This is hogwash – and you know it. The 11/9/2001 attacks were not the end of the misguided acts by ‘fundamentalist’ muslims – there have been incidents since and there will be more. The US led occupation has galvanised many – and it continues to do so.

To pretend that fundamentalist islamic factions have sprung up because of any one incident is nonsense. To understand the roots of ANY fundamentalist movement means understanding a much wider set of variables.

Without a shred of doubt, the US and the UK and ‘the west’ have contributed to, been one of the causes of, and been the predicate to muslim ‘fundamentalism’

And as for your ‘Muslim Brotherhood’ claim… Sheesh.

- The Cat

To flip it around for a minute, what do we suppose the reaction would be among “mainstream” Buddhists or Hindus if Christians of any denomination broke into a temple and massacred the people inside with bullets and grenades while shouting, “Christ is Great – Jesu Ackbar!”?

In a majority-Buddhist or majority-Hindu society, that is.

Hypothetical: what do we suppose would be the response among “mainstream” Christians if some Jehovah’s Witnesses or Amish broke into a mosque on a Friday and massacred the people inside with bullets and grenades while shouting, “Christ is King!”?

Spurius Ligustinus on February 1, 2007 at 4:18 PM

And Christians are in the majority in this country, so our willingness to check our own behavior would redound even more to our credit than if we were the minority in another land (the situation with Muslims in the West).

To flip it around for a minute, what do we suppose the reaction would be among “mainstream” Buddhists or Hindus if Christians of any denomination broke into a temple and massacred the people inside with bullets and grenades while shouting, “Christ is Great – Jesu Ackbar!”? Would we remotely expect special treatment for fellow Christians? Not on your life!

I think it’s pretty clear that the response would be widespread, loud and sustained condemnation from within the Christian community itself, coupled with efforts to “reach out” the to Mohammedan community.

Yes – either the Muslim community or whichever community was victimized by “our” crude offense, even though “we” weren’t to blame in the first place (the inverse of Christianity’s lack of collective mandate/responsibility for violent acts, just as the Muslim umma’s studied shunning of responsibility is the inverse of Islam’s actual culpability, responsibility, and collective mandate, for jihad).

Robert decides to use this small minority and try to paint a picture as if the entire message of that protest was based on “9/11 was an inside job”, which it isn’t.

I’m glad he talked about the Muslim Brotherhood. I think he should get into more detail to inform the public that Islamic terrorism happened way before Israel was made, and even in the 20s that Muslims did attack Jews in Jerusalem

I’ll ask again, and a little more clearly:
First, is the problem “Islamic Fundamentalists” … or is the problem just plain Islam?

This is a deep subject but if I may suggest that Robert Spencer’s book “The Truth about Muhammad” will answer your question. After you read the book and match it’s content with current information you perhaps will come to the same conclusion that I did: The Problem is definitely Islam and it’s fundamental teachings.

Also, since then, I have come to the conclusion that “moderate” Muslims are few and far between – the vast majority support the conversion, subjugation, or killing of “infidels” in one form or another. The topic of the “moderate” Muslim is deep water and I really really really wish Robert Spencer would address this topic directly. I would like to hear what he has to say.

seejanemom:
Congratulations? (I Think?) I don’t waste much time on reading Kos as I belive they are so misguided, ignorant, stupid, and biased to Left that they are a waste of time. I believe it is sufficent to know what “their number” is. Getting their attention, well, Congratulations?

And congratulations Jane!

JANE HAS MADE IT IN THE BLOGOSPHERE!

The Kos Kids have FOUND SEEJANEMOM! (This IS a link to DKos, so if you comment over there, feel free to go and back me up, if that thrills you.)

And in spite of the HUGE blogburst I am getting, they still can’t put together a cogent comment…very quiet…and VERY NUMEROUS.

I guess when you’re RIGHT, you’re RIGHT!

I just wanted to thank Michelle and Bryan, and yes, even old ALLAH up there for being the FABULOUS INSPIRATION for me!!

Love,
seejanemom

Nobody wants to say it, of course. About as non-PC as you can get. But if that’s what the book says – and a billion or so Muslims actually believe that – why do we cling to “fundamentalism” as a qualifier?

Professor Blather on February 1, 2007 at 4:00 PM

I don’t know why we cling to fundamentalism as the qualifier. The Quran says what it says.

Thing is that even though the Quran says what it says, not all Muslims are out trying to kill everyone.

Our problem then, is not whether they are fundamentalists but whether they are trying to kill us. The only ones I have a big problem with are the ones trying to murder me as an act of religious fervor.

“It seems to me that, sooner or later, we need to definitively decide if all of this is just a fringe group of radicals – or if Islam is itself fundamentally to blame.”

Professor Blather on February 1, 2007 at 12:04 PM

Interesting.

What’s most troubling in this regard isn’t so much the islamist fringe – we know what they’re thinking – as much as the lack of any real expression of outrage against the islamists by the rest of the Mohammedans.

Hypothetical: what do we suppose would be the response among “mainstream” Christians if some Jehovah’s Witnesses or Amish broke into a mosque on a Friday and massacred the people inside with bullets and grenades while shouting, “Christ is King!”?

I think it’s pretty clear that the response would be widespread, loud and sustained condemnation from within the Christian community itself, coupled with efforts to “reach out” the to Mohammedan community.

Not sullen silence. Not defensive murmurs about how we mustn’t see a “backlash” against non-Muslims. Not opinion polls showing that 15-25 percent of Christians surveyed agreed that the massacre was “justified.”

Non-hypothetical: When Japanese-Americans were treated with manifest injustice in WWII, herded into camps, for the most part their reaction was to redouble their commitment to show the rest of society that they were just as “American” as everybody else. The most tangible evidence they provided was the 442nd Regimental Combat Team, to this day still the most decorated unit in US Army history.

Yet what do we see from the Mohammedan community today? Even though they haven’t been treated nearly as unjustly as the Japanese-Americans were, instead of showing their commitment to their homeland we get: lectures from CAIR about how islamophobic our society is … taxi drivers who refuse to pick up passengers who don’t meet their non-alchoholic preferences … snipers shooting perfect strangers from a car trunk … terrorist cells in New York and Oregon … murders at an El Al ticket counter and a Jewish community center … Samuel el Arian raising money for Palestinian Islamic Jihad while masquerading as a college professor … and “The Flying Imams.”

God help us all if there’s another 9/11 (or worse) in this country or another Western society; but especially God help the Mohammedans, because for the most part when it comes to opposing the islamists in their midst they don’t seem to be doing a lot to help themselves.

Robert Spencer is absolutely correct and those who do not understand what he has been saying for years simply do not wish to hear or understand.

But, to get back to the point of Muslims…most rich Muslims are into sex, booze and good times, just not in their countries. Their women have always bought out Herrods and other “well known” stores throughout Europe. Their men don’t wait for the “virgins” in heaven…they enjoy them right here all the time. No one broadcasts it because they’d probably be killed!

How about the 16 year old girl just gang raped by 11 Muslim men as an “honor” thing. Tells a person alot about men when they use rape!!!!

It is a matter of acknowledging that what he says is quoted directly from the Quran, the doctrine of the Islamic Jihad against all non-Muslims.

We either take the Islamic fundamentalists at their word, or we don’t. But choosing not to believe them is not going to change their position regarding our conversion, dhimmitude, or death.

Lawrence on February 1, 2007 at 12:17 PM

I’ll ask again, and a little more clearly:

First, is the problem “Islamic Fundamentalists” … or is the problem just plain Islam?

If Islamic radicals are corrupting their religion, then they are the problem. But if the Koran clearly, explicitly calls for the conversion, subjugation, or death of non-Muslims (and yes, it does) – how do we logically escape the truth that Islam is, itself, the problem?

Nobody wants to say it, of course. About as non-PC as you can get. But if that’s what the book says – and a billion or so Muslims actually believe that – why do we cling to “fundamentalism” as a qualifier?

And since everyone will dance around that for a while (despite the logical trap you can’t escape), how about the more important question:

Whether it’s every Muslim on Earth or just a fringe of a couple million, what – exactly – do we do?

I’m just askin’. This debate is long on questions and short on answers.

Whether it’s believing that 9/11 was an inside job, or that they hate us for our Israel policy, or they hate us for the uber-skankery of Britney and Paris, it all comes down to believing that it’s somehow our fault and that Muslim hatred for the West is justified, and all we have to do is change our impeach Bush/change our policy/return to modesty – in other words, appease Islam – and all will be well. Nice and easy … if only it were so.

The “hard” way requires confronting the reality that their hatred has very deep and very old historical roots that stretch back to the religion’s founder and it’s holy book. It also requires confronting the fact that we will have to face them on multiple battlefields, both literal and ideological. But that will lead to so many unpleasant consequences, so many people would rather pretend that this is not the problem … to the detriment of all of us.

People once thought Hitler was just a crackpot who was no real threat, even as the evidence mounted that he was. How’d that work out? And what was it that they say about history repeating itself?

Robert Spenser of Jihad Watch answers this question on a video log at Hot Air. Spenser reminds us that the Quran (see 9:29) commands Muslims to offer infidels three choices; Conversion, dhimmitude or death.Hugh Fitzgerald says it’s the wrong question….

The Muslim is directed by their faith to convert, enslave, or kill all “infidels”. This is the issue and the reason that any who do not believe as they do have been fighting them for the last 1400 years. Their hatred and aggression is all about them and not those who they attempt to intimidate, enslave, murder, kill, rape, extort, and pillage from.

The question is when, when, when will the majority in the West wake up and see the Muslim for what they really are? When will the West defend themselves from the Islamic Assault? When will those in the West take aggressive action to confront the Muslim and the Islamic Assault?

The Left and the MSM that promote their agenda by distriubtion of their propaganda, focus their hatred and opposition to those on the right and ignore the real danger to our nation, citizens, and way of life. The Islamofacist is not our biggest probelm, it the Left who promotes their politically correct notions of multi-culturalim that support the Islamofacist.

OK, OK, the Islamist point about Britney Spears is, in fairness, well taken. But, instead of exploding our buildings and murdering women and children, wouldn’t it be easier to just not buy Britney Spears’ albums, and tune to another station when she comes on t.v.?

morganfrost on February 1, 2007 at 12:24 PM

Why settle for the album when you can have the Real Thing in Paradise? Definitely worth the extra effort… :-)