I’m fed up with our Government’s steadfast refusal to address the illegal immigration problem in this country. In Los Angeles today, hundreds of ’supporters’ gathered at the Los Angeles Sports Arena to demand an end to immigration raids by the…

The poll ignores the most sensible alternative and that is attrition through enforcement. The blatant omission of this choice calls into question Gallups credibility and agenda.

When given the attrition through enforcement choice in polls, that choice usually receives the majority of votes.

President Bush and the rest of the open borders crowd constantly tell the American people that there are only two solutions to our nation’s illegal alien crisis – give illegal aliens amnesty or round them up and deport them. This is a diversionary tactic to draw public attention away from the most effective and efficient solution – Attrition Through Enforcement.

Attrition Through Enforcement is the only common sense solution to the illegal immigration crisis, in my opinion.

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A temporary work system that creates a permanent imported slave labor class is not the middle choise or the moderate choise. That is a choice to end the republic as we know it or least turn back the clock to before the civil war.

Zetterson on March 14, 2007 at 5:35 PM

Jaherer22 is a hit-and-run kinda guy.

I see a problem with the way the question was worded. They were only given three choices. A choice not given (which I actually support) would be for anyone here illegally before the bill is passed has a chance to earn residency. NOT citizenship, but permanent residency. That way people who didn’t come here illegally and waited their turn could still earn citizenship and have some advantage over those that came here illegally.

Most people, even if believe its the right thing to do, would not choose to deport all 12 million illegal immigrants because it just isn’t realistically possible. I think if the question was worded was an open ended question or a yes/no question we might see different results.

Plus, I guarantee you most people aren’t familiar with the whole legal immigration/VISA/citizenship/residency process. If you explained to them about legal/illegal and residency/citizenship and the fact that citizenships would then be allowed to sponsor large numbers of family members to come here and become citizens, the numbers would change.

JaHerer22 on March 14, 2007 at 2:57 PM”

JaHerer22 I’m not really sure who it is you are responding to but I have to assume you were responding to my post which stated basically that polling “Americans” leads to a skew to the left. For the record I’m not saying that this poll is “made up.” Its a fact that polling “likely voters” turns out far different results then simply polling “Americans.” Anyone who conducts and constructs polls for a living will tell you exactly that. That is why more sophisticated/accurate polls have to spend a lot of money in order to garner what they think will be a fair representation of what the actual results will be on election day. It costs quite a bit of money to find out whether or not the person being sampled is likely to show up to the polls on election day. It is a fact that the people who do actually show up at the polls have significant differences in terms of income, lifestyle, age, race, education, and other various socioeconomic indicators in comparison to those who don’t show up on election day. If everyone in the country voted the results would be about 87% Democrat. Republicans want low turnout at the polls and Democrats want high turnout. Now, I think you can figure out which qualities a “likely voter” will have and as a result understand what this means in regards to polling results? Just look at a campaign map. Red (Bush) vs. Blue (Kerry) is a distinction of ideology, yes, but it is also, as frankly we know, essentially a division of social class, race, and income. The red audience is largely suburban, college educated, professional, middle class; the blue audience more urban, less well educated, lower income. This is not opinion. This is fact. Hence a random sample of Americans will always skew left. It is exactly what the results would be if every single solitary American showd up and voted on election day. Does that answer your sarcastic question?

Once illegals are legals, they’ll demand the minimum wage, which will eliminate their competitive advantage over unskilled American laborers … while also generating demand for new illegal laborers who’ll work for three dollars an hour.

If millions of additional workers begin demanding the minimal legal wage, some will get it, but it seems most will not. Some of the employers will fold up and leave their former workers jobless, while others will negotiate terms with their workers, by which they’ll go on paying less than the minimal legal wage. Nor can so many millions very well be put on a public payroll.

I don’t foresee very much; however, it seems the range of probable outcomes for norteamericanos will probably be improved if they do three things: (1) pick up some of that cheap labor for themselves, (2) have more children, and (3) learn Spanish. No, really: Having spent the last forty years building and paying for a big, comfy, “social welfare” state instead of having children, it really seems best for Americans to learn how to smile and say, “Buenos dias,” to all their young, tan neighbors. One might try dating and marrying them, too. What, you already have a wife? Well, have another.

Sorry if it came off like I was giving you sh** (personally) for not reading my post, I just felt that people need to understand the point about the alternative to the modern pansy GOP being the atrocious modern Democrat which would be ten times worse.

Read my entire post again, and focus on the part that actually mattered because I don’t feel like going over it all again.
RightWinged on March 14, 2007 at 4:04 PM

Someone give this guy a handful of Valium…

Jeeze, I said I generally agreed with the rest of it…Read my entire post again because I don’t feel like going over it all again…

Heh.

Dear Senator Frist:

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.

1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.

2. There are no jobs that Americans won’t do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can’t take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won’t do for a decent wage.

3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.

4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents.

5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.

6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.

7. There is no such thing as the “Hispanic vote”. Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called “Hispanic vote” is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.

8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don’t believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.

9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let’s allow those one billion to come to America and we’ll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I’ll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another nation?

10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.

11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price?

For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don’t even have the right to remain here?

There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010.

We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.

David J. Stoddard

U.S. Border Patrol (RET)

Hereford, Arizona

Yeah this poll is clearly not true, it’s probabaly just made up.

But all polls are designed to get a certain result. If we wanted to come up with a poll that showed Americans overwhelmingly oppose amnesty, we could do that in a heartbeat. We’d just have to reword the questions and ask them in a certain order.

Public opinion goals aren’t really worth much when it comes to specific issues, because the result is already known before the poll is conducted.

tommy1 on March 14, 2007 at 3:15 PM

And a good number of those idiots vote, so we oughta show some concern, even if it is a skewed poll.

And you’re absolutely right, my friend. We should be concerned, and I AM, as I always am whenever a new poll reveals what the ballast on the semi-sentient slope of the Bell Curve are “thinking”, for lack of a better word.

I was just expressing, in my usual endearing fashion, just how highly I think of those retards and how I hold their opinion in utter, unapologetic disregard. Not to mention that what they “think” is less likely to influence my opinion than the seemingly random motions of bacteria in a Petri dish.

But, again, you’re right. We need to work on that, no matter how thankless of a task it is to constantly have to patiently explain basic facts to slobbering drones glued to their La-Z-Boys in front of American Idol.

They should try asking a trucker at a truck stop in Nashville, who’s working 60+ hours a week, with 2 kids, one in college, and a mortgage to pay.

The glowing media coverage attendant to the Senate debating and then passing its immigration bill on May 25th, probably. The more pap people are fed about the “undocumented” coming out of the shadows to do the jobs Americans won’t do, the more they support amnesty.

Nah Allah. People hate amnesty but support a “path to citizenship.” It is the undocumented vs. illegal alien game. The difference in nomenclature accounts for the high support. The exact same poll using amnesty instead of “path to citizenship” gets less support guaranteed. People seem to think “path to citizenship” means there will be an appropriate penalty accessed and a line in which to wait.

For example, the option that garnered 59% was loaded. It said that immigrants must meet “certain requirements” without spelling out what those requirements might be. Hell, I might even be willing to consider that option if those “certain requirements” were rigorous enough. I just don’t think that any requirements made by the Bush administration would be that tough. Also, no option was given for deporting illegals and securing our border. Thus the choice was between deporting all illegals (who will presumably come back without a border fence or tougher employment verification and enforcement), having them work a temporary period of time (not possible, so long as the “anchor baby” interpretation of the Constitution is in effect), and throw up our hands and letting them become American citizens if they meet certain requirements. Well, honestly, if those were my only two choices, given the ineffectual nature of the first two options, the third doesn’t look so bad.

In any event, this is what they were proposing last time around:

1) Pay any back taxes you owe for the past three years (without the usual late fees and penalties actual citizens would be required to pay if they didn’t pay their taxes). Of course, those who were eligible had to be here a minimum of five years, thus allowing illegals a tax amnesty banana for 2+ years automatically. Many illegal immigrants would not actually owe any taxes. Most of them probably don’t make enough and even verifying the income of those who do would probably prove nearly impossible. Of course, the five year requirement will be hard to verify also. This will allow for massive fraud, just like it did during the last amnesty.

2) Learn an inconsequential, non-functional amount of English, just like the last amnesty.

3) Finally, purchase American citizenship for $2,000.

On second thought, supporting a path to citizenship might not be in the worst interests of the poor. Once illegals are legals, they’ll demand the minimum wage, which will eliminate their competitive advantage over unskilled American laborers … while also generating demand for new illegal laborers who’ll work for three dollars an hour. Hence the GOP emphasis on sealing the border first and dealing with the people who are here second.

Or we keep doing what we are doing, and step up the pace of Operation Return To Sender. The final stroke would be Operation Turnstyle in which we properly man the ICE’s H-2A visa program, making it easier to get temporary workers into the country. Illegal aliens looking at legal migrants working where they used to work will run back to their home countries to and get in line. No round up needed.

JaHerer22 on March 14, 2007 at 2:57 PM

Are you referring to the polls that showed that the Republicans were going to get trounced?

Democrats ended up with a 1 vote margin in the Senate that hinges on an independent continuing to caucus with you.

Throw in the fact that many more of the races were extremely tight (decided by a few hundred votes) and what you have is a victory, but nowhere near the trouncing the the polls indicated.

The result was so much lower than what the poll data indicated that many Democrats had a bad taste in their mouth about the victory because they had only barely eaked it out.

So yes, it probably is skewed similarly to the polls from back in October.

Misha I: 50% of the population are idiots.

And a good number of those idiots vote, so we oughta show some concern, even if it is a skewed poll.