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Talking with Iran, “normalizing” with North Korea Updated

posted at 10:05 am on February 28, 2007 by Bryan
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Bush administration supporters, that giant whooshing sound you hear may be a couple of rugs getting pulled out from under us.

Item 1: North Korea.

SEOUL — North Korea’s top nuclear negotiator was on his way to the United States yesterday for talks on issues that a State Department official said would include the first steps toward the normalization of diplomatic relations.
The trip, which coincides with the first high-level talks between North Korea and South Korea in more than four months, reflects the rapid easing of tensions with President Kim Jong-il’s regime since North Korea agreed this month to freeze its nuclear program in exchange for heavy fuel oil and other concessions.

It’s tough to know from the outside what to make of all the sudden moves on the Korea front in the past couple of weeks. An optimistic take would be that the Proliferation Security Initiative and related moves to box in Pyongyang along with patient diplomacy among the other nations in the six party talks have succeeded to the point that the North Koreans have become more pliable. Not necessarily more trustworthy, but at least more pliable. A pessimistic take would be that the Bush administration is tired of the fight and has more or less capitulated on the international crisis front, perhaps to buy some goodwill with a Democrat congress that’s gearing up to turn the next two years into a subpoena blizzard and to take one member of the axis of evil out of the negative headlines for a while. Time will tell which is closer to the truth. But this is interesting:

The breakthrough was also preceded by negotiations between North Korea and the U.S. Treasury Department, which in September 2005 successfully pressured a bank in Macao to freeze $24 million of Pyongyang’s overseas holdings.
“Changes are being made to lift the sanctions in the Office of Foreign Assets Control,” a source familiar with the U.S. financial community told The Washington Times yesterday. The Office of Foreign Assets Control is tasked with tracking the assets of the United States’ enemies.
“Officials there are saying, ‘If you look at our documents, North Korea, Iran and Cuba were the enemies of the United States,’ ” the source said. ” ‘Going forward, we are looking at Iran and Cuba.’ “

North Korea is cash starved, to the point that $24 million, chump change to the average US state government, does seem to have made them more eager to talk. China growled after the dud nuclear test as well, and China is the source of most of North Korea’s economy. And if you add in the potential effectiveness of the PSI, which was built to halt North Korea’s major export business–weapons–it is possible that the North Koreans are doing most of the conceeding. As I said, time will tell.

On to Item 2: Iran.

Notice that the story above still listed Iran as an enemy of the US. That makes a great deal of sense for many reasons, not least of which is Iran’s meddling with the insurgency and Shia militias in Iraq. So what to make of this?

President George Bush signalled a dramatic shift in his Middle East policy last night by agreeing to discuss the future of Iraq with Iran and Syria.

His move comes despite his belief that the two countries are fuelling the insurgency that has led Iraq into civil war.

President Bush, President George Bush signalled a dramatic shift in his Middle East policy last night by agreeing to discuss the future of Iraq with Iran and Syria
America last night held open the possibility of one-to-one talks with Iranian ministers

The US will attend a conference in Baghdad next month to discuss the “stabilisation” of Iraq with its six neighbours, including Iran which Mr Bush once described as part of an “axis of evil”.

A second meeting is due to be held in April and the Americans last night held open the possibility of one-to-one talks with Iranian ministers, which the US has previously refused to do unless Teheran suspended its uranium enrichment programme.

The press like to halt “dramatic shifts” in Bush thinking that turn out to be less dramatic than initially reported, so skepticism is warranted. And there are a few things worth noting here. First, Iraq is organizing the meeting and it invited Iran and Syria. We want Iraq to be sovereign, we’re going to have to live with it doing things we don’t like once in a while. Second, there may or may not be bilateral talks between the US and Iran at this meeting–that’s not a done deal. Third, the US may–I said may–take the opportunity to confront Iran with evidence of its involvement in Iraq at this meeting, right in front of all of the other participants. That would a smackdown worthy of the name, if it happens.

But again, we’re confronted another set of possibilities that don’t bode well. The Bush administration has been notoriously slow to acknowledge that the Iranians have been arming and training the various bad actors in Iraq. When it finally has acknowledged this, the left has reacted with predictable scorn–at the administration for saying anything, not at Iran for playing a part in killing US troops on Iraqi battlefields. And we’re confronted both by the president’s weak position in Washington and in public opinion, and the anemic war morale on the homefront. Put those factors together and this Iran move looks like it could be a capitulation both to the Democrats and to one of the two surviving members of the axis of evil. Add in the “normalization” going on with the other member as noted above, and well, it just feels like a couple of rugs have just been yanked from the floor.

Time will tell. I lean toward the pessimistic side on both stories but I’ll withhold my own judgement for now, and wait to see where things go over the next few months.

Update: Frank Gaffney is pessimistic.

Update: Fodder for optimists:

The lead U.S. envoy in nuclear talks with North Korea told lawmakers Wednesday that U.S. financial restrictions connected with North Korean money laundering and counterfeiting had forced banks around the world to question their business dealings with Kim Jong Il’s government.

Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill said the measures, which the United States is working to resolve as part of a recent disarmament agreement with Pyongyang, had hurt the communist government by hindering its access to the international financial system.

Hill spoke as the State Department announced that he will meet with his negotiating counterpart, North Korean Vice Foreign Minister Kim Kye Gwan, in New York on March 5-6 to discuss first steps toward establishing normal ties after decades of hostility that followed the 1950-53 Korean War.

It’s possible that the banking restrictions together with PSI have brought the North Koreans to a point painful enough to make them pliable. I’m not sold on that, but it was the point of both activities. If that’s the case, when will the Democrats acknowledge that Bush’s approach has borne fruit? Right after pigs break Mach 5 near the edge of space, is my guess.


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We blinked first – and the mouse(s) that roared emerged victorious yet again.

Time will indeed tell – I only hope that it is not too late in coming.

Emmett J. on February 28, 2007 at 10:19 AM

I have been a supporter on the Presidents war on Terrorism since the beginning. He is starting to remind me of my ex-wife – just a series of disappointments.

Dr. Gecko on February 28, 2007 at 10:19 AM

Infusion of optimism:

During my morning commute this morning, I listened to another installment of Hugh Hewitt’s interview with author and strategist Thomas P.M. Barnett, about his book, The Pentagon’s New Map. He puts, into beautiful perspective, history, the global economy, the “Gap”, and the need for “horizontal thinking.”

I recommend this audio series to my friends here on Hot Air. Freshly influenced by Barnett’s ideas, the news in this post does not seem as pessimistic as it appears on the face of it.

Links to the audio on his blog, thomaspmbarnett.com/weblog or townhall.com (search under the Talk Radio Online link).

RushBaby on February 28, 2007 at 10:29 AM

As I have said before…

In the last election Bush lost more than the Congress… he lost his Mojo…

Romeo13 on February 28, 2007 at 11:17 AM

Given that our military options are limited in both cases, I don’t see much problem with talking to them. I’d rather see us bomb them into the Stone Age (not a great change in NK), but there it is.

old_dawg on February 28, 2007 at 11:20 AM

The problem is that there is no clear thinking about what specifically is to be said and what specifically can be accomplished by such “talks” and that “talking” becomes a substitute for necessary tough actions with respect to Iran and Syria.

The leftist mainstream media does not want to recognize the fact of heavy Iranian involvement in indermining Iraq’s democratically elected government and Syria’s role in undermining Lebanon’s democratically elected government. That would suggest that such “talks” are not a good idea. But the fact is that Iran and Syria have those involvements, and any “talks” have to occur in the context of that reality. What, then, can such “talks” accomplish? Surely, no one thinks that we can sit at a conference table and ask the Iranians “pretty please, stop sending weapons into Iraq” and Iran will agree.

It may be that there is less than what meets the eye here. It was Iraq who invited its neighbors to “talks,” and we have to respect Itaq’s sovereign wishes to have “talks.” President Bush may be giving some latitude to Condi Rice to see what she can do. But in the end, “talks” are not going to accomplish anything meaningful unless somehow “talks” cause Iran and Syria to pursue other courses of action than they have been. I don’t think that “talks” can accomplish that.

Phil Byler on February 28, 2007 at 11:34 AM

It took enough time for the US to realize the Norker weak spot- cash. The country is starving, and the only real trade from North Korea is in weapons. By locking up the accounts, the US is hitting North Korea where it hurts.

The best part about it is the limited cost and the lesson we learned. Just pick up the phone, call Bank X in a banking territory, and offer $1 million over the cash you want to freeze as a guarantor. That way there’s no loss to the bank and you can apply pressure to North Korea or other cash-starved country.

Unfortunately, for Iran, it’s not that easy. But watch the talks. I don’t think we’ll see a “smackdown”, nor do I think we’ll see anything really from the US in the way of talking to Iran or Syria. This is Iraq’s show, and we want to stand side-by-side with the fledgling democracy. It’s also a signal that we’re not thinking of attacking Iran anytime soon, regardless of what the Times of London says.

Nethicus on February 28, 2007 at 12:13 PM

“Frank Gaffney is pessimistic…” Yea, and the sun rose in the east this morning.

I listened to the Barnett interview mentioned by RushBaby at 10:29, as I have the other 7 in the series. I agree with Barnett’s optimism for the possibilities in the region. But what we have is Barnett’s long-term optimism against Gaffney’s short term pessimism. And I think both are completely valid arguments. The question (oversimplified) is do we arrive at Barnett’s mostly-connected region before the nukes go off?

Consistent with my nick, I don’t think the signs are that positive. I’d like to think with the situations Bryan describes above that there are some “horizontal-thinking” players involved, with the long-terms interests of America (and the free world in general) in mind. I’m afraid, though, that it is just as likely that what we are witnessing are decisions based as much as anything else on simple, ground-down political fatigue in the “long hard slog” to 2008.

eeyore on February 28, 2007 at 12:44 PM

Ugh. While I stiil support our Commander in Chief in theory, this is really shaking the foundation of the WoT. What happened to not negotiating with members of the Axis of Evil or countries who harbor terrorists?

They continually call our bluff and we continue looking weak. It’s time to hold a seance for Gen. Patton. No wonder everyone hates Cheney, he’s the only person with a semblance of gumballs in our government at this point.

Utterly disappointed. Again. (/rant off)

NTWR on February 28, 2007 at 1:24 PM

On both fronts, after the talks, Bush can then come back in 8 to 12 months and say “we tried that, we did that”, if and when, the NOKO’s and the Iranians don’t comply. ( it will take much longer for the NOKO’s to break out, they do need the dough)Then Bush can get serious with the ’stop it or else’ talk and it will be easier for congress to back him up….then, as long as we have a carrier group in the neighborhood.
–Pessimistic? How can you trust Iran, ever again? And the NOKO’s…not yet, not for a long, long time.
Think about it, if a business associate of yours acted the same as either leader/country has recently (say back to 1979), would you personally do business with that type person? Loan them money perhaps?

shooter on February 28, 2007 at 1:24 PM

I suppose if we do need to get another AUMF from Congress (I doubt we will make the mistake of asking the UN for another mother-may-I) it would help to be able to say “look, we did talk to them, and we’ve done everything we can to prevent war, but we’ve no choice”.

see-dubya on February 28, 2007 at 2:09 PM

see-dubya – I think the only circumstance under which this administration would ever get another AUMF from this Congress is if there has already been, as promised, a “single blinding flash of light” over the horizon.

eeyore on February 28, 2007 at 2:30 PM

Where can I buy some burkas for my wives?

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on February 28, 2007 at 2:32 PM

What’s the matter with you people?

You folks are obsessing over MEDIA REPORTS?

Do you take what the media writes at face value? I don’t. Everything you read in the papers, watch on TV in a newscast is AGENDA DRIVEN JOURNALISM.

Haven’t you learned this by now?

It is quite possible that your fears will come true.

It is also possible (likely even) that what you think has little connection to reality, and that your perceptions of motivation are 180 degrees off course.

It is best to wait and see what develops before you start panicking.

georgej on February 28, 2007 at 3:43 PM

Actually georgej, the agenda-driven people I’ve been listening to have been Nancy Pelosi, John Murtha, Harry Reid, Hillary Clinton and others who have somewhat more influence on the course of things than Keith Olbermann [although Keith would be very unhappy to hear that].

eeyore on February 28, 2007 at 5:31 PM

I believe the movement with the NorKs is mostly China’s doing.

The movement with Iran might be due to a belief that engagement now might pay off later in the post-Ahmadinejad era. Or maybe better put, we might be dealing with people in those talks who have channels directly to the Grand Poobah (or Supreme Leader or whatever that Ayatollah is called) and if a fair deal is proposed that Dinner Jacket shoots down, then it could hasten the political demise of Ahmadinejad. In other words, there is more potential for up side than down. Worst case nothing changes as a result of the talks so there is really little downside potential from participating in them.

crosspatch on February 28, 2007 at 7:19 PM

I’ve seen this movie; its a rerun from the 1970’s.
The villian gets justice, and the heroine gets killed.

rockhauler on February 28, 2007 at 9:39 PM

I really don’t think we are going to make an agreement just for the sake of making an agreement. It might also be an opportunity for us to lay out some hard evidence that we have of what they have been doing and to give them some specific consequences if they don’t knock it off. Don’t go reading a whole lot into any meeting itself unless you happen to know some specifics of what the agenda is going to be. I see a lot of speculation but nothing based on any hard facts.

crosspatch on February 28, 2007 at 11:23 PM

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