Poll: Iraqis prefer life under Maliki to life under Saddam, 49%-26%
posted at 11:24 pm on March 17, 2007 by Allahpundit
Another 16% said they both reek. Righties will find cause for hope in those numbers, lefties will wonder why after four years we can’t get a clear majority to prefer life under American occupation to life under the Arab Stalin. Glass half-full, glass half-empty.
The whole poll is like that. You’re better off with the summary at the polling firm’s website than the Times of London article, which misleads a bit in reporting that only 27% of Iraqis say the country is in a state of civil war. That’s accurate as far as it goes, but another 22% say they’re “close” to a civil war but not there yet. TOL neglects to mention that.
If you can spare the time and concentration, it’s worth flipping through the crosstabs to compare the numbers by sect and ethnic group. Keep in mind that “Sunnis” encompasses both Arabs, most of whom are militantly opposed to the U.S. presence, and Kurds, most of whom are militantly in favor. So on page 26, where we find 51% of Sunnis and 31% of Arabs think life was better under Saddam, those numbers represent a huge majority of Sunni Arabs who say yes offset by equally huge majorities of Sunni Kurds and Arab Shiites, respectively, who say no. To get a rough sense of Sunni Arab opinion, check the region-by-region numbers for Anbar province. In this case, we find 78% preferred Saddam to the new government.
The most shocking result? Fully 26% of the people surveyed said they’d had a family member or relative murdered within the past three years. I wonder what a statistician could do with that number re: estimating a total post-invasion death toll. It sounds like it’d be big — Lancet-level big — but it’s hard to gauge total “families” from total population. Population is roughly 26 million; make it 24 million for easy calculation. Assume an average of 12 relatives per family for a total of 2 million families, and assume further that one person from every fourth family is murdered. Total murdered: 500,000. Increase the average to 24 relatives per family and it drops to 250,000. The problem is, “relative” could mean a lot of things given the tribal organization of Arab culture; the average “family” might be 50 members. Plus, there’s bound to be overlap where survey respondents have family members in common and they’re all identifying the same murder victim. I dunno. Any statisticians out there want to try?
Pages 71-74 break down the sample by ethnicity and sect, so pay closest attention to them. The good news is that 61% of Iraqis still identify as “Muslim.” Not “Sunni Muslim” or “Shia Muslim,” just “Muslim.” More surprisingly, among Arabs, Shiites were much more likely to identify by sect: 29% versus only 7% for Sunnis. Even in a mixed city like Baghdad, where you’d expect sectarian consciousness to be sky high, only 8% of the sample is identifying as “Sunni Muslim.” I’m not sure how many Sunnis are still there these days, but my sense is even the remnants are quite a bit more than 8% of the population. So there’s some reason for optimism: identification by sect is still a fringe thing — among Sunnis. Compare, however, the numbers on page 72 for “Sunni Muslims” in Anbar to “Shiite Muslims” in the south of the country. Both of those regions are homogeneous by sect, but there are huge differences: only 16% call themselves Sunni in the Sunni community but more than 50% in some southern provinces call themselves Shiite. I’d be curious to know if that’s a recent thing that sprouted after they won the elections and took control of the government or if it’s an artifact of Saddam-era solidarity in the face of oppression and disenfranchisement. I figure it’s the latter; the obvious analog is black consciousness in America vis-a-vis “white consciousness,” such as it is. Either way, the Shiite awakening makes things a lot easier for Iran.
Finally, did the poll oversample Sunnis and, in particular, Sunni Arabs? Look at column (h) on page 62. Unless I’m reading it wrong, 60% of Sunnis sampled were Arab and only 36% were Kurds. If so, that’s screwy: there are more Sunni Kurds in Iraq than Sunni Arabs. Now look at the first column on page 74, which breaks down the 61% who identified as “Muslim” (instead of “Sunni Muslim” or “Shiite Muslim”). Results: 46% were Sunni and 42% Shiite. 46% of 61% is 28%; add that to the 14% who identified as “Sunni Muslim” on page 71 and we’ve got 42% of respondents identifying as Sunni in one form or another. According to the CIA Factbook, though, the largest estimate of Sunni Muslims in Iraq is 37% of the population. (The smallest estimate is 32%.) If in fact Sunni Arabs were oversampled, it means the actual popularity of the Maliki government is probably a little higher than the survey would indicate. So maybe it is a clear majority who prefer him to Saddam. It’s just that the majority is overwhelmingly Shiite.
Anyway. What’d you do with your Saturday night?










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that’s why we have you, Almighty One.
heh.
pullingmyhairout on March 17, 2007 at 11:38 PM
I’m amazed anyone preferred life under Saddam. I guess it’s like those abused wives who won’t leave their husbands because, you know, “he’s a good man. He just gets angry sometimes ’cause I do stupid things”.
Nah, Allah, you’re probably right with this one:
thedecider on March 17, 2007 at 11:49 PM
Laughed heartily about Joe Biden’s temper tantrum over a well-done Sirloin and a glass of unsweetened iced tea.
Good Lt on March 17, 2007 at 11:53 PM
If you managed to stay out of the rape rooms and the plastic shredder, Saddam actually had a really nice healthcare plan and I hear the buffet at the annual Christmas party was awesome.
Professor Blather on March 18, 2007 at 12:10 AM
That “family member murdered” crap is BS. What a joke.
But the 49% preferring life under Maliki is actually damn good… the left can whine about not being a “clear majority” if they like…. but Bush would love to have 49% prefer him to Clinton, no?
I still fear the media and the Dems losing this for us back here at home by emboldening the enemy to keep killing civilians by promising them victory by “domestic divide and conquer”, but in reality, this, coupled with the millions who’ve proudly voted, etc. etc. is actually really great news… but again, VERY cautious optimism… because I know how powerful the media is.
RightWinged on March 18, 2007 at 12:41 AM
That 26 percent probably comes from several facets: scared to say otherwise still, they might be part of the moonbat population there and need to be told what to do, or they are a baathist (sp?) .
Highrise on March 18, 2007 at 1:10 AM
Combined with reports the surge is working, I’ll take the 49% combined the with 16% who want a pox on all. I agree with rightwinged about the “family member murdered” stat. Family means someone so far removed, you can marry her in all of these United States.
laelaps on March 18, 2007 at 2:34 AM
Aahhhhhhh… sorry AP, am I stil the only one who asks the basic question….
Who did the poll?
PinkyBigglesworth on March 18, 2007 at 2:44 AM
Sorry AP,
I hit “Enter” too fast, my point was not in my quote above, it was in that things “were not working”……… sorry, please don’t ban me…………
PinkyBigglesworth on March 18, 2007 at 2:46 AM
I remember hearing–before the war began–that something like 50% of Iraqis had a family member killed or “disappeared” under Saddam. I’m making that number up, but it was something much bigger than 26% if I recall correctly.
DaveS on March 18, 2007 at 2:55 AM
And nobody was thrown into a wood chipper if they answered wrong.
The lefties live by poll numbers, right? Therefore (as al-Gorea would say) ‘the debate is over’.
Tony737 on March 18, 2007 at 3:20 AM
As a “leftie” I disagree.
Nonfactor on March 18, 2007 at 4:01 AM
When I read that I smiled to myself. “This part of the poll isn’t true, but this other part of the poll is true.”
Most people will agree that Saddam was a horrible guy, but to say that “lefties” somehow want Saddam back in power or want Iraqi’s to feel a certain way is absurd.
Nonfactor on March 18, 2007 at 4:06 AM
Glad to make your day guy… But I think it’s very obvious that the “family” part of the poll is crap, based on the fact that this can be interpretted in a number of ways, and we all know those “hundreds of thousands” dead figures are completely ridiculous. The “under Maliki vs. Saddam” is pretty straight forward.
RightWinged on March 18, 2007 at 4:21 AM
And St. Patrick’s, no less! You’re a martyr.
Alex K on March 18, 2007 at 6:28 AM
More people are dying today because the world doesn’t give a damn about them. They say the do, may even think it, but they don’t. The enemy in Iraq civil and external know this from our recent history.
I don’t think that fact will ever get across. More than half of the deaths of our soldiers and Iraqi civiilians comes from those wanting to return them to bondage by demonizing one of the greatest efforts of our time.
I will say it again. When over 70% of Iraq voted amid violence…the world said great, but it is too violent for us to get involved. People cried out for help…nothing.
You are a great man Mr Bush. Our soldiers carry us as they always have.
tomas on March 18, 2007 at 9:12 AM
You feel that way because liberals want to view all events as if they exist in a vacuum. When a liberal says the war was a mistake, they are saying that they want Saddam back in power, but when you point that out to them, they, like you claim they don’t want him back in power. That begs the ridiculously obvious question of how were we supposed to get rid of him. Their next position is that of their usually inane default position of having dialog with the tyrant! UHhhhh, HELLO??!! We been there, done that! That is why you are called moonbats. You are constantly arguing in circles because you ignore those inconvienent truths that expose your ignorance.
I have zero expectations that you will finally see the light, because if you did, you’d be a conservative at best or a moderate dem at worst. So, spew forth your talking points that ignore the facts and we can all get back to real life where you liberals are still wrong and we conservatives are still right.
csdeven on March 18, 2007 at 9:30 AM
Your suspicion is correct, AP. Imagine five families, fifty members per family, 250 people total (for simplicity) Imagine one person in “Family 1″ was murdered a year back, no others murdered in either Family 1 or Families 2-5. That is 1 person known murdered out of 250 total people, or .4% (two/fifth of one percent).
Now, if a polling organization asks all 250 people if anyone in their family has been murdered, all 50 people in Family 1 will say “yes” and all 200 people in Families 2-5 will say “no”, so 20% of people will say they have lost a family member in the past year, or 50 times more than the % of people killed in the general population.
To get the people killed in the general population you would need to know average size of family, and average # of people killed in each family.
RW Wacko on March 18, 2007 at 11:29 AM
sorry for the crazy bolding
RW Wacko on March 18, 2007 at 11:30 AM
Excellent post!
infidel on March 18, 2007 at 1:28 PM
In my opinion this can’t be interpreted as anything other than encouraging news. Of course, I’m sure the MSM will find ways to avoid this entirely.
darwin on March 18, 2007 at 2:19 PM
For a moment their I thought you were talking about Darfur.
Thank you for trying to explain my “feelings,” but you’re wrong.
Wrong again.
I know! It’s so hard to answer! How on Earth could the United States have gotten rid of a dictator in the Middle East?! I DON’T KNOW THE ANSWER!!!
Nonfactor on March 18, 2007 at 2:29 PM
As an independent I want to know how many polls were conducted under Saddam about the life-under-papa regime satisfaction/dissatisfaction…
Entelechy on March 18, 2007 at 2:35 PM
The Reigning King of Self-Parody strikes again!
“Absurd” does indeed aptly describe both you and your ideological community. Well done!
All right, a wager for the rest of you: if I took Captain Absurd here up on his little challenge and went looking for examples of lefties explicitly stating that they wish Saddam was in power, or that life was better under Saddam … how many examples could I find?
You don’t have to be exact. What’s your guess, plus or minus 10,000 or so?
I’ve got dibs on 340,000. If you let me Google for a day.
Winner gets to slap Nonfactor while the rest of us point and laugh at the absurdity of it all.
Professor Blather on March 18, 2007 at 2:50 PM
Which will prove that you have the time to find people on the fringes? They exist on both sides, but I won’t criticize everyone on the right because of something some of their members believe.
Nonfactor on March 18, 2007 at 3:29 PM
I stayed home and watched Twelve Monkeys. Remember that movie? Ahhh, just gotta love a movie that actually has conservative elements to it.
One Angry Christian on March 18, 2007 at 4:11 PM
Somthing from quite a while ago.
iraqi War Winners and Losers:
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=25343 Fortunately there are many more winners in this war than losers. The Arab nations are rid of a regime that had not only given all Arabs a bad name but had acted as a center of conspiracy and aggression against many of them. There is not a single Arab leader today who would regret Saddam’s demise. All of Iraq’s neighbors could be included among the winners. Iran sees the end of a regime that provoked an eight-year war that claimed over a million lives. The toppling of Saddam also means the closure of anti-Iranian terrorist camps maintained by Saddam on Iraqi territory. The Baathist tyranny in Baghdad was like a time bomb that was bound to explode at some point.
Mazztek on March 18, 2007 at 5:58 PM
It’s what you read into it. Gilliam’s movies aren’t about a political slant, they’re about fantasy.
Nonfactor on March 18, 2007 at 7:29 PM
That “family member murdered” crap is BS. What a joke.
But the 49% preferring life under Maliki is actually damn good… the left can whine about not being a “clear majority” if they like…. but Bush would love to have 49% prefer him to Clinton, no?
I still fear the media and the Dems losing this for us back here at home by emboldening the enemy to keep killing civilians by promising them victory by “domestic divide and conquer”, but in reality, this, coupled with the millions who’ve proudly voted, etc. etc. is actually really great news… but again, VERY cautious optimism… because I know how powerful the media is.
RightWinged on March 18, 2007 at 12:41 AM
honora on March 19, 2007 at 11:17 AM
Neglected my comment, which on second thought should be readily apparent. Ummmm, cherries.
honora on March 19, 2007 at 11:18 AM
That surprised me too, until I remembered the average Iraqi family is probably hundreds of people.
TallDave on March 19, 2007 at 12:54 PM
Good Lord, if this polls oversamples Sunni Arabs, what does the considerably more negative BBC poll (for which, afaict, ethnicity is not given) do?
TallDave on March 19, 2007 at 12:57 PM
If you think of all your siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, and then all your spouse’s relatives–it’s pretty easy to get well over a hundred. And as you imply, the average Iraqi nuclear family is probably bigger than ours.
honora on March 19, 2007 at 1:13 PM