I’m with you on this whole killing the terrorists thing, but could you please keep Dobson the hell away from me and my porn?

Watcher on February 1, 2007 at 9:53 PM

I’m with you and Ritz, on getting together on this terrorist thing. I’ll leave you to thumb-wrestle the porn with Dobson later.

I’d suggest that you read the quoted comment again.

CZ52GUY on February 1, 2007 at 9:04 PM

I did. I am in agreement with you. My previous response was a reflection of me mixing up two different conversation. My apologies.

My big point is: if they’d focus their rage on the real enemy in concert with the Righties, we’d all live to have the porn argument another day.

Ritz… I agree with you that there is a tendency on the left to be overly-obsessed with attacking the religious beliefs of Republicans. About the best you can hope for with the far left is that they will only go so far as playing the moral relativism game, but all too often they go even further and outright apologize for (or deny the existence of) militant Islamists while attempting to make Christians (and Jews) out to be the greater threat.

That being said, I reject the false choice between a scenario where we are winning the war on terror but have James Dobson running every aspect of our personal lives, and a scenario where we are capitulating to our enemies while also having our economy destroyed by taxes and regulation.

I’m with you on this whole killing the terrorists thing, but could you please keep Dobson the hell away from me and my porn?

“Ours is a Christian army”; so he said
A regiment of bangomen who led.
“And ours a Christian navy,” added he
Who sailed a thunder-junk upon the sea.
Better they know than men unwarlike do
What is an army, and a navy too.
Pray God there may be sent them by-and-by
The knowledge what a Christian is, and why.
For somewhat lamely the conception runs
Of a brass-buttoned Jesus firing guns.

You are claiming Jesus is the creation. Jesus is claiming that he is the creator. If Jesus is the Creator as he claims, then he can very well define himself.

I’d suggest that you read the quoted comment again.

I’ll rephrase, Jesus contradicted the notion of being merely a human being. He said clearly, “I and my Father are one”. It was introduced into evidence against Him. The Roman Governor found no fault with Him. He was unjustly crucified because of that claim. A fate He foretold and embraced, rebuking Peter to put away his sword.

I concur that He claimed Creator status.

I’m amused when His creations seek to define Him as merely a human being, a “good guy”, and latch onto the water into wine account as endorsing abuse of alchohol.

When His ministry is examined in it’s entirety and when His essence it’s examined in light of the entirety of scripture, you end up with a picture very different than the “pacifist Jesus”.

He claimed co-existence as God. God cannot tolerate sin, but seeks reconciliation with sinners. He offered Himself as the ultimate sacrifice for sin, to build the bridge between His creation and the Creator.

Consistently over time, the created reject the simple gift, claim a pay grade status in excess of the Creator, and reject His existence, or His status.

It’s the ultimate in arrogance, and the zeal with which some seek to blow up the bridge and the airs of “intellectual superiority” are laughable.

I make no claims that Christ was merely a creation. I dispute any assertions that He was anything less that what He claimed to be.

On what basis does the creation arrive at these conclusions? Certainly Jesus had much to say about Himself, didn’t his contrary claims to His being “only human” result in His crucifixion?

Jesus was crucified because he claimed to be the creator, not the creation.

You are claiming Jesus is the creation. Jesus is claiming that he is the creator. If Jesus is the Creator as he claims, then he can very well define himself.

Let’s amplify your concerns and hypothesize that legislation handwritten by James Dobson himself has just been approved by the U.S. Congress and all porn, per Dr. Dobson’s definition, has been henceforth and forever banned. (I assume this is what you meant by “statist nonsense”.) How would that rank on a scale of national disasters?

If you feel this scenario is approximately as grave as we’ve-got-blood-enemies-doing-everything-in-their-power-to-take-as-many-of us-out-as-they-can, then you and the freaked-out left are kindred spirits on this one.

Which returns me to my disagreement with the other poster who felt that most people aren’t threatened by average evangelicals:

To [the Left] the problem is not with people who’ll cut your head off with pleasure, it’s with people who might cut off your pleasure

Progressives are so impassioned about protecting their porn rights, gay rights, pleasure-however-you-want-it rights that they regard the James Dobson’s of the world as a greater danger than people who actually would kill them for their pleasure choices. (Namely fundamentalist Jihadis). Alot of good their preferred method of gratification will do them when they’re dead!

My big point is: if they’d focus their rage on the real enemy in concert with the Righties, we’d all live to have the porn argument another day.

think Jesus was a human being. In fact, that’s his whole appeal – he was one of us. A decent guy by all accounts, and a passionate, charismatic type to boot. The life of the party. (insert obvious water/wine joke here)

And as a human, he had flaws. Because to be human is to be imperfect. I believe that Jesus existed and was a human being, and if he were alive today he would have been just as likely as any of us to champion an ignoble cause with the best of intentions.

I find it amusing that the creation never tires of trying to define the Creator. The whole “every tongue will confess” comes to mind…and then “cast not pearls before swine”.

On what basis does the creation arrive at these conclusions? Certainly Jesus had much to say about Himself, didn’t his contrary claims to His being “only human” result in His crucifixion?

“I think Jesus was a human being. In fact, that’s his whole appeal – he was one of us. A decent guy by all accounts, and a passionate, charismatic type to boot. The life of the party.”

But this is not what Jesus claimed himself to be. He claims to be human yes, but he also claims to be God.

Either He is right and is God, or he was wrong and was really just insane.

If Jesus was alive today indentifying himself as God incarnate, like he did then, telling off the government leaders and chasing priests out of their temples, you would probably have him arrested and committed.

You really think Jesus can be suckered into the Leftie double-talk that the State needs your property more than you do? Wouldn’t he just say, “Thief.”

I think Jesus was a human being. In fact, that’s his whole appeal – he was one of us. A decent guy by all accounts, and a passionate, charismatic type to boot. The life of the party. (insert obvious water/wine joke here)

And as a human, he had flaws. Because to be human is to be imperfect. I believe that Jesus existed and was a human being, and if he were alive today he would have been just as likely as any of us to champion an ignoble cause with the best of intentions.

I may even be guilty of that myself. On occasion. Very rarely. Ahem.

To the contrary, it generally doesn’t work out so well for murderous thugs…and those who attempt to wrap themselves in the “mantel of righteousness” (e.g. as an issuer of fatwas, UBL claims he does all of this in the name of his god), are described as hypocrits and dogs to their face (wow…not the man made Jesus but the real deal). Those that polluted the Temple with their presence and made it into a flea market were physically removed with a whip (sounds more like Jet Li than Ghandi to me).

I think the pay grade comment is the most applicable. It isn’t up to us to determine UBL’s eternal fate, but I don’t love him, don’t forgive him, and I have no qualms about risking anything permanent by not doing so.

To those that seek to deliver him to the justice he so desperately deserves…good hunting!

I’m not the one who compared looking at porn with being a child molester, that was Lawrence… but sure, I’m the nut here, right bra’? It isn’t Christianity that has Allah looking for alternatives to the GOP, it is people like Lawrence and those who would acquiesce or pander to his statist impulses.

Watcher on February 1, 2007 at 6:34 PM

Okay… your taking about three different conversations and lumping them together. AllahP’s religious convictions was not part of our original exchange, and I’ve never said whether I was for big government or against it, but I did answer your porn question with a text book answer.

I will state now, that I am generally against big government. But that has nothing to do with making a law against pornography. Small governments can make wise laws just like big governments.

I’m just saying that pornography as a choice is not a wise choice, and pointing out how it is destructive thing for those who get trapped as “actors” in that life style.

If you want to embrace a activity that is destructive to others, that is perfectly legal. But you have no right to mock me because I disagree with you.

I’m not the one who compared looking at porn with being a child molester, that was Lawrence… but sure, I’m the nut here, right bra’? It isn’t Christianity that has Allah looking for alternatives to the GOP, it is people like Lawrence and those who would acquiesce or pander to his statist impulses.

Ok joke to lighten up all this theology talk: did you hear about the dyslexic agnostic? He’s pretty sure there isn’t a dog…..
honora on February 1, 2007 at 3:10 PM

That made me laugh out loud.

You’re makin’ my point, bra’

Jesus loves you.

Everyone else pretty much thinks you’re an asshole.

I thought you were a Calvinist?

PRCalDude on February 1, 2007 at 2:45 PM

I apologize for the confusion because I never suggest otherwise. I’m more in line with Augsburg than with Westminster. However, I chose not to belabor the point because this doesn’t place us that far apart on the general topics of our discussions the last couple days.

As to your description of regeneration, consider us in agreement.

- heard this morning, on the news/radio, about a church having bought a former adult book store, having cleaned and prayed over every single tile and moving on with the conversion…don’t recall where, and

- a while ago a church had neglected to renew its domain and then lost it to a porn shop.

Unrelated, RushBaby – smiles to you too!, and,

honora – made me tear up a little. Sent you a long note on the MM/O’Reilly thread, 2 days ago.

My furnace has not been off for days. I’m afraid to look at my gas bill……

Yeah, I’ve tried to ignore the noise of my frequently-running furnace. Fortunately, my house has giant radiators, so they keep throwing off heat even after the furnace goes off. If it weren’t for those, I’d be in big(er) trouble on the bill.

It’s one thing to tell me that you are realistic about not being able to get the level of regulation you want, but don’t try to deny that you want pornography completely outlawed in all its forms after you just came right out and told me that you did.

Watcher on February 1, 2007 at 2:42 PM

You aske a question yesterday, that begged my answer. Nothing has changed about that.

Today, I’m simply recognizing that regardless of my personal desires, pornography in some forms will remain legal in this country for the forseeable future.

You asked if you disagreed with me made on this it would make you a looney leftist… I answered, no. Lots of secular conservatives support legalized pornography, just as any number of religious liberals do.

Second that. Cold hurts, people. It’s been negative something or another for about a week here.

Cold hurts.

Slublog on February 1, 2007 at 2:56 PM

My furnace has not been off for days. I’m afraid to look at my gas bill……

Just a short additon, this E-Universe is also never boring, very simple and complex, at once, inquisitive, and yes, philosophycal at times. Much struggle, suffering, work, challenge, and yet, so much to be thankful for. One item for sure is the opportunity to communicate with my HA friends. I sincerely include honora in this category. Her comments on this thread confirmed again why.

We could all do well to be more open, less judgmental, like my friend Entelechy. You go girl!!!

Basically I just type all of that so I had an excuse to tell everyone how cold it’s been up here, contrary to the popular belief that this has been a “mild” winter, after it began a little late and everyone had that ONE WARM WEEKEND.

Second that. Cold hurts, people. It’s been negative something or another for about a week here.

Cold hurts.