They appear as automatons, unable or unwilling to question the pronouncements of their leaders.

I am not sure who Ms. Pelosi thinks my “leaders” are. I have one. And as a number of folks have pointed out, Christians are called to willing submission to God. Therefore, that we are unwilling or unable to question the pronouncement of our Leader is unsurprising. That we all struggle daily to live according to God’s will is part of the deal, cause we are all humans after all. It does take faith to believe what the Bible says, but that faith is well worth it.

You may call hypocrite and you’re welcome to if you’d like. But I can promise that if this story was about a movie that talked openly and honestly about the extremist side of the Muslim world in America, CAIR (they’re the big and powerful and at ti…

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Ponder this: I believe it takes more FAITH to be an athiest.

Hebrews 11:1 (NIV) says, “Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.”

Hebrews 11:1 (ESV) says, “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.”

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Jesus called people “sheep”. He did not call Christians “sheep”. He did refer to his “flock”, but that is only a subset of “sheep”. Has anyone considered the nature and habits of sheep?

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I don’t go to church because I HAVE to. I go because I GET to. It is a privelege and an honor. Not a requirement. Although Paul does counsel, “Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another…” (Hebrews 10:25, NIV)

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INC on January 24, 2007 at 9:55 PM, wrote:
HBO mentions she visited Joel Osteen, Ted Haggard, and Jerry Falwell. Let me tell you, that list alone tells me she had already stereotyped evangelical Christians in her mind. She should have included R. C. Sproul, John Piper and Al Mohler.

I say, “Amen”, and if I had the time, I could probably add a few more to this list…

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Enrique, consider this: It is not “this God guy dragging us down”, we can do that much on our own, and if that’s the way you see it, maybe it’s your own convictions. Christianity is about “this God guy” picking us back up again, even if we don’t deserve it.

Enrique on January 24, 2007 at 11:21

Enrique, I apologize if my answers are brief as each of your concerns really do merit a detailed response, a luxury not afforded while at work.

Just one thing though – I grew up Catholic. I put my time in. I had to go to church twice a week. TWICE! Reflecting on the agony of it all drives me to drink

Walking into a church does not make you a christian any more than walking into a barn makes you a cow. I grew up Episcopalian without ever understanding the gospel until I actually read the bible many years later.

But practicing Christians don’t really think or behave differently than anyone else – they just have the option to give credit/blame for everything that happens to them to this Highly Improbable Being.

I think the key words are “Practicing Christians”. Many people go through the life calling themselves Christians without really living (or even reading) the words in the bible. If you want to judge Christianity, judge Christ as he sets the example of what we aspire to. Christians are not perfect, which is why we need him.

All I’m saying is let’s just raise our kids to be decent human beings without introducing this ultra-complex, neurosis-inducing, omnipotent God character that knows our thoughts and is constantly judging us.

Saying that God is constantly judging us misses the entire point of the new testament that God loves us and sent his Son Jesus to die in our place (John 3:16). God is our Father and we are his children. Do you constantly judge your children just waiting for them to make as mistake so you can pounce? Neither does God.

That sets a needlessly proposterous standard to live up to.

The laws of the bible were meant to show us our spiritual depravity as they are impossible to keep via our own power, which is why we need Christ:

Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. (Galatians 3:23-25)

We can be decent human beings without this God guy dragging us down what with his strange preoccupation with consenting adult behavior that harms no one outside of the participants therein. I mean, you know?

As a parent instructs a child, so are Gods rules meant to instruct or protect us. They are not meant to “drag you down”, they are meant to enrich your life.

Enrique on January 24, 2007 at 11:21 PM

Sadly, I know many guys raised Catholic who feel exactly like you do. I had no religious affiliation until my thirties. Now I’m a musical director and worship leader at a Methodist church. A decade ago I fronted a grunge band playing some seriously loud music. If faith in Jesus doesn’t change you – you’re doing it wrong.

Christianity, like any human system attracts a wide spectrum of adherents. Some are simple, and so need only simple truths to be content. Some are highly analytical and question, investigate and test everything the religion proposes.

All are true Christians.

To produce a work that focuses on the simple, while suggesting it is representative of the entire faith is flawed or fraud.

Such a work can be produced only by someone who is ignorant or devious respectively.

Emmett J.,
For Christians there is no dichotomy between reason and faith. I think Kirkegaard was the one who introduced the false division between reason and faith. See the lists above and read some Lewis, Schaeffer, Sproul, Piper and Mohler.

INC on January 24, 2007 at 11:44 PM

Right you are overall, although Kirkegaard was able to draw some decent conclusions ocassionally. Lewis is not bad, although you generally have to take him slowly so as to digest better.

I would also have to recommend Augustine as well as the Gospels and Romans, not to mention most of the New Testament. After all, even philosophers very frequestly used the Bible for their reference points (obvious and referential) as well – even some of the later 19th century ones.

Overall, I would have to Agree with this:

As Lewis eloquently put, “I was dragged screaming and kicking into the kingdom of God.” His unflinching search for truth demanded conversion from atheist to disciple. A reasoned and fair search eventually leads to the foot of the cross where the ground is level for all. Perhaps critics caricaturize believers as bumpkins so they don’t have to seriously consider a faith that would force a change in their own behavior.

Mojave Mark on January 25, 2007 at 12:42 AM

As an (imperfect) follower of Christ, I, as well, wish to stimulate discussion (as I believe that you also do) so as to attempt to bring about that change in behavior.

And, to be quite honest, sometimes the attacks of those (who came before us and upon each other) get old. Discussion is far better than the personal attack – especially when it comes to living our faith.

From that perspective, I feel that I was successful in helping to divert the track from pure insult and attack to discussion.

Thank you for your faith and your views.

Lastly, Enrique, it sounds as if you have given up on God due in part to your experiences. You may have heard this before, but it is just as true, no matter who says it:

God has not given up on you.

Thanks all for sharing and best wishes for a good night to all.

it was the willingness of evangelicals, young and old, to accept as figurative and literal gospel anything and everything fed to them by authority figures. They appear as automatons, unable or unwilling to question the pronouncements of their leaders.

All groups have these types of people, but these types of people don’t make up the entirety or even the majority of all groups.

Take, for example, Al Gore’s movie. Liberals are mindlessly accepting it as “figurative and literal gospel” and are “unable or unwilling to question” Gore’s pronouncements.

Also difficult to watch were those who, despite having elected a born-again president and established giant radio and TV networks and a political power base second to none, still feel they are a persecuted minority. If Pelosi’s intent is to show that evangelical faith suffocates reason, the point is well-made.

So to prove that evangelical Christians aren’t persecuted, you go out and produce a documentary that persecutes them and belittles them by showing that “evangelical faith suffocates reason?” What a load of horse crap!

Enrique on January 24, 2007 at 11:38 PM

Are you saying that Christians do not take the same attitude?

I have found that most people who blame “God” for how they processed religeous teachings need to look within themselves to find someone to blame.

Right. I blame myself for my failures. I credit myself for my accomplishments. It’s almost as if it makes perfect sense.

Enrique on January 24, 2007 at 11:21 PM

Who gets to decide what a decent human being is? You? Why should anyone have “faith” in you? You, believe it or not are exercising “faith” in your beliefs.

Regardless of your experiences, a huge majority of people of faith have very positive experiences. I have found that most people who blame “God” for how they processed religeous teachings need to look within themselves to find someone to blame.

Atheists only know the life of the unbelievers, but tend to speak with great authority about how Christians think.

Just one thing though – I grew up Catholic. I put my time in. I had to go to church twice a week. TWICE! Reflecting on the agony of it all drives me to drink…

But practicing Christians don’t really think or behave differently than anyone else – they just have the option to give credit/blame for everything that happens to them to this Highly Improbable Being.

All I’m saying is let’s just raise our kids to be decent human beings without introducing this ultra-complex, neurosis-inducing, omnipotent God character that knows our thoughts and is constantly judging us. That sets a needlessly proposterous standard to live up to. We can be decent human beings without this God guy dragging us down – what with his strange preoccupation with consenting adult behavior that harms no one outside of the participants therein. I mean, you know?

Insh’allah.

As one of the resident atheists who posts here, I’ll certainly agree with the sentiment of that quote. I don’t think our society gains anything from teaching our children that it’s okay not to question things and accept that which they can’t understand on some self-serving notion of “faith.”

You mean like loving thy neighbor even after he kills a family member?
How about paying a tithe just because you are commanded to? A tithe that helps the less fortunate.
Maybe spending one day a week getting outside your own selfish life?

Also, think about the footage you see from the Mideast of young children proclaiming their hatred of Jews and their willingness to become martyrs. This is the same mentality at work here.

“Hey kids, if we say God hates Jews, don’t question. Just believe and obey.”

Enrique on January 24, 2007 at 6:05 PM

Since when do Christians blow up market places? Just where did Christ teach that Christians should kill people that don’t convert to the faith?

“What?”

Just a thought.

Rather, it was the willingness of evangelicals, young and old, to accept as figurative and literal gospel anything and everything fed to them by authority figures. They appear as automatons, unable or unwilling to question the pronouncements of their leaders.

This isn’t going to be good, because she’s started off with a false premise:
We evangelical Christians have ministers and they’re our leaders, but our real Leader is the Man Upstairs and His Word, the Bible.
In that the very foundation of our Faith (the fundamental fundamental, if you will) is the Bible, it goes without saying that if we follow the Holy Word we’ve overcome our self-willed attempts to question or disobey Scripture…or we’re working on it.
Notice that Alexandra not only is guilty of this mind-numbed robot behavior herself as a good member of the Left who gets her Talking Points Memo every day from the DNC, but she’s also a Catholic and they also tend to behave like “automatons, unable or unwilling to question the pronouncements of their” Pope, if they’re good Catholics, that is.
Yes, let’s all sing John Lennon’s “Imagine: …no religion, too.”
Then the world would be so beautiful, right?
Speaking of beauty, too bad Alexandra didn’t get at least some of Nancy’s pretty genes. Meow.
And we Christians are a persecuted majority. I heard President Nixon talk about the “silent majority” when I was in high school, but know I really know what and who he meant and I’m one of them.
I do hope and pray that we’re learning not to so silent any more even though things like this movie are just one more attempt to shame, embarrass and silence us.

You mean those unthinking automaton Evangelicals like Pascal, Descartes, Newton, C.S. Lewis, Madame Curie, John Locke, and on and on and on. Oh yah, those guys.

Nancy Dearest knows best.

Mojave Mark on January 24, 2007 at 5:57 PM

Let me add Copernicus, Kepler, John Napier, Euler and Francis Schaeffer to your list.

No matter. The response was overwhelming. The HBO segment hasn’t even aired yet, and the “people of faith” that frequent the HotAir site have already blown so many holes in Alexandra Pelosi that even Yosemite Sam had cause to blush. (The best part is that they didn’t even need my help.)

Of course, it won’t come without a price. honora will be delighted that there are SO MANY SNL “church ladies” to pick on. BTW, where is she (honora)? I am sure that JaHerer MUST be getting lonely by now.