It would appear that Iranian troops, perhaps even Revolutionary Guard, are operating inside Iraq and might have even carried out a deadly attack upon a conpound last week in Karbala which claimed the lives of 5 American troops:
(CNN) The Pentagon is i…

Your post above was well taken, we agree on many points, but the point of contention is that you believe China and Russia are enemies of the United States at this time and I believe that they are competitors and opponents, at this time.

That could be an entire set of threads on this topic alone, starting with the definition of an “enemy” and what foundation you have for your conclusion that Russia and China are enemies of the United States since 1918 or so.

I believe that, at present, both Russia and China are not enemies that wish complete destruction on the US., they wish to limit U.S. power to great degree and continue to exploit our system to their economic advantage. China in particular is benefiting greatly from their exports to the United States and has great interest to see that relationlship continue.

Russia has it’s own reasons for a degree of cooperation but destruction of the United States is not in their best interest either.

This post and thread are about to disappear into archives on Hot Air, but the point is made. If you wish to respond perhaps you would reveal your defintion of “enemy” and your rationale for concluding that Russia and China are enemies, and not competitiors and opponents

Ya’all do remember that Nasrallah was quoted as saying he was surprised by that response?

Would Iran then hope for a similiar response from the US? Or do the leaders in Iran believe that we will react as we did in Mogadishu when the two Blackhawks were shot down?

Ya’all do know that it was three years later that General Mohamed Farrah Aidid died of gunshot wounds?

Courtesy of Hot Air:
by Bryan
If Iranian agents are behind the murder of US soldiers in Kerbala, some things ought to explode on the Iranian side of the border. Bill Roggio has been checking with intel sources:
The American Forces Information Serv…

Made me smile.

The only way to fight a war is total war. Everything else is just ****ing around.

JayHawk (with a “K”)

America no longer has the stomach to shoulder the burdens it’s highground beliefs require. I’m glad I’m old and have no children … I have little confidence that the future holds a positive outcome … but hey, I read Mark Steyn to cheer me up .

Paul

I hope you didn’t take my questioning of the “paper tiger” theory as hesitation to attack Iran or target Iranian agents. That is 180-degrees opposite my stance. In fact, I’ve consistantly said and still believe Iraq has always been about Iran – the main reason I supported and continue to support a presense in Iraq. It can’t happen fast enough for me.

My only contention is that if we’re ready to take on Iran we better understand we’re taking them on as a proxy, just like Iraq is. Agreed they would be defeated quite readily, which is one of the reasons I’m ready.

Maybe the radiation will give the gas an extra octane or two.

If Iranian agents are behind the murder of US soldiers in Kerbala, some things ought to explode on the Iranian side of the border.

Oh, how I wished that we could have taken out these worthless folks since 1979. I only hope against hope that we could take them out for good. We’d miss nothing from this region of the world – aside from possibly oil, they giove nothing of value to the planet either culturally, spritually, or otherwise.

Oil, I would note, we can get anywhere pretty much.

Russia and China are not allies of Iran, they are cooperating with Iran for the term that is in their best economic and poltical interest.

Military equipment, including sophisticated air defense systems, nuclear technology, economic transactions, and limited political support is what Iran is getting now, and will get in the future from China and Russia. China and Russia will continue this arrangement because it is in their best interest, at the moment.

Now expand your field a bit – all the major players nations are engaged in this sort of thing an have been for many years.

China and Russia also support Iran because Iran can be used as a proxy against the United States. China and Russia are not enemies of the United States, they are compeititors and opponents. They are not interested in a World War, they are intersted in limiting American power, influence, and their own economic gain

Not quite true – Russia has considered us an enemy since around 1919 in one form or another. China for at least as long and possibly before as we were considered a part of that class of foreigners who had exploited them.

We are politically, although possibly not culturally enemies and that is bad enough because of the potential for the political to spill over through the skillful use of media to the mass.

They definitely want ecomomic gain – and if they get that gain, guess who loses?

That’s right – we do – at least initially.

It will give some satisfaction to see China and Russia in the same place the United States was in when they desire UN cooperation and are blocked by the US. The UN is a political body with it’s own agenda, definitely anti-US, but powerless to gain concensus because of US veto power and allied support.

Nice thought, but this will not happen – why?

Because it would be bad for our busines interests. If you don’t believe that, look at many of the (what used to be predominately US) major companies that we are familiar with (not just oil, although that is instructive).

They will openly state that they consider themselves to be multinational or global, not merely American.

Just think, if they feel that way about the business end of it, what would make you think that they are that “patriotic” about the societal end of the equation?

Perhaps the best way to think of China and Russia is as one would think of a “Ferengi”. Totally profit motivated, lacking moral and ethical standards that we relate to, will cooperate only when it is clearly in their best interest, and will actively support anyone who is providing resistance to a competitor.

This comes closest, however, keep in mind that business works well with business – no matter where it is.

War, suffering, etc.. is merely the price one must endure of making sure that business is good and that the bottom line reflects positively upon their interests.

Unfortunately, those interests are not often those shared by tha majority.

Further keep in mind that there are not true competitors except in the business sense – and regional trouble spots that impede the flow of trade.

Situational Ethics will dictate how it is both presented to “us” and how “we” must respond, when in reality it is conflict between business interests, some of whom actually beleive that governments control business when in the real world it is the other way around.

Look around you – it does not matter whether you look at the US, UK, Europe, South America, Middle East, etc..

Politicians are bought and sold with dizzying frequency. They purport to serve “our” interests, but in reality serve their corporate masters better – any benefit we get is purely incidental from these elitists.

And they are from both parties – again, it gives the illusion of chioce, although I do beleive that that facade is crumbling a bit and at least some of the people are starting to see clearer.

Make no mistake – China and Russia are our enemies. They will support Iran, it is true, due to the potential to destabilize us in any trouble spot world-wide, just as they support Chavez, Castro, etc..

The goal is to destroy the US. Their actions kill our warfighters.

I only wish it were possible for the money boys and uniformed pampered princes in DC to do the right thing for a change and look out for our soldiers instead of their business portfolios.

That would mean unleashing our warfighters to do what must be done and do it right with decisive force so that our enemies cannot stand against us for at least as long as it takes for them to rebuild their countries back to the industrial age from the stone age we should leave them in.

We as individuals fight for survival of self and of culture – not the bottom line for a congressman, senator, or generals portfolio.

Military equipment, including sophisticated air defense systems, nuclear technology, economic transactions, and limited political support is what Iran is getting now, and will get in the future from China and Russia. China and Russia will continue this arrangement because it is in their best interest, at the moment.

China and Russia also support Iran because Iran can be used as a proxy against the United States. China and Russia are not enemies of the United States, they are compeititors and opponents. They are not interested in a World War, they are intersted in limiting American power, influence, and their own economic gain.

It will give some satisfaction to see China and Russia in the same place the United States was in when they desire UN cooperation and are blocked by the US. The UN is a political body with it’s own agenda, definitely anti-US, but powerless to gain concensus because of US veto power and allied support.

Perhaps the best way to think of China and Russia is as one would think of a “Ferengi”. Totally profit motivated, lacking moral and ethical standards that we relate to, will cooperate only when it is clearly in their best interest, and will actively support anyone who is providing resistance to a competitor.

with Hanoi Jane marching in DC today

Speeding tickets are payed in ninety days but treason is forever.

The good news: The Bush administration has authorized the U.S. military to kill or capture Iranian operatives inside Iraq as part of an aggressive new strategy to weaken Tehran’s influence across the Middle East and compel it to give up……

A senior intelligence officer was more wary of the ambitions of the strategy.

“This has little to do with Iraq. It’s all about pushing Iran’s buttons. It is purely political,” the official said. The official expressed similar views about other new efforts aimed at Iran, suggesting that the United States is escalating toward an unnecessary conflict to shift attention away from Iraq and to blame Iran for the United States’ increasing inability to stanch the violence there.

Appeasers like this need to be flushed out and fired post- haste. This person would allow Iran to train the Mahdi Army, foment chaos in Iraq which destabilizes the whole region and imperils the U.S., and kill our soldiers with impunity.

Clearly, this person’s alliance is to the Democrat Party and not to our Republic.

Once tensions get high enough a U.S. Navel vessel strays a little too close and Iran fires an Exocet missile I’m thinking the war is on.

Iran remember is a whole other ball game from Iraq.
Their military, though not of course comparable to ours, is however up to date with the new Russia’s finest armaments and Russia of course secured the service and training contracts to go with the sales.
So if we do take on Iran, Russian pilots and command and control will be tested against our military.
Iran also has a huge network sleepers in our own country.

This all might sound glorious but not necessarily exercising the brain option to effect regime change in Iran.

When the frothing moonbats are in the midst of their latest temper tantrum today, consider the events that recently took place in Karbala, and understand the enemy we’re dealing with. The New York Post editorial today has a sobering reminder….