Titanic director aims to sink Christianity

posted at 6:46 pm on February 25, 2007 by Bryan

Titanic ego, titanic project. Of which I’m very skeptical.

In a new documentary, Producer [James] Cameron and his director, Simcha Jacobovici, make the starting claim that Jesus wasn’t resurrected –the cornerstone of Christian faith– and that his burial cave was discovered near Jerusalem. And, get this, Jesus sired a son with Mary Magdelene.

No, it’s not a re-make of “The Da Vinci Codes’. It’s supposed to be true.

Well, Da Vinci author Dan Brown has made truth (or truthy) claims about his 2000-year-old conspiracy theory too. And it’s a pile of bunk.

Let’s go back 27 years, when Israeli construction workers were gouging out the foundations for a new building in the industrial park in the Talpiyot, a Jerusalem suburb. of Jerusalem. The earth gave way, revealing a 2,000 year old cave with 10 stone caskets. Archologists were summoned, and the stone caskets carted away for examination. It took 20 years for experts to decipher the names on the ten tombs. They were: Jesua, son of Joseph, Mary, Mary, Mathew, Jofa and Judah, son of Jesua.

Israel’s prominent archeologist Professor Amos Kloner didn’t associate the crypt with the New Testament Jesus. His father, after all, was a humble carpenter who couldn’t afford a luxury crypt for his family. And all were common Jewish names.

There was also this little inconvenience that a few miles away, in the old city of Jerusalem, Christians for centuries had been worshipping the empty tomb of Christ at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Christ’s resurrection, after all, is the main foundation of the faith, proof that a boy born to a carpenter’s wife in a manger is the Son of God.

I’ll quibble with the part about Christians “worshipping” the empty tomb. Anyone doing that is running off the rails into idolatry. Nevertheless, for Cameron there’s another inconvenient truth: The Romans tried their best to quash Christianity in its early days. Being able to produce a body that was indisputably that of the man they had crucified, and using his own followers or even his own mother to make a positive ID, would surely have done the job, if the body was available. Dontcha think the Romans would have latched on to this tomb of Cameron’s back then, if it was so easily proven to be the tomb that contained the corpse of Christ? Christ was famous in his day; that fame earned him the ire of the authorities who had him tried and executed. All of the apostles but Judas, eyewitnesses to the crucifixion and/or events that followed, went to their deaths as martyrs claiming the resurrection as truth. It makes very little sense that the Romans would have just allowed the resurrection to go unchallenged if they had a ready way to challenge it.

And it’s not as though the apostles were expecting a resurrection that they would have to defend. They weren’t. The crucifixion crushed their spirits, and most of them went into hiding as Christ hung alone on the cross. The Gospels record that the apostles were as mystified as everyone else was as to what had become of Christ’s body. It took them a while to get it. Once they did, they took their fight all the way to bitter (earthly) ends. Why would they do that if, in reality, Jesus had simply been buried along with the rest of his family and stayed put in the grave and they all knew this to be the case? To believe in Cameron’s version of events, you have to believe that everything, and I do mean everything, that we know about the early church years is completely false. But the evidence says that that’s not the case, and you don’t have to be a Christian to accept that the apostles were real people who actually believed what they said about Christ, to the point of brutal deaths as criminals. In short, you can believe Cameron if you want, but believing in his version of events seems at this point to be more a leap of faith than reason.

Then there’s this, which on its face makes no sense.

But film-makers Cameron and Jacobovici claim to have amassed evidence through DNA tests, archeological evidence and Biblical studies, that the 10 coffins belong to Jesus and his family.

DNA? To whom is the DNA from these long dead bones being compared? To each other? Fine, they’re a family. That makes sense, given that they’re buried in the same tomb. That doesn’t make them The Family, though, even with the names since they were common names at the time. For that matter, in certain parts of the world they’re common enough names now. If they’re comparing the DNA to what appears to be blood extracted from the Shroud of Turin, well, that would be…interesting. The Shroud’s authenticity isn’t exactly an established fact, though, making such a DNA comparison a bit specious, to say the least (yes, I know about the carbon-dating 14th century business. That’s not ironclad either. Very little about the Shroud has been established as fact, other than that the cloth originates in the Middle East, and that’s based on pollen samples. Anyway.). I suppose they could claim to have used the image of Edessa, but that’s even more specious than using the Shroud. Using either the image or the Shroud, which may in fact be one and the same, amounts to taking a leap of faith in their authenticity to disprove the resurrection, belief in which is itself an act of faith. Faith in this case would be the evidence of things seen but highly disputed, on the word of a Hollywood showman against 2000 years of scholarship and research and over a century of Shroud research that hasn’t settled its identity one way or the other. It would be ironic, to say the least, if the Shroud pops up as Cameron’s DNA ace in the hole. The phrase “house of cards” comes to mind.

So it’s hard without seeing the show to understand how DNA is relevant at all. It’s not as though you’ll get a reading that says “Jesus of Nazareth, d. 33 AD.” DNA is useful for comparisons and matches, not as a stand-alone method of identification. It almost seems as though Cameron’s just throwing it out there to make his documentary sound much more solid than it could possibly be. It’s part of the hype machine, in other words.

Cameron’s project looks like pseudoscience dressed up to swing away at the foundation of Christianity. Let’s see him try anything similar with the religion of peace. And then we might see just how fast he sinks into hiding.

More: Texas Rainmaker weighs in.

Update: Oh come on. They’re dragging the so-called James ossuary into this too, even though it blows up their timeline.


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I guess I just don’t get that shook up at any story about finding earthly remains of Jesus. He lived an earthly existence and it was always my interpatation of the life of Jesus that once he was resurrected he was more a, excuse the phrase, ghostly presence and once he acended to heaven went in this form. Sorry even if you could definetly that some remains were those of Jesus I would only request that you treat them with the utmost reverance.
You know like you are required to do whenn you hold a Koran unless you are Muslim protesting against Israel and the US.

LakeRuins on February 25, 2007 at 7:00 PM

20 years to translate the names Mary, Matthew and Judah.

Yeah, then producer Mary Mapes revealed she received the translation in an envelope while she was at a rodeo. Expert typographers confirmed that the fonts used on the crypt were not from Microsoft. Mapes said that they knew that Jesua was really an alias for Jesus because his under the name was carved 0 A.D – 33 A. D.

pedestrian on February 25, 2007 at 7:04 PM

I guess I just don’t get that shook up at any story about finding earthly remains of Jesus. He lived an earthly existence and it was always my interpatation of the life of Jesus that once he was resurrected he was more a, excuse the phrase, ghostly presence and once he acended to heaven went in this form. Sorry even if you could definetly that some remains were those of Jesus I would only request that you treat them with the utmost reverance.
You know like you are required to do whenn you hold a Koran unless you are Muslim protesting against Israel and the US.

LakeRuins on February 25, 2007 at 7:00 PM

No. His resurrected body was the same as the one he died in.

PRCalDude on February 25, 2007 at 7:08 PM

Another attempt to “disprove” Christianity.

Cameron–the Jesus Terminator.

elpresidente on February 25, 2007 at 7:11 PM

Another attempt to “disprove” Christianity.

Cameron–the Jesus Terminator.

The Christinator!

robblefarian on February 25, 2007 at 7:14 PM

Do you reckon he’ll be forced into exile a la Rushdie was for daring to write ANYTHING about islam?

SouthernGent on February 25, 2007 at 7:14 PM

His father, after all, was a humble carpenter who couldn’t afford a luxury crypt for his family. And all were common Jewish names.

I think these are money observations right here. I suppose it’s easier to disprove Christianity than to prove why Titanic should have won Best Picture against Good Will Hunting, LA Confidential and As Good As It Gets

wryteacher on February 25, 2007 at 7:15 PM

DNA samples prove that Cameron descended from the apes. and when I say descended, I mean a mighty long ways.

Oilpatcher on February 25, 2007 at 7:16 PM

Anything goes in Follywood for a buck.

Wade on February 25, 2007 at 7:18 PM

This Cameron guy pretty much went off his chum when he won that Academy Award for Best Picture and did that “I’m the king of the world!” thingie…
I think he thought he was the King of the World, now he’s trying to squash any competition…
I’ll have what he’s smokin’.
Betcha some clever A-rabs charged him *the earth* for these archeological digs, too!
Whatta chump.

Jen the Neocon on February 25, 2007 at 7:28 PM

More tripe in line with the Da Vinci Code. Glad Hollywood spends so much time addressing the important issues of the day. A club unto themselves – why you’ll see the Oscars watched in record low numbers – again.

warriorlawyer on February 25, 2007 at 7:32 PM

Reportedly, according to the influence of modern sectarians over Jewish law, an Orthodox sect was given the bones for “reburial”, leaving only small quantities of bone fragments from two of the ossuaries for testing.

No word whether this shatters the provenance, or whether it is a tightly managed practice. Or whether it is a decision that might be overturned.

Anil Petra on February 25, 2007 at 7:43 PM

Cameron is a narcissist, “the king of the world”. It’s not suprising to me that Christianity offends his ego.

aengus on February 25, 2007 at 7:46 PM

make the starting claim that Jesus wasn’t resurrected –the cornerstone of Christian faith–

Hey, Mr. Cameron. This isn’t new. This particular story has been tried a couple times, and it always fails. If you really want to make another great movie, why not start with something a bit more original.

Miralces are just that. This resurrection is not something that requires physical proof or dis-proof, trying to do so just makes you look stupid.

Lawrence on February 25, 2007 at 7:50 PM

Ron Howard said, after seeing the commercial success of The Passion of the Christ, that Hollywood should look into making religious movies because there is obviously a market for them. So he made The Da Vinci Code. This is just like their patriotism and support of the troops. It sounds great in a sound bite, but . . . .

Cameron’s DNA evidence must be a real doozie. We have no verified living relatives of Christ. So, what’s he going to prove? That those in the tombs are Jewish? That they’re ancient? That they’re related to each other?

cmay on February 25, 2007 at 7:53 PM

but believing in his version of events seems at this point to be more a leap of faith than reason.

Titanic was basically a sermon from cameron on his philosophy of existentialism

jp on February 25, 2007 at 8:00 PM

Another option, though again, a theologically complicated one.

see-dubya on February 25, 2007 at 8:08 PM

The lengths lefties won’t go to demean Christianity. If only they put half as much effort into understanding the reality of Islam.

William Teach on February 25, 2007 at 8:40 PM

They don’t mention any tests on the bones to see if they show signs of a crucifixion? ..and what if the DNA on Jesus and Joseph show signs of matching? I have a feeling that this story has more holes in it than the Titanic.

jjjen on February 25, 2007 at 8:52 PM

They don’t mention any tests on the bones to see if they show signs of a crucifixion? ..and what if the DNA on Jesus and Joseph show signs of matching? I have a feeling that this story has more holes in it than the Titanic.

jjjen on February 25, 2007 at 8:52 PM

see-dubya, I’m with you, but who wants to go there? It’s like going through the motions when the initial justification was never there. I wish as much effort went into keeping the birds from pooping on my truck. My faith is fine, and my truck is dirty.

Ixnay on February 25, 2007 at 8:53 PM

*God, please make James Cameron endorse Barack Obama*

Amen.

Theworldisnotenough on February 25, 2007 at 9:04 PM

*God, please make James Cameron endorse Barack Obama*

Amen.

Theworldisnotenough

I’m busy making Al Gore think he’s smart and trying to get the devil out of the leader of Iran’s head. Don’t bother me.
-G-D

Defector01 on February 25, 2007 at 9:13 PM

Bryan:

Thanks once again for your astute rebuttal. If it only takes a James Cameron to sink Christianity our faith would have been dead a thousand plus years ago! Far more ruthless and powerful men than he have shattered all their weapons on The Rock.

I get cracked up by all the skeptics who refuse to believe an Everest of evidence that the Bible is historically correct and unerroded by time, yet the moment a crock like Da Vince Code, or The Gospel of Thomas, or now “the tomb of Jesus” is “discovered” they jump all over it as the gospel truth – absolute proof that Everest doesn’t exist. Their highly selected, paper thin, cobbled-together proof exposes their ulterior motive and nothing else!

Bryan, it’ll be great seeing you on the day every knee bows, and every skeptic mouth is stopped!

The Ritz on February 25, 2007 at 9:25 PM

Jesua, son of Joseph, Mary, Mary, Mathew, Jofa and Judah, son of Jesua

Yeah, I read the article on
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17328478/site/newsweek/
and it had “… the names that Jacobovici found so powerful: Jesus, son of Joseph; Maria; Mariamene; Matthew; Judas, son of Jesus; and Jose, a diminutive of Joseph.”

Anyone who tries to say that a man crucified by the Romans circa 33 AD or so might even have a chance of continuing to live, much less have children, has no clue. Researchers, indeed. /sarcasm off

The key is in the subtitle: “A book and movie allege …”. Smells like something along the lines of “any publicity is good publicity” or so.

Let’s see him try anything similar with the religion of peace. And then we might see just how fast he sinks into hiding.

Exactly. The “religion of peace piece(s)”.

IrishEyes on February 25, 2007 at 9:29 PM

…they know not what they do…

Zorro on February 25, 2007 at 9:29 PM

Satan is hard at work in these Last Days.
James Cameron, just one of his minions.

abinitioadinfinitum on February 25, 2007 at 9:33 PM

Bryan, it’ll be great seeing you on the day every knee bows, and every skeptic mouth is stopped!

Ditto. I’ve got my reservation; ticket purchased by the real king of the world; in fact, the King of Kings.

IrishEyes on February 25, 2007 at 9:34 PM

The only way anyone is EVER going to find Christ’s body is by raiding God’s Closet when God is off being God and has to hang his “Jesus” suit on a hanger.

I wonder if he uses wire hangers?

No… wire… hangers!!!!

csdeven on February 25, 2007 at 9:40 PM

DNA? To whom is the DNA from these long dead bones being compared?


Hmmmmm.

B Moe on February 25, 2007 at 9:43 PM

It took 20 years for experts to decipher the names on the ten tombs.

20 years? It only took 7 months(Nov 2002-June2003) for the Israeli Antiquities Authority to conclude that the inscription on the Saint James ossuary was a fake.Cameron really should read more to get his fake”ducks” in a row.

spazzmomma on February 25, 2007 at 9:59 PM

B Moe:

Classic.

see-dubya on February 25, 2007 at 10:00 PM

csdeven on February 25, 2007 at 9:40 PM

not funny

Maxx on February 25, 2007 at 10:01 PM

Two things popped into my mind after reading this.

-Geraldo opening Al Capone’s vault.

-Wouldn’t it be great if Cameron’s face melted of a la Raiders of the Lost Ark?

Bill C on February 25, 2007 at 10:01 PM

Just another Hollywierd show to down Christians ,however it will NOT work. Cameron is a chump and will wet his pants plus when the final day comesMocking a religion is not comedy or political but it seems a lot of the lefty’s want to bash christians but they would even dare make a cartoon about a child molesting Muslim.

bones47 on February 25, 2007 at 10:04 PM

I’m still waiting for the “documentary” showing how the liberal democrats are traitors to their Country, how they aided the enemies of their Country, and how their doing so led to the United States losing it’s second war for the freedom of those oppressed by tyrants.

Oh wait, THAT’S the “documentary” that people will be watching in the future…

NRA4Freedom on February 25, 2007 at 10:10 PM

Maxx on February 25, 2007 at 10:01 PM

Sure it is. You just don’t get the context.

csdeven on February 25, 2007 at 10:13 PM

Didn’t this idiot make the Terminator?

bloggless on February 25, 2007 at 10:27 PM

Thanks once again for your astute rebuttal. If it only takes a James Cameron to sink Christianity our faith would have been dead a thousand plus years ago! Far more ruthless and powerful men than he have shattered all their weapons on The Rock The Ritz on February 25, 2007 at 9:25 PM

I think you make a very good point. Its sad to think how many people will never know the Lord because they believe this movie as being fact.

sonnyspats1 on February 25, 2007 at 10:29 PM

Matt 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

I guess Cameron has decided what he is.

csdeven on February 25, 2007 at 10:34 PM

Good write-up, Bryan. You handled all the issues of significance that blow holes in this bit of latter-day stupidity.

Cameron’s DNA evidence must be a real doozie. We have no verified living relatives of Christ. So, what’s he going to prove? That those in the tombs are Jewish? That they’re ancient? That they’re related to each other?

Any person’s blood, post-conception, is determined by their father’s blood, not their mother’s, which is why a blood test can determine paternity so much easier than maternity. Jesus is no exception, and that is part of what qualifies Him as the Redeemer of man’s sin. Since He has no earthly father, He does not share in the cursed blood passed down from Adam. That and His sinless life make Him the “spotless Lamb”, who’s blood covers all sins.

The Bible has already dealt with Cameron’s foolishness. The leaders of the Jews begged Pilot for a Roman guard to protect the tomb of Joseph of Arimathaea, wherein Christ was buried. They did this precisely because they had heard Jesus’ words, and expected His followers to try and steal the body to claim He had risen.

Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again. Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first. Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can. So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.

Matthew 27:62-66

The next passage follows the Resurrection, and is about the guards fearing for their lives at having failed in their duty:

11Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done. And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers, Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept. And if this come to the governor’s ears, we will persuade him, and secure you. So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.

Matthew 28:11-15

(If a Roman guard admitted to sleeping on watch, he wouldn’t have been paid “large money”, he would have been executed. Little has changed under the sun. Today we bribe drug dealers and prosecute civil servants in order to hide governmental wrongdoing.)

The book of Matthew was completed well before the end of the 1st century. If there had been proof that Jesus’ remains were available to be seen and found in those days, it would have been used to debunk the Gospels before they became the foundation of a worldwide faith.

Freelancer on February 25, 2007 at 10:36 PM

It took 20 years for experts to decipher the names on the ten tombs.

20 years? It only took 7 months(Nov 2002-June2003) for the Israeli Antiquities Authority to conclude that the inscription on the Saint James ossuary was a fake.Cameron really should read more to get his fake”ducks” in a row.

spazzmomma on February 25, 2007 at 9:59 PM

This new find is the exact same fraud.

That one was uncovered in 1980, this one 27 years ago.
That link shows pictures of the inscription where you can see (middle of the page) that the inscription “brother of Joshua” was added in a much cruder script than the “Jacob son of Joseph.”

pedestrian on February 25, 2007 at 10:38 PM

Freelancer on February 25, 2007 at 10:36 PM

Nice references.

csdeven on February 25, 2007 at 10:42 PM

Freelancer on February 25, 2007 at 10:36 PM

Well said.

Better men than James Cameron have tried and failed to prove Jesus to be a fraud.

I would imagine there are going to be quite a few surprised faces at Judgment.

.

GT on February 25, 2007 at 10:47 PM

I posted this on my blog, but it bears repeating–

There’s a reenactment of Jesus on Peter’s boat as they’re heading out for fishing. Jesus is at the bow, standing, arms out, shouting, ‘I’m the King of the Jews!

Nethicus on February 25, 2007 at 10:52 PM

Nethicus on February 25, 2007 at 10:52 PM

hahahaha!

csdeven on February 25, 2007 at 10:59 PM

Hmmmm.

Maybe Cameron compared the bones’ DNA to his own. Its well known around Hollywood that Cameron considers himself to be a diety.

Labamigo on February 25, 2007 at 10:59 PM

Don’t forget . . . not only would the Romans have been super pleased to have evidence which disputed the divinity of Jesus, so also would the Jews. Think of it, would not the Jews have left no stone unturned to have evidence that they were NOT complicit after all in the death of the Son of God?

Labamigo on February 25, 2007 at 11:05 PM

Heh. Ah, poor Cameron–I want to see your face when you meet Christ. :D I agree, the evidences for Christ’s resurrection, etc are pretty high. The Jews, if nothing else, would have done as much as they could to prove it wrong.

And Nero would have loved it as well, if he could have just killed off the Christians by producing a body.

Vanceone on February 25, 2007 at 11:15 PM

Hahahahahahahahahahaha-aaack%^cough(*&^puhtewwy!

How many morons does it take to ram their heads up their collective

but

I digress.

Shhh.

Listen.

Can you hear it? That! The cacophany of fatwas issued against mr. cameron & co coupled with all those violent, rabid christians screaming ‘behead those who insult Jesus!’ ‘behead those who insult Jesus!’

These hollywood types – what a bunch of limp ick gutless wonders. I need a shower and some sleep.

locomotivebreath1901 on February 25, 2007 at 11:30 PM

Titanic director aims to sink Christianity

Well someone thinks a lot of himself. A feat centuries of tyrants, atheists, and even Satan himself could not accomplish. I’d wish him luck but it all seems so pointless.

thedecider on February 25, 2007 at 11:35 PM

Foolish, foolish man.

“…I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
(Matt 16:18)

infidel4life on February 25, 2007 at 11:52 PM

I know Simcha, and basically he’s a talented filmaker, very religious, and very passionate about everything he does, which means he has a tendency to get suck into these kinds of things. Last thing I saw of his was this piece on proving the Exodus–how all the miracles associated with it were actually the product of a massive volcanic eruption in Italy, etc. I think they ran it on the discovery channel. It was stunning piece of filmaking, and somewhat entertaining, although thelogically puzzling. On the one hand, for a religious guy like Simcha, proving that the plagues, the splitting of the Sea of Reeds actually did happen ought to be a good thing. On the other hand, proving that it wasn’t the hand of G-d, but a volcanic eruption that was behind it all–maybe not so good. As a religious Jew, I’m really uncomfortable with him making this film. When I can go on a web-site that has a ton of scanned pages of Talmud (useful and hard to find), only to find out that it is a virulently anti-Semitic site seeking to prove that the Talmud is a repository of every perversion, and superstition, and more importantly, a source for all kinds of vicious anti-Christian propaganda, I’m not happy that a religious Jew is associated with a project like this. Simcha is a really sweet guy, and very talented, but I think that if it has to be made, it is a film for a Christian to make. He’s really spitting into the wind.

smellthecoffee on February 26, 2007 at 12:13 AM

My wife and I saw “Amazing Grace” tonight. A good movie, not a great movie. But, a terrific story about William Wilberforce’s drive to end slave trading in England. His Christian ethic was mentioned but not overly so. It was nice to see a movie where Christians and Christian values are upheld as right and heroic. Of course this was not a Hollywood film.

Mallard T. Drake on February 26, 2007 at 12:50 AM

Wait, I’ve got it. Cameron’s found the Spear of Longinus and sent it off to the FBI crime lab for comparison.

see-dubya on February 26, 2007 at 3:05 AM

Christians are not the only group persecuted, nor have they been the only group persecuted.

Thanks to Islam, Hindus, Sikhs, Jews, Jains, Buddhists, Christians, Ba’hais, Zoroastrians, and so on, have been persecuted, butchered, and coerced to convert to “the Religion of Peace.”

Christians have persecuted so-called “Cult members” who had a slightly different belief system than the Christians persecuting them had, even if those so-called “Cult members” actually do believe that Jesus is the Lord.

Christians persecute other Christians. It is absurd, but that is what happens when people follow a religion after the Lord is no longer among us in human form to tell his “Followers” that “No, that is not what I want, you are perverting my teaching, and no, you do not understand what I was talking about or what I showed my followers while I was alive in a human body actually teaching.”

When you believe something different from others you stand a good chance of being persecuted by those whoh don’t believe as you do, especially if they don’t like you and that expands to active disdain for you and your beliefs because they conflict with those who disagree with you.

If you don’t believe in premarital sex, even if you are not a Christian, you are likely to be persecuted by those who do believe in it and who think you are an idiot.

When you believe in the right to life and defend the right of children to live, and thus oppose abortion, you stand to be, and are, persecuted by abortion advocates who think you are not merely an idiot, but a waste of resources and deserving of death, as in “You are an excellent argument for abortion, you should have been aborted!”

If you are black or white or any other color or race and stand against preferred treatment for any group, you are likely to be persecuted by black “leaders” and black racists, and their white, and other, enablers-sympathizers, who are most often liberal and left wing racists themselves.

If you are a Republican or consider yourself a Conservative you are quite likely to be persecuted by others. You stand to be physically attacked as well, which happens quite often to conservatives in real life, including public personalities.

Christians are not the only group which is persecuted, and I have long ago passed the point at which I find it annoying that Christians make a fuss about being poor, persecuted Christians.

People are idiots. People disagree. Stand up for what you believe and stop making excuses. If you were not persecuted for being a Christian, you would still be likely to be persecuted for something else.

William

William2006 on February 26, 2007 at 3:17 AM

I wonder what motivation some people have for some of these projects, such as this expose by James Cameron, et al, regarding Jesus.

Are they afraid?

Are they angry about something?

What would they do if someone was alive today whose followers believed he is the Lord incarnate? Would these folks investigate with a “Let’s expose them for the fraud that they are” motivation? Would they seek him out and sit as his feet, and, with an open heart, seek the Truth? Would they seek him out in order to mock him? Or would they seek him out because they accept it as fact without any investigation, and follow him without thinking and without any personal, deep, inner experience, because it is the chic thing to do?

William2006 on February 26, 2007 at 3:28 AM

I wonder what motivation some people have for some of these projects, such as this expose by James Cameron, et al, regarding Jesus.

William2006 on February 26, 2007 at 3:28 AM

The claim that these particular archeological finds are relevant to the founding figure of Christianity.

No one’s seen this film yet. If it’s so blatantly false and absurd, why not simply wait for the experts to rebut? They’re already starting to but none of us have gotten to see this film’s side of the argument.

Personally it makes zero difference to me if this is or isn’t the grave of Jesus.

Are they afraid?

Are they angry about something?

Right back at you.

Shy Guy on February 26, 2007 at 3:40 AM

Acccording to the MSNBC article, one of the names was “Judas, son of Jesus.” Does anybody think that Jesus (the one who matters — there were many people named Jesus or some derivative back then) would have named his son Judas?

Cato on February 26, 2007 at 3:50 AM

Well, Cato, maybe before they had that little falling out…

see-dubya on February 26, 2007 at 3:58 AM

“Judas” is “Yehuda”, a very popular Jewish name. The word “Jew” is from “Yehudi”, originally referring to members of the tribe of Yehuda, who was Patriarch Jacob’s 4th son and the ancestor of all Jewish king’s lineage.

No surprises here.

Or maybe the Judas Gospel is right.

No matter.

Shy Guy on February 26, 2007 at 4:38 AM

I’m not worried. More powerful people have tried and Christians can still confidently claim an empty tomb – or more appropriately, a risen savior.

I do find it interesting that questioning the diety of Christ always occurs near Easter…

looking4statesmen on February 26, 2007 at 7:13 AM

From the Discovery Channel press release:

“Dr. Carney Matheson from the Paleo-DNA Laboratory at Lakehead University in Ontario, Canada, conducted a mitochondrial DNA analysis on microscopic bits of matter recovered from the ‘Jesus son of Joseph’ and ‘Mariamene e Mara’ ossuaries. The test genetically concludes that the two were not maternally related. Given that this was a family burial place reserved for spouses and blood relations, it is possible to deduce that they were a couple.”

So there you have it. The proof that Jesus Christ and ‘Mariamene e Mara’ had a child together is the fact that two sets of DNA found in this crypt don’t match.

Blacksheep on February 26, 2007 at 9:39 AM

I’ve recently (past few years) come back as an active Christian and I have to give partial credit Hollywood and those who try so virulently to shake my faith. When I wasn’t practising my faith, there were people in my life who would discuss referencing a spiritual battle that was going on. I looked askance at them thinking they were fanatics. But there’s more and more evidence of it and anytime I see movies or whatever designed to shake my faith, it just confirms what I believe. When will Hollywood understand that the more they try to sway us from our faith, the stronger we are in our resolve? They’ll never get it.

foxforce91 on February 26, 2007 at 9:40 AM

The bottom of the coffin says: “Made in China”.

shermacman on February 26, 2007 at 9:50 AM

Lights out!
Camer-off!
Non-action!

See what happens to Cameron when he skips his therapy?

Coronagold on February 26, 2007 at 10:21 AM

Five years, ten days without movies for me.

mymanpotsandpans on February 26, 2007 at 10:40 AM

If I am not mistaken, when I was reading this story yesterday, hasn’t the ossuary that they claim to hold Jesus’s remains been lost. It was left sitting around outside. Doesn’t sound like this was considered a very important find if that happened. I also find the 20 years to decipher the names somewhat strange. I am a Roman Catholic, my faith in the Risen Lord Jesus will not be touched by an elitist leftist agenda to deny Christ. The New Testament has many warnings about false prophets, so to speak. Not that I am calling Cameron a prophet, just pointing out that we (Christians) should be on guard against garbage like this.

still468 on February 26, 2007 at 11:08 AM

The bottom of the coffin says: “Made in China”.
shermacman on February 26, 2007 at 9:50 AM

Now that was funny…

Thanks Bryan, great post, links, etc. Must’ve taken quite a while.
We are at war folks. A spiritual war. Good vs. evil. Good will prevail.
This farce of a movie is not new, as so many here have said. For two thousand years, evil has tried to say that the King of Kings doesn’t live on, and sadly they don’t realize that HE lives within us all. More than 1/3rd of the world, approx 2.3 Billion of us, call ourselves Christians and that’s after two thousand years of evil trying to snuff out the Light.
The good news here is that this WILL bring some people in to ask questions, let them remain to pray.

They know not what they do.

shooter on February 26, 2007 at 11:51 AM

If I am not mistaken, when I was reading this story yesterday, hasn’t the ossuary that they claim to hold Jesus’s remains been lost.

I think the one to which you’re referring was found, balanced on a toilet and tub in some fake artifact dealers bathroom.

shooter on February 26, 2007 at 11:54 AM

but remember … Hollywood doesn’t hate Christians. They’re not bigoted. … not even a little.

One Angry Christian on February 26, 2007 at 12:25 PM

2000 years and they’re still trying to debunk Christ and who He is. Cameron will fade away and be completely forgotten, but Christ remains firm.

armyvet on February 26, 2007 at 12:47 PM

Why not look for the skeleton of Mohammad? I guess that wouldn’t be PC for a guy like Cameron.

Valiant on February 26, 2007 at 12:50 PM

Actually the “prophet” is entombed here.

Valiant on February 26, 2007 at 12:56 PM

Aside from the blindingly obvious stupidity of DNA “matching” (what are they comparing it with?), I found this bit of the article mind boggling:

Since tombs normally contain either blood relations or spouses, Jacobovici and his team suggest it is possible Jesus and Mary Magdalene were a couple. “Judah,” whom they indicate may have been their son, could have been the “lad” described in the Gospel of John as sleeping in Jesus’ lap at the Last Supper.

The only thing I could come up with is that they are referring to this passage in John 13: 23-25

One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him.
24 Simon Peter motioned to this disciple and said, Ask him which one he means.
25 Leaning back against Jesus, he asked him, Lord, who is it?

Which is John himself. John referrs to himself in this manner all through the gospel. So already Cameron et. al are refuting themselves by quoting scripture.

Taleena on February 26, 2007 at 1:18 PM

Oh, No! I’ve just lost my religion! Because it was a mindless superstition based on old myths and fairy tales, you know. Now that I know that there are actually bones with different maternal DNA in a tomb in Jerusalem, I feel the perfect fool. How could I have been so blind?

Can I sue this Cameron guy for the emotional distress?

NellE on February 26, 2007 at 1:45 PM

I agree with the person who wrote something to the effect of the more my Christian faith is attacked, the stronger my resolve and belief in it is. But also when you believe then you pray and have interaction with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit…no not saying I hear them talking to me. I mean there are so many things in my past that I can point to and realized God worked in my life to bless me, correct me, answer a prayer, protect me, etc. This would not be possible is I didn’t try to have a relationship with Him. People don’t accept Christianity because they have been deluded into beliveing the change it makes one go through isn’t as “fun” and the life of pointless sinning they are living…Do any of these liberals seems happy to anyone? Christians are not perfect…just forgiven…

I saw a great movie this weekend called Facing the Giants…it really uplifted and rejuvenated me…I recommend it!

CCRWM on February 26, 2007 at 1:53 PM

The claim that that ossuary is fake is far from decided. Only one out of the four tests failed and it failed on the part that would not be forged, the part with the name of James. If they were trying to fake something, they’d fake the name of Jesus.

That being said, I find it ironic that when it can prove the existence of Christ….Oh it is a forgery…when it can be used as proof that Christ was the first “L” in CS Lewis’ hypothosis….Well, then it is real and accurate.

Either way, I find the entire thing sickening.

Tim Burton on February 26, 2007 at 1:54 PM

From its inception Christianity has been under attack. Do you think if the Pharisees had Jesus’ bones they’d wait 2000 years to crush a bunch of Jewish heretics?
Look at how hard Islam tries to discredit Christianity, do you think if there was even a remote possiblity of having Jesus’ bones 1400 years ago, they’d pass it up? PUH-leeeze.
Besides, Jesus was a poor carpenter from Nazareth. He wouldn’t have a family crypt in Jerusalem.

Actually thinking about it, doesn’t Islam claim that Allah came and took Jesus off the cross directly to heaven, with a volunteer taking his place? Cameron, by claiming he has Jesus’ bones just attacked the veracity of Islam! He got a two-fer and didn’t even know it!

Iblis on February 26, 2007 at 2:06 PM

The only purpose any of this could serve is an attempt at making “Jesus is debunked” as some sort of “meme” to get it to stick in people’s minds.

A lot like global warming; I’ve argued with people who say I’m anti-science, and that I’m the ignorant one because “all the scientists agree” that global warming is being caused by people. Once you get something stuck as “common knowledge”, it’s hard to get people to abandon it.

How sad this must make God, that his children fight him so much…

Viewtifulgare on February 26, 2007 at 2:25 PM

James Cameron: Michael Moore, but more cheesy.

spmat on February 26, 2007 at 2:56 PM

Any person’s blood, post-conception, is determined by their father’s blood, not their mother’s, which is why a blood test can determine paternity so much easier than maternity.

That is simply untrue. Everyone has two genes, each of which is either A, B, or O, and two more genes, each of which is either Rh+ or Rh-. You get one of the A/B/O genes from your father and the other from your mother, same with the Rh genes.

The Monster on February 26, 2007 at 6:08 PM