I missed the 60 Minutes interview of Marine Frank Wuterich that Allah discussed on Hot Air yesterday, and therefore can’t dispute nor affirm the Neil Boortz claim that the interview was, “one of the most outrageous displays of media bias……

Looks like my comment respectfully taking issuing with the host and army lawyer has been censored?

Jen the Neocon on January 7, 2007 at 6:35 PM

How so?

Whether these men violated those rules remains to be seen, and they are entitled to a full and fair trial. If innocent, exonerate them fully. If guilty, slam them. Fully.

But enough of this “let’s mow everybody down” bullsh*t.

armylawyer on January 7, 2007 at 12:09 AM

I completely agree, but as an American, I do wish we treated our troops with a little more dignity so as to give them the benefit of doubt, at least as gratitude for their service.

DriftedOutToSea thinks it’s brave to agree with the proprietor of this blog?

Sometimes yes, I do.

Brave, I tell you! Weathering the constant barrage of death threats, public persecutions, show trials and rank intimidation rampant on this board. Buck up soldiers, and never forget Dan Rather’s important message: “Courage…”

DriftedOutToSea thinks it’s brave to agree with the proprietor of this blog?

Weird.

Spiny Norman on January 7, 2007 at 5:34 PM

Sometimes yes, I do. See AllahPundits views on gay marriage for instance as well as this issue, and others. Views I share, btw. And AllahPundit and I hardly agree on everything. There’s a pretty rabid readership here sometimes.

Weird.

But enough of this “let’s mow everybody down” bullsh*t.

Well said. Some of you guys are amazing.

Hey, A-man. Those ’students’ – didn’t the second one from the right just reach for his cellphone? Two of them with their hands in the air – were they just saying “Allahu Akbar”? How many kilos of IED fit into the trunk of a Baghdad taxi? That sound – is that bass notes from that passing Opel or is that my own pulse in my eardrums? The dude with the cell, we’re pointing rifles at him – who’s he calling, his freakin’ lawyer? The freakin’ Iraqi ACLU? Or is he calling his cousin – the one who’s three brothers all have RPKs? Those dudes in the houses we just cleared? Hey wait! Is that a cell or a Beretta Tomcat? Dude cannot shoot his way out of this. Must be a cell. Why won’t he drop it?. “Allahu Akbar.” Again? No martyrs today, these dudes are going down.

Was the internal dialog of one of the Marines just like that?
I dunno. Neither do you. Maybe.
Anyway, the aftermath of a squad of Marines in mow them all down mode in an urban setting would not look anything like the scene in Haditha. So shouldn’t you and armylawyer be contextualizing your positions and the positions of commenters here a little better?
People can try to throw an immunity blanket on the taxi incident and still be a long, long way from being on Team Mow ‘em All Down. Look out your window and really think about what a Berserker squad of modern infantry could do to your neighborhood in 60-120 minutes. Dude.

Others pretty much already said what he (or she) did, and recommending only that we give them the “innocent until PROVEN guilty” benefit of the doubt (and not have them un-Constitutionally MURTA’d out of their U.S. rights) meanwhile.

And I am also wondering what “ThE DrIfTer” is singling out as “brave” in the post when the worst that could happen, in response, is something as electronically-ephemeral as being flamed on a harmless little computer screen. (None of which occurred in any case.)

A fair trial and honest verdict is all they can hope for, and it is far more likely they will get those at the hands of a USMC courtmarital than in the press or a civilian court.

Collateral damage does exist in warfare and, if not excessive, is permissible. Executions, not so much.

Whether these men violated those rules remains to be seen, and they are entitled to a full and fair trial. If innocent, exonerate them fully. If guilty, slam them. Fully.

But enough of this “let’s mow everybody down” bullsh*t.

armylawyer on January 7, 2007 at 12:09 AM

The voice of reason, and perhaps experience. Thank you for this, it was brave of you in this forum!

But just remember not to fal in line with the bad news and get the same mindset of the surrenderists. We still have an over 50 to 1 Kills to Deaths Urban Ratio in Iraq.

That’s unheard of in any war.

Remember Khe Sahn.

And if you don’t… move to Paris.

Sounds to me that our Marines were engaged with the enemy and the fog of war set in. We will never win another war if we conduct it like this. War is war. People die. The only way to end the killing is to win the war, not question every single round fired.

For more than a year now I have been reading about the short comings of precision bombing as applied in net centric warfare. Please forgive me, but it may be time to take out neighborhoods not single buildings when the enemy is engaged in this type of action. A disincentive to harbor anti-government combatants must be presented to these neighborhood hot spots. It’s a ghastly idea, I know, but to win it must be done.

I’m afraid not. A general courts martial may establish it’s own parameters of judgement, but it is based primarily on the preponderance of evidence. A murder case may get a long list of additional strictures, a war-time murder case with immense external attention is likely to get more. But in the end, the panel (jury) decides guilt or innocence, and there are no appeals.

Where did you get that crap. None of that is true. Please stop spreading such lies around. Under the UCMJ there is the same “beyond a reasonable doubt” burden of proof as in civilian courts. Furthermore, in cases like this an appeal is AUTOMATIC and MANDATORY to the military review court and, like the civilian courts, new evidence or circumstance can be the basis for further appeals which can (and have) reached all the way to the Supreme Court. And what’s this about a murder case getting a long list of additional “strictures.” What the heck does that mean? There are charges and specifications in UCMJ cases which are equivalent to civilian courts.

Finally, the military court system provides benefits to the accused not found in civilian courts. For example, at article 32 hearings (the UCMJ equivalent of a grand jury), the accused can see evidence and cross-examine witnesses and therefore ultimately affect the art. 32 decision. Not so in a civilian grand jury. Furthermore, the Convening Authority (the officer with the authority to have the case tried that oversees the process (in this case it’s Lt Gen. Mattis)) can review the sentences and eliminate or lower them pretty much as he/she see’s fit. The CA cannot increase or add punishments however. This was put into place as a check and balance on the members jury system – a feature not found in civilian courts. So if there’s this immense pressure, as you claim, for the jury members to throw these guys under the bus, then the CA can correct that. CA action can also form the basis for further appeals.

In short, please do some research before typing completely bogus statements.

I will be reading Orson Scott Card’s novel Empire soon. I wonder just how prolific it will be……..

I just pray they are given the tools to deal with any mistakes they might make in the fog of war. They all too often turn on themselves and have a hard time dealing with it.

I have a relative who was in the 101st and he came back really messed up because of what he seen over there. I would bear every burden , every nightmare, and every fear he feels if it meant he could get on with his life.

My humility in the face of their courage and sacrifice cannot be expressed by word or deed.

God bless everyone of you!