Its really interesting….

I addressed this fact.

The Bible, and the Judeo-Christian faith does have examples of believers following God’s command to kill.

I addressed them in the body of my response above in my post marked William2006 on March 1, 2007 at 5:58 PM.

Bottom line, I clarified the differences between Islam and Christianity, but I did address the fact that the Christian bible does include examples of God telling people to kill others.

William

William2006 on March 2, 2007 at 4:03 AM

Also, while many Christians do not consider the OT to be equal with the NT, the only place the act of war and how to wage it is really talked about is in OT. The NT does not condemn war, Paul who was chained to soldiers for years at a time never wrote once about how evil soldiers were, even though he spoke of sharing the Gospel.

Finally, wars as outlined were not against individuals, but societies that were a threat or were judged evil. Therefore war is a duty to destroy evil. It is God’s allowing of Natural Evil to end Moral Evil. It is not called upon Christians in society to destroy Moral Evil through Natural Evil, but it is governments duty to stop Moral Evil through the punishment of Natural Evil. This doesn’t mean that all infractions or Scripture should be horrendously punished, nor does this mean that society doesn’t allow sin, but sins that affect the corporate of society should be punished.

Example: Adultry is a corporate moral evil and with STDs and such is a corporate Natural Evil. If you are found cheating on your spouse you should lose everything, 95% or even 100% of your marriage’s assets should go to the faithful spouse. That is just.

your ignorance of “Christian reconstructionis” aside, you are no better than Chris Hedges.

jp on March 1, 2007 at 2:30 PM

Exactly, except for Gary North (and he is latched onto his position because he is a Convent/Calvinist), Christian Reconstructionists do not call for a theocracy. While some may call for a secession so they can go their way and the rest can go their way, the fact is that the over-whelming majority of the US has Christianist values. If you listed value by value and asked people to accept or reject each value on merit, the majority would agree with the values of “Christianists”.

While I’m not in the South, I don’t care if they secede. The fact is that the constitution that they would write would be just like the CSA’s Constitution in the sense it improved in a few weaknesses yet in 90% of it looked like the Original Constitution and would run more like the Original Intent of the Founding Fathers.

If anything it would be a freer land than this country is presently.

Did I miss something in your post. You talk about Christians, but you leave out the New Testament. Aren’t Christians the followers of Christ? Didn’t Christ come in with a new order? How much death and destruction and killing did Jesus participate in or promote? I think your theology is missing something.
Let me see, what is it missing…

right2bright on March 2, 2007 at 1:08 AM

right2bright,

Yes, you DID miss something.

Here is what you missed:

My comment, which you inquire about, was in response to the following:

“I am just astonished today. I don’t know why so much today , more than other days, but I am.
Reality? Or am I living in a nightmare. Do people just bash Christianity and Christians for money? Or do somehow in their twisted minds ( maybe planted by twisted professors) do they really think that anyone can compare Christianity and Islam when it comes to killing people of other faiths, written orders to kill, acts of terror, even ‘killing gets you into paradise with 6 dozen virgins’ , etc?
How far out there does one have to be? How much hate does one have in their heart? If there is a satan, is this evil alive and plotting inside these lost souls/people?”

shooter on March 1, 2007 at 5:42 PM

I addressed this fact.

The Bible, and the Judeo-Christian faith does have examples of believers following God’s command to kill.

I addressed them in the body of my response above in my post marked William2006 on March 1, 2007 at 5:58 PM.

Bottom line, I clarified the differences between Islam and Christianity, but I did address the fact that the Christian bible does include examples of God telling people to kill others.

William

William2006 on March 1, 2007 at 5:58 PM

Did I miss something in your post. You talk about Christians, but you leave out the New Testament. Aren’t Christians the followers of Christ? Didn’t Christ come in with a new order? How much death and destruction and killing did Jesus participate in or promote? I think your theology is missing something.
Let me see, what is it missing…

Maxx on March 1, 2007 at 8:12 PM

That’s a great find Maxx. Every once in awhile we get a loon in here that posts that the third reich was a conservative movement, and not a socialist, marxist style. That is just one more argument why the left is so dangerous.

Did not Christ fulfill the Law? Did God come down and make a covenant with the founding fathers of America? I’ve sat under theonomic preaching for two years. I’ve watched a pastor run out of the ministry because of his stance against it. It’s heretical and it’s a disservice to the Kingdom of God. CHRIST was the true Israel. He kept the Law. The gospel has now spread to all nations. Didn’t the writer of Hebrews develop the idea of the typology of the Old Testament figures and temple practices?

“It is not possible to ramrod God’s blessings from the top down, unless you are God…. Only humanists believe that man is Go

d. They do indeed believe in social salvation through ramrodding by the state. Christians are simply trying to get the ramrod away from them and melt it down.”

“The Bible does not allow the imposition of some sort of top-down bureaucratic tyranny in the name of Christ. The kingdom of God requires a bottom-up society. The bottom-up Christian society rests ultimately on the doctrine of self-government under God, with God’s law as the publicly revealed standard of performance. It is the humanists’ view of society that promotes top-down bureaucratic power. …”

Reconstructionism is heretical.

Atheists, relax.

I was proud to be a Catholic when Pope John Paul II “ordered” all the priest here in the US who held elected public office to resign. That was great.

While the left constantly derides Christianity as intolerant, the opposite is true, Christianity is a wellspring of tolerance. American was indeed founded as a Christian nation and it still is a Christian nation. Every theism in the world can be found here and we all reside together in relative harmony. You can be an atheist, or any religion for that matter and live well in America. You don’t need to be concerned about a loud knock in the middle of the night and being imprisoned or killed for your particular belief.

That is not true where atheist are the majority and atheism has become the state’s religion. Where the state has become God, there is no room for competition. China is one example of this today, but there are many. And looking to history, we find this:

LIFE IN THE THIRD REICH: 1933-1937

Not many Germans lost much sleep over the arrests of a few thousand pastors and priests or over the quarreling of the various Protestant sects. And even fewer paused to reflect that under the leadership of Rosenberg, Bormann and Himmler, who were backed by Hitler, the Nazi regime intended eventually to destroy Christianity in Germany, if it could, and substitute the old paganism of the early tribal Germanic gods and the new paganism of the Nazi extremists. As Bormann, one of the men closest to Hitler, said publicly in 1941, ”National Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable.”

What the Hitler government envisioned for Germany was clearly set out in a thirty-point program for the ”National Reich Church” drawn up during the war by Rosenberg, an outspoken pagan, who among his other offices held that of “the Fuehrer’s Delegate for the Entire Intellectual and Philosophical Education and Instruction for the National Socialist Party.” A few of its thirty articles convey the essentials:

1. The National Reich Church of Germany categorically claims the exclusive right and the exclusive power to control all churches within the borders of the Reich: it declares these to be national churches of the German Reich.

5. The National Church is determined to exterminate irrevocably. . . the strange and foreign Christian faiths imported into Germany in the ill-omened year.

7. The National Church has no scribes, pastors, chaplains or priests, but National Reich orators are to speak in them.

13. The National church demands immediate cessation of the publishing and dissemination of the Bible in Germany . . .

14. The National Church declares that to it, and therefore to the German nation, it has been decided that the Fuehrer’s Mein Kampf is the greatest of all documents. It . . . not only contains the greatest but it embodies the purest and truest ethics for the present and future life of our nation.

18. The National Church will clear away from its altars all crucifixes, Bibles and pictures of saints.

19. On the altars there must be nothing but Mein Kampf (to the German nation and therefore to God the most sacred book) and to the left of the altar a sword.

30. On the day of its foundation, the Christian Cross must be removed from all churches, cathedrals and chapels . . . and it must be superseded by the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika.

The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich, Chapter 8, pages 212 – 213

– by William L. Shirer

Hitler hated Christianity and did everything in his power to destroy it as the excerpt above clearly shows. Many Christians in Germany died trying to stop the Nazis and many Christians gave shelter to the Jews to hide them from the Nazis at the risk of their own lives. And it was a predominately Christian allied force that destroyed the Nazis. Yet Mr. Hedges says that Christians are Nazis ?

The left hates Christianity and there is nothing new about that, but if Mr. Hedges wants to destroy Christianity then he is the one like Hitler and he is the one that is like the Nazis.

Thank you Robert Spenser for that excellent presentation.

You made some cogent, hard hitting points in your posts above.

William

I would really like to hear Robert Spencer do a piece about what the definition of a “Moderate” Muslim is.

These are all Reconstructionist sentiments, jp. So what is it that I’m missing? Thank God for Christian orthodoxy and for 200 years of Enlightenment and romantic checks on nutty Christian heresies like Reconstructionism.

Somethin’ I missed about this one, jp?

“The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church’s public marks of the covenant–baptism and holy communion–must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel.” — Gary North

What am I not understanding about this?

You’re right, jp, Gary North and Rousas Rushdoony didn’t mean what they said. It’s all sweetness and light and doing Jesus’s work.

Gimme a break.