Minimum wage jobs require no skills or education to speak of. They are jobs that very nearly anyone can do. As a general rule, the more people that can do a job, the more easily someone holding that job can be replaced and the less the job pays as a result.

And about all these “breadwinners” trapped at minimum wage: Before we take the liberal approach of automatically assuming these people are all the helpless victims of cruel forces outside themselves, we should ask a few questions about how they got where they are in the first place. For example: How many of these folks have been involved in crime or drugs? How many of them failed to finish high school? How many of them started having children without benefit of wedlock while they were still teenagers?

Does considering questions like these make me less than “compassionate”?

Forgive me for doubting that the way to prevent complete liberal domination of government is for those of us who are not liberal to adopt a key liberal principle.

Not everything is in the Constitution. By right, you should respect your parents and care for them as they get older. What!! Not in the Constitution!!!

I’ll be damned. LOL

honora on March 22, 2007 at 12:57 PM

You should also not hold any god above the Lord. You gonna put that into law, too?

You have no right, either unalienable or otherwise, to force your definition of compassion on the men and women that make this country work. You want to yoke the small businesses of this nation with your socialism and let them bear the burden of your pipe dreams.

Yeah, that’s real compassion. Compassion at the point of a gun.

Those increases by right should be shared by both capital and labor.

Please point to the section of the Constitution that establishes this astonishing right.

Not everything is in the Constitution. By right, you should respect your parents and care for them as they get older. What!! Not in the Constitution!!!

I’ll be damned. LOL

If you listen to the full interview he says I have to go right after Rush hammered him on the medical insurance BS. Arnold voice was sounding like he was getting angry then he said I have to go.

I cannot believe Arnold is trying to force people into socialized medical care and at the same time calling himself a republican. I live in California and most conservatives are outraged with this sell out pandering to the left and Illegal Aliens.

He has put our state into an additional 8 billion in the red since he has taken office.

Arnold is a perfect example why you cannot vote for RHINO’S. I voted for Sen. Tom McClintock even though our Republican Party here never gives him any support.

What is a sin is being forced to pay someone more than they are worth such that you cannot pay someone else what they are worth. That is truly immoral.

Those increases by right should be shared by both capital and labor.

Please point to the section of the Constitution that establishes this astonishing right.

Avarice is a sin.

You clearly don’t own a small business.

The fact is that minimum wage increases don’t help. They hurt and any benefit of MW increases is lost to inflation. It isn’t me saying it, but world renown economists including the head of the Economics Department at George Mason University, Walter Williams. You also have Thomas Sowell, Texas A&M Professors of Economics and all of CATO’s economists have been saying the same thing. Von Mises and all Austrian Economists agree that MW increases hurt more than help.

Well as I’m sure you know, you can find economists on all sides of any issue. I prefer to look at data–take a look at the general economic indicators preceding and following MW increases in the US. You’ll notice something interesting–no effect.

I have a moral objection to not increasing the minimum wage as well. We have had a period of enormous increases in productivity. Those increases by right should be shared by both capital and labor. They have not. And in a very simplistic and judgemental statement, in my view, it simply is not right. Avarice is a sin.

spmat on March 22, 2007 at 12:01 AM

And here you’ve struck on a key difference between the left and the right. His bludgeoning of the word “compassion”, and the reactions he received from HotAir, readers reveals how the two sides treat political opponents.

The Right says, “I have a considered, logical opinion about politics, so if you don’t agree with me then you’re probably an idiot.” The Left says, “I am on the side of Goodness, so if you don’t agree with me then you must be evil.” Despite the fact that socialist economics is at this very moment causing suffering, hunger, and poverty around the globe, only one side of this debate is claiming the side of goodness and “compassion”, and implicating opposing views as the side of evil.

This split in treatment plays out many times in many ways. “Anyone who doesn’t support Affirmative Action is an evil racist”… “Anyone who doesn’t support periodic increase in MW is an evil corporate shill”… “Anyone who supports the military is an evil bloodthirsty warmonger”… “Anyone who supports aggressive counter-terrorism is an evil fascist.” Compare these positions to the Right. “Affirmative Action is stupid and counterproductive”… “Minimum Wage increases are idiotic publicity stunts for Washington”… “Decrying our military is like throwing down our shield on the battlefield: stupid”… “Anyone turning a blind eye to terrorism is being willfully stupid.”

The beleifs of the left, in my experience, don’t stem from any practical application, but from an emotional attachment to the side of “Good”. Which is why their beliefs never die no matter how many times their schemes fail in the real world: they are on the side of “Good” so there must be some “Evil” reason why they didn’t succeed this time. And who is more evil than bloodthristy, greedy, world-killing, racist Rethuglikkkans? The Left has the corner on the Goodness market.

I agree with Governator that increasing the minimum wage is effective in improving the condition of those at the lower end of the earning scale.

There is one major weakness that the Republican party has, and the reason they are held back in poltical influence and power. The Republican party has consistently favored wealthy and corporate interests to the deterement of the nation and it’s citizens. If the Republican party would change that one stand, favor to wealthy and corporate interests at the expense of the nation, they would have overwhelming support.

The fact is that minimum wage increases don’t help. They hurt and any benefit of MW increases is lost to inflation. It isn’t me saying it, but world renown economists including the head of the Economics Department at George Mason University, Walter Williams. You also have Thomas Sowell, Texas A&M Professors of Economics and all of CATO’s economists have been saying the same thing. Von Mises and all Austrian Economists agree that MW increases hurt more than help.

The government pressuring businesses to keep wages artificially high actually prolonged the Great Depression. Read about it in the definitive work on the Great Depression, written by Murray N. Rothbard.

The fact isn’t that we need back down and give this ground, we need to education the public about the effects of the WM increase.

BTW, the name isn’t from Buckaroo Banzai, is it?

omegaram on March 21, 2007 at 11:42 PM

So how many people do you employ and exactly what do you pay them? Do you provide them with a 401K that you contribute to, how about a Medical/Dental Plan, what about Workman’s Comp Insurance, Overhead, Sensitivty Training, what about a quarterly or yearly bonus, or do you offer a profit sharing plan, what about your IT costs, employee theft, inventory control, intelectual license, IT upgrades, servers, phones, (I guess that goes to overhead), OSHA regulations, safety inspections, local, state, and federal licenses, what about your rent, or do you own the building, do you have any vehicles used, there are costs there as well, and your own life insurance, incase you die, your family still has an income……….?

Take your time……. start with the first question.

spmat on March 22, 2007 at 12:01 AM

I’m outing myself as a Proud Ferengi.

Viva La Capitalism!

spmat on March 22, 2007 at 12:01 AM

Word.

spmat on March 22, 2007 at 12:01 AM

Amen.

Compassion. The most twisted word in modern politics. It is not compassionate to put the boot-heel of governmental control on the means of production. Extorting higher wages under the pretense of compassion neither raises wages nor accomplishes anything resembling compassion.

Your whole argument is predicated on the assumption that business owners and companies are not qualified to determine the proper level of wages for their employees. You’re riddled with the rhetoric of the early 20th century, “Punish the greedy capitalists! They want to oppress the people! They eat babies!”

Listen, bubba. Capitalism, as opposed to Marxism or socialism, is responsible, as much as any economic model can be, for the good in the world today. The technology, the innovations, all the things that make this world go round are the result of the free market and the talents and hard work of free men. For all your talk of compassion and workers rights, if the European socialism you’re espousing were ever put into practice here in the United States, the world economy would grind to a halt.

Your Ferengi? They’re a caricature of capitalists, a vicious ad hominem one at that, created by generally leftist Hollywood writers. You suck it up like so much rancid milksop, content to think what they tell you, while real capitalists go about their business in the real world.

Capitalists, and their “greed,” create. What you call greed, I call hard work, sleepless nights, 18 hour days and a willingness to bear the burden of leadership in the face of scoundrels and thieves who want to take it all away in the name of compassion.

Your compassion will have us all begging for scraps at the table of Mother State. God help us all if we give in to the looters and grafters preaching compassion. I’ll fight you, full faced and proud to keep your compassion out of the way of innovation and economic freedom. In the meantime, all this evil greed will create wealth, grow the economy and provide far more real income for working Americans than any governmental scheme could.

Nearly Half of Minimum-Wage Workers Are the Household’s Chief Breadwinner

Opponents of increasing the minimum wage often portray minimum-wage workers as middle-class teenagers. Some fit that description, but many others do not. Recent Census data show that among those workers likely to get a pay increase as a direct result of a minimum-wage increase:

nearly half (48 percent) are the household’s chief breadwinner — that is, no higher-paid family members live with them; and
nearly half (47 percent) were poor or near-poor in the prior year — that is, they lived in families with cash incomes below twice the poverty line.a
One reason many minimum-wage workers have low incomes is that they are not employed full-time throughout the year. Low-wage jobs often have high turnover rates, and low-wage workers sometimes have to leave their jobs to care for an ill family member or when child care arrangements fall through. Low-income working parents typically work close to full-time when they are employed, but have periods of joblessness over the course of the year.

Here in adult land though we realize that “people who barely can make a living” are not people on minimum wage. Minimum wage people are kids and tertiary earners, not primary earners. The idea that the American poor are just barely scraping by on minimum wage because the evil Republicans are whoring themselves to big corporations, like this is the freaking depression or something, is nothing but Marxist claptrap.

Did you know that during the Cold War, the Soviets produced a movie about the American poor in an attempt to embarass America before the world? It backfired when the Russians saw the movie and said, “Oh my God! American poor people have TVs and cars?”

Contrary to popular opinon my political persuasion is not to the Left, quite to the contrary. I do not blindly follow conservative ideology however. Support for American citizens who are at or near federal poverty levels makes sense not only from the perspective of a nationalist who believes in our country, but also for polticial support in the coming election.

Omegaram is worth listening to on the issue of political support unless you want to be hit with “President Obama” or “President Clinton – of the Hillary variety” every time the news comes on.

I believe that a significant deciding factor in the contest for federal political control is for Republicans to counter the image that they favor the wealthy and corporate interests at the expense of the nation and the majority of the population. This does not mean advocating government spending that can be classified as pork, excessive government spending, funding programs that advocate a political position, or other spending that one would associate with the Left. This does mean advocating reasonable, moderate, effective, and efficient aid for the poor and those that are proven to be at lower income levels, and a measure of progressive taxation that shifts oppressive financial burden from poor and middle class families to the wealthy and corporate interests.

Advocating passage of a level of minimum wage for American citizens from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour over a period to 2009 , which covers less than 3% of the United States working population, is not the excessive spending that may be associated with the Left. Current minimum wages in many states are above or near that level already. The additional income for those at minimum wage would be of great significance, and be a step in the right direction for Republicans to loose the image of favoring the wealthy and corporate interests.

The response from so many in this thread calling one who advocates raising the minimum wage illustrates an issue with those on the right. Anyone who does not buy into the party line completely is anything from a Marxist to a Progressive. I believe that Republican support for raising the minimum wage, securing our borders, no amnesty for illegal aliens, criminal prosecution of those who hire illegal aliens, keeping the AMT and inheritance taxes, and active courting of the electorate concerned with economic issues can be decisive in Republican success in the next election.

have a question, are Union wages are tied to the minimum wage?

TheBigOldDog on March 21, 2007 at 9:51 PM

Nailed it!

Back to the topic at hand, you have to remember how Arnold came into power. A very rare “recall” of a sitting Gov. (can’t quite remember his name, more, I don’t want to, I live in CA)…. he worked the talk shows, he went from town to town in his Hummer, he talked “Conservative” talking points, he even mentioned “Securing the Border”…. Result, he was elected.

Then he gets to the CA State Capital, a place oozing with Union Special Interest money in everyone’s pocket, controlled by the Democrats since the begining of time…. He tries to enact reforms, they are blocked, he goes back to the voters………

Low and behold, he has 50 million to pass his initiatives, and the Labor/Teachers/and every other union from across the country dump almost 300 million to defeat his proposals, proposals that the citizens wanted but the power stucture didn’t, and between La Raza, oh I meant to say Los Angeles, and San Fransico, they took the day…….

His last resort to get anything done……. go left.

Now, myself and my children, and their children, and their children, and their children, are going to have to pay for bonds for work projects, that won’t fix the problems, but ensure that union workers get a “livable wage”.

Is omegaram Happy?

omegaram is moron of the highest order. Minimum wage hikes screw small businesses, and most economic growth is a result of small business activity. Most minimum wage activity is menial work meant for teenagers or 2nd income people in a family.

His TR worship is laughable, there is no comparison to today’s economy to that of 1910′s, of course he throws in plenty of stabs at the big business spectre, of course. He then brushes away the damage on small business, that they’re just a bunch of greedy dicks, despite the fact that many small businesses struggle, and any hit against them can put them under.

Your socialist rhetoric is disgusting, comrade.

OK, whose next? Taking all Farengi on because they are one of the big reasons the Left has so much federal political control.
omegaram on March 21, 2007 at 9:06 PM

And which is it? Ferengi or Farengi?
I honestly do not know what reference this is.

If the AMT does not seem fair because of regional differences in expenses then advocate change that takes this factor into account.
omegaram on March 21, 2007 at 9:39 PM

That would mean that you do agree that the local market between employers and employees should be allowed to freely make those adjustments, in order to be fair to local conditions. Ahh. Good.

are good for the worker

omegaram on March 21, 2007 at 7:41 PM

omegaram – you sound like a marxist. You obviously have no experience in the real world.

TheBigOldDog on March 21, 2007 at 9:19 PM

He does talk like one don’t he?