The Christianist Distraction
posted at 11:25 am on March 1, 2007 by Bryan
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posted at 11:25 am on March 1, 2007 by Bryan
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If you want the Christian religion to be ineffective or be destroyed…make it a state run entity.
right2bright on March 1, 2007 at 11:34 AM
Thank you Robert Spencer for that excellent presentation.
Hedges’ book specifically compares evangelicals to Nazis and suggests that the “solution” to this problem is to outlaw fundamentalism, all for the good of society of course.
Hedges is a grade A demagogue.
John on March 1, 2007 at 11:55 AM
Typical… LOOK LOOK… theres a threat… uh… really… and uh… Im a hero for pointing it out…
Of course, you don’t hear of many Religious/Legal death sentences (Fatwas) put out by the Christian right… so its pretty safe to attack them…
Romeo13 on March 1, 2007 at 12:02 PM
Yeah, I’m only a third through Hedges book, but early on he makes all the typical “I’m a Christian myself, but … ” qualifications which amount to the admission that he doesn’t believe any of it, at least not in the way that THEY do.
That said, Christian Reconstructionists are basket-cases themselves, and though they pose little threat and have little power, they are troubling. Do a simple search for “Gary North” quotes, or “Rushdoony” quotes and you will all sorts of creepy ideas, the most notorious being North’s claim that “turning the other cheek” was a bribe to be used by weakling Christians, only valid so long as they stood outside political and military power and authority.
Muslims and Christian Reconstructionists deserve each other, and Chris Hedges deserves both.
Drum on March 1, 2007 at 12:09 PM
Chris Hedges probably is salivating over James Cameron’s *discovery*.
Aunt B on March 1, 2007 at 12:38 PM
Chris Hedges, a barking moonbat, sounding the alarm! They just sang, “Onward Christian Soldiers”!!! Head for the hills!!!
jdpaz on March 1, 2007 at 12:41 PM
Progressives who ignore/excuse the imminent and explicit threat posed to the U.S. by Jihadism in order to obsess about Dr. Dobson, et. al. are demonstrably concerned with one thing – freedom to practice without stigma those behaviors historically condemned by our social moral order. Because that moral order has largely been informed by the Bible, the Christian ethic becomes the most significant “threat” to people who are fixated on further unfettering their own libertine lifestyle. This is the only explanation for the glaring incongruity of Hedge’s dire pronouncements against Christian leaders compared to his failure to recognize the active and massive menace of Islamist warriors.
The irony is if the true enemy he ignores is successful, Hedge and those likeminded will brutally discover what authentic oppression feels like. All those cherished behaviors will attract the executioner’s sword. For proof that this would be their fate, all they must do is cast their gaze across a few international borders to observe the long blades and AK’s already doing Allah’s work.
The Ritz on March 1, 2007 at 12:47 PM
Hedges said something the other day on Democracy Now! where he promised that his way of protesting some Bush policy (I forget which policy — Iraq, defending Christianity, whatever — I’ll try to track it down) will be to not pay his income taxes. Awesome. This will put him in prison. I plan to start a Send Chris Hedges to Prison Fund, or a Help Chris Hedges Not Pay His Income Taxes Fund.
Drum on March 1, 2007 at 12:55 PM
Here it is:
AMY GOODMAN: What will you do if the US attacks Iran?
CHRIS HEDGES: Well, I’m not going to pay my income taxes. I just am in such despair over the consequences of that war and the fact that there just really is no — seems to be no organized opposition. And I think that I have a kind of moral responsibility as someone who comes out of the Middle East and has, I mean, directly, you know, friends throughout the years that I spent there who would suffer tremendously from that. And I sort of — it may not change anything, and it may be sort of futile, but I think that at least when it’s over, I’ll have earned the right to ask for their forgiveness.
Drum on March 1, 2007 at 12:57 PM
New bumpersticker:
HELP CHRIS HEDGES GO TO PRISON: ATTACK IRAN
Drum on March 1, 2007 at 1:00 PM
CHRISTIANS! Oh, THE HORROR!
NRA4Freedom on March 1, 2007 at 1:01 PM
I think most people under some age(40? 30?) in this country have been public-schooled using the “everyone’s the same, all cultures are equal” mantra. Since it’s bad to discriminate (including simply to be able to ‘tell the difference between’), they literally cannot comprehend any difference between one person making a categorical statement like Grant’s (although I didn’t see any accompanying beheading threats) to hundreds making what sound to them like the same statement (”Well, they both say ‘dominate’…”) Never mind the beheadings, FGM’s, burkkafications, banning other religions, etc, that seem to accompany one side. That makes it possible for Rosie to be unchallenged, cheered and deemed a multicultural sage for espousing the “equal threat” idea.
eeyore on March 1, 2007 at 1:18 PM
Excellent video, Robert. Sometimes I try to explain to my moonbat friends that the jihadists actually are what they think the Christian fundies are. The blank looks I get really break my heart.
Farmer_Joe on March 1, 2007 at 1:20 PM
Where are all the Christian suicide bombers?
Where are the special taxes on non-Christians?
The Pat Robinson’s, Jerry Falwells, Al Sharptons, Jesse Jacksons, and Louis Farrakhan of the world, I could live without.
Kooks, all of them!
Kini on March 1, 2007 at 2:23 PM
your ignorance of “Christian reconstructionis” aside, you are no better than Chris Hedges.
jp on March 1, 2007 at 2:30 PM
Somebody should probably call Dean Esmay about this.
Hey … maybe if all you Evangelical Christians just quitcher gripin’ and starting blowing things up and randomly decapitating people … all the liberals would stop hating you, and instead try to understand you, and have a “dialogue.”
In fact, if you blow up enough stuff and kill enough people, sooner or later you’ll become the flavor of the month on college campuses, and people will wear t-shirts with your logo on it. Watch out, Che.
It’s all about marketing. And appealing to the
moronstarget audience.Just don’t go too far over the edge. You don’t want a visit from Sean Penn and the chubby Dixie Chick.
Professor Blather on March 1, 2007 at 2:58 PM
I get tired of saying this every week but GREAT JOB Mr Spencer! I look forward to the Jihad Watch every Thursday.
Farmer_Joe, make them watch Obsession, Radical Islam’s War Against the West. If that doesn’t open their eyes then give up on them.
VikingGoneWild on March 1, 2007 at 3:44 PM
Lets see… Fascism is a Socialist (mostly secular and militant liberal) construct.
Evangelical Christians are mostly religious and generally passive conservative.
Religious passive Conservatism = Secular militant Liberalism
Yep… makes perfect moonbat sense.
Lawrence on March 1, 2007 at 5:21 PM
“Kini,”
I don’t get it!
How are you mixing Pat Robinson and Jerry Falwell, who deal with Christianity and Christian views, Christian news, and education, and such, with Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Louis Farrakhan, all three of whom are race mongers, race baiters, race hustlers, racists, hate mongers, divisiveness perpetrators, and, in the case of Farrakhan, is not a Christian, and, in the case of Jackson and Sharpton, don’t behave like Christians.
William
William2006 on March 1, 2007 at 5:35 PM
I am just astonished today. I don’t know why so much today , more than other days, but I am.
Reality? Or am I living in a nightmare. Do people just bash Christianity and Christians for money? Or do somehow in their twisted minds ( maybe planted by twisted professors) do they really think that anyone can compare Christianity and Islam when it comes to killing people of other faiths, written orders to kill, acts of terror, even ‘killing gets you into paradise with 6 dozen virgins’ , etc?
How far out there does one have to be? How much hate does one have in their heart? If there is a satan, is this evil alive and plotting inside these lost souls/people?
shooter on March 1, 2007 at 5:42 PM
shooter on March 1, 2007 at 5:42 PM,
Regarding your talk about killing by orders of God, that is exactly what God did do, order killings, and those who disobeyed were in deep doo doo.
God told Abraham to Kill Isaac, his won son.
God told people to offer up their animals to him by killing them. That is no different from people making human sacrifices and offering sheep, goats, calves, etc., to the gods or to God, yet Christians claim that they are different when their own scripture actually includes those things.
The Prophet Samuel told Saul and his army to kill every man, women, child, and infant, as well as all their livestock, leaving no one and nothing left alive of the enemy. Saul did not obey and that is a bad thing!
Please, do NOT deny that Christianity IS build upon violence, for the sake of serving, honoring, and obeying God.
There are differences between Islam and Christianity. When we compare violence we see that Islam includes calls to violence against non-believers, and the Q’ran clearly orders Muslims to first invite infidels-non believers to convert, then to submit as Dihmmies and pay the jizya, if that does not work then to kill the infidels-non believers.
So Muslims are called to perpetrate violence on all non-believers, while Christians are not. However the Bible clearly does contain numerous examples of God wanted blood and death and actually ordered it.
William
William2006 on March 1, 2007 at 5:58 PM
>your ignorance of “Christian reconstructionis” aside, you are no better than Chris Hedges.
You’re right, jp, Gary North and Rousas Rushdoony didn’t mean what they said. It’s all sweetness and light and doing Jesus’s work.
Gimme a break.
Drum on March 1, 2007 at 6:19 PM
Here’s a good one for ya, jp:
“The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church’s public marks of the covenant–baptism and holy communion–must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel.” — Gary North
What am I not understanding about this?
Drum on March 1, 2007 at 6:27 PM
“So let us be blunt about it: we must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God.” — Gary North
Somethin’ I missed about this one, jp?
Drum on March 1, 2007 at 6:28 PM
“Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land – of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ. It is to reinstitute the authority of God’s Word as supreme over all judgments, over all legislation, over all declarations, constitutions, and confederations. True Christian political action seeks to rein the passions of men and curb the pattern of digression under God’s rule.” — George Grant
These are all Reconstructionist sentiments, jp. So what is it that I’m missing? Thank God for Christian orthodoxy and for 200 years of Enlightenment and romantic checks on nutty Christian heresies like Reconstructionism.
Drum on March 1, 2007 at 6:33 PM
Great Vent Robert Spencer! As usual to the point with accurate facts and keen insight.
I would really like to hear Robert Spencer do a piece about what the definition of a “Moderate” Muslim is.
omegaram on March 1, 2007 at 6:48 PM
Drum,
You made some cogent, hard hitting points in your posts above.
William
William2006 on March 1, 2007 at 7:04 PM
In my lifetime I have never seen an atheist derided for expressing their non-belief. As a Christian I’ve been told I was silly to believe the Bible, so I suppose I have been derided for expressing my beliefs. So if some atheist are derided for expressing their non-belief, that’s the price we pay for living in a free speech society and their grievance is not exclusive. Learn to love it, it’s called freedom. None of us should expect to express unpopular opinions without receiving rebuttal.
While the left constantly derides Christianity as intolerant, the opposite is true, Christianity is a wellspring of tolerance. American was indeed founded as a Christian nation and it still is a Christian nation. Every theism in the world can be found here and we all reside together in relative harmony. You can be an atheist, or any religion for that matter and live well in America. You don’t need to be concerned about a loud knock in the middle of the night and being imprisoned or killed for your particular belief.
That is not true where atheist are the majority and atheism has become the state’s religion. Where the state has become God, there is no room for competition. China is one example of this today, but there are many. And looking to history, we find this:
Hitler hated Christianity and did everything in his power to destroy it as the excerpt above clearly shows. Many Christians in Germany died trying to stop the Nazis and many Christians gave shelter to the Jews to hide them from the Nazis at the risk of their own lives. And it was a predominately Christian allied force that destroyed the Nazis. Yet Mr. Hedges says that Christians are Nazis ?
The left hates Christianity and there is nothing new about that, but if Mr. Hedges wants to destroy Christianity then he is the one like Hitler and he is the one that is like the Nazis.
Thank you Robert Spenser for that excellent presentation.
Maxx on March 1, 2007 at 8:12 PM
Another FIRST CLASS episode of Jihad Watch. Thanks Robert.
I was proud to be a Catholic when Pope John Paul II “ordered” all the priest here in the US who held elected public office to resign. That was great.
Zorro on March 1, 2007 at 8:48 PM
Christian reconstructionism, also called theonomy, is a Christian heresy popularized by North, Rushdoony, and the late Greg Bahnsen. It has very little traction in the Christian world and it’s been answered by many Christian scholars, one of whom is no less than Meredith G. Kline. As he put it, “theonomy is a misinterpetation of redemptive history on a massive scale.” It’s well outside Christian orthodoxy, and the American revision to the Westminster Confession (1786) removed the last vestiges of even the idea of Christendom.
Atheists, relax.
PRCalDude on March 1, 2007 at 10:08 PM
PRCalDude, thanks for the quote. Meredith G. Kline is a respected intellectual and theologian.
INC on March 1, 2007 at 10:31 PM
God help our Christian children, who will have to live amongst, and bring up their children, around all these Godless and God hating liberal whackos and their Godless goofy social policies.
NRA4Freedom on March 1, 2007 at 10:34 PM
Everybody go to KABC.com and listen to Al Rantel. There’s another border patrol agent talking about being prosecuted by Sutton.
PRCalDude on March 1, 2007 at 10:44 PM
Drum, you have no idea what they are actually talking about. your letting ‘moral relativism’ blind you from what they are really talking about and its in reality the complete 180 degree, antithesis of radical islam and sharia law.
jp on March 1, 2007 at 10:50 PM
jp,
Reconstructionism is heretical.
PRCalDude on March 1, 2007 at 11:10 PM
its practically liberatarian if you had a clue what it really is.
jp on March 1, 2007 at 11:27 PM
d. They do indeed believe in social salvation through ramrodding by the state. Christians are simply trying to get the ramrod away from them and melt it down.”
jp on March 1, 2007 at 11:37 PM
Ann Coulter goes to a reformed Presbyterian church, or did when she lived in NYC. Reedemer pca church.
jp on March 1, 2007 at 11:47 PM
jp,
Did not Christ fulfill the Law? Did God come down and make a covenant with the founding fathers of America? I’ve sat under theonomic preaching for two years. I’ve watched a pastor run out of the ministry because of his stance against it. It’s heretical and it’s a disservice to the Kingdom of God. CHRIST was the true Israel. He kept the Law. The gospel has now spread to all nations. Didn’t the writer of Hebrews develop the idea of the typology of the Old Testament figures and temple practices?
PRCalDude on March 1, 2007 at 11:49 PM
I was a member in the Southern California presbytery of the OPC, where Greg Bahsen preached. Don’t tell me I don’t know what reconstructionism is.
PRCalDude on March 1, 2007 at 11:53 PM
That’s a great find Maxx. Every once in awhile we get a loon in here that posts that the third reich was a conservative movement, and not a socialist, marxist style. That is just one more argument why the left is so dangerous.
right2bright on March 2, 2007 at 12:59 AM
Did I miss something in your post. You talk about Christians, but you leave out the New Testament. Aren’t Christians the followers of Christ? Didn’t Christ come in with a new order? How much death and destruction and killing did Jesus participate in or promote? I think your theology is missing something.
Let me see, what is it missing…
right2bright on March 2, 2007 at 1:08 AM
Addressed to me, William (William2006), from “right2bright” re my comment March 1, 2007, at 5:58 PM
right2bright,
Yes, you DID miss something.
Here is what you missed:
My comment, which you inquire about, was in response to the following:
I addressed this fact.
The Bible, and the Judeo-Christian faith does have examples of believers following God’s command to kill.
I addressed them in the body of my response above in my post marked William2006 on March 1, 2007 at 5:58 PM.
Bottom line, I clarified the differences between Islam and Christianity, but I did address the fact that the Christian bible does include examples of God telling people to kill others.
William
William2006 on March 2, 2007 at 4:03 AM
Exactly, except for Gary North (and he is latched onto his position because he is a Convent/Calvinist), Christian Reconstructionists do not call for a theocracy. While some may call for a secession so they can go their way and the rest can go their way, the fact is that the over-whelming majority of the US has Christianist values. If you listed value by value and asked people to accept or reject each value on merit, the majority would agree with the values of “Christianists”.
While I’m not in the South, I don’t care if they secede. The fact is that the constitution that they would write would be just like the CSA’s Constitution in the sense it improved in a few weaknesses yet in 90% of it looked like the Original Constitution and would run more like the Original Intent of the Founding Fathers.
If anything it would be a freer land than this country is presently.
Tim Burton on March 3, 2007 at 12:55 PM
Also, while many Christians do not consider the OT to be equal with the NT, the only place the act of war and how to wage it is really talked about is in OT. The NT does not condemn war, Paul who was chained to soldiers for years at a time never wrote once about how evil soldiers were, even though he spoke of sharing the Gospel.
Finally, wars as outlined were not against individuals, but societies that were a threat or were judged evil. Therefore war is a duty to destroy evil. It is God’s allowing of Natural Evil to end Moral Evil. It is not called upon Christians in society to destroy Moral Evil through Natural Evil, but it is governments duty to stop Moral Evil through the punishment of Natural Evil. This doesn’t mean that all infractions or Scripture should be horrendously punished, nor does this mean that society doesn’t allow sin, but sins that affect the corporate of society should be punished.
Example: Adultry is a corporate moral evil and with STDs and such is a corporate Natural Evil. If you are found cheating on your spouse you should lose everything, 95% or even 100% of your marriage’s assets should go to the faithful spouse. That is just.
Tim Burton on March 3, 2007 at 1:06 PM
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