to. I don’t know alot about him, but he does have star power.

One problem though, he’s not running.

Rightwingsparkle on March 29, 2007 at 12:16 PM

One problem though, he’s not running.

Sure he is. He just hasn’t officially announced yet. He’s a showman who knows the value of anticipation, I think.

He’ll jump in when the time is right.

Slublog on March 29, 2007 at 12:19 PM

- Gang of 14, which kneecapped Bush on judges as well as his Republican senate colleagues.

- Opposed Bush’s tax cuts (“The rich don’t need tax cuts” he stated).

- McVain/Feingold, which put a big dent in the 1st Amendment

- The sanctimonious pose of his bill limiting terrorist interrogations

- His complete sellout on the border to Ted Kennedy and his general pro-amnesty/open borders stance

- His critique of religions conservatives as “agents of intolerance”

- Was nowhere to be found during the 2000 election controversy when military absentee ballots were being denied by the Goracle’s team

- Voted against permanent repeal of the estate tax

- and obviously loves the adulation of the MSM

These are just the stuff off the top of my head.

Thus, would it really surprise anyone if this story turned out to be true?

Good riddance, Johnny McVain.

thirteen28 on March 29, 2007 at 12:28 PM

“religious” conservatives … damn (non-existent) edit funciton …

thirteen28 on March 29, 2007 at 12:29 PM

Gang of 14, which kneecapped Bush on judges as well as his Republican senate colleagues.

Yeah, that only got us Alito and Roberts, the most important conservative event in our lifetime.

- Opposed Bush’s tax cuts (”The rich don’t need tax cuts” he stated).

But he changed his tune on that. You knew that right? And he voted for it.

- McVain/Feingold, which put a big dent in the 1st Amendment

I agree. But Rudy said he would have voted for it and was a big supporter. Do you hate him for that as well?

- The sanctimonious pose of his bill limiting terrorist interrogations

Yeah. I give a guy who suffered for five years BEING TORTURED for our country a bit of break ON THAT ONE.

- His complete sellout on the border to Ted Kennedy and his general pro-amnesty/open borders stance

I happen to agree with McCain and Bush on this, although I understand why others do not.

- His critique of religions conservatives as “agents of intolerance”

He changed his tune on that too. But he was right. Some ARE agents of intolerance. Most are not.

- Was nowhere to be found during the 2000 election controversy when military absentee ballots were being denied by the Goracle’s team

I don’t know anything about that.

- Voted against permanent repeal of the estate tax

That either.

- and obviously loves the adulation of the MSM

Yeah, it’s obvious Rudy hates it…*snort*

Rightwingsparkle on March 29, 2007 at 12:51 PM

Yeah, that only got us Alito and Roberts, the most important conservative event in our lifetime.

We could have gotten those two anyway. And before we got Alito, we almost ended up with Harriet Miers as a direct result of Bush having to nominate from a position of weakness, thanks precisely to the Gang of 14.

But he changed his tune on that. You knew that right? And he voted for it.

So he was a Kerry-like against it before he was for it. Yeah, that inspires confidence.

I agree. But Rudy said he would have voted for it and was a big supporter. Do you hate him for that as well?

This argument is about McVain’s position, not Rudy’s. For the record though, I’m not a Rudy supporter either.

Yeah. I give a guy who suffered for five years BEING TORTURED for our country a bit of break ON THAT ONE.

His service to his country is to be commended, and his suffering while in the Hanoi Hilton is not to be taken lightly. But that doesn’t change the fact that he played the Absolute Moral Authority Card (TM) in direct contradiction to the security interests of this country. His previous suffering at the hands of the North Vietnamese does not give him carte blanche to do such a thing.

I happen to agree with McCain and Bush on this, although I understand why others do not.

You are a decided minority in the conservative movement on that one. And like the previous item, this represents yet another position that McVain has taken that is a direct contradiction to the security interests of this country.

He changed his tune on that too. But he was right. Some ARE agents of intolerance. Most are not.

Yeah, now that he needs religious conservatives to help him get the nomination, he suddenly butters up to them. Another Kerry-esque example of “he was against them before he was for them”, and one that smacks of naked political opportunism.

I don’t know anything about that.

Of course, he was dead silent on the issue because he was still seething at Bush for beating him in the primary.

That either.

You can look it up. Actually, that represents yet another Kerry-esque moment, as he was for the permanent repeal of the estate tax before he was against it.

Yeah, it’s obvious Rudy hates it…*snort*

Snort about Rudy if you must, no skin off my back. I’m not thrilled with him either, and in fact (as you have alluded to) a number of his positions are similar to McVain’s.

thirteen28 on March 29, 2007 at 1:06 PM

This is a welcome development.

PRCalDude on March 29, 2007 at 1:14 PM

Well, the problem thirteen28 is that, like or not, the frontrunners we have are the frontrunners we have. And my main concern is that so many seem to put McCain bashing before the real goal of beating Hillary.(and she will get the nomination folks. That is and always has been a given)

I hope I am wrong. I hope you can all say to me “ha ha told ya so” and Hillary doesn’t get the nomination. But I’d bet all the tea in China on her right now.

Which brings us to the general election. Rudy might beat Hillary, but I cannot see him getting through the primaries. I just can’t. I might be wrong on that. I just don’t see real conservatives voting for what is basically a socially liberal Democrat.

McCain can beat Hillary and will, if he gets the nomination. And I think he will.

All I can say is that you all underestimate McCain.

Rightwingsparkle on March 29, 2007 at 1:48 PM

All I can say is that you all underestimate McCain.

No, I think the problem is we know him all too well.

Slublog on March 29, 2007 at 1:51 PM

I think that it is very mistaken to hold against John McCain for the “Gang of 14″ compromise. He worked for that compromise in order to make sure that most conservative nominees to the U.S. Supreme Court and the U.S. Courts of Appeals would be confirmed, while not undercutting the filibuster right, having in mind that someday the Democrats might be in the Senate majority. We do not know that the “constitutional option” would have worked, and you cannot blithely assume it would have, not with real RINOS in the Senate like Lincoln Chafee who voted with the Democrats in the actual voting on John Roberts and Sam Alito. So now, how does that compromise look? Not bad: John Roberts and Sam Alito are on the U.S. Supreme Court and a number of conservatives were confirmed for the U.S. Courts of Appeals; and the filibuster power is untrammeled at a time when it may be needed to put a stop to a Democrat controlled Senate. Also, John McCain took the pledge at a Federalist Society dinner earlier this year that he would nominate conservatives like John Roberts and Sam Alito.

I also think that it is very mistaken to be skeptical about John McCain’s efforts to patch things up with religious conservatives. There was a spat back in 2000, but John McCain’s books on courage and character reflect a man who should have support from religious conservatives.

Phil Byler on March 29, 2007 at 1:58 PM

I also think that it is very mistaken to be skeptical about John McCain’s efforts to patch things up with religious conservatives. There was a spat back in 2000, but John McCain’s books on courage and character reflect a man who should have support from religious conservatives.

Well, I am a religious conservative, and I am skeptical. His speech in 2000 was passionate and I think it represents what John McCain really believes about us. His rhetoric now is political posturing, and I don’t appreciate it.

As for the books, I read “Faith of My Fathers.” Very good book, but I base my lack of support for his political ambitions on his political actions, not his honorable service.

Slublog on March 29, 2007 at 2:04 PM

I’ll repeat what I wrote at Ace’s and then I am done. I understand why many of you are angry at McCain. I’ve been angry with him too.

If I was looking for a religious conservative I suppose I would have to go with Mitt. But, believe it or not, religion is not my top priority for President. McCain is certainly no religious conservative. But he is a leader. He understands the enemy we face more than any of the candidates because he has LITERALLY faced and fought such an enemy and they did not break him. They made him stronger. Strong enough to fight this horrible infected monster that threatens us today.

I have known politicans all my life. We all know how they are. They are, for the most part, egotistical power hungry men and McCain is that too, but he is more. He went through the fire and he survived and lived a life dedicated to public service. He raised his children to love this country enough to join the service in time of war. That says more to me about his love for this country than any campaign finance reform bill and any immigration stance.

He said recently that he’d rather lose this election than lose this war. He wasn’t changing his mind about the war just to get elected. The war is not popular even among Republicans. McCain could have made a different stance and been the “maverick” once again. But he understands the fight and he understands how important it is.

McCain may love the limelight, but he loves this country more.

Of that, I am sure.

Rightwingsparkle on March 29, 2007 at 2:08 PM

Well, the problem thirteen28 is that, like or not, the frontrunners we have are the frontrunners we have. And my main concern is that so many seem to put McCain bashing before the real goal of beating Hillary.(and she will get the nomination folks. That is and always has been a given)

I hope I am wrong. I hope you can all say to me “ha ha told ya so” and Hillary doesn’t get the nomination. But I’d bet all the tea in China on her right now.

I’m not as convinced as you are regarding Hillary. She may yet get the nomination, but it hasn’t been (and won’t be) the cakewalk that everybody predicted for her.

As for the “real goal” mine at the present is to see McVain knocked out of the race. As Hugh Hewitt said, he’s been a good American, but a bad senator and a terrible Republican. By far, McVain has been openly hostile towards the Republican party and key consituencies thereof than any of the other candidates. So while I’m hardly thrilled (to put it mildly) with Rudy or Romney, I’d take either one of them over McVain any day of the week and twice on Sunday. As slub said, it’s not that we underestimate him – it’s that we know him all too well.

And while I have my doubts about Rudy being able to make it through the primaries, he certainly seems to be kicking McVain’s a$$ at the moment. But if he made it to the general, I think he could certainly kick Hillary’s butt, as her negatives are significantly higher than his.

Hopefully, Fred jumps in and makes all of this moot. He’ll have his imperfections as well, but his bandwagon seems much more promising than any of the others I’ve seen.

thirteen28 on March 29, 2007 at 2:09 PM

Ok, here is my last try. Please take a look at this interview with McCain (not seen by many since it was on Christian TV)

You guys read all the negative on McCain. Take a look at one interview that proves to me the kind of man McCain is.

McCain only talks about his POW time if asked. But it’s important to understand where he comes from. Just watch it. That is all I ask.

Here it is.

Also, 6 days ago ARG had new poll numbers from Iowa and New Hampshire.(emphasis mine)This poll does include Thompson and to be fair, McCain had just visited. But it is telling that McCain can garner the numbers by just showing them who he is. This is why I say you guys underestimate him.

“In Iowa, ARG now has McCain and Rudy tied at 29%, with Thompson at 12% and Romney at 10%. 11% of likely caucus goers — a notoriously tough universe to sample — said they were undecided. McCain leads Giuliani 39%-30% among Independents in the Hawkeye State.

In New Hampshire, ARG has McCain at 23% to Rudy’s 19%. Romney gets 17%, Newt 11% and Thompson 10%. 15% of likely Granite State primary voters are undecided. Among Indepdenents there — the folks who powered the maverick to victory in the 2000 New Hampshire primary — McCain’s lead over Rudy grows to 33%-22%.

Rightwingsparkle on March 29, 2007 at 3:03 PM

Iowa is irrelevant – political theater.

New Hampshire didn’t do a lot for McCain in 2000, did it?

Slublog on March 29, 2007 at 3:04 PM

The interview was moving, ultimately won’t do much for voters who feel betrayed by McCain’s behavior since getting elected.

He’s going to have to do a lot more than talk about his honorable military service to win some of us back in the primary.

Slublog on March 29, 2007 at 3:11 PM

All term limits does is give you a variety pack of sleezewads instead of the old, comforting sleezewad.

Ringmaster on March 29, 2007 at 3:37 PM

Variety is the spice of life…

Slublog on March 29, 2007 at 4:07 PM

Rightwingsparkle on March 29, 2007 at 3:03 PM

Your loyalty is admirable, RWS.

Perhaps had your candidate of choice shown the same loyalty to the Republican party (that helped him attain the stature to where he can be taken seriously as a presidential candidate in the first place) that you have shown towards him, then maybe I’d consider him worthy of my vote.

But he didn’t … so I don’t.

thirteen28 on March 29, 2007 at 4:07 PM

Yes, we should all honor McCain for his patriotic service and acknowledge his determination to survive as a POW, however, this confinement seems to have affected his mind. He is a confusing man with a very hostile temper and irrational behavior at times.
I doubt he could have ever been elected senator in the first place, if it hadn’t been for the emotions of the electorate to hold him in an esteemed position because of his long term POW status.
His actions since becoming a public figure are reminiscent of the Mancurian Candidate——hmmm, I just wonder!

gunter on March 29, 2007 at 5:34 PM

According to these same dems, “Everybody lies.” Which, if true, means that they’re probably lying now. But since everybody lies, the line about everybody lying is most likely a lie.

cmay on March 30, 2007 at 10:52 AM

He was on Hannity yesterday, and the question was asked of him.

He flat out denies it, and asked, “Why would it be over 6 years later for this to come out? Come on…”

Rick Donaldson on March 30, 2007 at 11:22 AM

Based on John McCain’s flat and persuasive denial stated to Sean Hannity and what I stated in my March 29 7:14 AM and 1:58 PM posts above, I think we should take John McCain’s word on this one.

Phil Byler on March 30, 2007 at 2:50 PM

mccain: You sunk my battleship!

me: Good bye!

Highrise on March 31, 2007 at 4:44 AM

oh please..mccain has been a sell out for a long time to the republican party. He is the only nominee that will make me actually shed tears voting for him because I won’t vote for any of the dems atm.

he can go suck his mccain feingold measure.

Highrise on March 31, 2007 at 4:46 AM

Look what the GOP did to those like J.C. Watts and others? Used.
JetBoy on March 29, 2007 at 9:08 AM

In a perfect world, my ideal GOP team is Fred Thompson/Jim DeMint of SC with J.C. Watts VP.

Or Michael Steele of Maryland and Senator Sessions of Alabama.

ColtsFan on January 12, 2008 at 1:07 PM