Va. legislator: Blacks should get over slavery like we’ve gotten over Jews killing Christ
posted at 6:16 pm on January 16, 2007 by Allahpundit
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly
Just when you think he’s about to veer off into a racist rant about blacks, he turns around and says something anti-semitic instead.
Like Nigel said in Spinal Tap, “He did a twist on it.”
Looks like Spengler rolled a seven with that analogy this morning, huh?
“The present commonwealth has nothing to do with slavery,” said Del. Frank D. Hargrove, R-Glen Allen, whose ancestors were French Huguenots who came to America in search of religious freedom…
“Are we going to force the Jews to apologize for killing Christ?” Hargrove wondered. “Nobody living today had anything to do with it. It would be far more appropriate in my view to apologize to the Upper Mattaponi and the Pamunkey” Indians for the loss of their lands in eastern Virginia, he said…
“I personally think that our black citizens should get over it,” Hargrove said of slavery, which existed in Virginia from 1619 until the Civil War. “By golly, we’re living in 2007.”
A Jewish legislator called him on his remarks during the House session today in Richmond, explaining that his grandparents had to flee Poland to avoid being killed by the Nazis.
Hargrove’s response?
“I think your skin was a little too thin,” he said as Republicans and Democrats gasped and groaned in disbelief.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »
I belive in free speech. Not PC crap. If you have a mind to say something, by all rights you should be able to say it. So long as it doesn’t endanger anyone’s life or promote bodily harm.
Troy Rasmussen on January 16, 2007 at 6:20 PM
Oh my.
And what the hell is that on his head?
JammieWearingFool on January 16, 2007 at 6:21 PM
But… but… it goes to eleven.
Mortis on January 16, 2007 at 6:21 PM
It looks like either a hearing aid or more likely, a cochlear implant.
Slublog on January 16, 2007 at 6:23 PM
The residents of my part of Virginia will have no part of this. This is why we all get a bad reputation.
I haven’t found a single person who will admit to have voted for Jim (flippem over and…..) Webb.
This piece of spittle is no representative of mine or of anyone I know.
Jeeeeezzzzzzzz.
hillbillyjim on January 16, 2007 at 6:25 PM
Hmm…problem?
j/k…holy cow. Making Republicans look bad would be an understatement.
freakagriep on January 16, 2007 at 6:28 PM
Where’s Bobby “the drooler” Byrd been lately?
R D on January 16, 2007 at 6:28 PM
Jumper cables?
As another resident of the Old Dominion (Southwest), I really don’t care what they say in Richmond….as long as it’s not “We’re going to raise your taxes again!”
Or maybe what Mark Warner said, “Gosh. Where’d that $137 million go?”
TugboatPhil on January 16, 2007 at 6:31 PM
I would humbly ask the question, what does the holocaust have to do with the crucifixtion of Christ? It is 2007, slavery has long since been abolished. Let’s deal with todays problems with todays solutions. I’m afraid that is not going to be possible as long as the current black leadership(Bond, Jackson, Sharpton)is in place. We all are a little trigger-happy these days sitting upon the offend-me post……
ritethinker on January 16, 2007 at 6:33 PM
I wonder how big this will go in the msm. Olbermann’s worst in the world bit, i’d imagine.
Alex K on January 16, 2007 at 6:35 PM
Release the
houndsMSM! (there’s an “(R)” next to this guy’s name)RightWinged on January 16, 2007 at 6:37 PM
The post is kinda incomplete. Aren’t you gonna throw in some kind of derogatory wholesale remark about southern Republicans?
Mark V. on January 16, 2007 at 6:37 PM
Since when is Jew on Jew crime anti-semitic? And if it is, what does that make Black on Black crime?
.
GT on January 16, 2007 at 6:40 PM
He has the right to say it, and we have the right to laugh at him and point, too.
Number 2 on January 16, 2007 at 6:41 PM
“Blacks should get over slavery like we’ve gotten over Jews killing Christ”
He’s right … there are those that continue to use slavery as a hammer to bash whites and receive preferential treatment. There was nothing racist or anti-semitic in his remarks.
darwin on January 16, 2007 at 6:42 PM
Well, at least we know what the lead story will be in the MSM news for the next week (or so).
Rick on January 16, 2007 at 6:43 PM
Oh! That’s one of the Internets, the series of tubes!
Mazztek on January 16, 2007 at 6:45 PM
Since nobody alive was ever enslaved on U.S. soil, what’s to get over?
There’s money in the “legacy of slavery”
cut off the money and the political influence and you’ll get rid of the issue.
But, you’ll have to get rid of all the libs first.
Metro on January 16, 2007 at 6:49 PM
“The residents of my part of Virginia will have no part of this.”
Well I don’t know what part of Virginia you’re in, but the part I live in says a man shouldn’t feel constrained by political correctness to speak his mind. His example of Christ and Jews was just that, an example. Nothing more, nothing less. Could he have used a different example? Probably … but he didn’t.
darwin on January 16, 2007 at 6:53 PM
Get over it? Not gonna happen, wouldn’t be prudent…
Scotsman on January 16, 2007 at 6:53 PM
I’m not exactly religious but wasn’t it the Romans who killed Christ?
Capitalist Infidel on January 16, 2007 at 7:02 PM
He’s actually got a pretty good point.
Point is, for those who can’t get past their own PC’ness…
Jews DID kill Christ, or at least had him sentenced to death. Christians however got past that…. Today it is not an issue.
However, Slavery is still being used as a goad to gain political power and get “victimhood” by people who have never been enslaved…
I’m White… have never held slaves… and had ancestor’s on BOTH sides of the Civil War…. although those on the South’s side HAD NO SLAVES…. now… just how long are we supposed to let that issue be used as an excuse??? How long are we supposed to feel guilty over somthing that NO ONE alive (at least in America, can’t say this about the Mid East) had anything to do with?
Get over it… fix your own problems.. I’ve got enough of my own without taking on yours.
Romeo13 on January 16, 2007 at 7:08 PM
If each group of whiners “got over” what they whine about all the time, they’d have nothing to whine about. Instead, they’s have to take responisiblity for their own selves. It would be scary, on so many levels, if that were to happen.
I won’t hold my breath.
SouthernGent on January 16, 2007 at 7:09 PM
I think the real problem here is why is the state apologizing for slavery. Can’t we move on for crying out loud. It IS 2007, after all.
Maybe the guy didn’t explain it in the politest sentiment, but I think he’s right.
I’m tired of apologizing and tip toeing around.
Vincenzo on January 16, 2007 at 7:19 PM
Another great reason to get rid of the “elderly” folks in Congress. It is embarrassing to have this “hoof in mouth” disease running amok.
sharinlite on January 16, 2007 at 7:22 PM
uhh.
i’m seeing a repeat of the night of “what’s so wrong with what turner said about killing all the amnesty-backers?”
many of them the same people. so, now you have a longitude and lattitude if you wanna call down the banhammer.
jummy on January 16, 2007 at 7:23 PM
“Another great reason to get rid of the “elderly” folks in Congress. It is embarrassing to have this “hoof in mouth” disease running amok.”
Just what is it you find offensive? Besides his age I mean. Should blacks continue to bring up slavery? Forever? No one should ever question or challenge it?
darwin on January 16, 2007 at 7:27 PM
Capitalist – It was a Roman punishment given at the request of the Jewish Sanhedron. Pilate thought beating Jesus nearly to death should do the trick, but the mob demanded his death. Pilate gave them one more chance to choose a convicted criminal to pardon (I think it was a Roman present to the Jews because it was one of their holidays) and they chose to free a man that had incited a riot and killed someone. So, while the argument can definitely be made that the actual punishment was carried out by Rome – finding Jesus guilty and demanding his death was done by the Jewish ruling body.
—————–
As for the response of the Jewish legislator, I may be reading too much into what he said, but, I believe his point was that Jesus was killed around 30AD and Jews were being slaughtered in the 1900’s with “Jews killed Jesus” being used as one of the excuses (although I think the main excuse was eugenics). So, while his argument might be valid, I certainly don’t feel like being held accountable for the sins of Europe. Furthermore, I think the point is “get over it” – It wasn’t a good thing that people were (are?) still mad at Jews for something that happened 2000 years ago. I don’t think it’s doing any black americans any good to focus on slavery (unless people in this country are finally focusing on the slavery that is still happening around the world, I’m all for that). Strike that. It isn’t doing any black americans (other than Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc) any good to focus on slavery.
JadeNYU on January 16, 2007 at 7:28 PM
According to Christianity, perhaps. Certainly not according to Judaism. The trial as alleged in the New Testament couldn’t possibly have happened according to Jewish law.
At any rate Hargrove is supposed to represent all of his constituents, not just the Christians. This is one case in which the members of his party would be well served to distance themselves from his remarks.
aunursa on January 16, 2007 at 7:31 PM
Unless you are trying to be technical (the Romans executed him), saying this group or that group killed Jesus (who himself was a Jew) is pointless. Jesus himself chose to die.
When the Romans were in the garden to arrest him and a disciple tried to protect him, Jesus reprimanded him saying:
With that being said, as a white republican, Hargrove is in for a rough week.
jman on January 16, 2007 at 7:32 PM
Like the man said, we don’t blame the Jews for killing Christ (or shouldn’t). At the most they were tools in God’s great plan.
That’s not anti-Semetic – if anything it’s the opposite.
jeffshultz on January 16, 2007 at 7:36 PM
Yeah right,
Let’s break down the logic. Whites committed the act. If an apology is needed, whites should apologize. It also means that the government represents only white people. If the government actually represent all races, blacks, latinos, Chinese, Punjabis, and the colorless would be apologize for an act that they do not have ties to. I don’t have legal knowledge to explain this further. This is where I stop.
Ouabam on January 16, 2007 at 7:36 PM
Sweet Leaping Jesus. What the hell was this guy thinking and what the hell are the people here who agree with him thinking? Next we’ll hear some crazy commenters telling Jews they should get over that whole Egypt thing and stop with the Passover already.
Just to be clear: focusing on the problems other people are causing you, rather than deciding to show them by succeeding in spite of them is a bad idea and not something that the government can fix. People are dicks to each other for all sorts of reason. Forget* them and just get on with life. Remembering what happened to your ancestors is honorable and nothing to be condemned, whether your ancestors are African, Middle Eastern, or if you’re a descendant of Germanic tribes and you’re memorialising the suffering of a Middle Eastern Heretic Jew at the hands of some Italians.
Early Christians’ “issues” with Jews of the day are understandable given how the established priests used the Romans to deal with heretics. But that was a political fight between two sets of Jews and nothing to do with Christians qua Christians (just like Protestants vs Catholics in Ireland isn’t about religion but economics, power, and ethnicity). “The Jews” didn’t kill Jesus, the existing establishment used the Romans to protect their power and authority.
Christians haven’t “gotten passed it”, it’s still an anti-semitic canard used by all sorts of neo-nazi dicks like the commenters above. But it is interesting to see it used along with an attack on an apology for slavery. Apologies and recognition of past wrongs are a good idea. Special treatment based solely on one’s skin color, whether for good or ill, is a desperately bad one.
I want to echo jummy’s call for the banhammer to be brought down on the anti-semites above.
libertarianuberalles on January 16, 2007 at 7:44 PM
“I don’t have legal knowledge to explain this further. This is where I stop.”
Sounds like you shouldn’t have started in the first place. BTW, I know a great place where you can get that big ass chip removed from your shoulder.
darwin on January 16, 2007 at 7:45 PM
Chairing a KKK committee meeting, against Jews, Catholics, Blacks…. and Romans!
PinkyBigglesworth on January 16, 2007 at 7:46 PM
The first “Christians” were Jews. Everybody happy?
darwin on January 16, 2007 at 7:47 PM
A Gwynneth Paltrow “Oh my God!”
My collie says “Are you SURE that’s not Locutus?”
Sheesh, and I was upset about Minnesota’s Ellison — I didn’t know that Virginia was electing BORG to the legislature. Did I miss the part where he says
“Resistance is futile.”?
CyberCipher on January 16, 2007 at 7:49 PM
Sorry but I happen to agree with his assessment. I am Spanish and German and my family came to America from 1890-1905. Yet, I am always lumped into the “Remember what YOU did 400 years ago” black mantra. I say BS.
Furthermore, I love the way the left tries to make you a racist if you hold that view. It’s PC BS gone wild. I also love how blacks and liberals try to imply that nothing has changed between now and the forty years since the civil rights movement ended. Blacks have more opportunities than anyone other race in the US sans the American Indians. BTW, can anyone point to an example of a white person getting to college using affirmative action?
x95b10 on January 16, 2007 at 7:50 PM
whether jews or romans killed jesus is a stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid discussion.
the reason why the “jews killed jesus ” conciet is so retarded is because it sets the crucifixion up as something done to “us” by “them.”
clue:
THERE WAS NO FLIPPING “US” THEN! “US” WERE THE ROMANS!!! AS FAR AS “WE” WERE CONCERNED, IT WAS JUST A BUNCH OF JEW ON JEW DRAMA!!!
the whole reconstruction of the crucifixion as something the jews did to “christians” – which didn’t yet exist – IS NOTHING BUT a contrivance designed to JUSTIFY ANTI-JEWISH VIOLENCE!!!
so when you actually try to pretend that there is a valid analogy in this demented fossil’s remarks which can be somehow seen in a dispassionate light as being free of anti-semitism, you are either a more dedicated party apologist than a million katie curicks, or you are a stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid f**king retard.
or you’re a nazi sockpuppet.
jummy on January 16, 2007 at 7:53 PM
Why do I feel like I’m about to feed a troll?
——–
Ouabam – Your simplistic breakdown of US slavery is also somewhat offensive. Whites did it so whites need to apologize?
Do you suppose there is some “White Club” out there that all white people secretly belong to in which we decide which policies we will and won’t inflict on people?
What about the white people living in the US that migrated to the US after the Civil War? Do they owe anyone an apology? After all, they are white?
What about black people who are descended from some of the black slave owners? You do know that there were black slave owners, right? In fact, some of them were former slaves themselves who, upon being freed, got some slaves of their own? So, do their descendents get to be apologized to, or do they have to apologize?
What about black people of mixed ancestry? Since many of their ancestors are white, are they then responsible for apologizing for ‘white people’? If not, why are they not being held responsible for what their ancestors did just as you believe “Whites” should be?
If you are a migrant from Africa that came after slavery ended, do you have to plug your ears while “Whites” apologize, or do you get to be apologized to by virtue of the color of your skin (Wasn’t one of the purposes of the Civil Rights movement to STOP telling people they had to or didn’t have to do things based soley on the color of their skin?).
If you are a black American that is descended from the African slave traders, are you apologizing or being apologized to?
Do you consider the enormous loss of life and treasure during the Civil War (which, while it wasn’t the sole reason, was fought in part over slavery) to be an effort to make ammends? If so, do the “Whites” who can prove that they had a direct relative fight in this war get excused from the big “White apology”?
While were on that topic, if your White ancestor was injured while fighting a contingent of black soldiers fighting for the Confederacy, does someone owe you an apology? Or are you still Whitey McWhiteman and therefore the only group that is culpable?
BONUS QUESTION: How exactly would an apology from people that were not involved in slavery to people that were not involved in slavery solve any of the problems (i.e. 70% illegitimacy rate, high school drop out rate, crime, etc) that black Americans are facing today?
JadeNYU on January 16, 2007 at 7:54 PM
So do I need to apologize to my boss for slavery or not?
Vincenzo on January 16, 2007 at 7:54 PM
Okay, let’s add to the fun – didn’t the Native Americans keep slaves as well?
jeffshultz on January 16, 2007 at 7:57 PM
If slavery did not take place and all blacks were still in Africa, imagine the racial intention in the world. They would be treated worse than muslims. Overall, colonalism helped break the cultural tension. Colonalism came at a time when language barrier was preventing unity among africans. Countries like Ethopia that defeated all its colonial masters are not great shape compared to South Africa.
Ouabam on January 16, 2007 at 8:00 PM
Also, I fear that I may be one of the people being accused of being an anti-semite.
If I’m not, forgive my sensitivity.
If I am, bite me.
There is absolutely nothing anti-semitic about an (admittedly debatable) historical fact. Are the people saying that Romans killed Jesus anti-Roman (or anti-Italian)?
If you want to object to my presentation of the history, that is quite alright.
If you want to call me names, you’re on the wrong board. Head over to the DU if that’s the best you can do.
JadeNYU on January 16, 2007 at 8:01 PM
i need to smack that guy upside the head with a cane
Defector01 on January 16, 2007 at 8:02 PM
My collie would like to remind everyone that
I hate to admit that my dog watches those kind of movies.
CyberCipher on January 16, 2007 at 8:05 PM
My main point is, “This is the equivalent of singling out one race.” The other point is that we still believe that we have a white government.
Ouabam on January 16, 2007 at 8:06 PM
He’s BORG.
No doubt about it.
Borg.
seejanemom on January 16, 2007 at 8:06 PM
do you agree with the premise that bad things are okay when done my non-whites?
jummy on January 16, 2007 at 8:07 PM
That picture..I dunno. Kinda looks like Captain Picard when he got captured and converted by the Borg.
We are the Borg. We will assimilate your culture. You will get over it. Resistance is futile.
eek..run away..run away.
austinnelly on January 16, 2007 at 8:07 PM
I don’t see what the big fuss about what he said was… oh wait, he is a white male, probably Christian, now I see it…
THIS IS A DISGRACE!!!!
Jared_MA on January 16, 2007 at 8:11 PM
Who rounded up the slaves and sold them in the first place? We want the dealers, not the users.
R D on January 16, 2007 at 8:11 PM
The answer to this question lies Thomas Sowell Book, “Self Congratulation as a basis for social policy.” He explains the craziness in this situation. Blacks might need to file charges based on this apology to recieve compensation for the impact of slavery. It should be worth trillions.
Ouabam on January 16, 2007 at 8:12 PM
Alright, let’s take a break here for a minute. Every race, every creed, every ethnic group can point to another group and say you’re guilty. And this advances civilization how? What do you think is going on in the Balkans right now? 500 years of hatred for your clan did this to my clan. The Middle East? Your sect did this to my sect. Don’t agree with what the man said, fine. Agree with what the man said, fine. This should not mean that anyone who holds an opinion one way or the other is an anti-semite, racist, liberal troll, or any other name one can think of. We are all too thin-skinned, to ready to be offended. Let’s all get over ourselves here and talk about what’s really important……
Do I have a shot with Halle Barry??????
ritethinker on January 16, 2007 at 8:15 PM
Does anybody realize that not all of the impacts of slavery were bad. Slavery was awful, no reasonable mind can dispute that. But if it wasn’t for slavery, people like Al Sharpton couldn’t take thousands and thousands of dollars from low-income black citizens and buy expensive suits.
Jared_MA on January 16, 2007 at 8:15 PM
Not if I get there first.
CyberCipher on January 16, 2007 at 8:20 PM
I advise you to go to http://www.singlesofhollywood.com .
Ouabam on January 16, 2007 at 8:21 PM
NO ROSIE NO CARE
Vincenzo on January 16, 2007 at 8:26 PM
Wait. Jews killed christ? When did this happen? Have I not been paying attention? I’m so confused.
lorien1973 on January 16, 2007 at 8:27 PM
He didnt say anything against Jews, he was simply using a point in history as an example. His point was right. Shake the political correctness out of your mind & read the story again.
DwnSouthJukin on January 16, 2007 at 8:29 PM
So what’s the problem. Or does nobody understand the concept of “analogy” anymore?
Here’s a primer for those who failed to grow a brain:
Jews apologizing for the death of Christ = ABSURD.
Whites apologizing for slavery = ABSURD.
There.
It’s not all that hard if you try, even if your job description includes saying “do you want fries with that?” a lot.
Misha I on January 16, 2007 at 8:30 PM
I don’t get the Jewish legislator’s point. Certainly he isn’t saying that in the year 2350 Jew’s should be asking for reparations for the Holocaust… is he?
DaveS on January 16, 2007 at 8:33 PM
My collie says that neither the Jews nor the Romans killed Jesus. How’s that I said? He said to read this:
My collie scares me sometimes.
CyberCipher on January 16, 2007 at 8:37 PM
CyberCipher – Point taken. But, Jesus was Jewish…ergo… ;)
For the more sensitive among us, that’s meant as a joke.
JadeNYU on January 16, 2007 at 8:40 PM
let’s move on then to this empty-headed answer to slavery and jim crow, “just get over it already.”
let’s note the contrast between “jews killed christ” and “slavery – oops – get over it.” one is somehow meant to be understood as analogous to the other, but the two are completely unlike one another. can you see how?
yes. you see: whereas one is a completely fake contrivance of group victimhood devised a thousand years ago about something which happened two thousand years ago, the other references the the actual and historicly undisputed sale and abuse of human chattel with the aid and protection of our government, and which persisted more than one hundered years without perturbing our republican forbears. once slavery came to perturb the republic, it was replaced with a regime of enforced social subserviance. people who were contemporary with that second leg of this real actual abuse of one group by another still walk among us. slavery itself is only one generation behind us.
so the analogy is not apt.
next up: “get over it? go f**k yourself – why exploitation of slavery by black racists doesn’t axiomaticly demand ‘ballance’ in the form of churlish dissmissals by white racists.”
jummy on January 16, 2007 at 8:44 PM
WWRD
(What Would Rosie Do?)
I’m really lost as to why people are so head over heels over this guy. Aren’t we supposed to be the ones who aren’t so easily offended? Isn’t what he’s saying a valid point(no need for modern day people to apologize to other modern day people for the sins of their fathers(in this case great great grandfathers))?
Maybe I’m a bigot, but I don’t think so.
Vincenzo on January 16, 2007 at 8:52 PM
Ouabama, I’ll ask it again… WHAT ARE YOU???
.
and mom, whats a borg?
…now you got me doing it….asking Q’s I might not want the answer.
p.s. i before e except after c or when pronounced “A” as in neighbor and weigh…
shooter on January 16, 2007 at 9:03 PM
There, there now.
Everyone knows that white Amerikkkans are responsible for everything that was, is, and will be wrong with the world.
Feel better now?
when the pc babies cry, just give ‘em their bottle.
Scot on January 16, 2007 at 9:16 PM
JadeNYU
You contradicted yourself. If it’s debatable then it’s not an established historical fact.
At any rate Spengler was speaking in the VA legislature, not in church. It is inappropriate for a government representative in the state capitol to declare a controversial religious belief — particularly one that is harmful to another religion — as fact.
aunursa on January 16, 2007 at 9:16 PM
dude, what happened 350 years ago?
seriously, this kind of sophistry is disgusting.
blacks were still slaves in the u.s. 140 years ago. if that was so long ago, why reach arbitrarily more than twice as far back in time? its because you know as well as i do that, socially, it wasn’t that long ago at all.
jummy on January 16, 2007 at 9:17 PM
and they weren’t asking for reparations. nobody’s property was at stake. they were trying to put together a ceremonial apology.
its not even your state and you wheel out the most tendentious arguments against the very prospect of “whites” (reallly, the government, but you all keep saying “whites”) electing to apologise symbolicly.
who needs to get over what again?
jummy on January 16, 2007 at 9:26 PM
He has somewhat of a point – no matter how badly articulated. The fact is, we should never forget blacks were once held as slaves just as we should never forget the holocaust and what was responsible for that. Note I said “what”. Yes, whites owned the “what” of slavery just as Nazi’s owned the “what” of anti-semitism, but the problem goes beyond a race of people. It’s a perverted social system that allows these things to happen. The lessons we should learn from these things are what ills of society produced (and sustained) them in the first place. Should whites today apologize or pay reparations to blacks for slavery? If they did, would racism end? Would the “problem” this legislator says “blacks…should get over” go away? It’s doubtful. Apologies and reparations do not address the real issue. Let’s not overlook history’s lessons in the process.
thedecider on January 16, 2007 at 9:35 PM
How’sa about we all adhere to the current Conservative ideal that freedom is the best way to live?
Vincenzo on January 16, 2007 at 9:44 PM
Oy, I need this shmendrick bringing me into his wack analogies like a loch in kup. With the Holocaust denial fest in Iran, and Jimma’s Apartheid book, and anti-semtism on the rise in Europe and Anti-Zionism in vogue in the Universities, excuse me if I don’t embrace Mr. Hargrove stirring call to get over it. Did he really need to bring me into this to make this point? There was no other to make this point then bringing up an event that has been the cause of anti-semetic violence throughout the last couple of millenia? Really, there was no other way to make this anaology without bringing up the whole Jews killed Christ thing? Just asking. Mr. Hargrove has the right to his free speech and I have the right to call him a jackass and real smooth politician.
Shtetl G on January 16, 2007 at 9:45 PM
Technically he can make any analogy he wants but to roll out the “Jews killed Jesus” argument while a second Holocaust is being devised by Iran seems kind of tasteless to me.
As for slavery, I think America should launch a war against it and harass slave traders in the Middle East and North Africa. When Lincoln wanted to save the Union he rightly calculated that opposition to slavery would gain him a massive moral advantage. (Sorry if this sounds ultra-cynical.)
I think the points at which radical Islam is most vulnerable are women’s rights, bestiality and (especially) slavery. Would the left oppose a War on Slavery? Well it would be a litmus test on the depravity to which they’ve sunken. I suppose they could always claim it was something to do with oil.
It’s nothing to do with economics. It’s tribal warfare. The reason I sometimes get upset about anti-Catholic commenters on Hot Air is because here in Ireland people get murdered over this kind of thing.
aengus on January 16, 2007 at 9:48 PM
Fine, Jummy–I apologize for my white ancestors. Whoops–they didn’t have slaves. Should I be feeling racial guilt? What about my great great etc. grandfather, from Denmark, who most probably was a viking and enslaved some celtic or english person in a raid? Do I have to apologize to the Brits for that? And gee, long long ago, most likely one of my ancestors was a slave in Iraq during the Babylonian captivity–should I ask for reparations and apologizes from them? It’s a deep emotional stress, you know, all those vicious Chariot drivers whipping great uncle-Sameul or whoever he was.
And I’m sure that somewhere along the lines, my ancestors have oppressed or been oppressed numerous times. What do I do? Should I be apologized to or do the apologizing? Gah, my mind is sooo confused! Perhaps I’ll just ignore it and do my best to be nice myself, since I can’t change the past.
Vanceone on January 16, 2007 at 9:55 PM
The whites do not own the “what” of slavery. The slaveholders own this, including the slaveholders in the United states, Europe, Africa and wherever else this evil was practiced. Obviously in the United states the slaveholders were white. However, millions of white families came to this country after the fact and do not appreciate being saddled with the guilt of slavery they did not commit.
As for racism (from all parties), I am not sure much can be done about this until people can talk openly about race relations without being labeled a racist.
jman on January 16, 2007 at 9:58 PM
It is precisely because the whites were in power that they owned the problem. Of course, not every white owned a slave. Not every German supported the holocaust. That wasn’t the point! The point is that the party in power (whites, Nazi’s, etc…) own the problem.
thedecider on January 16, 2007 at 10:02 PM
you know, i don’t think i wan’t to shake and make all “big-tent” coalition with people who believe that a cogent argument can be based on an eigth-century diecide libel. the “let’s kill some congressmembers if the “amnesty” bill passes” thing isn’t something i want to be associated with either.
the conservative movement has developed a thick crust of barnicles. people who don’t thinkk about issues but respond to cues about “bibles ‘bortions and beaners.” they need to be scraped off.
jummy on January 16, 2007 at 10:06 PM
Not ALL whites were in power, so why do ALL whites own slavery?
I agree with this, but being white is not a party (that you join and support with your free will) so I do not think this applies.
My point is that the slaveholders themselves are responsible for horrors of slavery – not the whites today.
jman on January 16, 2007 at 10:14 PM
real quick jman, how is a worshipping fan of abu izzadeen compliscit in terrorism?
jummy on January 16, 2007 at 10:19 PM
“… Whoops–they didn’t have slaves. Should I be feeling racial guilt? What about my great great etc. grandfather, from Denmark, who most probably was a viking and enslaved some celtic or english person in a raid? Do I have to apologize …”
who demanded of you to take sole individual responsibility for anything? i just don’t understand this sort of reaction. its not rational.
jummy on January 16, 2007 at 10:24 PM
Just the sort of thinking that leads a society to slavery and anti-semitism. It starts by placing an entire group of people into neat little categories defined by ideology – just as you’ve done here. Careful jman. You’re looking more like the kind of person you say you don’t want to be associated with.
thedecider on January 16, 2007 at 10:27 PM
What a schmuck.
spmat on January 16, 2007 at 10:29 PM
Ouabam: “If slavery did not take place and all blacks were still in Africa, imagine the racial intention in the world. They would be treated worse than muslims.”
You’re implications are, for lack of a better word … racist, to say the least. By the way, muslims are killing people all over the world indiscriminately. Kinda hard to find someone being treated worse than that.
Ouabam: “The other point is that we still believe that we have a white government.”
Who is we? And why must you see color in everything there is? The US is 70% white. If you desire a different shade for the majority, go emigrate wherever the shade of skin you desire is. MLK sought a world where actions, not skin color determined someones worth. The US, for all the negativity constantly heaped upon it by denizens of multiculturalism, consistently strives to improve itself and reach that goal. Why don’t you be a team player. As far as I’m concerned, that was the point Del. Frank D. Hargrove was trying to get across.
darwin on January 16, 2007 at 10:29 PM
Of course they are complicit because they allow it to happen. The whites today are were not around to support/oppose slavery. That is my point.
If you want to talk about the social oppression of the black people 60 years ago, you may have more solid ground to stand on. I would not tell people who survived that to “get over it” because it was horrible. But I believe that today, anyone in this great country can be whatever they want to be, provided they do what it takes to get it. Being a victim will get you nowhere.
jman on January 16, 2007 at 10:31 PM
While we’re all throwing blame around, let’s not forget the Africans themselves who sold their neighbors to begin with. If they hadn’t offered, none of it may have happened to begin with.
darwin on January 16, 2007 at 10:32 PM
I don’t see the difference, to be honest. One was maybe 5 or 6 generations ago, one was 10 or more generations ago… certainly noone is alive who is less than 2 generations removed.
The point stands.
DaveS on January 16, 2007 at 10:33 PM
Demanding an apology from all of us, even from those of us whose ancestors died to free the slaves, like mine, is not rational. 600,000 Civil War dead is plenty of an “apology” from America.
I suppose the individual states that enacted discriminatory laws afterward, and enforced them for almost a century, ought to apologize for that.
Spiny Norman on January 16, 2007 at 10:35 PM
What about weird?
By the way, how about a straight across trade, Chuck Hagel for Hargrove? Your boy seems harmless (if a little on the slow side), Chuck is just plain dangerous…and an idiot.
serenity on January 16, 2007 at 10:35 PM
To play Devil’s advocate… would you be willing to extend that logic to the present day, where US citizens are playing the role of Africa with respect to the illegal immigration issue?
DaveS on January 16, 2007 at 10:35 PM
How ’bout we just pay everybody in the whole damn US $20,000.00 to shut the f__ up. It worked with the Japanese.
serenity on January 16, 2007 at 10:38 PM
To play Devil’s advocate… would you be willing to extend that logic to the present day, where US citizens are playing the role of Africa with respect to the illegal immigration issue?
What? Sorry if I’m a little slow, but what do US citizens have to do with illegals?
darwin on January 16, 2007 at 10:40 PM
i’m glad we agree completely there. and we agree that individual agency is a more powerful determinant than race. we even agree that to many blacks obstruct themselves with racial barriers which aren’t there.
here’s what i’m saying. they were there – they’re not mere figments. and those barriers aren’t like rocks or icefloes. they were often hidden from view until someone took you aside and confided. the ammendments to the constitution were cold, contractual things. perhaps the only way to communicate that these invisible barriers are no longer there is to apologise as a community, or state or nation.
maybe that’s flimsy and sentimental. but it can’t be too much. it can’t be, as some of the posters here are treating it, an injustice.
jummy on January 16, 2007 at 10:45 PM
He doesn’t hold the Jews responsible for killing Christ and is aware that past generations of Christians did hold descendents responsible…like some want to hold descendents responsible for slavery.
I’m not outraged that he doesn’t hold Jews responsible for killing Christ.
Perchant on January 16, 2007 at 10:50 PM
of course the history of slavery is never completely surveyed so as to include the actual slavers who delivered the slaves to the shore, or the british effort to shut those slavers down.
but that is a far cry from saying that cotten would have been picked by wage-earning white men if they never existed or that it’s all the slavers’ fault that the dutch, english etc. bought slaves from africa.
jummy on January 16, 2007 at 10:55 PM
it is very forgiving of him.
there is no analogy which could illustrate how stupid this is.
jummy on January 16, 2007 at 11:04 PM
Shhhhh….Remember Blacks and Jews are a protected class…except when Jews are defending their homeland, then they are Hitler type of evil.
*rolleyes*
Tim Burton on January 16, 2007 at 11:07 PM
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »