Terry Moran on Giuliani: Too black, too strong

posted at 5:49 pm on February 18, 2007 by Allahpundit

If the Democrats don’t nominate Obama, does that mean they’re racist? Nah. If the GOP doesn’t nominate Rudy, does that mean they’re racist? Maybe!

I’ve been wondering how we were going to get demagogued on race now that Condi’s out. Moran finds a hole and runs for daylight:

Who counts as white in America has been a fluid concept in our history, and Italians have only recently–and perhaps incompletely in some quarters–been admitted to the racial club…

But that’s a done deal for Italian-Americans, long ago. They’re white–now. But the question for Giuliani is whether there is some shadow, some echo of the old attitudes in how some voters might approach his candidacy…

This is a party, after all, that has nominated precisely one ethnic immigrant candidate for national office in its history–Greek-American Spiro Agnew (the Roosevelts and Eisenhowers had been in America for centuries). Republicans have never nominated a Catholic for national office…

Look at a map of the 2004 election results, county by county. What you see is a nation divided by diversity. Rudy Giuliani’s candidacy challenges that division, and raises the question: Is he white enough?

So the Giuliani candidacy might tell us something about today’s Republican Party. And about America.

In other words, if conservatives don’t vote for the pro-choice, pro-gay, twice-divorced, open-borders candidate, it’s quite possibly because they fear the Eye-talian. Exit question for our southern readers, since that’s clearly whom Moran has in mind: Is he right? Is Rudy a wee bit too “ethnic,” notwithstanding his anti-mafia crusade as U.S. Attorney and the right’s cult of Scalia among judicial appointees? Bonus exit question: As a fellow Eye-talian, does this mean I’m officially a “brown person”?

Update: Bonus bonus exit question: Does Rudy have a political death wish?


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Comments

Exit question for our southern readers, since that’s clearly whom Moran has in mind: Is he right?
Ever seen My Cousin Vinnie? It ain’t a documentary.

Ali-Bubba on February 18, 2007 at 5:57 PM

And neither is Deliverance.

Ali-Bubba on February 18, 2007 at 5:58 PM

Without us, republicans wouldn’t have hardly any senate or house seats. NE republicans have 1 house seat left. How many senate seats? About the same? Everyone laughs at us till they need our vote.

And you ask if someone is too brown and impugn us? We feel the love.

No. you’re welcome. Really.

lorien1973 on February 18, 2007 at 6:05 PM

The past concern with Italian politicians was that they might be mobbed up. You could never say that about Rudy. Dolled up? Maybe.

Valiant on February 18, 2007 at 6:09 PM

Allah, I would really hate to be you. Are you ever happy about anyone or anything?

Jim-Rose on February 18, 2007 at 6:16 PM

Allah, I would really hate to be you. Are you ever happy about anyone or anything?

Er, yeah. What did I say here to make you think otherwise? This is Moran’s argument, folks, not mine.

Allahpundit on February 18, 2007 at 6:19 PM

Are they (the Left) that desperate already?

SouthernGent on February 18, 2007 at 6:30 PM

This is Moran’s argument, folks, not mine.

Yep. But you are giving tacit approval of it. By, even sarcastically, wondering if he is right or not. There are quite a few ways to approach this column and commentary on it. But I’m just a dumb hick, what do I know.

lorien1973 on February 18, 2007 at 6:31 PM

Er, yeah. What did I say here to make you think otherwise? This is Moran’s argument, folks, not mine.

Allahpundit on February 18, 2007 at 6:19 PM

Given your tendency to pessimism I had assumed you were Jewish and/or an old lady.

I better shut up now before I get banned.

Bill C on February 18, 2007 at 6:34 PM

Yep. But you are giving tacit approval of it.

I am? Quote: “I’ve been wondering how we were going to get demagogued on race now that Condi’s out.” On what planet does that indicate tacit approval?

Allahpundit on February 18, 2007 at 6:35 PM

Given your tendency to pessimism I had assumed you were Jewish and/or an old lady.

Hehehe. Only in spirit.

Allahpundit on February 18, 2007 at 6:35 PM

Heh.. from the FARCE News network…

spmat on February 18, 2007 at 6:41 PM

Honestly, a persons race or ethnic background doesn’t enter my mind, it is thier character that counts.

Sven on February 18, 2007 at 6:43 PM

or spelling their
Allah,
You need spell check here.

Sven on February 18, 2007 at 6:46 PM

As a southerner of Mediterranean (including Italian) extraction (not like that really matters anyway), I don’t think anyone around here would really care about Giulani not being “white” enough. Of course he’s white. I don’t think Rudy comes across as “ethnic,” and even if he did, that might make him even more popular. Who knows? Either way, it’s not an issue, at least not the kind Moran wants it made out to be.

Chris L. on February 18, 2007 at 6:51 PM

Short answer No! No more then Romney being a Mormon is. For southerners Romney’s biggest liability is being a former governor of MA and for Giulianni it is his stance on gun control.
It is time for the Dems to be reminded that it is not Republicans who steal financial data on opponents or label any African American who has an (R) behind their name as Aunt Jemina, Uncle Tom or other such slurs.

LakeRuins on February 18, 2007 at 6:52 PM

As a damn Yankee now in the South for a total of 23 years (after spending the first 18 in Jersey), I don’t know if I qualify as a “southerner’s opinoin”. I feel I do, so I’ll state whats been said by others. I don’t care if he’s Italian or Catholic (I’m the latter). I care how he stands on 1) national security 2) tax issues and 3)special interest groups. Those are the three most important issues to me in any Presidential candidate, and whichever one comes closest to my views with respect to those three subjects, wins my vote. Anything else is just lesser issues to me and I won’t allow those lesser issues to prevent me from voting for the others.

rayvet on February 18, 2007 at 6:55 PM

Thomas Jefferson once said, ‘We should never judge a president by his age, only by his works.’ And ever since he told me that, I stopped worrying.

Ronald Reagan

In other words judge a candidate by his works not by his age, race or any other political BS.

F15Mech on February 18, 2007 at 6:58 PM

It is Dems who must pigeon hole people into some sort of group identity. Republicans don’t look at groups but rather individual accomplishments.
Somewhere far off in the distant I can faintly hear those words “When a man will be judged by the content of his character, not the color of his skin”. For all of the liberals handwringing and sad puppy dog eyes when they talk about “feeling your pain”, or it’s all about the [fill in your group identity here]the Dems are the worlds biggest hypocrites when it comes to this simple test.

LakeRuins on February 18, 2007 at 7:02 PM

I don’t mean any offense, Allah. I love Hot Air, but you do have the pessimism of an old Jewish woman, which can be maddening at times.

But that aside, keep up the good work!

Jim-Rose on February 18, 2007 at 7:08 PM

The heritage of the Italian people is steeped in CULTURE. Even members of the Mafia wore Italian silk suits for chrys sake. Italy is hardly a third world country. These are standards I have long aspired to in my career in the building trades. That being said, for Moran to dredge up old stereotypical profiling rhetoric, is exposing his own personal view. Moran being Irish is part of the attack machine driving public opinion against Italians in the Northeast for decades. I being from NJ,and having lived in FL since 1976, presently reside in Central FL within the Bible belt. I am of Italian decent and hope Guiliani doesn’t get the nomination, because of his liberal stance on numerous issues. Unless he were committed to wiping out the likes of the muslim underground, MS-13, illegal aliens, and the whole of the islamic indoctrination of the US. Mabey he’s read ‘Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff’. Their here and they AIN’Tqueer!

sonnyspats1 on February 18, 2007 at 7:13 PM

Oh, crap.. I meant to put that comment in the fauxtography thread.

Anyway, about the last question (the only interesting one), Rudy is a fool for ignoring the evangelicals. He’d do much better to engage them directly, even if only to disagree with their positions. To snub them will just build resentment, which the Republican party cannot afford to do to its historically most loyal and hard-working subgroup.

If Rudy thinks he can win in ’08 without the conservative Christian vote, he should look at the ’06 elections. Equally important as the votes he’d lose from the social cons are the campaign volunteers he’d never have to win anyone else. Why would you want to work for a candidate that has open and public contempt for you? Disagreement is fine and can be worked around with particular cabinet and advisory picks, but open contempt cannot be negotiated and is suicide.

I should think the man doesn’t hold social cons in contempt, but I really don’t know now.

spmat on February 18, 2007 at 7:18 PM

Besides I am getting tired of the antique media telling me what should be important about a candidate. Who made them the decider on what is important? Just give the information and I will somehow try to digest it and make up my own mind thank you.

LakeRuins on February 18, 2007 at 7:19 PM

Is Moran making generalizations about Italian-Americans?

Great…this means another cr*ppy Sopranos episode written by Michael Imperioli.

Slublog on February 18, 2007 at 7:44 PM

Guiliani is as Italian as Chef Boyardee. As a half-guinea myself, his status as a gunbanner is much more important to me.

PeteRR on February 18, 2007 at 7:45 PM

Exit question for our southern readers, since that’s clearly whom Moran has in mind: Is he right? Is Rudy a wee bit too “ethnic,” notwithstanding his anti-mafia crusade as U.S. Attorney and the right’s cult of Scalia among judicial appointees?

Well, I’ll answer as a Southern California, yeah, he is too “ethnic”, he is a New Yorker…..

Bonus exit question: As a fellow Eye-talian, does this mean I’m officially a “brown person”?

Depends if your Northern Italian or Sicilian, didn’t you see True Romance, the scene where Dennis Hopper is about to be whacked……. “you know, Sicilians were conquered by the Moores,…… and……”

PinkyBigglesworth on February 18, 2007 at 7:58 PM

Guiliani is as Italian as Chef Boyardee.

PeteRR on February 18, 2007 at 7:45 PM

NOooooooo……! First no Santa Claus now this. Chef Boyardee is not Italian! NOoooo…..!

sonnyspats1 on February 18, 2007 at 8:03 PM

Jeez, the Moran piece almost reads like Woltz’ rant prior to waking up with Khartoum’s head as a footrest. As a white Hispanic, I’m never surprised at the left’s need to divide, conquer, and compartmentalize, for the pursuit of their own twisted ends. However, even by their standards, this piece is lame. It’s as if Moran wants to outbid Stanley Crouch in the racial purity sweepstakes. Heh. Wait’ll they get a load of me.

Kid from Brooklyn on February 18, 2007 at 8:12 PM

Depends if your Northern Italian or Sicilian, didn’t you see True Romance, the scene where Dennis Hopper is about to be whacked……. “you know, Sicilians were conquered by the Moores,…… and……”

PinkyBigglesworth on February 18, 2007 at 7:58 PM

Speaking as a blue eyed blond Sicilian last name SPATARO, yeah I saw the movie it was a ballsy scene by Hopper one of his best. Just as ballsy was the part where Christopher Walkens character had him executed for sayin it!

sonnyspats1 on February 18, 2007 at 8:13 PM

Moran and those who think that ethnicity is the determining factor in Presidential selection are seeing the election through their own eyes – not the nation’s. I believe that the President will be selected based on values and positions, not on identification with ethnic groups.

A Catholic was not selected by the Republicans for the same reason a Muslim is not acceptable: it is widely believed that their allegiance is primarily to leaders of their faith and not the best interests of our nation.

If the Republicans want to win they have to accept one fact: To tip the balance of power in their favor they must favor the common man and the nation, and not the interests of corporate and wealthy individuals at the expense of the rest of us. If they concede this value they can win. If they do not concede this issue they will surely loose after having 8 years of Bush.

The Democrats see this issue and have already begun positioning themselves accordingly. It would be of great benefit for Republicans who aspire for the Presidency to pay close attention to Lou Dobb’s views on the current assault on the middle class.

omegaram on February 18, 2007 at 8:20 PM

Is he right? Is Rudy a wee bit too “ethnic,” notwithstanding his anti-mafia crusade as U.S. Attorney and the right’s cult of Scalia among judicial appointees?

Are you kidding? Is he? I’m stunned that anybody could bring this out as a serious argument. His premise is flawed–he’s using “white” when he means “culturally mainstreamed.” Kinda like this: “I don’t hire Irish!!” said to one of the whitest-skinned races in the world in years gone by.

In the immortal strains of the best song South Park ever put out: “Dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-duuuuummb!”

–Anwyn, paleface of Scottish and Irish extraction and Appalachian forebears.

Anwyn on February 18, 2007 at 8:20 PM

A Jewish old lady, I would have guessed.

MarcH on February 18, 2007 at 8:28 PM

I love Hot Air, but you do have the pessimism of an old Jewish woman, which can be maddening at times.

Damn. That never occurred to me. I mean the “old … woman” part. I kind of figured Allah was Jewish, too. Not because he’s pessimistic, but because he’s so funny.

Also, the heartsick-for-Kristen thing — that was very Jewish, specifically Woody Allen-ish. You’d never see Pacino or De Niro letting some dame get under his skin like that. Joe Pesci or Danny De Vito, maybe …

Ali-Bubba on February 18, 2007 at 8:43 PM

Guiliani is as Italian as Chef Boyardee.

PeteRR on February 18, 2007 at 7:45 PM

Chef Boyardee WAS REAL, and he was Italian!
Ettore (Hector) Boiardi (October 22, 1897 – June 21, 1985) was born in Piacenza, Italy, and arrived, at age 16, at Ellis Island on 9 May 1914. He opened his first restaurant, Il Giardino d’Italia, in Cleveland, Ohio in 1926. His spaghetti sauce was so popular that in 1928 he began canning it. The rest is history.

Ali-Bubba on February 18, 2007 at 8:50 PM

Depends if your Northern Italian or Sicilian, didn’t you see True Romance, the scene where Dennis Hopper is about to be whacked……. “you know, Sicilians were conquered by the Moores,…… and……”

Content warning:racially charged language.

aengus on February 18, 2007 at 9:11 PM

Wow, folks really piling on AP here. Asking a question is no indicator of his opinion, don’t read one into the other. I appreciate AP bringing up Moran’s quest for outrage aimed at Republicans. Why isn’t it fair of him to bring up his exit question(s) over it?

The media will point fingers all they want over every tiny thing they can to make conservatives look like bigots. To remind them of things like Bush’s cabinet being far more diverse than Clinton’s ever was doesn’t count. They’ll just move to the next target, like wondering if Republicans would ever nominate [insert name of any group Republicans have never nominated], and they score. And they get a bonus score if that group isn’t nominated this time.

It’s about attack politics, and nothing else. Moran is merely a willing and paid hatchetman for the left.

Freelancer on February 18, 2007 at 9:16 PM

I’m from NYC and moved to the South. What do Southerners know or care about Italians? Isn’t that a New York thing?

This is clearly wishful thinking on Moran’s part.

Buy Danish on February 18, 2007 at 9:47 PM

I was once stunned to learn of the number of Presidents who are Episcopalian, given that — in my Christianist world — the Episcopal church is just to the left of Mao. (For G-d’s sake, they have a Bishop who doesn’t believe in God, and thinks Jesus Christ was a pretty good guy, and another one who is gay.)

And, yet, their Washington cathedral is referred to as our National Cathedral. Sure, if you’re an atheist.

With all that in mind, I think you will be hard pressed to find an actual Christian of any size, shape, color, or denomination that the religious right will not support.

(Key Word: actual)

Jaibones on February 18, 2007 at 10:26 PM

Ali-Bubba,

Have you eaten any of that alleged Italian’s macaroni in a can? Tomato soup on egg noodles tastes better.

PeteRR on February 18, 2007 at 11:15 PM

Terry can’t even get is ‘feigned outrage as elitist news analysis’ entirely accurate.

William Miller, Barry Goldwater’s running mate, was Catholic.

Charles Curtis, Herbert Hoover’s running mate and 31st VP, was part American Indian and spent most his first 13 years living on a reservation.

So Terry can go ask the Dem’s how many candidates of non-european ethnicity have they ever nominated for “national office”, much less elected?

This is typical of a reporter not fact-checking his “fake but accurate” reality and just as typical of a reporter throwing stones and blaming the ensuing fight on someone else.

Dusty on February 18, 2007 at 11:19 PM

Forgive me folks, I should remind myself to turn on the “Sarcasim” tag every time I add to this forum…

As for me, I jest,….. I am a Citizens of the United States, born and bred, my parents, the same, my Grand Parents, landed on a boat in New York, from Italy….

and as for:

Content warning:racially charged language.

aengus on February 18, 2007 at 9:11 PM

FABULOUS…, thanks for the link.

PinkyBigglesworth on February 18, 2007 at 11:24 PM

But that’s a done deal for Italian-Americans, long ago. They’re white–now.

Good grief – what decade is Terry Moran living in? For his next story, perhaps he’ll suggest that blacks should be allowed to sit at the front of the bus. Ooooh…that’ll really stir the pot.

Come on. Take a story angle that is, at the very least, RELEVANT!

thedecider on February 18, 2007 at 11:35 PM

Bonus bonus exit question: Does Rudy have a political death wish?

an excerpt…

…is Rudy playing the smart card, letting the other candidates fight over the evangelical vote-and keeping himself clean from association with the far-right fringe in the process-hoping that he could hold all the cards at nomination time?

Wasn’t this his strategy when running for Mayor of New York? I believe it was. So, is it possible for a Republican candidate to win without seeking the backing of the religious right? I think it is. Unlike some in the media, I don’t see the religious right (being a member, myself) as joining together in group think. The religious right has it’s political causes to be sure. But given a choice between a conservative and a liberal democrat, they will choose the conservative. At least in the circles I’m around.

thedecider on February 18, 2007 at 11:40 PM

Bonus bonus exit question: Does Rudy have a political death wish?

Me thinks he is letting this play out two years before a vote, by then, old news……….

I am sure the AQ and the AP will bring up something else….

PinkyBigglesworth on February 19, 2007 at 12:03 AM

FABULOUS…, thanks for the link.

You’re welcome.

aengus on February 19, 2007 at 12:08 AM

As a Southern reader, I think that’s totally ridiculous. Any disagreements I have with Rudy are on policy.

As for the Religious Broadcasters Meeting, this quote is just really reveals how little the author understands evangelicals:

evangelicals tend to vote as their leaders suggest

Now there’s some real stereotyping going on!

INC on February 19, 2007 at 12:27 AM

This is a party, after all, that has nominated precisely one ethnic immigrant candidate for national office in its history–Greek-American Spiro Agnew (the Roosevelts and Eisenhowers had been in America for centuries). Republicans have never nominated a Catholic for national office…

Well, that’s not very surprising when you think about it, because “ethnic immigrants” aren’t Constitutionally eligible to hold the Presidency, even as naturalized citizens. Ask Arnold about that, Terry.

Also, it’s just plain wrong:

Goldwater was born in Phoenix in 1909, when Arizona was known as the Arizona Territory. His grandfather was an immigrant from Poland who founded a department store chain, Goldwater’s Department Store. His father was born Jewish and converted to the Episcopal Church to marry his fiancee.

see-dubya on February 19, 2007 at 12:49 AM

I am a Southerner who has been living in NYC for 38 years…I was about to shed this City like a snake sheds its dead skin until Rudy finally rescued it from the great, in his own mind, ‘Gen. Dinkins’…I am also a Catholic and a member of the NRA…all that said, I would crawl over broken glass to vote for Rudy over anyone else in the field !

DoctorDentons on February 19, 2007 at 6:16 AM

You know, there isn’t much difference between an old Jewish lady and an old Italian lady…!!!!!!!

msflea on February 19, 2007 at 7:54 AM

I’m glad Moran told me that Rudy is actually a pearly shade of off-white or I might have accidentally voted for him. Terry Moran is my hero!

On a side note, I find it interesting that all us Nazis on the right are suddenly too scared of brown people to vote for an Italian, while Hitler didn’t seem to have any similar problem when deciding Japanese and Italians would be perfect additions to the Axis. I’m probably just confused though and Italian actually equals brown… I should save all these pesky historical details till after the cross burning.

Lehosh on February 19, 2007 at 9:20 AM

msflea…It’s all in the size of the moustache.

DoctorDentons on February 19, 2007 at 9:52 AM

What a moron.

Ian on February 19, 2007 at 10:18 AM

As a fellow Eye-talian, does this mean I’m officially a “brown person”?

I think you should ask Obama or Sharpton if Italians have always been considered white. The answer, of course, would be: Yes, you are and always have been, white.

RedinBlueCounty on February 19, 2007 at 12:49 PM

The 3 most important issues to me:

1) National security – The candidate has to “get it”, this is a world war. It’s the jihadist’s war on non-beleivers, the globe over. It must be fought on a global front.
2) Immigration – It’s border security,and is deirectly linked to above. Plus we want to only allow people in our nation, that want to adopt our national identity, not bring their own, and insist it is superior.
3) Taxes Taxes Taxes – It’s the current federal income tax system, and it’s reforming social security.
4)JUDICIAL APPOINTMENTS – Just because I listed it 4th, doesn’t mean it is any less important than the three above it. If you want conservative government, you need conservative judges who interpret the law the way we think and live.

paulsur on February 19, 2007 at 1:02 PM

Oh, by the way, I’m a Texas Kracka, not that has got anything to do with it.

Go Romney! The Mormon Yankee Conservative Cowboy!

paulsur on February 19, 2007 at 1:06 PM

WOW – Another piece of trash dressed as an intellectual discussion. If someone with a Texas accent read this aloud listeners would attack – bigot-racist. These poor Italians – get it from all sides. What is interesting is that in New York Rudy was hardly embraced by African Americans. As he cleaned the streets of NY he was called a racist, facist and insensitive to the poor. I think this idiot should have consulted with fellow intellectual Al Sharpton before engaging in this rant.

iam7545 on February 19, 2007 at 2:00 PM

When JFK was nominated in 1960, he had to promise the Southern Baptists that he wouldn’t be too Catholic. Rudy has the exactly the opposite problem. But irony doesn’t lie in the fact that Kennedy was a Democrat and Giuliani is a Republican. The parties of today are very different than those of 1960. The only people who are trying to make race or religious affiliation a factor are the liberals in the MSM.

cmay on February 19, 2007 at 6:01 PM