“Chocolate city” mayor fears vanilla marshmallow plot

posted at 11:58 am on March 18, 2007 by Allahpundit

He takes his appearances before black audiences as an almost Pavlovian cue to race-bait, so if there’s any real news here it’s that he got through the speech without accusing Bush of having blown up the levees or used the CIA to flood the ghettos with crack.

Give him time, though. He might be saving that for next year’s MLK Day speech.

New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin has suggested that the slow recovery and rebuilding of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina — which has prevented many black former residents from returning — is part of a plan to change the racial makeup and political leadership of his and other cities.

“Ladies and gentlemen, what happened in New Orleans could happen anywhere,” Nagin said at a dinner sponsored by the National Newspaper Publishers Association, a trade group for newspapers that target black readers. “They are studying this model of natural disasters, dispersing the community and changing the electoral process in that community.”

Referring to [Lt. Gov. Mitch] Landrieu, who is white, as “the golden boy,” Nagin suggested his chance at reelection in the mayoral race had seemed slim because “they dispersed all of our people across 44 states with one-way tickets.”

Redistricting by hurricane, in other words. Which makes this only the second-craziest Katrina-related racial conspiracy theory. Don’t ever change, Ray.

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Maybe he was just trying to think of the most harmless thing, something he loved from his childhood.

Is there a Camp Waconda in Louisiana?

Slublog on March 18, 2007 at 12:04 PM

Never been to New Orleans. Never had a desire to go. Never plan on going.

robblefarian on March 18, 2007 at 12:06 PM

great headline

TheBigOldDog on March 18, 2007 at 12:07 PM

If New Orleans continues to reelect this guy, then they deserve him. NOLA was a dump before the hurricane. If it was such a huge tourist attraction and revenue generator, then why was such a large percent unemployed and on the public dole? Everywhere you look in NOLA there are help wanted signs. If people want to move back, they can. I think they won’t because they either got a ticket out to something bigger and better or they are waiting for someone else to pay for their return.

DAT60A3 on March 18, 2007 at 12:07 PM

Damn, someone already made the obvious ghostbusters joke :(

lorien1973 on March 18, 2007 at 12:10 PM

I’ve never been to New Orleans, but I have always heard it smelled like urine. Interesting that the politicians down there are full of s***, too.

SouthernGent on March 18, 2007 at 12:11 PM

Maybe he was just trying to think of the most harmless thing, something he loved from his childhood.

Is there a Camp Waconda in Louisiana?

Well played, Slublog. Well played.

Dave Shay on March 18, 2007 at 12:12 PM

Never been to New Orleans. Never had a desire to go. Never plan on going.

Want to “pretend” to go to NO? It’s easy. Go to your bathroom, use the toilet and not flush for say, a month. After a month, bring in a bunch of hotdogs (representing the sex and porn shops that line bourbon st) in there and dress your dog like a cat and your cat like a dog. Turn on some skanky music. Close the door, turn out the lights; then rob yourself. There, you’ve just visited New Orleans! Did you have fun?

lorien1973 on March 18, 2007 at 12:13 PM

I emailed you guys the Nagin story yesterday afternoon. Drudge was a day late…

Opinionnation on March 18, 2007 at 12:15 PM

People aren’t returning and they’ve still had how many shootings?

All the more reason for the Dems to hold their convention in NOLA, what say you, Howard?

reaganaut on March 18, 2007 at 12:20 PM

Damn, someone already made the obvious ghostbusters joke :(

It’s kind of sad, how much useless pop culture is rattling around in my brain.

Slublog on March 18, 2007 at 12:21 PM

I think Nagin needs to look in the mirror to see why his own people are not coming back. That one way ticket let those people see how the rest of America lives and they like it. I’ve see people on tv who were brought up here to Kansas City.
They said they have no intention of going back because they love it here. I’m trully alarmed that he, of all people, doesn’t think those who have left NO (the blacks he is concerned about) have the brains to see that they are far better off anywhere in the USA than they ever were there. They see that kids in the schools in other places actually get educatets etc. Seems to me he will just have to wallow in the stye he has built.

Alilshy on March 18, 2007 at 12:31 PM

this moron has been the most responsible in delaying the rebuilding of NO…..I hope they keep him in office until there is not much left then maybe the real job can be handled by someone more competent….

robo on March 18, 2007 at 12:34 PM

NOLA was a dump before the hurricane

At least they got their streets cleaned…well maybe just adjusted.

Wade on March 18, 2007 at 12:42 PM

In defense of New Orleans, they always had great (and I mean GREAT) food and wonderful music. I haven’t been back since Katrina so I don’t know about it now, but the depravity did make it one of the saddest cities to visit as well.

Rightwingsparkle on March 18, 2007 at 12:51 PM

He also referred to Mary Landrieu as a “golden boy“.

armylawyer on March 18, 2007 at 12:59 PM

Damn, someone already made the obvious ghostbusters joke :(

It’s kind of sad, how much useless pop culture is rattling around in my brain.

Slublog on March 18, 2007 at 12:21 PM

Mine too.
Can we go with other gratuitous Ghostbuster references, or do they have to be about marshmallows?

“… um Ray, you said crossing the streams would be BAD.”

MattSkosh on March 18, 2007 at 1:12 PM

darn, attempt at multiple, nested blockquotes did not work as I thought it would. Can we have a comment preview thingy?

MattSkosh on March 18, 2007 at 1:18 PM

Want to “pretend” to go to NO? It’s easy. Go to your bathroom, use the toilet and not flush for say, a month. After a month, bring in a bunch of hotdogs (representing the sex and porn shops that line bourbon st) in there and dress your dog like a cat and your cat like a dog. Turn on some skanky music. Close the door, turn out the lights; then rob yourself. There, you’ve just visited New Orleans! Did you have fun?

Laughing out Loud.

Too bad it is true!

Bob's Kid on March 18, 2007 at 1:21 PM

Opinionnation on March 18, 2007 at 12:15 PM

Yep.

csdeven on March 18, 2007 at 1:30 PM

I suggest he seek professional help.

Maybe people are staying away because they fear for their lives.

JammieWearingFool on March 18, 2007 at 1:32 PM

Speaking of useless pop culture……Nagin looks like Homey the Clown to me. I have come to referring to him as “The Clown from Chocolate Town”.

I think Nagin needs to look in the mirror to see why his own people are not coming back.

Alilshy on March 18, 2007 at 12:31 PM

Homey don’t play that.

csdeven on March 18, 2007 at 1:37 PM

Didn’t he used to say that no one wanted his people? Now he says that no one will give them back? In the famous words of Dan Rather, “What’s the frequency, Kenneth?”.

bloggless on March 18, 2007 at 1:39 PM

“New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin has suggested that the slow recovery and rebuilding of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina — which has prevented many black former residents from returning”

Fixed it.

lorien1973 on March 18, 2007 at 12:13 PM

That’s a riot, ROFL! And spot on.

fogw on March 18, 2007 at 1:40 PM

Never been to New Orleans. Never had a desire to go. Never plan on going.

Imagine if Savannah smelled like Cleveland looks, and you’d have New Orleans.

fusionaddict on March 18, 2007 at 1:43 PM

I had always planned on visiting New Orleans at some point in life. The re-election of a rascist mayor has convinced me not to go. If Nagin wants a chocolate city and his people re-elect him, well then I just wouldn’t fit in there. I live in Vegas so I can get all the world class dining and great music that I want anyway. Maybe we should have a new add campaign…

Come to Vegas! We welcome all flavors.

Mojave Mark on March 18, 2007 at 1:44 PM

Speaking as a Louisiana resident (no sympathy cards in the stores for this affliction), this is typical Nagin. Blanco has a good chance of losing to Jindal in the next election and the wheels have been set in motion to get John Breaux to run.

The real prize in all of Nagin’s blustering is this:
The 2010 census will reflect the more than a 50% drop in New Orleans population. This will cost the state one or two house seats and more importantly the built in protections New Orleans had set up for its tax base will go away. Why? Because the built in protections were contingent on a population of more than 500,000.

With some 90,000-100,000 houses left to be torn down it is very unlikely that a mass migration back to New Orleans will take place anytime soon.

Bradky on March 18, 2007 at 1:50 PM

“Redistricting by hurricane, in other words.”

Rove is so sneaky, words can’t describe. Next he’ll make an earthquake to break up the California coven.

Kevin M on March 18, 2007 at 2:30 PM

First of all what happened in New Orleans wasn’t a “natural disaster”…. It was very UNnatural… A poorly designed city, poorly designed and constructed levees for which there was supposedly concern of them overtopping in Cat 3 conditions… Only between Cat 1 and 2 struck NOLA and they didn’t “overtop”, they BROKE/FAILED! This douche refused to use buses as outlined in their own evacuation plans. The governor refused a mandatory evactuation. The Louisiana emergency officials were all awaiting trial over some $65 million in federal funds that went missing. The city was already the most corupt in the nation. The governor delayed calling for the National Guard. The governor stopped the Red Cross from entering the city. Etc. etc. etc.

But here’s the kicker… All this race baiting is not only bullsh** to anyone with an ounce of common sense… it’s probably BS.

WHITES DIED AT A DISPROPORTIONATELY HIGH RATE.
http://www.rightwinged.com/2006/02/disproportionately_high_number.html

RightWinged on March 18, 2007 at 2:36 PM

The funding for the levees had been coming in — most under reported story was how those funds had been “reallocated” in the last several years. I’d make the argument the Corp of Engineers knew what it was doing but didn’t get the funds intended for them with which to accomplish it.

Other factoid not harped on was the matter of logistics. Even after the hurricane hit, it took at least another twelve hours for the storm to clear the region so that the trucks could roll. Add to that the pieces of I-10 that dropped into the bayous and the common sense explanations become more realistic.

The feds weren’t lily white in some of the mistakes made but the state and local authorities were largely left untouched by the national media — hard to believe but most of the people in Louisiana know it took a village to make this mess.

Bradky on March 18, 2007 at 2:42 PM

armylawyer,

Unfortunately, we in LA are “blessed” with at least two of the Landrieu family in our political system. MITCH Landrieu was the other runoff candidate for NO mayor and he is male. Sister MARY Landrieu is our senator and she is female.

There’s no “there” there and the original blogger made a mistake. If he’d reread the original article, he’d have caught “Mitch” in the text and perhaps not made the mistake.

LibbyLA on March 18, 2007 at 3:08 PM

If only The Man hadn’t stopped Mayor Wonka from rescuing his citizens with the Ray Nagin Memorial Motorpool, he could have been able to bring them all back.

Damn you and your hurricanes, George Bush!

Pablo on March 18, 2007 at 3:26 PM

armylawyer,

Unfortunately, we in LA are “blessed” with at least two of the Landrieu family in our political system. MITCH Landrieu was the other runoff candidate for NO mayor and he is male. Sister MARY Landrieu is our senator and she is female.

There’s no “there” there and the original blogger made a mistake. If he’d reread the original article, he’d have caught “Mitch” in the text and perhaps not made the mistake.

LibbyLA on March 18, 2007 at 3:08 PM

All I know is that Mary Landrieu is a piece of garbage.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169133,00.html

WALLACE: Senator Landrieu, I want to ask you — and I’ll ask you both, but let me start with you — about the local response.

Was it incompetent and insulting for Mayor Ray Nagin to order a mandatory evacuation, but then to leave buses — and we have a picture of them — hundreds of buses idle, so that they could be flooded, instead of using them to get people out.

LANDRIEU: Well, Chris, I was there, as you know, through the whole ordeal with state and local officials, and was right there with Louisiana Democrats and Republicans, city council members, police chiefs, mayors, the governors, and could watch what Haley Barbour was doing and Governor Riley in Alabama.

I am not going to level criticism at the local level. These people did…

WALLACE: But I’d like you to answer, if you could, this one specific question.

LANDRIEU: Well, I will. I will answer it. I am not going to level criticism at local and state officials. Mayor Nagin and most mayors in this country have a hard time getting their people to work on a sunny day, let alone getting them out of the city in front of a hurricane. And it’s because this administration and administrations before them do not understand the difficulties that mayors — whether they are in Orlando, Miami, or New Orleans — face.

(CROSSTALK)

LANDRIEU: In other words, this administration did not believe in mass transit. They won’t even get people to work on a sunny day, let alone getting them out…

WALLACE: But Senator, there were hundreds of buses sitting in that parking lot. Can I just ask the question?

LANDRIEU: You can, but let me finish, if I could, please.

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: Well, look in the picture here. There were hundreds of buses in parking lots. The city and the state.

LANDRIEU: That is underwater. Those…

WALLACE: It wasn’t underwater before the

LANDRIEU: Those buses were underwater. Those buses

WALLACE: They weren’t underwater on Saturday; they weren’t underwater on Sunday.

LANDRIEU: We had two catastrophes. We had a hurricane and then we had a levee break. When the levee broke, not only did New Orleans go underwater, but St. Bernard when underwater and St. Tammany Parish went underwater.

WALLACE: But they weren’t underwater on Sunday.

LANDRIEU: And Plaquemines went underwater. And because the mayor evacuated the city, we had the best evacuation between Haley Barbour and Kathleen Blanco of any evacuation I’ve seen. I’m 50 years old; I’ve never seen one any better.

WALLACE: But there were a hundred thousand people left in the city.

LANDRIEU: They did a hundred thousand people left in the city because this federal government won’t support cities to evacuate people, whether it’s from earthquakes, tornadoes, or hurricanes. And that’s the truth.

And that will come out in the hearing.

What a lying piece of trash. She’s pure evil.

RightWinged on March 18, 2007 at 3:33 PM

Rove is so sneaky, words can’t describe. Next he’ll make an earthquake to break up the California coven.

Just get my boy and his girl out of Berkeley before he does, and I’m cool with that.

/living in the valley where there’s a lot of red

Bob's Kid on March 18, 2007 at 3:34 PM

Been in NO several times, before ‘Mr. Bush ordered the storm to destroy it’.

Found the city interesting to visit, and truly an American treasure.

Sitting around for hours, sipping on a classic Nawlins Hurricane, while listening to Louis Armstrong and his style of music, walking and seeing the raunchiness of Bourbon St., walking more and hearing young kids “shooe shiiine?”, declining the shine but tipping those kids who’d try to play an instrument, while taught by grandpa; observing those paddle boats on a lazy river stroll…smell and all, knowing that one would leave the next day, or two…was a little heaven. Good and interesting food, indeed.

Never again. Good memories and sad realization of what it now is.

Entelechy on March 18, 2007 at 4:12 PM

Ladies and gentlemen, what happened in New Orleans could happen anywhere,” Nagin said.

Really? How many American cities are below sea level AND lie smack dab on a hurricane prone shoreline? And how many American cities are also famous for corrupt civil mismanagement and rampant crime? No thanks Willie Wonka. It’s not us, it’s you.
Take your chocolate city and shove it where Mayo keeps his gerbil.

Buck Turgidson on March 18, 2007 at 4:14 PM

I’d make the argument the Corp of Engineers knew what it was doing

Bradky on March 18, 2007 at 2:42 PM

Bradky, read up on this – Paul at Wizbang owns this story. The levee breaks were absolutely the Corps’ fault – they even admitted it. The levees were built according to design, but the designs were faulty. So even though we are loaded down with corruption here, that wasn’t a factor in the levee breaks.

As for Nagin – a lot of us here are not Nagin fans, but believe it or not, in this particular election he was the reform candidate. We said “No” to the Cajun Kennedys, and as bad as Nagin is, Landrieu would have been worse.

Laura on March 18, 2007 at 4:20 PM

Buck, this is the first serious hurricane we’ve had in about 40 years. How many earthquakes, mudslides, and fires have we had in the Los Angeles area in the last decade? If you want to focus on hurricanes, are you willing to evacuate the entire coast of Florida?

Laura on March 18, 2007 at 4:23 PM

I’d make the argument the Corp of Engineers knew what it was doing

Bradky on March 18, 2007 at 2:42 PM

Bradky, read up on this – Paul at Wizbang owns this story. The levee breaks were absolutely the Corps’ fault – they even admitted it. The levees were built according to design, but the designs were faulty. So even though we are loaded down with corruption here, that wasn’t a factor in the levee breaks.

As for Nagin – a lot of us here are not Nagin fans, but believe it or not, in this particular election he was the reform candidate. We said “No” to the Cajun Kennedys, and as bad as Nagin is, Landrieu would have been worse.

Laura on March 18, 2007 at 4:20 PM

Laura,
I went to the links but none of the links I tried on his site linked to source data. Just brings up a dead link on the Times Picayune.So while he has interesting opinons, I can’t accept them as facts.
I googled a little and did find that none of the levees were designed to hold more than a Cat 3 storm in the first place.Since Katrina was in the 4-5 range,even if what you say is true, the point is moot.
Further in 90 years the levees will need to be 60 feet high in order to offset the wetlands erosion.
It is time to cut the losses and face reality — New Orleans should not be resettled in pre-Katrina numbers. US taxpayers can’t be expected to fund a 500 billion dollar restoration that is only good for another 90 years.

Bradky on March 18, 2007 at 4:44 PM

Buck, this is the first serious hurricane we’ve had in about 40 years. How many earthquakes, mudslides, and fires have we had in the Los Angeles area in the last decade? If you want to focus on hurricanes, are you willing to evacuate the entire coast of Florida?

Laura on March 18, 2007 at 4:23 PM

Laura, firstly I apologize If you are from N.O. and my comment offended. It’s Nagin I have a problem with not the city it’s self. Secondly, yes, Nagin’s “what happened here” quote referred to a hurricane not disasters of all types. It’s no secret many hurricanes have hit many places in years past and the people of Florida know how to evacuate when they have to. I have fled from the path of a couple myself. My point was that NO is below sea level and what made the disaster worse than usual was the flooding. The residents who were stranded in the flood should have gotten out either themselves or with local gov’t help and neither occurred. NO is unique. So are the known risk factors of living there. I resent people, (individuals or gov’t) not taking action then blaming the federal gov’t who begged them to make evacuation mandatory. How many people in Biloxi were trapped by flooding after the storm had passed?

Buck Turgidson on March 18, 2007 at 5:05 PM

The New Orlean’s Levee Board was responsible for the levees that overtopped and the pumps that did not work during Katrina. They misappropriated million and millions of dollars that very well might have protected NO and they’re still in charge right now.

I’m calling New Orleans a quagmire and suggest we redeploy our resources elsewhere. Young American’s lives are being wasted in New Orleans without any end to the bloodshed in sight.

Buzzy on March 18, 2007 at 5:35 PM

Nagin is an idiot. He should be worried about this. If amnesty passses while the migrants are in town, goodbye “Chocolate City.” When a third of the City is Hispanic and reproducing relentlessly, what’s he going to do? Silly me, since Bush has suspended immigration enforcement in the Gulf Coast it will be his fault and not Black’s democrat for remaining silent over illegal immigration. But that will be small comfort when Hispanics start voting everyone, not Hispanic out of office and or job positions. It will be too late to blame Bush…

Theworldisnotenough on March 18, 2007 at 5:42 PM

The levee breaks were absolutely the Corps’ fault – they even admitted it. The levees were built according to design, but the designs were faulty. So even though we are loaded down with corruption here, that wasn’t a factor in the levee breaks. Laura on March 18, 2007 at 4:20 PM

I disagree the levee breaks were the Corps fault. They were fine before the hurricane hit. Anything, including the WTC could have been designed or built to withstand more abuse than anticipated. Water will always do what water does. People in hurricane country always have to decide, evacuate or ride it out and hope it misses. In NO doing the latter is even more irresponsible than practically anywhere else.

Buck Turgidson on March 18, 2007 at 5:49 PM

I had the pleasure, yes I said pleasure of spending a week in New Orleans during Mardi Gras. My wife and I stayed through Fat Tuesday. If you get all your information from the MSM then all you know about Mardis Gras is the French Quarter version. That part is for adults

The largest part of the celebrating does not occur there. It occurs in areas called Mid Town and Up Town as well as cities surrounding NO and this is where families live. The themes of the parades are family oriented and kid friendly. If you haven’t seen it it’s hard to describe. The parade routes are covered with families, kids 1000′s of them, tents, BBQ pits with some camping over night to save their spot. My favorite, they build a small box on top of ladders to strap the kids in so they have a birds eye view of the floats. The kids can sometimes reach out touch the people on the floats. Kids playing in the street before and after parades. It reminded me of my childhood when it was still considered safe to run around the neighborhood and play till “the street lights came on”.

We spoke to dozens of residents of NO and they tell incredible stories of how they fought to get back and rebuild. The people of NO love their city, it has a personality all it’s own. I can tell that every time I ask someone how Nagen got reelected they got so mad they couldn’t speak. Many threw their arms up and shook with anger. They are tired of the “Welfare State” created in NO and they want it to end.

There are many stories I could tell but it would take up too much space. There is one quote from a women who told me that the greatest fear they have as they rebuild is “Cookie Cutter Houses”. I live in one, after seeing NO and it’s no two house are the same architecture I understand.

I knew there was more to the story than I was seeing in the MSM. The MSM have no clue what the residents want or how they feel.

I’m glad I went and I will go back. My wife and I had a great time.

Take care all

Bogeyfre on March 18, 2007 at 6:05 PM

Laura,

Buck, this is the first serious hurricane we’ve had in about 40 years. How many earthquakes, mudslides, and fires have we had in the Los Angeles area in the last decade? If you want to focus on hurricanes, are you willing to evacuate the entire coast of Florida?

The entire coast of Florida isn’t below sea level and sinking/eroding. Water will continue to seek it’s own level no matter how many billions we throw at it.

Pablo on March 18, 2007 at 6:27 PM

As I understand it, there are thousands of families that have moved to NO, and are helping with the clean up and rebuilding the houses.

They are illegal aliens from Mexico.

And when they are finished, they are not going to leave.

Maybe that is why he is so upset?

The two words that is keeping the former residents away?

“Help Wanted”

PinkyBigglesworth on March 18, 2007 at 6:36 PM

NO should be bulldozed into the sea. In 5 years, no one will miss it for any ligitimate reason that would justify the money that’s being spent to rebuild that $hithole.

csdeven on March 18, 2007 at 6:59 PM

I googled a little and did find that none of the levees were designed to hold more than a Cat 3 storm in the first place.Since Katrina was in the 4-5 range,even if what you say is true, the point is moot.

Bradky on March 18, 2007 at 4:44 PM

references

http://www.factcheck.org/article344.html

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/feb2000/nf00201f.htm?scriptFramed%3FscriptFramed

http://www.beliefnet.com/blogs/crunchycon/2007/03/global-warming-and-new-orleans.html

Bradky on March 18, 2007 at 5:01 PM

I’m not going to go back and figure out exactly what you guys are debating, but I have to point out that contrary to that FactCheck.org link which is very outdated, Katrina WAS NOT Category 4 to 5. It was in fact a 3 that struck east of NOLA. NOLA only endured category 1 to 2 conditions.

And Laura is right… Paul at Wizbang is the man on this issue and the Corps of Engineers was at fault… and contrary to that AP hit piece with the “friday night clarification” last year, no one warned anyone in government that the levees could fail. The only concerns had been about overtopping. The flooding from this, even if the storm had been a strong one, would have been nothing compared to a completely drowned city that followed the levees BREAKING. They were made to prevent OVERTOPPING at even category 3, but as I said, New Orleans didn’t even endure those conditions. There was A LOT OF LYING around this issue, and I’m not going to spend all the time rehashing this old issue, other than to point out this WAPO discovery that got little attention outside of conservative blogs who’s intent was truth, not Bush hate:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/21/AR2005122101960.html

Ugh, this whole issue is just irritating because virtually everything reported in the media was a lie. Remember the Superdome hysteria? Bodies piling up? And let me just repeat my first comment here since I’m to lazy to repeat all of the real story vs. what we’ve all been told:

First of all what happened in New Orleans wasn’t a “natural disaster”…. It was very UNnatural… A poorly designed city, poorly designed and constructed levees for which there was supposedly concern of them overtopping in Cat 3 conditions… Only between Cat 1 and 2 struck NOLA and they didn’t “overtop”, they BROKE/FAILED! This douche refused to use buses as outlined in their own evacuation plans. The governor refused a mandatory evactuation. The Louisiana emergency officials were all awaiting trial over some $65 million in federal funds that went missing. The city was already the most corupt in the nation. The governor delayed calling for the National Guard. The governor stopped the Red Cross from entering the city. Etc. etc. etc.

But here’s the kicker… All this race baiting is not only bullsh** to anyone with an ounce of common sense… it’s probably BS.

WHITES DIED AT A DISPROPORTIONATELY HIGH RATE.
http://www.rightwinged.com/2006/02/disproportionately_high_number.html

RightWinged on March 18, 2007 at 2:36 PM

RightWinged on March 18, 2007 at 7:21 PM

Wow, csdeven, tell us what you really think.

Buck Turgidson on March 18, 2007 at 7:38 PM

I’m not going to go back and figure out exactly what you guys are debating, but I have to point out that contrary to that FactCheck.org link which is very outdated, Katrina WAS NOT Category 4 to 5. It was in fact a 3 that struck east of NOLA. NOLA only endured category 1 to 2 conditions.
RightWinged on March 18, 2007 at 7:21 PM

In the article you cited the following is quoted and contradicts your own assertions.

“In the Gulf, Katrina was a Category 5 storm, and the surge was still Category 5 when it hit the ground,” said spokesman Susan Jackson. “It’s the surge — the pressure of water against those levee walls — that’s the most important factor, not the winds.”

National Hurricane Center scientists similarly noted that though Katrina was probably a Category 3 storm at landfall, with winds of 125 mph, its destructive force was probably amplified by the fact it had been a Category 5 only a day before landfall and whipped the waters up beyond Category 3 levels. While the winds die off quickly, waves do not.

Yesterday’s report echoed earlier conclusions by Louisiana State University experts who had gathered their own data on the storm’s intensity.

Bradky on March 18, 2007 at 7:38 PM

That’s simply not accurate Bradky… it’s common knowledge that the overtopping never happened, which would have been the case, had it been the storm surge of a category 5.

RightWinged on March 18, 2007 at 9:33 PM

Don’t you just LOVE black racists, especially when they are prominent persons, like Chocolate City Mayor Ray Nagin?

Give that man a prize!

Hey Ray,

Got Hate?

William

William2006 on March 18, 2007 at 10:44 PM

By the way Bradky, here’s a post with supporting links that explains what I’m talking about:

http://www.brendanloy.com/2005/10/katrina-may-have-been-weaker-than.html

The storm surge WAS NOT as powerful as some claim. The Corps of Engineers and others have been playing a game of CYA and you need to check out ALL of WaPos coverage, and listen to what experts actually studying what happened and reconstructing it to learn how it really went down. Again, NOLA only experienced category 1 to 2 conditions at most and the levees should have held… they were supposed to withstand category 3, and even above that, the only concerns expressed (publicly and to officials anyway) was overtopping, which would have caused flooding, but not total flooding as happened when the levees broke. And again, the “but it still had a category 5 storm surge” doesn’t wash, because as we know, the surge never even came close to overtopping, which it would easily have, had there been a category 5 style storm surge.

RightWinged on March 18, 2007 at 10:53 PM

Interesting and informative debate regarding levee integrity and I thank all for the education. I’m left with two concerns. A) people in the flooded areas should have evacuated as a precaution regardless of circumstance or inconvenience. B) Nagin’s comments illustrate the double standard applied to black and white statements regarding racial preferences. I’m less bothered by what he said than the fact that any white person making a similar statement would have to go to rehab or worse. Night’ all.

Buck Turgidson on March 18, 2007 at 11:19 PM

Buck, I agree with you – people should have evacuated. Nagin should have done more to get people out, especially follow the established plan that called for the use of the flooded buses. There was also a train that was practically empty when it left the city. No excuse for that. And Nagin has certainly shown himself to be a racist, and not the reformer that he was in his first term. But he was still a better choice than Mitch Landrieu. If Mitch had got in, we’d never be able to pry him loose. It’s bad enough that he’s Lt. Gov, the last thing we need is to put a major port city in his care. That whole family has EARNED the designation, “the Cajun Kennedys” – they’re bad news.

One last thing about the levees – they were seeping for over a year before Katrina. People complained, and nothing was done. And where the seepage was reported, was where they broke. There’s actually video of the 17th St. Canal break, early in the break, that shows they were nowhere near overtopping. The Corps managed to suppress that video for almost a year, and when it finally did go public, there wasn’t much outrage because most of the country had moved on. But there are an awful lot of levees all over the country that the Corps has mismanaged – there was a report on that recently – and what happened here will happen again, probably in CA.

Laura on March 19, 2007 at 12:30 AM

I haven’t read thru the thread comments so if this was said above I apologize:

I don’t care a single iota for NO. When they re-elected this SOB they lost any sympathy I have for the city. Bulldoze the place flat and turn it into a wetland for Americas contribution to carbon-offsets.

Limerick on March 19, 2007 at 8:43 AM

RightWinged on March 18, 2007 at 9:33 PM

RW,
The quote I cited was from the article YOU referenced. Why would I need to look at other links you provide when you are not even reading them yourself?

Bradky on March 19, 2007 at 8:46 AM

Way to have an informed opinion, Limerick.

Laura on March 19, 2007 at 8:51 AM

For those of you who’d like to write us off – you might want to keep a few things in mind:
- while every other state gets 50% of their oil/mineral revenue, since the Eisenhower administration, we’ve gotten NOTHING. Want to try to calculate how many billion dollars that is? You’re welcome.
- we are the busiest port in the world.
- we are one of the main reasons you’re only paying $2 a gallon instead of the post-Katrina prices.
- we’re the second largest fishery in the country

And once again, while I don’t defend Nagin’s actions in his second term, HE WAS THE REFORM CANDIDATE. In his first term he was a reformer to the point that he had his own cousin arrested and charged. Before Katrina, he was a good mayor. We had every reason to hope that he would pull himself together. The other candidate was Mitch Landreiu, one of the Cajun Kennedys and every bit as corrupt. His sister got into the Senate due to the votes of thousands of dead people. We don’t want more of the same old corruption, so people voted against Mitch in the hope that Nagin wouldn’t let us down. The fact that Nagin did indeed let us down doesn’t make his opponent a better candidate.

Laura on March 19, 2007 at 9:14 AM

Laura,

Good points on the importance of NO in regards to the economy. I’m not an advocate of let it all slip into the ocean but now is the time for everyone to be realistic about what NO will look like in 25 or 50 years. Couple of things to consider:

(1) It will take years to clean up the mess. For most of the people who had homes that were destroyed they will not wait that long to get started somewhere else.
(2) Unless the wetlands are restored NO is destined for the majority of it to be underwater in 100 years.
(3) The charming “street performers” didn’t do this because they loved doing it – they did it because the job situation was next to hopeless. Service based economies always make it tough for the majority of urban residents. Nagin’s first order of business after the storm was to get the casinos up and running again.

So what to do?
Start with an honest dialog about how to preserve it for the economic reasons you mentioned without trying to rebuild it in totality and planning on a similar catastrophe in the next 100 years.
It would seem that some of NO could be maintained with its historical district and outlying areas be the residential areas who commute in daily.

Your points about hurricanes in other states are relevant- I don’t like the idea of insuring houses in hurricane zones that are dependent on federal relief to make up the difference.

Bradky on March 19, 2007 at 9:25 AM

Unless we allow the Mississippi to begin building the wetlands back up, this interactive flash demonstrates how the Gulf will be at our doorsteps by about 2020. Most of the damage has been done in the last 70 years, and it won’t take that long to repair it, if we only have the will to do it, and can get past all the bureaucracy. In the meantime, the trend is already in place that the area above and to the west of Lake Pontchartrain is becoming increasingly more populated. Because it is so difficult to get home insurance, the real estate market in the city and its immediate surroundings is very sluggish. About half of the population (by some estimates – it’s difficult to count accurately) is illegal aliens who are helping rebuild by lowering wages, clogging up our ERs, and because of their illegal status, allowing employers violate OSHA regulations.

It’s going to take a few years for it all to shake out, and these simple declarative sentences (i.e. “bulldoze it”) that people keep tossing out are not helpful or based on accurate information.

Laura on March 19, 2007 at 11:55 AM

It’s going to take a few years for it all to shake out, and these simple declarative sentences (i.e. “bulldoze it”) that people keep tossing out are not helpful or based on accurate information.

Laura on March 19, 2007 at 11:55 AM

I agree with this but it is going to take a lot of frank and honest discussion among politicians and the state’s citizens to get a realistic plan in place. I’m not very optimistic that this will occur, especially in Louisiana.

Bradky on March 19, 2007 at 12:13 PM

I’m not very optimistic that this will occur,

I’m not either. Between the ultra-slow disbursement of the Federal aid – and the fact that MS got a *boatload* more money per capita than we did – the illegal aliens, lack of medical care, high murder rate, and the difficulty in getting home insurance… people are very close to a revolt around here, and I’m hoping for something to just push it a little bit farther. There has been political change – the old levee boards were dismantled, for instance – but it hasn’t gone far enough yet. I’ll stick it out for a few more years, and fight as hard as I can to make things better, but in six years when my daughter gets out of college, if things aren’t better we’re moving on. And I know an awful lot of people with similar plans.

Laura on March 19, 2007 at 12:26 PM

Oh, and one more reason not to stay – the Corps has not stopped lying and playing games with our safety. We just found out that the pumps they installed after Katrina, that they promised would keep us safe, were defective, and that they knew it before they were installed.

Laura on March 19, 2007 at 12:32 PM

RW,
The quote I cited was from the article YOU referenced. Why would I need to look at other links you provide when you are not even reading them yourself?

Bradky on March 19, 2007 at 8:46 AM

Bradky, I’m going to attempt to be civil with you, despite my frustration with your cherry-picking and dishonesty. YOU completely ignore the part of the link I sent showing that the storm was a category 1 to 2 AT MOST in New Orleans, and go straight for the “but the surge was still PROBABLY a 5″. Probably isn’t going to cut it. As my second link (which may be a blog, but I link it because it links to other WAPO pieces in a well organized post) shows, the surge WAS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THAT. THE SURGE WAS SO WEAK, IT NEVER EVEN CAME CLOSE TO OVERTOPPING, WHICH IT WOULD HAVE HAD IT EVEN BEEN A CATEGORY 3.

I’m not sure why you’re even arguing this, but these are things that were discovered over time, but VERY underreported. Should that shock you? We haven’t been told by the MSM that a disproportionate amount of white people died, and disproportionately LOW amount of black people died there. We haven’t been told that the bodies in the Superdone weren’t “piling up” that there weren’t gang battles and rapes going on everywhere you looked. We aren’t told that Bush begged them to force a mandatory evacuation. We aren’t told that Blanco blocked the Red Cross from entering the city. etc. etc. etc. Why are you hanging on so tightly to this LIE that the storm surge was still massive? Do you work for the Corps of Engineers or something?

RightWinged on March 19, 2007 at 1:54 PM

RW,

Cherry pick is what you did with the article if your description of what I did was cherry picking. Further it seems that you are less concerned with the issue of the storm and more involved with your anger about the underreporting in regards to the MSM.

I’m not sure why you’re even arguing this,

You admitted you hadn’t followed the earlier part of the thread

I’m not going to go back and figure out exactly what you guys are debating

and jumped in with your rage about race baiting.
The news was incorrect, no argument there, but the fact that you know some of the initial reporting was not true shows that eventually the truth did come out — just not front page like you seem to feel was merited.

Bradky on March 19, 2007 at 2:28 PM

rage about race baiting? I’m not sure what you’re saying… there wasn’t race baiting? Or race baiting was okay?

And no I didn’t cherrypick, I just gave you a detailed explanation, hoping you’d digest it.

I still don’t understand what your point is… I looked back at how we got here… I was glancing through comments and saw you provided three links, one of which was FactCheck.org, a site I usually like to check. But as soon as I got there I realized it was VERY outdated and WRONG.

So I provided information that the storm was a category 1 to 2 at most in NOLA. You chose to cite CYA “probablies” in the same article, contending that the storm surge was in fact still category 5. But as studies have shown, THE SURGE NEVER EVEN CAME CLOSE TO OVERTOPPING THE LEVEES, AS IT WOULD HAVE STARTED TO WITH A SURGE OF A CATEGORY 3.

Again, I have no idea what you’re attempting to argue.

RightWinged on March 19, 2007 at 3:11 PM

Laura,,,,,sorry I didn’t check back on the thread for awhile…..

Yep that’s me. Uninformed. Stupid KKK Irish IRA Bushitler.

N.O. deserves Nagin. America deserves a new wetland. Like the people in the Mississippi valley who build their houses on the river front…….you got flooded? Gee imagine that.

Limerick on March 19, 2007 at 3:44 PM

Better work on that reading comprehension, Limerick. In the past I have agreed with you on many issues and doubtless will again in the future, but on this one, you are way off base. I’ve explained clearly how we ended up with Nagin for a second term. Quite simply, the alternative was worse, and since he’d done a good job before Katrina, we had every reason to hope he’d pull himself together. It’s frustrating that he hasn’t, but he’s STILL better than Landreiu.

And while you’re talking about what America deserves, I guess that means you’ll deserve gas prices at the levels they were immediately after Katrina, and much higher costs for fresh seafood, etc…

Laura on March 19, 2007 at 4:57 PM

Better work on that reading comprehension, Limerick. In the past I have agreed with you on many issues and doubtless will again in the future, but on this one, you are way off base. I’ve explained clearly how we ended up with Nagin for a second term. Quite simply, the alternative was worse, and since he’d done a good job before Katrina, we had every reason to hope he’d pull himself together. It’s frustrating that he hasn’t, but he’s STILL better than Landreiu.

Laura on March 19, 2007 at 4:57 PM

Laura, I’ve tried to stay away from that part of the discission as I desperately tried to figure out exactly what Bradky’s argument is… but I do have to comment on why you have Nagin again. I understand the argument about the the alternative being worse, but after his Katrina performance, are you telling me there weren’t at least a handful of people who would have sought the office and been able to easily gain a lot of support simply because they weren’t Ray “buses” Nagin? I mean, you should have been able to put up anyone and defeat him, after he let all of those people die, no?

I’m not saying elect Mitch by any means, but how is it that there were no other candidates? I’m sure there must have been a few early on in the race that considered a run. It seems clear that people there must be complete idiots if they couldn’t have urged even a retarded homeless person to run just to get Nagin out of there.

I’m really just at a loss for how anyone could vote for a guy who is almost entirely responsible for the deaths in NOLA.

RightWinged on March 19, 2007 at 5:11 PM

There were a *boatload* of candidates. But Nagin and Landreiu, unfortunately, are the two that made the runoff. Several other candidates would have been excellent, but lacked the money and name recognition that Nagin and Landrieu had – and remember how many voters were still living in other states at the time, making campaigning even more expensive. Also remember that before Katrina, Nagin really was a good mayor, and people remembered that. He’s completely flipped out since then, of course. People were hoping he’d pull himself together and he just hasn’t.

And one more thing (argh! I DO NOT want to defend Nagin!) – it’s really not a fair statement to say that he’s “almost entirely responsible” for the deaths. People didn’t want to go. Nagin was on the news early and often begging people to get out, saying “this is the big one, get out NOW.” Which Katrina was, before the track changed slightly to the east, hitting St. Bernard and the MS Gulf coast instead of New Orleans. People just decided to “ride it out” – a phrase which drives me right over the edge.

Nagin blew it with the buses and the train, I completely admit. I don’t have an explanation or an excuse for that. I doubt even he does. But many of the people who stayed had the means to leave and chose not to, and it’s not right to lay that at his feet. And it also leaves out the Corps of Engineers.

Laura on March 19, 2007 at 5:38 PM

Laura on March 19, 2007 at 5:38 PM

You’re right, the Corps of Engineers are to blame for the damage, but I think Blanco and Nagin are to blame for much of the death. Blanco, it is my understanding, could have forced a mandatory evacuation but refused to. But I agree completely that many people CHOSE not to leave. I guess my issue is that I hate to blame the victim, but I really hate to hear the Bush blaming that went on and is what is in the minds of most Americans. But in reality, you’re right, people chose not to leave. It’s similar to people who choose to go on insane hike’s, get stranded, and hundreds of thousands of tax dollars are spent trying to save them… only to a much more extreme degree.

Back to the election. I guess I get what you’re saying, and now I do recall the whole “run off” situation, etc. and also completely understand what you mean about name recognition… It’s just hard for me to conceive of this being the guy who people had no choice but to vote for:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=F_bbuc4cgJs

RightWinged on March 19, 2007 at 7:33 PM

I hate to blame the victim too, but sometimes the victim is at fault. There’s plenty of blame to go around in this whole fiasco. Blanco would make a fine second grade teacher but I wouldn’t trust her with much else. Bobby Jindal(R) is a reasonably safe bet to replace her, although I hate to lose him in the House. And next mayoral election, (please God don’t let Landrieu run again!) we’ll have a change there too. People are sick of the corruption and waste and have made a lot of changes at the lower levels that you don’t hear about on the national news. The old levee board system, the assessors, a lot of entrenched waste and corruption have already been cleaned out. It’s easier to do in the smaller elections but it’s getting done at higher and higher levels because people really are furious. I hope we can keep it up.

Laura on March 19, 2007 at 8:23 PM