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WaPo: Dem centrists revolt against the slow bleed

posted at 2:21 pm on February 23, 2007 by Allahpundit
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Oh, it’s sweet. Syrupy sweet. Murtha’s fat mouth + anti-nutroots backlash = crazy, crazy delicious.

House Democrats have pulled back from efforts to link additional funding for the war to strict troop-readiness standards after the proposal came under withering fire from Republicans and from their party’s own moderates. That strategy was championed by Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) and endorsed by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.).

“If you strictly limit a commander’s ability to rotate troops in and out of Iraq, that kind of inflexibility could put some missions and some troops at risk,” said Rep. Chet Edwards (D-Tex.), who personally lodged his concerns with Murtha…

[The slow bleed] approach may be all but dead, according to several Democratic lawmakers. Murtha doomed his own plan in part by unveiling it on a left-wing Web site, inflaming party moderates. [This site? -- ed.]

“Congress has no business micromanaging a war, cutting off funding or even conditioning those funds,” said Rep. Jim Cooper (Tenn.), a leading Democratic moderate, who called Murtha’s whole effort “clumsy.”

Cooper’s position underscores the challenges now facing the House Democratic leadership. While the caucus’s liberal wing is demanding legislation to end the war almost immediately, moderates such as Cooper say Congress should focus on oversight of the war and stay away from legislation that encroaches on the war powers of the president.

“I think Congress begins to skate on thin ice when we start to micromanage troop deployments and rotations,” said Texas’s Edwards, whose views reflect those of several other Democrats from conservative districts.

I’m mainlining schadenfreude from the hint that they might have gone along with it if not for Spanky pandering to the same cretins who routinely threaten to drive centrist Democrats from office. But let’s not OD: Carl Levin’s alternative is a new AUMF, co-authored with Joe Biden, demanding full withdrawal by March 31 of next year and limiting combat operations to Al Qaeda in Iraq. How they propose to have U.S. troops distinguish AQ fighters from indigenous Sunni jihadis is unclear; why they’d refuse to let U.S. troops target the Mahdi Army is uncertain, particularly given our own intel assessments that the Shiite extremists are a bigger threat to stability than the Sunnis. Do the Democrats really not grasp that having the U.S. military flatten the Sunnis and then leave would be tantamount to handing the country to Muqtada al-Sadr? Or do they simply not care because, after all, it’s “their war, not ours”?

I’ve said before that I think Congress could constitutionally revoke the 2002 AUMF. That wouldn’t infringe on the prerogatives of the executive because it wouldn’t tell him how to command troops in the field; it would simply withdraw the authorization granted to him to command troops in the field in the first place. Levin and Biden don’t want to revoke it, though; they want to dictate operations, which is why I think this one’s a loser on separation of powers grounds if it ever comes before a court:

The new resolution would restrict U. S. military efforts in Iraq to training and logistical support for the Iraqi army, counter-terrorism operations and securing the Iraqi borders, especially with Iran and Syria, said the Democratic insiders, who would speak only on the condition of anonymity as the drafting proceeds.

The GOP says it’ll never get the 60 votes needed to pass, so Levin and Biden are thinking of adding it as an amendment to a bill that will — like the bill to enact the 9/11 Commission’s recommendations, or the next spending bill. Then Bush will have to veto that bill and they’ll get to do what Democrats do best: stamp their feet and feign indignation when the president vetoes the bill, even though everyone will know that he wouldn’t have vetoed it if not for the AUMF provision, which could and should be split off into a (doomed) bill of its own. Their problem, very simply, is that they don’t have 60 votes in the Senate to beat a GOP filibuster of any sort, and until they do they’re wasting their time trying to figure out new and ever cleverer ways of sneaking some anti-war measures through. But hey, if the situation in Baghdad deterioriates, a few more Republican senators might jump ship and they could reach the magic number. There’s something for the nutroots to cross its fingers for.

Is it worth noting that Our Moral Leader thinks the surge is a good idea? For now, that is; when it starts to go bad, he’ll claim he was “misled.” Meanwhile, Cheney’s finally gotten back to Pelosi after she stamped her feet and feigned indignation when he accused her of validating AQ’s strategy:

Vice President Dick Cheney refused Friday to take back his charge that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s opposition to President Bush’s Iraq war buildup is playing into the hands of the al Qaeda terrorist network.

“If you’re going to advocate a course of action that basically is withdrawal of our forces from Iraq, then you don’t get to just do the fun part of that, that says, ‘We’ll, we’re going to get out,’ and appeal to your constituents on that basis,” Cheney said…

“You also have to be accountable for the results. What are the consequences of that? What happens if we withdraw from Iraq?,” he said. “And the point I made and I’ll make it again is that al-Qaida functions on the basis that they think they can break our will. That’s their fundamental underlying strategy, that if they can kill enough Americans or cause enough havoc, create enough chaos in Iraq, then we’ll quit and go home. And my statement was that if we adopt the Pelosi policy, that then we will validate the strategy of al-Qaida. I said it and I meant it.”

Asked if he was willing to take back his criticism of Pelosi, Cheney replied, “I’m not backing down.”

Is he wrong? It’s worth revisiting Zawahiri’s (alleged) letter to Zarqawi in 2005. Quote:

If our intended goal in this age is the establishment of a caliphate in the manner of the Prophet and if we expect to establish its state predominantly–according to how it appears to us–in the heart of the Islamic world, then your efforts and sacrifices–God permitting–are a large step directly towards that goal.

So we must think for a long time about our next steps and how we want to attain it, and it is my humble opinion that the Jihad in Iraq requires several incremental goals:

The first stage: Expel the Americans from Iraq.

That’s the very first step. That’s what Murtha, and Levin and Biden, are trying to make happen.

Exit question: If, per fringe leftist dogma, the Iraq war is a war for Israel, how do we explain this?

Update: Hold the phone — Powell didn’t say he supports the surge. Go figure.


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Comment pages: 1 2

26 diggs? That’s it?

Get with the program people.

Theworldisnotenough on February 23, 2007 at 7:05 PM

She has to realize that we have had enough of her and her party’s rude and violent behaviour. This is the party that she supports. No Democrat is denouncing these acts of violence, and they are encouraging them on their hateful websites. Even one of their presidential candidates hired two of these hatchet men(?).
We don’t need to be nice to people that support violence against common, decent people.
If she wants to be part of a group that caters to extremists than she has to take the heat.
She is a fool, which is why she is a Democrat. We do not want to convince her to become a conservative, we do not want people like her representing us.

I’m going to assume you’re not referring to me here buddy. This thread has degenerated into heaping insults on honora. You don’t want to convince people like her? What do you suggest, euthenasia? On top of that, you think the Dem party is represented by one privileged brat who attacked someone based on their political views?
You wanna know why I’m here instead of a Dem site? Because the Dem site comments sound just like this thread.
If you want to point out how she wrong, great. To keep piling on with insults just cuz you can is stupid and childish.

Reminds me of this very overweight and not very pretty or popular girl on campus. Used to come in on Monday and tell the biggest lies of going to Hollywood parties, dancing with so and so at clubs.
She loved the attention, but never could realize that everyone was laughing at her, and not with her. Poor thing, she just kept on trying. She thought she was so smart and “in”. Years later, ran into her, she told me of the great marriage, successful husband, etc., turned out she never married. She is probably posting somewhere in cyber space. Trying to be the center of attention…poor thing.

And this is just sad. What are you, 12? You are obviously very intelligent and well spoken, as evidenced in previous comments. Why are you sinking to this level?

SouthernDem on February 23, 2007 at 7:34 PM

Hey SouthernDem……BBQ…my house, 1 hour, keg included.

Limerick on February 23, 2007 at 5:04 PM

I’m there! Keg’s not Miller Lite is it?

SouthernDem on February 23, 2007 at 7:36 PM

Not Lite….NEVER Lite….Lite is for 3rd world countries.

Limerick on February 23, 2007 at 8:42 PM

RedinBlue, you reminded me of something interesting and important and why honora did take the thread in the direction she did: If the Dems can make the case that we’re not fighting AlQueda in Iraq (per Cheney), then that’s all the more reason to justify their withdrawal plans.
This is one of the Dems’ favorite arguments for the “hopeless cause” that is our mission in Iraq–”It’s an internecine war between Iraqi sectarian factions and none of our business, so we should leave and let them fight amongst themselves.”
Good call. While someone above bemoans the tenor of the thread and chides us for not trying to convince the “other side” like honora, it’s clear to me that honora (whom I regard as a Dem seminar poster) has long ago made up her mind and will not be persuaded but is here to sway others, but that being said, I think many here made some very good refutation and explanations.

Jen the Neocon on February 23, 2007 at 8:45 PM

Yeah, but that won’t happen. We can’t take the gloves off for the same reason that Israel couldn’t take the gloves off against Hezbollah. We’re expected to uphold a different standard

Then why could the “greatest generation” wipe out entire cities in Europe and still be called by that title and be respected around the globe? Answer: because they went full bore to achieve victory, to win. That is what the American people want, not another Viet Nam. I say take the gloves off, get behind the effort and win, then see how we are perceived by the rest of the world. It will be better than it is now, I’m sure.

We lost more soldiers in many single battles in WWII than in all of the Iraq campaign, but did not go home with our tail between our legs. And what was the result? A free Europe, a democratic Germany and Japan. Anyone who says it can’t be done in Iraq is saying either that the people of Iraq do not deserve freedom or cannot handle it, both of which are implicitly racist.

IrishEyes on February 23, 2007 at 8:57 PM

This thread has degenerated into heaping insults on honora. You don’t want to convince people like her? What do you suggest, euthenasia?

SouthernDem, the thread “degenerated” because honora degenerated it–which is what she does, most days in the late morning to early afternoon, before that bitter old ahg get too drunk to type any more. Her only purpose is to ruin and distort the discussions of conservative adults, because she’s…..see the above description

I generally don’t even try to join a thread if that lefty cow is splattering her usual trash. Maybe you haven’t read this blog for very long, but she says the same things, over and over again, with the same surly-drunk tone. It was old a long time, ago, man

On one occasion, honora claimed to have “worked closely with” the Prime Minister of Ireland–although she never has answered my obvious question: Which one ( and ‘worked closely’ how ?)

Read her posts again, here and earlier: most of what she says is insult and personal attacks. Occasionally we get a typical leftist talking point, re-hashed again and again

She is a troll: trolls live to anger and insult others, and spoil their attempts at conversation. You sound troll-ish yourself: you seem more interested in going after the people trying to tolerate and reason with her than in continuing a worthwhile discussion

If you think so little of this blog, go back to DU.

Janos Hunyadi on February 23, 2007 at 9:38 PM

ahg = hag / in her case, it’s all same-same

Janos Hunyadi on February 23, 2007 at 9:39 PM

Janos Hunyadi and IrishEyes pretty much said it all right there. That being said it’s back to regular programming.

It’s all a big slow moving show right now. The lefties against the centrists is going to be a big push pull, because they hold the power right now. I say let them eat each other for awhile. The bad thing about the current show is that only the stagehands are watching. Next year the crowd will pour into the theatre and then… boink.

It’s amazing how patient the real political pros are in order to gain their hold on the American public. Nothing good can come from the hardcore campaigning starting 22 months out. With Hillary playing ‘Martha’ Stewart and George Washington all rolled into one for 2 years… dam that’s scary.

Griz on February 23, 2007 at 11:01 PM

You sound troll-ish yourself: you seem more interested in going after the people trying to tolerate and reason with her than in continuing a worthwhile discussion

If you think so little of this blog, go back to DU.

Janos Hunyadi on February 23, 2007 at 9:38 PM

That was a great comment til you got to that part.
Did you even read my last comment? I remarked on the comments that personally attacked her. But whatever.
Find one comment I’ve made that’s trollish. I’m here for discussion, not to call you stupid names and make you feel pathetic.
If you reread my comment, it was actually a compliment for the civility I am accustomed to here. My point: If she’s baiting you with ad hominem attacks and the such, don’t sink to that level.
And I’ve never commented on DU, snarky.
Yall have a great weekend.

SouthernDem on February 23, 2007 at 11:18 PM

Anyone know what Heath Shuler, self-proclaimed “conservative Democrat”? He’s the one that got more votes than Charles Taylor in House District 11 in Sothwestern NC’s mountain counties by running to the right of Charles Taylor…oh…and by promising money from a road that was never built in Swain County. (Bwahahaha).

SouthernGent on February 23, 2007 at 11:30 PM

SouthernDem on February 23, 2007 at 7:34 PM

Do you think violence is represented by one person? What a stupid statement. How about the defamation of our capitol monuments? How about the shouting down of conservatives on college campuses? How about the tire slashing of a liberal’s tires on the campus of the Claremont Colleges?…and it turned out to be her (the liberals) car, she did it to herself to blame conservatives. Why? Because she could not find any assault by conservatives on liberals. I and others could name dozens more attacks by political liberals on conservatives, but not the other. You must not read the paper, how about other blogs calling for the death of our president, or the continued death of our soldiers. Ever see a conservative asking for our soldiers too die and cheering the news? SoutherDem, you are living in a vacuum if you do not see the hate filled left. Added to that is Murtha asking to “slow bleed” our military. If you do not give our military the proper support, they die. Makes you feel all warm and cozy? You do not think the bloggers Edwards hired was spewing hate? I would like to see what you call hate. Now I suggest you go to the thread on Hot Air “When moonbats attack” and read some of the comments. Read catie96706 on February 22, 2007 at 5:08 PM. That is an indication of the party you support. Now try to find similiar situations with conservatives. I do not have to give any respect for someone who supports violence against common people. The leftists are using our goodwill and good citizenship to promote violence, I don’t and others don’t have to take it. You on the other hand have no problem, you are a democrat…you are supporting these thugs. “Oh no, not me” you say, but you just have, by turning your back on the facts. Listen to the vile coming out from San Fran., listen to the hateful rhetoric coming from the left.
I have had it, if you support this angry violent behavior, if you think it is part of normal political rhetoric, than you have to stand and take what is coming. Your people physically impose harm on innocent people, and when I type a few words exposing them, you get upset. Go on stand tall with them, that is what you support. I do not have to, nor will I ever allow America to be taken over by thugs. You and your kind do not intimidate me.

right2bright on February 23, 2007 at 11:44 PM

snarky.

I will have a good weekend, SouthernDem. Having someone like you call me ailly names will only makes the W.E. better. You spent too much time running interference for honora to have much credibility, so, really, try out DU if you haven’t been there–which I doubt

Before you go, read what right2bright said–as he said more than I did, and said it much better. Honora speaks in the same vein with the same tone as the Very Worst in current political rhetoric. She is obviously a troubled person, and at times is clearly intoxicated. Anyone who tries to block for her is, in some respects, worse

Janos Hunyadi on February 24, 2007 at 1:17 AM

right2bright on February 23, 2007 at 11:44 PM

Honestly r2b, you always have facts to back up what you’re saying, but you are refusing to comment on the fact that you sank to her level by personally attacking her. You’ve read my comments on other topics and I’ve always been respectful, so you’ve got nothing to stand on by calling me a far lefty. If you think I’m trying to intimidate you, you are paranoid.

Janos Hunyadi on February 24, 2007 at 1:17 AM

Your response is to lump me in with the DU scum because I objected to personal attacks on a commenter, what a strategy. I may not know honora as well as you, but that’s not the point. I’ve stood up for Cons on Dem sites and you two jumping down my throat, saying you “won’t be intimidated” because I called you out for being childish is sad. Besides, I wasn’t even referring to you Janos. And hey, how about those troll comments I made? Where are they?

SouthernDem on February 24, 2007 at 8:52 AM

SouthernDem on February 24, 2007 at 8:52 AM

Maybe I can help out here. Not that my opinion is sooooo worthy of others respect.

Guys, I have been paying attention to SouthernDem’s comments for a while and he/she is no troll. He is right about the personal insults. It has no place here. We are above that because it is immature and does nothing to further honest discussion.

And as much as I hate it, I forget sometimes and go over the edge. I think I got pretty close in this thread and it did nothing to advance rational discussion.

Getting off topic to deal with the poor behavior of our members is a responsibility we all share and we should not be afraid or attacked as a troll when we do.

Peace brothers!

csdeven on February 24, 2007 at 9:46 AM

Peace brothers!

Amen

SouthernDem on February 24, 2007 at 10:24 AM

Oh goodie, goodie. Now we’re back to the perfectly PC world. Oh how lovely. Now if only we could persuade those who’ve lost loved ones in Iraq to shut-up, eh? All the damage being done by Democrats right now makes me madder than he11. And if I want to scream at someone about it I will. Plain and simple. Their ignorance and selfish nature does harm to our troops and their families. At the worse, they embolden an immensurable cruel enemy. At the least, they bring worry and pain to the families of those serving this honorable war. There is no excuse for their inconsiderate words and actions. If Murtha had no support he’d shut the he11 up. He won’t. He will scream. He will win because babies get their way in today’s America. And the strong fight in bone jarring silence.

Griz on February 24, 2007 at 11:16 AM

Griz, keep the faith, my brother!
The whole point of this post is that Murtha and his peacenik minions are being defeated by moderates in their own party.
I feel your anger and frustration and I feel the same way you do–these people have blood on their hands whether they’ll admit it or not, but they do not represent the majority of the American people and they will not get away with their attempts at staging what amounts to a coup d’etat of the Bush Administration.
If you have any of these traitors for a Congressman or Senator, write and let them know how unhappy you are. Also, write the editors of your local paper, too.
These b*stards are our elected representatives and whatever they may say in the press, they were not elected in November to sell America and her soldiers down the river because they don’t have the courage to fight this war to victory.
None of them ran on an anti-war ticket and the ones that did, like Lamont in
Vermont, lost.
Americans love winners and heroes and they do not love whiners and cowards.

Jen the Neocon on February 24, 2007 at 11:51 AM

On one occasion, honora claimed to have “worked closely with” the Prime Minister of Ireland–although she never has answered my obvious question: Which one ( and ‘worked closely’ how ?)

Read her posts again, here and earlier: most of what she says is insult and personal attacks. Occasionally we get a typical leftist talking point, re-hashed again and again

She is a troll: trolls live to anger and insult others, and spoil their attempts at conversation. You sound troll-ish yourself: you seem more interested in going after the people trying to tolerate and reason with her than in continuing a worthwhile discussion

If you think so little of this blog, go back to DU.

Janos Hunyadi on February 23, 2007 at 9:38 PM

I am speechless that you remember a blog discussion from that long ago!! My I am fascinating, am I not?

The PM in question was Reynolds. If memory serves he resigned shortly thereafter with some scandal involved. My company was opening a plant in Taum outside of Galway, Reynolds spoke at the opening and we worked together on press coverage and talking points. We had a dinner at Glenlo Abbey with Reynolds and various other politicos, they were very interested in a high profile for bringing a high tech business to W Ireland. Shall I forward you some of the press clippings?

Why you could conceivably be interested in this is beyond me.

honora on February 24, 2007 at 11:54 AM

Your response is to lump me in with the DU scum because I objected to personal attacks on a commenter, what a strategy. I may not know honora as well as you, but that’s not the point. I’ve stood up for Cons on Dem sites and you two jumping down my throat, saying you “won’t be intimidated” because I called you out for being childish is sad. Besides, I wasn’t even referring to you Janos. And hey, how about those troll comments I made? Where are they?

SouthernDem on February 24, 2007 at 8:52 AM

None of these people know me, especially not the ones who get so outraged with me because I don’t agree with them. Surely you have met folks like this in real life–unable to handle any disagreement, low threshold of frustration, name callers.

You have asked to have your incidents of name calling pointed out; don’t hold your breath. What you have to understand is that it’s irrelevant to people with these shortcomings–they will get nasty and ugly and vulgar because they can on the internet. I imagine in real life, there are some seriously sad stories here. What else explains it?

honora on February 24, 2007 at 11:59 AM

C’mon, we all know you’re the button-pusher. :)

Enrique on February 23, 2007 at 4:38 PM

Well duh….

But that’s different than name calling, is it not? I admit I get a kick out of the extraordinary amount of vitriol I can incite. It’s rather incredible; was Pavlov right or was he right? Imagine getting this worked up over someone whom you have never met? Defies all reason.

Frankly I see it as a public service–these little souls take out their nastiness on me and there’s less kicking of the dog!!

Have a nice weekend.

honora on February 24, 2007 at 12:06 PM

Oh you’re so brave with your insinuations here honora. The only shortcomings from here come from a wee small person that goes by the name of honora. A troll who’s bravery is that of a small slug. Who’s intelligence is so make-believe Mickey Mouse would have trouble finding it. You lie until there is no tomorrow and then demand respect? You sad, sad little troll. Have you ever said or written anything positive? No. Have you ever given another’s viewpoint even a second consideration? No. Just like all the liberals you go round and round and never really say anything. Let’s get serious.

How many soldier’s deaths are you and your kind responsible for? It’s common knowledge our enemies believe they can convince your kind to give up. Since your kind plays right along with their warplan how long does the war go on after it could have been won and done by your kind simply joining with America instead of against her? Read some history. In your case it would be a rude awakening.

Since I’m sure you will not address these issues directly, you’ll whine about some trivial freedom of yours taken away. Or your ability and freedom to voice your opinion. Well shut the he11 up. Nobody wishes to hear it. You are the trivial one. You and your kind have blood on your hands and no place here to wipe it.

Griz on February 24, 2007 at 12:17 PM

Frankly I see it as a public service–these little souls take out their nastiness on me and there’s less kicking of the dog!!

Have a nice weekend.

honora on February 24, 2007 at 12:06 PM

Ummmm… you can climb down off the cross now, honora. Sheesh.

For what it’s worth, for the record, SouthernDem has always seemed to me to be the kind of person with whom I could have an honest debate.

techno_barbarian on February 24, 2007 at 12:32 PM

I imagine in real life, there are some seriously sad stories here. What else explains it?

We are all losers, living in our dismal insignificant world, a world of ignorance, inferior talents and wasted lives, wishing above all else we could attain the insight, stature and superior intellect of St. Honora.

There, I think that explains it. Well, it agrees with your theory anyway.

fogw on February 24, 2007 at 1:49 PM

I’d rather go hunting with Dick, than driving with Ted.

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on February 23, 2007 at 3:05 PM

I got that on the back of my gas guzzling monster SUV that I drive as a gun owning single male. YEAH YEAH!

I appreciate DC’s comments. It’s about time someone starts calling these chumps out. Since DC isn’t running for Prez he should get out there and start throwing bean balls!

VikingGoneWild on February 24, 2007 at 1:57 PM

SouthernDem on February 24, 2007 at 8:52 AM

You missed my point, I am tired of listening to libs condone behaviour of their party. I listed several instances, and the pattern is clear except to the very indoctrinated. You think because someone can come here and cast stones, make false accusations, pretend to be someone they are not, and when called out, and yes even stoop to there level, you complain…not about the instigator but the defender. That is exactly the problem with the democratic party. You are afraid (or you condone) behaviour of your party, but attack when someone defends. I am sure, more than sure, that you are a fine person, make that an incredibly nice person and would be a great neighbor. I just am confused how such a good citizen supports a party that condones these actions. Every liberal paper fights things like Jessica’s law, why? That is not a left/right issue, it is one of moral courage. I don’t want to fight with someone about morality, but when you try to take away that from me, I will fight. The same with when the dems charge (physically) the stage where a conservative is making a speach (and this is almost every speach now) I don’t have to take it. Especially when someone says to me “don’t stoop to ther level and call names”, bull pucky…you (generic term for libs) are trying to steal rights away from me, you (generic term for libs) will not intimadate us. What it does is escalate, we are not storming stages, allowing child molesters to walk free, deface our national monuments, storm into houses, picket private citizens houses, hire blogger “hit men”, but there is a time when we say enough is enough. Now Honora can play her “victim” card as most liberals do, but she has been caught in her share of lies, and maybe some of us are tired of lies. You on the other hand (generic you) embrace those people and defend them. That is your right, just don’t think you can find sanctuary in Hot Air. We are conservatives, and we will defend our right to be right. We accept AP as an athiest, we accept Tammy Bruce for her liberal but honest assesments…what we want is honesty and forthrightness, not lies and victimhood, and people defending obvious moral misjudgements.

Remember where this started. Murtha, the ABSCAM man. A man who, if the liberal press hadn’t blown the whistle on this take down, would have accepted bribes (as stated in his taped discussion with the FBI undercover agent), is asking to withhold money so our soldiers are left out to dry (read die). Go ahead and support; Pelosi the tuna queen, Murtha the ABSCAM man, Jefferson and his frozen assests, Reid and his lucky Vegas land deals, ACLU and there defense of porn (gee, I wonder why?) and defense of NAMBLA; the rest of the liberal press who want child rapists to be able to live with no repurcussions (he raped a child, served 10 years…he paid his price), no thanks I do not want that world, and I do not want people who want that world in my life. Honora is such a person, the poor girl. And you, you can make a choice…be a dem and stand with people like Tammy and denounce the leftist party for what they are doing, but still embrace, support and fight to bring back the real democratic party that made our two party system so effective. Or continue to defend people represented by Honora.

right2bright on February 24, 2007 at 4:08 PM

Thank you right2bright for taking the time to pen this simple explaination for all to see and read.

I think it was Thomas Sowell that wrote;

“Politicians often say foolish things. Members of both parties criticize cavalierly and thunder thoughtlessly. They advance irresponsible suggestions and embrace mistaken policies. But most of our politicians, most of the time, stop short of knowingly hurting the country.
Watching the developments in Congress this past week, though, one has to ask: Can that be said any longer about the leadership of the Democratic party?”

Griz on February 24, 2007 at 5:30 PM

magine getting this worked up over someone whom you have never met? Defies all reason.

Frankly I see it as a public service–these little souls take out their nastiness on me and there’s less kicking of the dog!!

Have a nice weekend.

honora on February 24, 2007 at 12:06 PM

You NEVER start or create discussions. The ONLY thing you do is ridicule the views of others, almost always with crude stupid insults of Bush and other Repubs / conservatives. Your ONLY purpose is to sabotage the attempts by sober conservatives to disucss. Your input, such as it is, is TOTALLY negative. The tone is almost always sour, bitter, vile, and nasty–and the political / partisn content NEVER varies: it’s always leftist crap, with the same talking points over and over again

There are too many people like you, and you have many forums on the internet and elsewhere. You only come here to take away, not to add anything of any value. Your intent is to keep people from posting–because they don’t want a wrathful drunk biting at their ankles every time they speak their minds

THAT is what makes you a troll–in the worst sense.

Janos Hunyadi on February 24, 2007 at 7:39 PM

The PM in question was Reynolds. If memory serves he resigned shortly thereafter with some scandal involved. My company was opening a plant in Taum outside of Galway, Reynolds spoke at the opening and we worked together on press coverage and talking points. We had a dinner at Glenlo Abbey with Reynolds and various other politicos, they were very interested in a high profile for bringing a high tech business to W Ireland. Shall I forward you some of the press clippings?

for the record, ‘honora’ you claimed to have “worked closely on several occasions” with the Irish PM. When called and asked to show, you downgraded your story to being a PR flunky on one occasion. You were probably a tourist getting drunk at the bar and noticed a function going on

typical leftie dishonesty, and typical of you

Janos Hunyadi on February 24, 2007 at 10:24 PM

Janos, last night I wrote a note in defense of you not being a troll (on the Rasmussen thread). It was caught in the cyber-sensor-mines until later today. You might wish to go read it.

RightWinged, in the same note I sent you well-deserved compliments.

Regards,

Entelechy on February 24, 2007 at 10:54 PM

Dogs wiggle tails delightfully.

Entelechy on February 24, 2007 at 11:07 PM

SouthernDem, you are a delightfully reasonable, factual and polite Democrat, in the true Kennediesque or Trumanian (not Capote :) fashion. You inspire hope for what could be again, a strong two-party system, within which both parties aim for the best for their country. I’m glad you’re here. Regards,

Entelechy on February 24, 2007 at 11:27 PM

There are actually quite a few Democrats who understand the importance of staying and finishing the war in Iraq, unfortunately the Democratic Party treats them with about the same amount of regard as the Republican Party treats conservatives who want the US to control it’s borders.

Murtha’s socialist blather erodes a lot of conservative and moderate Democrat’s belief in their party so I hope that fake purple heart wearing SOB keeps his mouth flapping nonstop.

The talking point for today is that the war in Iraq has changed. It’s now about the fascist Baath party trying to retake power, Iran invading Iraq by arming and training Shi’a militias, and al Qaeda thugs wanting a Islamofascist sunni nation, they are killing their own innocent people caught in the middle. The death toll of average Iraqi men, women and children being killed and maimed as they go about their lives in tremendous, more innocents die in a week from Islamic militias than our entire death toll the entire war. Iraq is a democracy and those who would pull us out due to a timetable and not the ability of the Democratically elected Iraqi government to protect its own people are not friends of Democracy or of innocent people but are friends of the terrorists and thugs that are harming them.

Will Murtha (or Obama, Hillary, Edwards etc) take full blame for those average Iraqi people who will be dumped into graves all over that nation if they pull the plug on the war (now or later). If they think they would now vote against the war are they saying that they would rather see shi’a slaughter sunni, sunni slaughter shi’a?

Will Murtha etal. accept that due to their actions have already made this war longer than it should have and that by not supporting our mission to stabilize a democratic government in Iraq they have strengthened those groups that seek to overthrow it and weakened our ability to stabilize the legitimate government of Iraq.

A lot of Democrats do understand that the quickest way out of Iraq is by forming a strong undivided front against the terrorists who are blowing up innocent Iraqis by the tens of thousands and that at this moment the US military is the only thing that stands between the terrorists in Iraq and their victims.

Every damn American wants to see us get out of this war but only some of us realize what the cost of people like Murtha, Hillary, Obama etc. retreating really is, human lives.

Buzzy on February 25, 2007 at 1:58 AM

And you guys wonder why I’m a Democrat…..LOL

honora on February 23, 2007 at 4:18 PM

No, I don’t, blame it on your IQ……. (let me know if you want a know what IQ means).

PinkyBigglesworth on February 25, 2007 at 2:28 AM

right2bright on February 24, 2007 at 4:08 PM

Great elaboration, well put. Obviously I don’t agree with everything you said, but that’s to be expected. Where I stand should be pretty obvious by now, but what I’m saying is I won’t abandon civility in the process.
As far as supporting the leaders in my party, sadly, I can not. Not Pelosi, not Murtha, not Reid nor any other (insert offensive term here) that has hijacked my party for the attention of Kos and his ilk. I hope to take BACK my party from these extremists.
Cheers R2B.

SouthernDem on February 26, 2007 at 11:28 AM

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