Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee: Let’s help Hugo butch up his military

posted at 8:54 am on February 22, 2007 by Bryan

Ahem.

A U.S. congresswoman called on the Bush administration Wednesday to reconsider its ban on selling parts for U.S.-made F-16 fighter jets to Venezuela, urging improved ties between the two nations.

The US is still, regularly and at great volume, denounced for its role in arming Saddam Hussein, even though that role pales in comparison to the Soviet and European role in arming Saddam. Those were Soviet tanks our troops fought and ripped apart in 1991, for instance. His air force was comprised mostly of MiGs and Mirages, iirc. His chemical weapons were mostly of German origin. His nuke plant: French. And so on. If we arm Hugo Chavez and he turns out to be half as bad as he appears he’ll be, we’ll be roundly denounced for that. And, Chavez aims all of his propaganda at us. So Lee wants to help arm a guy who demonstrably wants the US destroyed. Help him keep his sleek fighters in the air against ours. Nice.

U.S. Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, a Texas Democrat, told reporters that she was making the first U.S. congressional visit to Venezuela since President Hugo Chavez’s December re-election with the message: “I want an immediate repairing of the relations between the United States and Venezuela.”

Well, head down to Caracas and talk to your buddy Hugo. He’s the one who’s building up citizen militias to resist the Yanqui invasion that he’s just sure is around the corner. He’s the one who’s building up relations with every nefarious anti-American character on the planet, from Castro to the agitated apocalyptic in Tehran.

Jackson Lee described Venezuela as a friendly nation that the U.S. should cooperate with and said that the F-16 jets, which are built in Texas, was an issue of concern to her constituents in Houston.

He’s every bit as friendly as Castro, which to Lee is probably pretty friendly. But check out her motivation. For all the Democrats’ talk about human rights, she’s motivated to arm a thug by the almighty greenback.

Rep. Lee has long been a fairly reprehensible character, but this is a new low. Democrats like her do everything they can to make it impossible for the US to win the wars it fights, but don’t seem to mind using the US to arm their anti-US buddies. It might be time to question someone’s patriotism.


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She said her fact-finding mission to Venezuela was part of an effort by a new Democrat-controlled Congress to show that “Venezuela has many friends in this new Congress

friends like these we don’t need

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 8:58 AM

We obviously need to revamp the laws that define where the line between treasonous actions and responsible representation is.

Wow.

csdeven on February 22, 2007 at 9:01 AM

I knew this woman was haughty and ignorant, I just didn’t realize just HOW haughty and ignorant she was. Geez…

robblefarian on February 22, 2007 at 9:03 AM

Is she freaking insane?

flipflop on February 22, 2007 at 9:04 AM

Sheila Jackson Lee to brain:

Is this thing on?

fogw on February 22, 2007 at 9:11 AM

I hate to say this, but her district in Houston is pretty impoverished. The schools are poor, the neighborhoods are riddled with crime. The people who re-elect her time after time just don’t know any better. They probably don’t have a clue as to what she’s doing. I’m not trying to be racist, but it’s the truth and it’s really pathetic.

pullingmyhairout on February 22, 2007 at 9:14 AM

Chavez seems to know the price at which these Dems will come to heel. Disgusting.

Stormy70 on February 22, 2007 at 9:20 AM

I wonder if this is a way to keep the F-16 (and the people that make it) from being replaced by a newer jet. Isn’t the F-16 getting a bit long in the tooth? I know it’s a great airplane, but the Air Force has got to be exploring its options for a replacement.

Slublog on February 22, 2007 at 9:25 AM

What an idiot. Thanks a lot, Texas.

WisCon on February 22, 2007 at 9:28 AM

I’ll eat crow on this one….I was all over PA for Murtha the other day…..looks like we Lone Star residents have our own.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 9:30 AM

Limerick,
i don’t live in H-Town anymore, but she’s been a regular fixture there for as long as I can remember, and I’m not a spring chicken. She’s a dinosaur like Murtha who somehow survived the ice age.

pullingmyhairout on February 22, 2007 at 9:35 AM

I wonder if this is a way to keep the F-16 (and the people that make it) from being replaced by a newer jet. Isn’t the F-16 getting a bit long in the tooth? I know it’s a great airplane, but the Air Force has got to be exploring its options for a replacement.

Slublog on February 22, 2007 at 9:25 AM

Lockheed-Martin’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (also built in Texas) is scheduled to replace the F-16 and the F-18.

James on February 22, 2007 at 9:35 AM

I want an immediate repairing of the relations between the United States and Venezuela.

I like how the left’s idea of “repairing relations” always starts with the US caving and giving the other guy what they want -over, and over, and over… with no reciprocation. The “other guy” is free to continue disparaging and threatening the US, even killing people in their own or other countries, and the liberals still think the “evil US” should just give them what they want and we’ll all love each other.

What was that quote, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” Some people are fools several times over. The problem is they still haven’t figured it out.

taznar on February 22, 2007 at 9:44 AM

Sheila Jackson Lee is a prime example of what happens to women who pull those braids too tight…it cuts off the blood supply to the head and the brain can’t function.

DoctorDentons on February 22, 2007 at 9:45 AM

Lockheed-Martin’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (also built in Texas) is scheduled to replace the F-16 and the F-18.

Cool.

Well, I’m sure Chavez appreciates the support.

Slublog on February 22, 2007 at 9:51 AM

Why didn’t anyone else think of stimulating the economy by selling to those that hate us?

Pam on February 22, 2007 at 9:53 AM

It might be time to question someone’s patriotism.

That time passed a long time ago.

News2Use on February 22, 2007 at 9:57 AM

I’ll add to what my fellow Texasn have said. She is our Cynthia McKinney. She keeps getting re-elected for the same reason that Cold Cash Jefferson gets re-elected in New Orleans.

SailorDave on February 22, 2007 at 10:00 AM

According to GlobalSecurity(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/venezuela/airforce-equipment.htm) Chavez has 24 f-16s……Hardly going to bring Houston neighborhoods prosperity with spare parts for so few aircraft.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 10:02 AM

Brilliant! Let’s give him some nuclear tech too!

SouthernDem on February 22, 2007 at 10:20 AM

She said her fact-finding mission to Venezuela was part of an effort by a new Democrat-controlled Congress to show that “Venezuela has many friends in this new Congressfriends like these we don’t need
Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 8:58 AM

Let’s fix that:
“Venezuela has bought many friends in this new Congress.”
Anyone interested in underpriced heating oil that you can sell at a top price and pocket the difference?

naliaka on February 22, 2007 at 10:40 AM

Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Moonbat). Also noted is a NY Sun report detailing the fraudulent elections in Venezuela. Nice people the Democrats are cavorting conspiring with.

JammieWearingFool on February 22, 2007 at 10:42 AM

I don’t think you guys understand just what a great idea this is. Once this is established, it opens the door for us to start selling M1A1 Abrams tanks to North Korea, Minuteman missiles to Iran, and Tomahawk missiles to Syria.

It’s a win-win situation. Geez, you guys here are just SO shortsighted…

Nethicus on February 22, 2007 at 10:43 AM

Jackson Lee described Venezuela as a friendly nation that the U.S. should cooperate with and said that the F-16 jets, which are built in Texas, was an issue of concern to her constituents in Houston.

Question: After reading this excerpt, do you feel that Shiela Jackson Lee (a disgrace to my beloved state) is mentally retarded or the same kind of evil that Chavez himself is?

It’s a very tough call for me. I guess it probably depends on whether or not you assume that she knows that Chavez has called America and the President ‘The Great Satan’ and the devil respectively. I think she does know that, so I put her in the second category.

Wolfman on February 22, 2007 at 10:49 AM

I’m sure her texas constituents are wondering – man, I wish we’d give that Chavez somf F-16s. Families are out there talking about it at dinner; its that important.

What a maroon.

lorien1973 on February 22, 2007 at 10:55 AM

I wonder where Ms.Lee stands on spare parts for the Israeli Air Force………They have 362 F-16s in service.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 11:00 AM

She’s a complete moron.

CP on February 22, 2007 at 11:10 AM

She is The Useful idiots’ Queen

The Weekly Standard reported that Rep. Jackson Lee incurred a ridiculous cost to taxpayers, and might be in violation of House ethics rules, by having an aide drive her daily in a government-leased car to and from her congressional office to her Capitol Hill apartment one block away. She once told a staffer who had failed to reserve a limousine,

“You don’t understand. I am a queen, and I demand to be
treated like a queen!”

Ken Lay of Enron helped bankroll her first election to Congress …

The values Lee promotes – and has always promoted – are the values of socialism, communism and anti-Americanism.

Lee paid her establishment political dues – first as an aide to her mentor and predecessor in her House seat, Rep. Ron “Red” Dellums, and later as a California assemblywoman and state senator. However, less known is Lee’s service on the national coordinating committee of the “Committees of Correspondence,” an organization that splintered from the Communist Party USA in 1991. Angela Davis, her good friend, the three-time Communist Party candidate for vice president of the United States, served by her side.

Earlier, while working with Dellums, she joined the U.S.-Grenada Friendship Society, a front group supporting the Communist dictatorship of Maurice Bishop, a close ally of Cuban dictator Fidel Castro. Just months before the U.S. invasion that toppled Bishop in 1983, Lee and Dellums visited the island on official business of the House Armed Services Committee to gauge the military threat posed to the United States by an international airport being built there by Cubans. According to documents captured by U.S. military forces in Grenada, Lee personally presented Bishop’s Politburo with a draft of Dellums’ report before it was presented to his congressional committee.

Jackson Lee’s single biggest campaign contributor in 2003-2004 was the Association of Trial Lawyers of America (ATLA), whose members are wealthy tort lawyers. She has voted against every measure that would limit their profits.

…when Castro locked up 78 dissidents, Congress voted 414-0 to condemn that action… Sheila Jackson Lee(D) abstained with 10 other (D)’s…

DANEgerus on February 22, 2007 at 11:19 AM

lorien1973-

TX18 is Downtown Houston and a few squiggles to concentrate the African-American vote. It was rendered up to rubber-stamp Barbara Jordan into Congress, I believe, and has hosted Mickey Leland’s and Craig Washington’s interesting tenures in Congress.

Craig Washington crossed Ken Lay once too many times, so Kenny Boy pulled SJL from the corner of City Council Chmabers, took off her dunce cap, fixed her hair, stuffed her coffers with cash, and ran her against Craig.

SJL is known as “Queen Shelia” around here for her imperious nature and attitude. She’s also known for being the first thing on a camera lens when the media comes out and takes the caps off.

- She three lost elections to the judiciary before Mayor Kathy took pity upon her and appointed her. If only Harriet Miers had been that persistent, I guess.

- She’s gone to Syria to powwow with Bashar Assad. You know, for peace.

- She’s asked the Mars explorer group to show her where the men landed there.

- She’s banned from Continental Airlines for abusive behavior.

- She frequently crows about her prowess of bringing federal dollars home to Houston. Which is why our initial rail line is not elevated, but at-grade, hitting cars at a record-setting rate, and only NOW getting federal funding to pick up the tab for the disastrous project. If she were truly skilled at getting funding, she’d have gotten the money past DeLay and had it build on elevated tracks.

- She wanted African American names for hurricanes to boost young A-A self-esteem.

- State Of The Union addresses are a full-contact sport for Queen Shelia, and she’s been known to bowl over her fellow Reps to get to the aisle to grab at Bush’s hand coming and going, just for the photo op.

- It is rumored that she went to cornrows after Cynthia McKinney was booted from Congress the first time to show solidarity with the Jew-hating nutcase.

If you’re interested in keeping up with SJL, lonestartimes.com and bloghouston.net tend to follow the trail of slime she leaves and the slipshod work the Houston Chronicle does in trying to mop it up before daylight hits it.

-ls

Laurence Simon on February 22, 2007 at 11:21 AM

Wow, another politician who makes Forrest Gump look smart.

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on February 22, 2007 at 11:26 AM

What an idiot. Thanks a lot, Texas.

Hey WisCon, we might not want to talk smack about Texas – we’ve given the world Russ Feingold and Gwen Moore.

Well, it’s nice to see lib Dems settling back into their traditional Communist-sympathizing. It’s preferrable to their jihadi-sympathizing, although not by much.

Enrique on February 22, 2007 at 11:27 AM

Help him keep his sleek fighters in the air against ours.

All I have to say is F-22 Raptor, baby!

KelliD on February 22, 2007 at 11:39 AM


Help him keep his sleek fighters in the air against ours.
All I have to say is F-22 Raptor, baby!

KelliD on February 22, 2007 at 11:39 AM

Go ahead, put ‘em up there so we can shoot them down.

Griz on February 22, 2007 at 11:47 AM

The people who re-elect her time after time just don’t know any better. They probably don’t have a clue as to what she’s doing. I’m not trying to be racist, but it’s the truth and it’s really pathetic.

I don’t think you’re being racist. I lived in a district like this in New York, same thing happened.

Lockheed-Martin’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (also built in Texas) is scheduled to replace the F-16 and the F-18.

Next thing you know the Dems will want to give the F-35 to Venezuela, before we get it. You know, we wouldn’t want to be unfair, and all.

amerpundit on February 22, 2007 at 11:47 AM

What is the motivation? Has she been keeping up with current events?

I’m beginning to think these people take a special train to DC and along the way they pass through a tunnel and arrive with something wrong with them.

Kini on February 22, 2007 at 11:53 AM

Next thing you know the Dems will want to give the F-35 to Venezuela, before we get it. You know, we wouldn’t want to be unfair, and all.

amerpundit on February 22, 2007 at 11:47 AM

Well, to do otherwise would be a “disproportionate response”. Democrats are all for strong national defense, as long as we’re talking about enemy nations. Which is eerily reminiscent of the way they “support the troops”.

ReubenJCogburn on February 22, 2007 at 11:54 AM

Shelia Jackson Lee may decide to stay down there-we can only hope.

Catie96706 on February 22, 2007 at 12:05 PM

Jackson Lee described Venezuela as a friendly nation that the U.S. should cooperate with and said that the F-16 jets, which are built in Texas, was an issue of concern to her constituents in Houston

I’m sure the the leader of this “friendly nation” will cause quite a “concern to her constituents in Houston” when Venezuelan F-16′s start making attack runs on neighboring countries in South America.

If allowed to operate without US interference, Chavez will invade other countries in the name of “Peace.” This will happen after he uses said F-16′s to provide close combat support of citizen militias (death squads) deployed to quell (destroy) political uprisings (riots) and pacify (kill) political opponents (any one who opposes his totalitarian government) in his own country.

RedinBlueCounty on February 22, 2007 at 12:13 PM

This will happen after he uses said F-16’s to provide close combat support of citizen militias (death squads) deployed to quell (destroy) political uprisings (riots) and pacify (kill) political opponents (any one who opposes his totalitarian government) in his own country.

RedinBlueCounty on February 22, 2007 at 12:13 PM

And then liberals like Sheila will be bending over backwards making excuses for his mass thuggery, just like they always do for any Communist dictator. They’ll also be actively working to obstruct any American efforts to stop or even condemn the slaughter.

ReubenJCogburn on February 22, 2007 at 12:29 PM

I think we need to outlaw congress from visiting our enemies unless it is okayed by the Prez.

ic1redeye on February 22, 2007 at 12:34 PM

Sheila Jackson Lee is Bill Maher’s mother.

Chief1942 on February 22, 2007 at 12:34 PM

- She wanted African American names for hurricanes to boost young A-A self-esteem.

OK, how about ……

CAT5: Hurricane O.J.
CAT4: Hurricane Tupac
CAT3: Hurricane Mookie
CAT2: Hurricane Al
CAT1: Hurricane Jacko

Tropical Storm

fogw on February 22, 2007 at 1:13 PM

“Venezuela has many friends in this new Congress.”

Republican bumper sticker in ’08………..

PinkyBigglesworth on February 22, 2007 at 1:35 PM

Slightly funny OT. At this momont, on the front page of Rep. Jackson-Lee’s website, there is a picture of a whole line of people at a ground-breaking [undescribed]. Everyone’s doing their duty, except Rev. Al, whose shovel is stuck in the ground in front of him, and he’s got this look on his face like: “I don’t do shovel…”

eeyore on February 22, 2007 at 1:39 PM

There is no end to this woman’s stupidity.

tommy1 on February 22, 2007 at 1:42 PM

She’s a closet capitalist. Finding a new market just like the Bank of America is finding a new market with illegals.

icelandicfarmer on February 22, 2007 at 2:15 PM

Unfortunately, it’s not just Lee. Houston is not the city of oil rich urban cowboys anymore, it’s now the city of by the number liberals like Lee. It’s basically a scummier version of extremely liberal Austin Tx. And because of that, Houston is quickly becoming a city no one wants to deal with.

forged rite on February 22, 2007 at 2:55 PM

We should sell them faulty parts, then keep the money of course.

Mark V. on February 22, 2007 at 3:00 PM

Houston is not the city of oil rich urban cowboys anymore, it’s now the city of by the number liberals like Lee.

All the conservatives have moved to areas on the outskirts, like the Woodlands and Sugarland.

Mark V. on February 22, 2007 at 3:01 PM

the first U.S. congressional visit to Venezuela since President Hugo Chavez’s December re-election -and seizing of dictatorial powers- with the message: “I want an immediate repairing of the relations between the United States and Venezuela.”

Once again a much needed correction has been made.

Gwillie on February 22, 2007 at 3:02 PM

eeyore on February 22, 2007 at 1:39 PM

Good catch…that’s pretty funny!

Who is the white guy in the back? Token?

brtex on February 22, 2007 at 3:31 PM

Brilliant idea, Sheila! Maybe we should sell parts to Iran to get their old F-4 and F-14 fighters flying again, too. They’ll need them to carry those nukes they’re building.

Sheila’s proposal to support Chavez’s two F-16 squadrons is pretty foolish even if you’re pro-Chavez. Running a squadron of F-16s costs a lotta bucks, bucks that Chavez is running out of now that his socialist economic blundering is taking hold and wrecking the country. An F-16 engine costs a million bucks while Venezuelans are having a hard time buying groceries in stores full of empty shelves.

F-16s are for countries with plenty of money. My guess is that they are gonna run outa cash to keep those 24 birds in the air. They might be able to keep a couple flying with great effort for propaganda purposes. Most likely, they’ll have to fall back to their F-5s, which are the poor country’s fighter.

I wouldn’t lose any sleep over the Venezuelan F-16 threat. We don’t sell them the full-up model our Air Force uses. Also, Third World pilots don’t get the flying time USAF pilots get. Most of all, the culture of the Third World handicaps their fighter pilots from getting the best training and employing initiative in their missions.

Venezuela is too far from Miami for their F-16s to fly a two-way mission and they have no tankers. They would have to refuel and arm in Cuba to strike America. That would be unwise for Cuba.

Tantor on February 22, 2007 at 3:38 PM

Isn’t she the one that gets to the State of the Union addresses hours before. She sits in an aisle seat for TV time and to shake hands with the President?
I want that job.

right2bright on February 22, 2007 at 3:48 PM

right2bright, yes that’s her…

Hobbits would be indignant. They had small but very smart brains.

Entelechy on February 22, 2007 at 4:45 PM

Hey Sheila, we could make more money selling nukes

doginblack on February 22, 2007 at 4:59 PM

You know….

I have no problem with selling Chavez F-16 parts.

#1 The F-22 can clean the F-16′s clock
#2 The F-35 JSF Can clean the F-16′s clock
#3 The F-15 can clean the F-16′s clock
#4 The F-18 can clean the F-16′s clock
#5 And any of our Sea-based Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers, or Ticonderoga Class Cruisers can waste anything within 200 nautical miles with their Standard Missle Mk-2 (RIM-67 SM-2ER)

So if we can get Venezuela to pay to maintain their over priced F-16s, they have a ground support fighter that can’t stand up to anything in the USAF or USN, and we have an enemeny that didn’t buy improved MIGs.

Remember:

[A] wise general makes a point of foraging
on the enemy. One cartload of the enemy’s provisions
is equivalent to twenty of one’s own, and likewise
a single picul of his provender is equivalent to twenty
from one’s own store.

-Sun Tsu “The Art of War”

If we can take the enemy’s money in return for something that is of no threat to us, I say go for it.

Deplete the enemy’s resources to enrich ourselves.

Jones Zemkophill on February 22, 2007 at 7:29 PM

On the surface this sounds like a terrible idea, but I read a great article a while back by the War Nerd about why this sort of thing may just be a great plan.

The one element of Venezuela’s armed forces most friendly to US interests is their Air Force. They’re the guys who get trips to florida for training, sit in the bars with our contractors, make business deals for parts, and generally pal around with Americans simply for their survival. They went to russia recently to buy weaponry soley so Chavez could have some forces broken of the contact with the US on whom he could rely.

Us selling F16 parts to Venezuela is really like funding an anti-Chavez insurgency.

askheaves on February 22, 2007 at 9:11 PM

And this car runs great. $500

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 9:17 PM

And this car runs great. $500

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 9:17 PM

Hmmm, we probably can’t do that to them… but how about parts that “Work fine” or are “Improved Alloys” but just so happen to also give the F-16s increased Radar Cross Sections.

Jones Zemkophill on February 22, 2007 at 9:27 PM

Look…..

good parts bad parts still parts…

You want to know what obsolete aircraft and weapons systems can do? Ask the British Navy around Port Stanley.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 9:32 PM

Port Stanley

Jones Zemkophill on February 22, 2007 at 9:42 PM

The Falklands War….the Argentine Air Force was using A-4s
1960s technology against the British Fleet.

According to GlobalSecurity: Despite high-tech shipboard AAW defenses and the partially successful use of Sea Harriers in an air-to-air fleet defense role, the British Navy always remained on the defensive against Argentinean airpower. Argentinean attack aircraft hit approximately 75 percent of British surface ships with bombs.

So you wanna sell them this stuff to be ‘smart’…yeah right…we might stop em…but can the Columbians? Panamanians?

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 9:46 PM

Didn’t someone say the same things about Japan during the 1930s?

- The Cat

MirCat on February 22, 2007 at 9:54 PM

The Falklands War….the Argentine Air Force was using A-4s
1960s technology against the British Fleet.

According to GlobalSecurity: Despite high-tech shipboard AAW defenses and the partially successful use of Sea Harriers in an air-to-air fleet defense role, the British Navy always remained on the defensive against Argentinean airpower. Argentinean attack aircraft hit approximately 75 percent of British surface ships with bombs.

So you wanna sell them this stuff to be ’smart’…yeah right…we might stop em…but can the Columbians? Panamanians?

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 9:46 PM

No. You are missing my point.

I want to sell them the parts because it is better if they are using aircraft I know we can defeat than some advanced MiGs that could give us trouble.

For Instance: The MiG 35

Every Dollar they spend on aging F-16s is a Dollar they can not use to buy more advanced fighters. Fighters that can easily take out our F-18s, are a fair match against our F-15, and may even be a match against the JSF

Further, Would you rather Venezulan money be going to fund the Russian Fighter Industry, or the American Fighter Industry?

And on an important note, those so-called anti aircraft defenses you speak of from the Faulkland war, were a joke. The british had no Long Ranger intercept missiles, and no advanced radar.

With Aegis, SM2, Phalanx, and TLCM, one Arliegh Burke Class DDG is worth several dozen ships from the british fleet of the 1980′s.

Jones Zemkophill on February 22, 2007 at 10:16 PM

Whoops, forgot that past sentence.

So you wanna sell them this stuff to be ’smart’…yeah right…we might stop em…but can the Columbians? Panamanians?

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 9:46 PM

Two words for you:

Monroe Doctrine.

Jones Zemkophill on February 22, 2007 at 10:18 PM

Two words for you:

Monroe Doctrine.

Has nothing to do with Western Hemisphere states at war with each other. Back at ya.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 10:22 PM

Has nothing to do with Western Hemisphere states at war with each other. Back at ya.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 10:22 PM

So you’re saying that The US would not intervene militarily if Chavez bombed another country?

Jones Zemkophill on February 22, 2007 at 10:26 PM

Hahahahahahaha

I dunno, ask the Honorable Sheila Jackson-Lee and her party.

I don’t dispute that our technology is better…by far….
but it makes no sense, at all, to supply the Chavez government with ANY military help. 24 F16s isn’t going to generate squat in the was of income for Houston. There are 6000 F16s in use in countries we don’t have to worry about.
Supply them. Screw Chavez.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 10:32 PM

Oh and by the way Jones: Chavez bought 24 Su-30k Flankers.
Not Mig-35s. Ask the Indian Air Force how long it has taken them to get them up to snuff.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 10:54 PM

I reply that:

[I]n all fighting, the direct method may be used for joining battle, but indirect methods will be needed in order to secure victory.

Indirect tactics, efficiently applied, are inexhaustible as Heaven and Earth, unending as the flow of rivers and streams; like the sun and moon, they end but to begin anew; like the four seasons, they pass away to return once more….

[A] wise general makes a point of foraging
on the enemy. One cartload of the enemy’s provisions
is equivalent to twenty of one’s own, and likewise
a single picul of his provender is equivalent to twenty
from one’s own store.

-Sun Tsu “The Art of War”

And by these words I fight. I am not an “Honorable Frontal Assault” guy. I believe in using stealth and guile to weaken opponents so that they either choose not to fight OR if they fight, they have already been rendered outmatched.

To say the F-16s would be useful to Chavez would indeed be accurate. However, against the US Military, an F-16 against a JSF or F-22 would be as effective as a P-51 against an F-86.

If Venezuela had no other option for Fighters, then I would agree with not selling them anything.

BUT in the real world where Russia is willing to sell anyone anything if they have the money, any chance we have to prevent that should be taken.

Jones Zemkophill on February 22, 2007 at 10:54 PM

Yeah Jones…..right….guess that is why the U.S. Air Force still has over 2000 F16s in inventory. Nostalgia.

Glad you aren’t in the State Department. We might invoke the Monroe Doctrine on Canada or something.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 11:01 PM

It might be time to question someone’s patriotism.

Patriotism questioned. Done.

Jackson Lee described Venezuela as a friendly nation that the U.S. should cooperate with and said that the F-16 jets, which are built in Texas, was an issue of concern to her constituents in Houston.

Friendly nations’ leaders call the leaders of nations they are friends with “the devil”? News to me.

RightWinged on February 22, 2007 at 11:08 PM

Yeah Jones…..right….guess that is why the U.S. Air Force still has over 2000 F16s in inventory. Nostalgia.

Glad you aren’t in the State Department. We might invoke the Monroe Doctrine on Canada or something.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 11:01 PM

No, The Airforce has over 2000 F16s because they make a solid ground attack fighter that can defend itself from most fighter threats… and we already have them.

But here you prove my point for me When Chavez was denied US parts he went ahead ane bought some Su-30k Flankers.

Guess what. They’re better than F-16s.

So either we keep him in F-16s, or he upgrades.

Obviously any fighter is deadly. The Red Barron’s Bi-Plane could kill someone in a Cessna even today.

But you have a choice: keep Chavez from Upgrading by soaking up his funds OR force him to upgrade. To me, the concequences of him upgrading AND giving that money to our rivals represents the worse option of the two.

Jones Zemkophill on February 22, 2007 at 11:09 PM

Jones….you actually posted as your ‘proof’ war game analysis from the Iran Defense Forum?????….

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 11:26 PM

It is not the airplane it is the pilot.

See Boyd of OODA fame.

MSimon on February 22, 2007 at 11:32 PM

Jones….you actually posted as your ‘proof’ war game analysis from the Iran Defense Forum?????….

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 11:26 PM

Actually it’s an article from The Christian Science Monitor.

Are saying that the F-16 is superior to the Su-30k?

Jones Zemkophill on February 22, 2007 at 11:34 PM

I suggest you check your link.

You want to sell to Chavez…pick up the phone.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 11:38 PM

I suggest you check your link.

You want to sell to Chavez…pick up the phone.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 11:38 PM

Okay, a More Direct Link for you.

Now, it is fine to attack an indirect sourcing, but the implication was that the point was incorrect.

When Chavez was denied US parts he went ahead ane bought some Su-30k Flankers.

They’re better than F-16s.

Therefore you have a choice:

Option #1 Keep Chavez from Upgrading by soaking up his funds with F-16 parts.

OR

Option #2 Force him to upgrade.

To me, the concequences of him upgrading AND giving that money to our rivals represents the worse option of the two.

Jones Zemkophill on February 22, 2007 at 11:43 PM

I’ll make sure I pass that along to the Honorable Sheila Jackson-Lee for ya Jones. I’m sure she will agree with you.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 11:45 PM

So back to your link….So the CSM article is accurate because it used the Iran Defense Forum source? Is that what you are saying?

And to quote your quote:[I]n all fighting, the direct method may be used for joining battle, but indirect methods will be needed in order to secure victory.-Sun Tsu “The Art of War”—-

hmmmmmm wonder if we mighta sandbagged that exercise? Nah…couldn’t be.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 11:53 PM

I’ll make sure I pass that along to the Honorable Sheila Jackson-Lee for ya Jones. I’m sure she will agree with you.

Limerick on February 22, 2007 at 11:45 PM

Interesting. You can’t win in a debate against my point about which option is better or worse, so you try to associate me with an incompetent bufoon like Sheila Jackson-Lee.

She wants “Better relations with Chavez”

For me “Better relations with Chavez” would mean “We Killed Him and gave him a nice tombstone.”

The fact is that Rep. Jackson-Lee is making the Right choice but for the wrong reason. It happens. A Broken Analog Clock is correct twice a day.

Apparently, the same can be said for Democrats.

Jones Zemkophill on February 22, 2007 at 11:53 PM

Look Jones….I enjoyed the joust. You and I aren’t that different. I understand your argument. I disagree with it.
The operational capabilities of his F16s are now. Not 09, or 10, now. Anything we can do to screw with those capabilities, and his credibility, is worth it. If all the weapon systems you listed are as good as you claim then those 24 Su-30k’s are just another target.

So as for not ‘winning the debate’…..Bahahahahahahahahahaha

Limerick on February 23, 2007 at 12:03 AM

Look Jones….I enjoyed the joust. You and I aren’t that different. I understand your argument. I disagree with it.
The operational capabilities of his F16s are now. Not 09, or 10, now. Anything we can do to screw with those capabilities, and his credibility, is worth it. If all the weapon systems you listed are as good as you claim then those 24 Su-30k’s are just another target.

So as for not ‘winning the debate’…..Bahahahahahahahahahaha

Limerick on February 23, 2007 at 12:03 AM

I apologise, I believe that there must be a mis-understanding here.

I thought that this topic was a question of which option was better or worse.

Whether we:

#1 Sell F-16 parts to Chavez at a premium. Thereby preventing him from upgrading his airforce by soaking up his military funds, and directing those funds to the American Defense Industry.

OR

#2 We Stop selling Chavez F-16 parts, and he uses his funds to upgrade to SU-30s or even more superior aircraft that pose a greater threat to our own fighters, AND in buying those fighters, supplying our strategic competitors (the Chinese and the Russians) with funds for their defense industries.

But then again, this nation IS concerned with instant gratification without any consideration for long term planning.

My Mistake.

Jones Zemkophill on February 23, 2007 at 12:12 AM

Spare parts for his 24 F16s are hardly going to ‘soak up his military funds’. Gimme a break.

When those Ruskie birds start falling outta the sky THAT will soak up his military funds. Spare parts? I’m sure that booming Russian economy can keep him fixed up just fine. In the mean time I’ll go with what MSimon said above:

It is not the airplane it is the pilot.

Goodnight Jones. I’ll leave you with the last word.

Limerick on February 23, 2007 at 12:22 AM

Spare parts for his 24 F16s are hardly going to ’soak up his military funds’. Gimme a break.

When those Ruskie birds start falling outta the sky THAT will soak up his military funds. Spare parts? I’m sure that booming Russian economy can keep him fixed up just fine. In the mean time I’ll go with what MSimon said above:

It is not the airplane it is the pilot.
Goodnight Jones. I’ll leave you with the last word.

Limerick on February 23, 2007 at 12:22 AM

The Combat aircraft of Venezeula
18 F-5
17 Mirage III
18 F-16
24 Su-30 (4 delivered)

Do I think we could soak up Chavez’ military funds with spare parts for a quarter of his Combat Airforce?

YES.

Chavez simply doesn’t have the budget of the USA.

The GDP of Venezuela is roughly that of Iowa.

As for Pilots, They are Human.

And it is only arrogance to think that a human from another country can not train up to the level of a US Pilot simply because he was born somewhere else.

Every Dollar he spends on aging F-16s is a Dollar Chavez cannot use to buy more advanced fighters. Fighters that can easily take out our F-18s, are a fair match against our F-15, and may even be a match against the JSF.

Do we:

#1 Sell F-16 parts to Chavez at a premium? Thereby preventing him from A: upgrading his airforce by soaking up his military funds, and B: directing those funds to the American Defense Industry.

OR

#2 We Stop selling Chavez F-16 parts? forcing him to A: use his funds to upgrade to SU-30s or even more superior aircraft that pose a greater threat to our own fighters, AND B: in buying those fighters, supplying our strategic competitors (the Chinese and the Russians) with funds for their defense industries?

I would rather we prevent Chavez from upgrading by soaking up his funds. And yes, Venezuela is a small enough country for us to be able to do just that.

Jones Zemkophill on February 23, 2007 at 12:49 AM

Oops,

A Mistake in the count of Aircraft due to intra Series Designations:

Make that total
24 F-16s
47 Mirages
44 F5s
24 Su-30 (4 delivered)

Make that a fifth of Chavez’ active airforce rather than a fourth.

Jones Zemkophill on February 23, 2007 at 1:09 AM

I’m with you Jones.

As I linked above, there is one bastion of non-anti-Americanism in the Venezuelan armed forces, it’s their Air Force. An Air Force cannot survive without strong relations with their suppliers (e.g., us). An Air Force dependant on the US for the parts, training, technical expertise is not a threat to us. Iranian F14s started falling out of the sky when they went up against Iraq (our ally) in the 80′s.

A Venezuelan Air Force also going to be resentful of any dictatorial leader who would treat them as anything less than the elite they really are. They’re going to be less willing to leap to the will of a tyrant at odds with their best friends simply as a matter of survival.

askheaves on February 23, 2007 at 3:28 AM

What cave have some of you been living in? This isn’t about money for the Texas economy, this is about a pukebag dem screwing around with the Bush foreign policy. You don’t give idiots like chavez what he needs UNTIL he gives you what you demand. He did this exact same thing with low cost oil going to america as a tool to embarass Bush.

What is wrong with you people?

csdeven on February 23, 2007 at 7:11 AM

Houston is not the city of oil rich urban cowboys anymore, it’s now the city of by the number liberals like Lee. It’s basically a scummier version of extremely liberal Austin Tx. And because of that, Houston is quickly becoming a city no one wants to deal with.

forged rite on February 22, 2007 at 2:55 PM

Now, ya’ll be nice about Houston. I was born and raised there. It might have some warts, but it’s my hometown. be nice.

pullingmyhairout on February 23, 2007 at 8:39 AM

Yes, it’s the old,”Let’s just talk to our enemies and give them a big group hug strategy”. Of course history has shown just how well that strategy works.

vcferlita on February 23, 2007 at 9:11 AM

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