As far as it not affecting me, I’m not sure how you can know that. I live in California, and my current job is on its way to India.

Well that is free trade. Moving a job is not something I have a problem with. Importing labor to undercut Americans is what I have problem with.

It’s not clear to me which foreigners you’re upset by. Illegal immigrants, who are predominantly doing manual labor? Jobs outsourced overseas? Legal immigrants doing high tech work in America

? Sandberg

How about ALL OF THE ABOVE!!

I don’t know how old you are Sandberg but when I was growing up, jobs were 9-5, with health care, retirement benefits and pensions…if you see any left please let me know!!!! (OOPs Too late past the age of corporate consent)
Tell the auto workers laid off how great the economy is…tell those people losing their homes which will probably now be occupied by twenty Mexicans!! Sorry but the boys in charge are not exceptionally bright. You can trust them if you want-I don’t!
Illegals doing just manual labor-got news for you, many of those jobs USED to be good paying career positions in construction and manufacturing ( not any more-Americans pushed out ), I know several myself. And those contractors illegally employing these people forcing out those who do play by the rules,
Not gonna argue with you anymore, you will be enlightened soon enough. Meantime I am going to send faxes to representatives who will throw them in the garbage choosing to screw the Americans who built this country.
I will add this, I do NOT know how on earth Michelle, Tancredo, Buchanon , and all the others who saw this coming a long time ago can contain their frustration and outrage as they see this country virtually destroyed. I can barely keep my blood pressure down . It must drive Michelle insane to see them deliberately ignore the obvious anarchy to come.

By the way whilst we all argue back and forth 10,000 or more Illegals have crossed the border tonight…………so let’s see 10% of Mexicans are already in the US, 15 % of Brazilians …..and if they stall long enough discussion of a North American Union is a moot point…..Done Deal!
Hasta La Vista baby!!

You don’t want to debate me. I have that wretched patina of ‘retard.’ Surely you don’t feel like lowering yourself?

As for concession, if it makes you feel better to think you’ve ‘won’ by simply making yourself too noxious to tolerate, then congratulations!

You’re a winner.

Slublog on January 11, 2007 at 10:43 PM

Cop out. You have points to discuss in this thread. C’mon Slublog, do it. You called for “debate”.

The fine art of obsfuscation.

Dude, I’m not trying to be dishonest. I’m just not all that smart. I am honestly losing track of what we’re debating. I had thought you were talking about outsourcing, so I addressed that. Now I think that’s not what you were talking about. So I asked.

As far as it not affecting me, I’m not sure how you can know that. I live in California, and my current job is on its way to India.

When did I do any of that Slublog? When? Where in my post did I state anything of the sort? The fact is that you did not actually disagree with me. Your post was BS. It was your pathetic attempt to belittle my post; that is what got you lambasted. Again “you’re being rude” is not a response. Grow a set will ya.

Actually, my post was not directed specifically at you, but was an expression of my frustration. Arguing this issue brings out the worst in everyone, since we are all set in our opinions.

And your “grow a set” comments are yet another example of your lack of civility. I’ll make you a deal – I’ll “grow a set” just as soon as you grow up.

All right. There’s only one way to settle this. In the interst of peace, let me propose that each side in this debate take turns kicking the other side in the junk. The last poster standing is right.

Now that we’ve drifted from talking about a North American Union into talking about free trade, we’re still apparenly debating or talking past each other.

It’s not clear to me which foreigners you’re upset by. Illegal immigrants, who are predominantly doing manual labor? Jobs outsourced overseas? Legal immigrants doing high tech work in America?

sandberg on January 11, 2007 at 10:41 PM

The fine art of obsfuscation.

You wrote:

And guess what? US unemployment is very low and our economy is doing well. Why do you think that might be?

I addressed both unemployment and the state of the economy, DIRECTLY. You either have a response or you do not? Which is it? This whole I’m to rude is such a freaking cop out.

While I disagreed with your viewpoint,

Wait, wait, wait… Now I see where my button was pushed. It was the disingenuousness of your post, and your attempt to assign attributes to my post that do not even exist. You actually are not disagreeing with me…

The subject is worth debating. All the people that cal this a conspiracy theory do so because they think they can make people shutup.

Where’s the debate? Every time someone expresses doubts about the NAU, they are told to ‘wake up,’ or mocked for their ‘blindness’ to ‘what’s really going on.’

Some debate.

Slublog on January 11, 2007 at 10:11 AM

When did I do any of that Slublog? When? Where in my post did I state anything of the sort? The fact is that you did not actually disagree with me. Your post was BS. It was your pathetic attempt to belittle my post; that is what got you lambasted. Again “you’re being rude” is not a response. Grow a set will ya.

Or… does this mean you concede?

If I’m in a bad mood and I find you to be overly rude, I’m just going to “concede” very quickly. And then you can pat yourself on the back for “winning”, but the end result will be that neither of us will have exchanged any information. But that’ll probably happen soon enough anyway, as this thread moves its way off the bottom of the main page…

As for concession, if it makes you feel better to think you’ve ‘won’ by simply making yourself too noxious to tolerate, then congratulations!

You’re a winner.

It’s not clear to me which foreigners you’re upset by. Illegal immigrants, who are predominantly doing manual labor? Jobs outsourced overseas? Legal immigrants doing high tech work in America?

Are you a dick? Try being polite to people who disagree with you.

Yes. I waterdown my opinion for no one. Run up or shut up sandberg.

While I disagreed with your viewpoint, I do not think I was rude, so your comments are unprovoked and unwarranted.

So I’m a meany? HAHA. C’mon Slublog respond directly to my post… The “I’ll take the high road of manners” approach, instead of engaging me is WEAK. You said you wanted a debate?

“You’re not nice” doesn’t count. Or… does this mean you concede?

However, they do have the benefit of irony, given Freelander’s comment just above yours. That’s a saving grace of sorts, really

Do you agree it is you who has the ball in his court and refuses to return a response?

Are you retarded? My post has 3 debateable points. I made my response to what Allah posted,it is up to you to respond. You do understand how a debate works right? Some debate indeed…

While I disagreed with your viewpoint, I do not think I was rude, so your comments are unprovoked and unwarranted. However, they do have the benefit of irony, given Freelander’s comment just above yours. That’s a saving grace of sorts, really.

Because I have seen companies pulling Asians Indians into their ranks at an alarming rate.

Me too. I work in software. I know we’re outsourcing more than ever before.

And guess what? US unemployment is very low and our economy is doing well. Why do you think that might be?

There are reasons economists think free trade is a good thing. You should look into them yourself, because I don’t have the patience to teach you economics here.

sandberg on January 11, 2007 at 8:50 PM

Please explain to me the effect importing low priced Asians has on wages, as I’m completely unaware?

Unemployment is low, what is the unemployment rate of Americans in fields flooded by illegal aliens?

David Watts, 20, an unemployed high school graduate from Raleigh, has failed to land a job since his layoff from a call center earlier this winter — even though he has several years of work experience. He suspects his difficulties are due in part to his expectation of higher wages than the $6 or $7 an hour immigrants will work for.

“Employers want to spend less money on labor so their profits are higher,” he said last week. “It’s very frustrating.”

Nationally, the unemployment rate among workers between 20 and 24 is 8.2 percent, nearly twice the rate for all workers. The jobless rate among African-American men is even higher.

http://www.newsobserver.com/1155/story/411982.html

Yeah I’m a real fan of “free trade”. Any company can legally bring workers into the U.S. but to do is to advertise the rates at which jobs are being offered. Why do such a thing when it is easier to break the law knowing they will not suffer any consequences?

What is the unemployment rate among teens?

Between 2000 and 2005, 4.1 million immigrant workers arrived from abroad, accounting for 86 percent of the net increase in the total number of employed persons (16 and older), the highest share ever recorded in the United States.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back806.html

One more point about IT and Asians. If a shortage existed wouldn’t all the capable Americans be employed while the shortages are filled by immigrants? Why is it I can see Asians being brought into companies and I personnally know Americans that can fill those jobs?

Your point about unemployment is a strawman. It is only a useless talking point once the layers are peeled back. But it is not important because it does not affect you.

The second half of your sentence, our economy is doing well. Yes the numbers are great. The market looks good. How do you get awesome growth without low inflation? Hmmm… Since I know nothing about economics I’ll guess it is due to the largest single expense employers have, labor, being squeezed downward by an inflated supply of labor. How could that be a bad thing? Well if you are immune to the cultural consequences then you have no problem with that, but I do not and if I have to pay more for a good or service I’ll do it to neuter the illegal immigrant lobby. The politcal power they weild is a threat. The socialist policies and race baiting politcs that they bring to the table are completely unacceptable to me.

The problem with the low priced labor fueling a stock boom, that is not a boom for medium and lowskilled workers that are facing much higher unemployment due to competition from illegals. But the fact that low inflation cannot be sustained idefinitely. The cost of production will rise, oil prices are not stagnant. A guy that works in HVAC was interviewed on the radio he made $18/hr in the 1980’s which was a good income then; his 2006 $/hr? $21/hr! You may be comfortable in your software job today, how comfortable will you be when your income is only increasing at 25% of inflation for a decade or two. The continued use of the HB visa program will ensure that programming jobs will face a bloated employee pool.

Me too. I work in software. I know we’re outsourcing more than ever before.

And guess what? US unemployment is very low and our economy is doing well. Why do you think that might be?

There are reasons economists think free trade is a good thing. You should look into them yourself, because I don’t have the patience to teach you economics here.

Are you a dick? Try being polite to people who disagree with you.

My post has 3 debateable points.

Then spell them out more clearly, so simpletons like myself can understand. The one and only vaguely clear point I can find in your post is a quote from that government site where they propose to make policy recommendations in the future. Somehow, this implies that the US constitution is about to be ignored and the Senate bypassed, but I’m a little unclear on the details.

Hate it when that trickle down effect trickles into India, China and Mexico bypassing the good ole USA…….

This, of course, is not what is happening. Economics is not a zero-sum game. There is not a fixed amount of wealth and jobs in the world. This sort of protectionist thinking is why unemployment is so high in Europe.

I’m all in favor of putting a stop to illegal immigration. What I object to is anti-capitalist conspiracy theory mongering. It’s harmful.

sandberg on January 11, 2007 at 2:44 PM

That’s not happening? Are you sure or are you just saying that? Because I have seen companies pulling Asians Indians into their ranks at an alarming rate. I supplied all the new PC’s to new employess and would joke “Don’t they hire Americans anymore?”

Is it an anti-capitalist conspiracy to acknowledge the constant illegal importation of low priced labor? It it anti-capitalist to acknowledge how these illegal activities are undercutting American wages and throwing our economy out of whack, limiting progress and stifling competition.

Tell me how is it anti-capitalist to know that if America were enforcing its borders the goals of the SPP would have already been achieved? [I'll explain if you need it]

Where’s the debate? Every time someone expresses doubts about the NAU, they are told to ‘wake up,’ or mocked for their ‘blindness’ to ‘what’s really going on.’

Some debate.

Slublog on January 11, 2007 at 10:11 AM

Are you retarded? My post has 3 debateable points. I made my response to what Allah posted,it is up to you to respond. You do understand how a debate works right? Some debate indeed…

Those who claim the NAU concept is a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory have primarily employed ad-hominem flames as their side of the argument.

Those who claim that there are unacceptable activities afoot that U.S. citizens should be demanding more accountability about have primarily employed governmental site links, study links, reference quotes of investigators, etc. Rep. Tancredo spent the effort to write a book on the illegal immigration subject, and has done much more research than his detractors on that and the SPP. He knows whereof he speaks.

The most vocal opponents, such as Medved, can be demonstrated to have an open-borders, globalist mindset, so just exactly how else should we expect them to respond to someone pointing at the man behind the curtain?

If I’m the debate referee, it’s no contest.

As for free market capitalism Sandberg, all for it….now if only we could get that here in the US like China does!

I was trying to have a serious discussion.

Hate it when that trickle down effect trickles into India, China and Mexico bypassing the good ole USA…….

This, of course, is not what is happening. Economics is not a zero-sum game. There is not a fixed amount of wealth and jobs in the world. This sort of protectionist thinking is why unemployment is so high in Europe.

I’m all in favor of putting a stop to illegal immigration. What I object to is anti-capitalist conspiracy theory mongering. It’s harmful.