honora, that T-Bone reference gave you a little pause, didn’t it?

Jaibones on January 25, 2007 at 5:05 PM

I have the feeling this is some sort of double entendre but I am going to have to ‘fess up I don’t get it???

Really? How often are our Christian readers tweaked? Or did you miss the two posts about Pelosi’s Christian-bashing daughter in the past 24 hours?

Allahpundit on January 25, 2007 at 5:47 PM

No offense intended. Rarely are Christians tweaked here. I am not accusing you of being anti-Christian. Christians are tweaked about as often as Southerners- perhaps I should have used that in my example. Who can forget:

The “He is Risen” teaser for

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/17/pastors-encouraging-christian-couples-to-get-their-freak-on/

Your focus on Christianity often tends towards the flippant:

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/05/10/bbc-wants-to-know-what-would-jesus-drive/

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/12/14/video-where-would-jesus-hunt-for-bargains

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/25/chuck-norris-facts-analyzed-by-chuck-norris/

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/01/24/video-the-bible-says/

However, these are stories in line with the unique flavor yu bring to this site. Keep doing what you are doing!

Gregor on January 25, 2007 at 6:23 PM

Show me where an illegal alien was forced to pay any substantial fine.
If you think it is impossible to know when insurance lapses, then you must know it is impossible. That is the exact argument the insurance lobbyists gave the legislature, I don’t buy into their propaganda, you do.
Seeing as this thread is about illegal aliens, gregor, how do they pay out of their “pocketbook” when they have no assets, or at least any traceable assets.
Your last paragraph just confirmed my post. You show proof of insurance (which can be one months worth), and you pay a fee, not a heavy fine like you stated. That is what I wrote.
I had an employee (hispanic) that was caught without insurance and did not have to pay a fine, just prove the car had insurance. For 50 bucks he got temp insur. designed to beat the system. Your friend was honest and did the right thing, we are speaking about illegal people beating the system.
You spend to much time googling, and not enough analyzing. You basically confirmed what I wrote. Thank you.

You and I will not agree, you think that it is OK to drive without insurance, I think it is wrong. I think systems could be put into place to assure that one has insurance, you think it is impossible. You think Cal law is severe enough, I do not think it is severe. The democrats have lessoned the law for the ones that abuse it, and strengthens it for the ones that try to adhere.

You believe in forgiveness over permission, I believe in following the rule of law and pay the consequences and not ask for forgiveness. We have different views.

Where I live, illegal labor is employed in plain sight.

There’s no plan or discussion about putting a stop to that, but people want to militarize the border? It’s a symbolic feel-good guesture. It may gain some votes for Tancredo, but it won’t solve the problem.

In the absence of any local-level will to stop the employment of illegal labor, a border fence will fail. People will come through gaps, or they will come on boats, or they will come on airplanes. So long as local governments continue to protect illegal labor, it will happen.

The problem is not at the border. Trying to solve it there will fail.

To get a drivers license, or to register a car you present to the DMV proof of insurance; that is how you enforce. If insurance lapses you have x amount of days before your registration is pulled.

right2bright on January 25, 2007 at 6:00 PM

Not possible and not practiced in any State that I know of. DMV has absolutely no way of knowing when a driver’s insurance lapses.

I guess I did not make myself clear, you are not “heavily” fined, you are given a citation that is excused if you show proof of insurance.

right2bright on January 25, 2007 at 6:00 PM

Not true.

According to CarInsurance.com …

What is the penalty for driving without insurance in California?

Failing to show proof of financial responsibility, meaning insurance coverage, is a violation of California Vehicle Code Section 16029. Violating this code could result in fines up to $500 plus penalties, impoundment of the vehicle and suspension of the driver’s license. If the vehicle is impounded the owner will have to pay for all storage and tow charges as well.

The consequences can be far more serious if you are involved in an accident and do not have insurance. You may have to comply with the financial responsibility laws (SR22, SR22s, SR16) including having to pay for any injuries or damages from the accident out of your own pocket.

A coworker of mine was busted without insurance, given a fine of $475, and after showing proof that he obtained insurance … the fine was only reduced to $350.

Also, per the California Courts self help center …

Car Insurance in California

In California, you must have car insurance that covers you when you’re driving any car. If a police officer stops you, you must show proof of insurance. If you have insurance but don’t have proof to show the officer, you’ll be charged with an infraction for driving without proof of insurance and must take proof of your insurance to court and pay a fee.
If you don’t have insurance, you must buy it. Then, take your proof of insurance to court and pay a fine.

Definitely. Always!

Gregor on January 25, 2007 at 5:48 PM

Therein lies the problem. I think it is better to ask permission first. I think it is better to license people for driving before they are allowed to drive. I think it is better to be insured before an accident than after.
You are proposing anarchy. Do whatever you want, than ask for forgiveness. Why have laws then? The stop light gives you permission to stop or go, so ignore it and ask foregiveness later? What a strange answer.

How exactly do you FORCE people to have insurance if they choose to just ignore the law? Do you have it automatically charged to them through payroll taxes?…
Gregor on January 25, 2007 at 5:25 PM

To get a drivers license, or to register a car you present to the DMV proof of insurance; that is how you enforce. If insurance lapses you have x amount of days before your registration is pulled.
I guess I did not make myself clear, you are not “heavily” fined, you are given a citation that is excused if you show proof of insurance. Having insurance after the fact is of no help, and having insurance for one month to get a citation removed is not any help. Because of this lax insurance program, the insured (with uninsured motorist coverage) is carrying the costs of the uninsured..which is substantial in California. Why punish the law abiding, and let the law breakers off?
If you murder someone you are punished (although your analogy is extreme), if you drive without insurance you are not punished. A citation without any real punishment is not very effective in my view. Don’t you think it would be better to be pro-active than re-active?

Better to ask forgiveness than permission?

Slublog on January 25, 2007 at 5:44 PM

Definitely. Always!

Absolutely, if you are an Ann Coulter-loving devout Christian against a nascent North American Union disguised as amnesty, prepare to be tweaked on Hot Air.

Really? How often are our Christian readers tweaked? Or did you miss the two posts about Pelosi’s Christian-bashing daughter in the past 24 hours?

It’s like saying that murder isn’t illegal in California because they don’t punish you unless you’re caught.

Better to ask forgiveness than permission?

right2bright on January 25, 2007 at 4:51 PM

I’m not sure how this is different than almost every other State. Insurance is mandatory and if you get caught without it you get fined heavily.

The citation is to punish you for not following the law.

I’m not sure of the point with uninsured motorist insurance. Would it be better to NOT have that available and leave people with no coverage at all when hit by someone who is breaking the law by not being insured?

Maybe I’m just not understanding your point. It just seems that you’re claiming that because people have the ability to break the law by not having insurance … that it means insurance is not mandatory.

How exactly do you FORCE people to have insurance if they choose to just ignore the law? Do you have it automatically charged to them through payroll taxes?

It’s like saying that murder isn’t illegal in California because they don’t punish you unless you’re caught.

This raises an intriguing question: can one Troll his own web site?

Absolutely, if you are an Ann Coulter-loving devout Christian against a nascent North American Union disguised as amnesty, prepare to be tweaked on Hot Air.

Allah, you’re turning into a troll.

PRCalDude on January 25, 2007 at 9:52 AM

This raises an intriguing question: can one Troll his own web site?

When did I say that, exactly? Debate my points, not what you believe my points might be.

Sorry. I must have completely missed your point. I apologize.

This is how it was a few years ago, it may have changed. You can bet it is not more restrictive. BTW, the city of Bell Gardens does not give driving citations out for fear of forcing insurance on its residents, finding illegals, or finding drivers without a drivers license. About 90% hispanic is Bell Gardens.

Don’t you just love those democrats, always looking out for their citizens.

Or, better yet, we have something other than a line in the sand between this country and Mexico. A wall would be a nice start – you’ve got to plug the hole before you start bailing out the boat, so to speak.

Every means needed and necessary must be employed or the message will not be taken seriously.
The list of protections afforded and the number of disincentives needed has grown to about a mile long.

Since the message wasn’t sent seriously and then enforced before the problem has been exacerbated to the point of choosing will it be them or us.

Until about 60K guard troops are deployed by a sincere President to secure America, the rest is platitudes.

Or, better yet, we have something other than a line in the sand between this country and Mexico. A wall would be a nice start – you’ve got to plug the hole before you start bailing out the boat, so to speak.

Good point, instead of blaming the guns, we should blame the law-breakers. Illegal aliens are the problem- not just the aliens driving drunk. You may not agree that they are illegal but, for the moment, they are.

When did I say that, exactly? Debate my points, not what you believe my points might be.

Until the flow is permanently stopped our population will illegally grow in amnesty leaps much larger than estimated or admitted too.

Until about 60K guard troops are deployed by a sincere President to secure America, the rest is platitudes.
Properly called BS.

Immigrants are coming in illegally because they’re being paid to do so, it’s as simple as that. There are already existing laws against hiring illegal immigrants, but local governments turn a blind eye to it and even help employers do it, because it’s seen as good for the local economy.

All this talk about addressing the problem at the federal level or at the border is doomed to fail because it’s missing the root cause, which is corruption of the federal system, pitting the states’ short term interests against the nation’s long term interests. This is hard to solve, so people just ignore it and instead rant about symbolic issues and conspiracy theories.

1) It’s linked to stronger enforcement provisions (more Customs/Border Patrol agents, more fencing, deployment of surveilance technologies, meaningful penalties for employers).

2) No preferential amnesty is offered to guest workers.

3) Anyone who cannot prove they are a legal U.S. citizen AND who refuse to join a guest worker program is deported back to their home country poste haste.