Moderate Muslim preachers really not so moderate, Channel 4 (UK) finds
posted at 11:36 am on January 8, 2007 by Allahpundit
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They smuggled video cameras into mosques to see just how peaceful that message of peace is when they think the kaffir isn’t looking. Results: similar to what the Czechs found when they performed the same experiment eight months ago.
It airs next Monday night. We’ll have a clip here, I’m sure.
Secret video footage reveals Muslim preachers exhorting followers to prepare for jihad, to hit girls for not wearing the hijab, and to create a ’state within a state’. Many of the preachers are linked to the Wahhabi strain of Islam practised in Saudi Arabia, which funds a number of Britain’s leading Islamic institutions.
A forthcoming Channel 4 Dispatches programme paints an alarming picture of how preachers in some of Britain’s most moderate mosques are urging followers to reject British laws in favour of those of Islam. Leaders of the mosques have expressed concern at the preachers’ activities, saying they were unaware such views were being disseminated.
At the Sparkbrook mosque, run by UK Islamic Mission (UKIM), an organisation that maintains 45 mosques in Britain and which Tony Blair has said ‘is extremely valued by the government for its multi-faith and multicultural activities’, a preacher is captured on film praising the Taliban. In response to the news that a British Muslim solider was killed fighting the Taliban, the speaker declares: ‘The hero of Islam is the one who separated his head from his shoulders.’
Another speaker says Muslims cannot accept the rule of non-Muslims. ‘You cannot accept the rule of the kaffir [non-Muslim],’ a preacher, Dr Ijaz Mian, tells a meeting held within the mosque. ‘We have to rule ourselves and we have to rule the others.’…
At the Islamic bookstore at Regent’s Park Mosque in central London, DVDs of a preacher called Sheikh Yasin are sold. In one DVD, Yasin, who is promoted on the mosque’s website, accuses missionaries from the World Health Organisation and Christian groups of putting the ‘Aids virus’ in the medicine of African people, ‘which is a conspiracy’…
Another preacher says: ‘The time is fast approaching where the tables are going to turn and the Muslims are going to be in the position of being uppermost in strength and, when that happens, people won’t get killed - unjustly.’
A UKIM spokesman said he was shocked, shocked, to find radicalism being preached in its facilities.
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Moderate Muslim preachers not really so moderate
This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone … the “moderate” muslim is a myth.
darwin on January 8, 2007 at 11:39 AM
“A UKIM spokesman said he was shocked, shocked, to find radicalism being preached in its facilities.”
Yaaaawn … how long are we going to let these nuts string us along? They lie and deceive at every turn yet people want so desperately to believe them.
darwin on January 8, 2007 at 11:41 AM
Another indication that the majority of “moderate” Muslims are actually “inactive” but fundamentally support the Islamofacist.
The basic tenants of Islam are incompatable with a democracy and tolerance of others. The true position of the “moderate” Muslim needs to be explored more completly to determine to waht degree they support the Islamofacist, or are receptive to supporting the government of the country in which they reside.
omegaram on January 8, 2007 at 11:42 AM
I’m shocked. Shocked I say.
Griz on January 8, 2007 at 11:49 AM
Islam is not moderate. True muslims know they have to kill the kaffirs.
infidel on January 8, 2007 at 11:50 AM
‘…when that happens, people won’t get killed - unjustly.’
Is it me or is that the definition of an oxymoron?
I guess killing ‘justly’ would be for such offenses as…NOT believing in Islam?
HarryStar on January 8, 2007 at 11:50 AM
well they weren’t screaming “nuke the non believers” so obviously they’re moderate … right?
One Angry Christian on January 8, 2007 at 11:53 AM
Bogart as Rick: Lewie, what right do you have to shut me down?
Aiken as Lewie: I’m shocked, shocked to find there is gambling going on in Rick’s…
Saloon worker to Lewie: Here are your winnings sir……
Is this 1940 all over again, am I in Casablanca????????
ritethinker on January 8, 2007 at 11:58 AM
Like most facists, moderates sit on the sideline, quietly. And when the facists take power they attack ruthlessly, and the moderates become supporters. If the moderates in the Mosques spoke out, they would be banned from the Mosque, or shunned by the followers, or killed. No other opinion is allowed, not unlike the extreme left on our campuses.
One example: Duke LaCrosse. Prof., nice and quiet, when they thought they had the power, they attacked. Now they slink back in their hole, and wait for another opportunity.
The Muslim clergy will be outraged, at being discovered, they will slink back into their hole, and wait for another opportunity.
Those brave souls who took the video, may they never be found out by the clergy.
right2bright on January 8, 2007 at 12:17 PM
Yes but James Baker the Turd thinks that if Israel would make concessions -all would be well and we could sing Kumbaya.
Hilts on January 8, 2007 at 12:22 PM
Maybe we should just talk to these preachers, I mean, they seem reasonable. (sarcasm)
Chad on January 8, 2007 at 12:23 PM
Thge only moderate Muslim is a former Muslim.
DwnSouthJukin on January 8, 2007 at 12:23 PM
It is widely acknowledged that there are indeed “moderate” Muslims. If this indeed is the case what is the definition of a “moderate” Muslim, what are their views on portions of their faith that call for Islamic law to be the law of the land and that all be converted to, or subjugated by, Islam?
Even Robert Spencer indicates there are indeed “moderate” Muslims. Many questions arise when we consider such a concept - and I have not heard many answers except for a general consensus that the only “moderate” Muslim is a former one.
Perhaps someone will provide insight on this topic.
omegaram on January 8, 2007 at 12:29 PM
Can we try that hidden camera thing here in the states?
frreal on January 8, 2007 at 12:33 PM
Sounds like it may be close to “Open Season” in Britain.
tickleddragon on January 8, 2007 at 12:33 PM
Assimilation doesn’t work, dialogue doesn’t work, muslims in Britain don’t want to be British, they want Britain to become muslim.
The only answer is start deporting. Drop the touchy feely political correctness crap and save the UK. Muslims belong in one place, the middle east.
If we’d start drilling the massive oil reserves we have here we’d never have to set foot in the middle east again.
darwin on January 8, 2007 at 12:36 PM
Wanna know how the “thoughtful” Left is dealing, cognitively, with the unwelcome news that Islam might not be totally benign? By blaming Christianity and making mainstream Christian theology some sort of “American Taliban” in the making or some such similar crap.
Peep the new book releases, homeys. Its all about how this “Christian Nation” is on the verge of some sort of religiously inspired fascism, courtesy of the Brownshirts next door that go to the “fundamentalist” church down the street.
Think I’m kidding? Watch. As it gets harder and harder for the Left to laugh off the very real possibility that the fundamental tenents of Islam make it pretty tough to be a tolerant, good citizen of a liberal Western democracy, they’ll turn to one of their time-tested, favorite plays: moral equivalency. In other words, if Islam is a tough sell for a secular government, well Christianity is even worse!
Of course, they’ll have to contort themselves mightily to do it, but they’re nothing if not limber when it comes to the mental gymnastics.
Fred on January 8, 2007 at 12:48 PM
A moderate is someone who tries to sell you that they have not made up their mind. But they choose the side that brandishes the power. They have no real convictions.
An Example: Many democrats supported the war when launched, now that it is not going so well and public opionion is changing, they are now changing their convictions and becoming “moderates”. The ideal and purpose of the war has not changed, the perception of win/loss has. You can always tell a “moderate” by this phrase; “I am keeping an open mind”.
right2bright on January 8, 2007 at 12:56 PM
All of this bears the question, “Where is the Right to Free Speech in all of this?” Does a ministerimampastorpriest have the right to promote violence, murder and what is tantamount to borderline treason in view of the First Amendment guarantees of freedom of speech and freedom of religion?
Does an Imam have the right to promote this behavior as long as no one acts upon it?
.
GT on January 8, 2007 at 1:01 PM
So Far the definition of a moderate may include:
1) There is no such thing as a “moderate” Muslim, all believe in the domination of othes by Islam and the concept of a “moderate” Muslim is a Myth.
2) A “moderate” Muslim bends to the will of the winning side and will change their position as the wind blows. This type of “moderate” Muslim is without conviction and takes the postion of the stronger party.
3) A “moderate” Muslim is actually an Islamofacist waiting for their opportunity to violently attack the “enemies” of Islam, unbelievers and “infidels” (that’s us) when Islam gains more power in their region.
Did I get this right so far? It would be interesting to see what Robert Spencer defines as “moderate” Muslim.
omegaram on January 8, 2007 at 1:21 PM
In the interest of truth and fairness, there are peaceful muslims. Actually, there are three groups, which in my mind is really only two, of muslims. There are the fascists, the sympathizers, and the frightened. Actually, there are four groups, because there are a few muslim voices out there, Shoebat being one, taking on jihad. As far as I’m concerned, the sympathizers are no different than the ones setting off the IED’s. The frightened are the muslims afraid to speak out because they see what happens to those infidels who do. I understand the fear, but at some point you have to stand and be counted. I still believe at the end of the day the quiet Muslims will have to take the fight to the radicals. They must, must have our full support and resources………..
ritethinker on January 8, 2007 at 1:23 PM
All but the most “liberal” Muslims believe that Islam will dominate the world. This has been promised to them by Allah. The major difference between radical Muslims (jihadis) and “moderate” Muslims (islamists)lies in how they believe the global caliphate should be accomplished. The jihadis want it now and choose to do it militarily. The islamists are willing to do it politcally, but they recognize that the threat of violence facilitates the political process. The infidels are more receptive to their demands when they fear for their lives. The islamists benefit from jihad violence even as they pretend to denounce it.
RedWinged Blackbird on January 8, 2007 at 2:23 PM
Walid Shoebat is not a muslim. He’s an Evangelical Christian convert!
Guardian on January 8, 2007 at 2:31 PM
I am still waiting for the first “moderate muslim” to denounce the acts and rhetoric of the so called radical muslims.
That being the case, I would have to agree with darwin
brtex on January 8, 2007 at 2:55 PM
The term “moderate” is relative. What you and I call a “moderate” Muslim is what most “moderate” Muslims would call a “liberal” Muslim. Moderate Muslims, for the most part, embrace the concept of a global caliphate. While they don’t overtly approve of jihad violence, they view it with quiet acceptance.
RedWinged Blackbird on January 8, 2007 at 3:04 PM
I guess the mucky-muck’s don’t go to mass… er, schul… oh, hell - whatever they call it.
mojo on January 8, 2007 at 3:33 PM
The world will be waiting past when it snows in hell for that one.
Which to most standards is passive encouragement and approval.
We are in a battle for civilization - most just haven’t realize it yet.
Emmett J. on January 8, 2007 at 5:02 PM
There are moderate muslims, it’s just that if they speak out they may be killed. Kind of puts a damper on free speech.
Do you see our Universities moving towards this direction? A correlation in tactics? Can facism and muslimism(my word) co-exist? Discuss.
right2bright on January 8, 2007 at 6:07 PM
I am shocked and saddened – pause, pause LOL- SO - WHERE ARE THESE MODERATE MUSLIMS? Maybe they are the Muslims that Hairplug Biden meets in all of the 7-11’s and gas stations and Donut Shops in Delaware! - Who the EFF wouldn’t have bet on this?
I vote we send Debbie Schlussel into all of the Mosques in the US - with her long blond hair covered and a camera - She had the guts to do it several years ago - NOBODY CARED. I wonder if any Mosque here would not have a sermon like this.
It is like the description of a Family with an alcoholic parent in denial - Big elephant in the living room and everything is cool- let’s just act like it is not happening. AND -Don’t talk about it or we will get this elephant very upset!
iam7545 on January 8, 2007 at 6:43 PM
Guardian, I sit corrected. He brings a strong message to the table, a reformed PLO terrorist telling the world exactly what jihad is and aims to achieve. He and David Horowitz are similar in that they are sounding the warning sirens about the dangers that lurk from the radical left and the jihadists………..
ritethinker on January 8, 2007 at 6:56 PM
Let me try this again. Islam, like most socio-political groups, consists of a right wing (fundamentalists) and a left wing (liberals) with the vast majority somewhere in the middle (moderates). In the case of Islam, the right wing consists of the jihadis and their overt supporters, while the left wing consists of reformists - those who embrace Western values such as democracy and free speech. The vast majority of Muslims, probably about 70-80 percent, are moderates, but their ideology is not moderate by our standards. They are islamists. They embrace the concept of a global caliphate. They are not going to speak out against jihad violence, not because they fear retribution, but because they know it will expedite their cause. The end justifies the means. The “moderate” Muslims that the West keeps looking for are actually “liberal” Muslims. They are the true “small minority of extremists.”
RedWinged Blackbird on January 8, 2007 at 9:22 PM
I believe that many good points have been made on what consistutes a “moderate” Muslim.
Perhaps RedWinged Blackbird on January 8, 2007 at 9:22 PM hit it pretty close to center.
It lead me to the conclusion that not just most, but the vast majority of Muslims are acutally “inactive” and support the Islamofacist at a minimum with their silence, but more realistically provide important support in other ways.
Previous vents have dealt with this topic:
Moderate Muslims discussed by Robert Spencer at: http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/19/moderate-muslims/
The Price of Apostacy at: http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-price-of-apostasy/
And discussions on an Islamic Reformation in the comments at:
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/27/michelle-interviews-mark-steyn-part-two/#comments
Too bad this thread will disappear from the front page on Hot Air but the references are worth looking at.
omegaram on January 8, 2007 at 10:14 PM
When Freedom House investigated mosques across America, they found Saudi Wahhabi hate literature in all of them. All. Of. Them.
The Muslims clerics at each of these mosques were shocked, shocked to find such hate literature in their mosque. Shocked!
I can pretty much guess what kind of venom is being spouted behind the mosque doors in America but I would dearly love “60 Minutes” and other news organizations to go record a few mosque sermons and let us know what they find. This is a ripe situation for one of those old ambush interviews they used to do: Covertly record the imam spouting jihad, overtly interview him giving his peaceful public line of BS, and then confront him with his hate speech. It’s gonna take a non-PC news organization to pull this off. The MSM can’t handle the truth.
Tantor on January 9, 2007 at 3:04 AM
Is it valid to assume that over 90% of Muslims are either actively engaged in violent activities, or support those activities in a passive manner, with the intent of establishing Islamic dominance over the “infidel” or “unbeliever”?
I am coming to the conclusion that allmost all Muslims support this Islamic assault. The “moderates” we are looking for are considered apostates and no longer considers Muslims.
omegaram on January 9, 2007 at 11:44 AM
Bingo! That is the doctrine of Islam. Fight Jihad otherwise you are an apostate.
Historically, Islam has been assaulting the world non-stop.
Tim Burton on January 10, 2007 at 2:07 AM