Stallone: Border fence “crazy, ridiculous”

posted at 11:17 am on January 5, 2007 by Allahpundit

I must break him.

In “Rocky Balboa,” an MGM Pictures release, the aging scrapper is running a restaurant when a computer-simulated bout inspires him to put the gloves back on. In one scene, his character defends his restaurant’s immigrant cooks and waiters against slanderous comments.

“I support Mexicans who work in my country,” he said, adding that the United States depends on the hard work of Latinos to keep running.

In comments to Mexican media later, Stallone criticized plans to build 700 miles of fence along the border as an immigration-control measure.

Such a fence was “crazy” and “ridiculous,” he said, arguing that nations should be able to interact without being divided by walls.

Emphasis on “should.”

What is it with action stars and illegals? Stallone wants to open the border and Arnold’s handing out universal coverage like it was candy.

You leave me no choice, Sly.

Update: In case anyone’s looking for a belated Christmas present for the big A, ahem.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Another movie I’ll never see, and another actor on the never watch again list.

shooter on January 5, 2007 at 11:22 AM

This big money Liberal guilt sh*t has gone too far.

shooter on January 5, 2007 at 11:24 AM

And to think I was going to actually see Rocky VI. Oh well, guess I’ll just read a good book.

Hollywood clowns spewing their political nonsense. It never seems to end. Neither does the press coverage of their utopian ideas.

voiceofreason on January 5, 2007 at 11:24 AM

What is it with action stars and illegals? Stallone wants to open the border and Arnold’s handing out universal coverage like it was candy.

In thi$ ca$e it’$ the pu$h for ticket $ales $outh of the border … not to be cynical about his motives or anything.

thirteen28 on January 5, 2007 at 11:25 AM

Stallone: Border fence “crazy, ridiculous”

There, I fixed it for you.

lan astaslem on January 5, 2007 at 11:25 AM

Aiiighh!! I knew I shouldn’t have clicked that video. Make the Brokeback parodies stop.

vcferlita on January 5, 2007 at 11:26 AM

Hollywood is starting to get anxious about the coke flow and the ability for their servants to return from vacation.

Perchant on January 5, 2007 at 11:26 AM

I bet Sly has a border fence around his estate to keep the riff-raff out.

quax1 on January 5, 2007 at 11:27 AM

No more ridiculous than 6 Rocky movies

jman on January 5, 2007 at 11:29 AM

I support putting a border fence up.

Around Hollywood.

Nethicus on January 5, 2007 at 11:30 AM

He’s promoting a movie in Mexico. What do you expect him to say?

lorien1973 on January 5, 2007 at 11:33 AM

“Another movie I’ll never see, and another actor on the never watch again list.”

Ditto … I actually had planned on seeing it too. I heard it’s well done. Oh well, another actor who’s not smart enough to keep his mouth shut. Hmmmm … I wonder how Gwenny Paltrow’s doing?

darwin on January 5, 2007 at 11:34 AM

“A Team Of Rivals” is a very good book.

marianpaul on January 5, 2007 at 11:34 AM

Good one quax1, more of the liberal ” for me but not for you” mentality.

bbz123 on January 5, 2007 at 11:35 AM

I’m still going to see the movie.

On DVD, anyway.

What can I say? I’ve got a soft spot for ol’ Sly.

That t-shirt is great. The hammer and sickle really make it.

Slublog on January 5, 2007 at 11:39 AM

LOL..some people just dont get smarter no matter old they get..guess what you stupid pud..no rocky tickets for me.

davy on January 5, 2007 at 11:40 AM

Hollywood is starting to get anxious about the coke flow and the ability for their servants to return from vacation.

Perchant on January 5, 2007 at 11:26 AM

*ding*ding*ding* ……… Winner by TKO.

fogw on January 5, 2007 at 11:41 AM

“He’s promoting a movie in Mexico. What do you expect him to say?”

The U.S. would be happy to have you, but come legally? How about stay home and fix your own country before you destroy ours? I better stop, this could go on for hours.

darwin on January 5, 2007 at 11:43 AM

I wonder how many illegals are on his payroll?

He still talks like someone smacked him in the head.

Duhhhh, louie

Kini on January 5, 2007 at 11:44 AM

**sigh** another graduate from the Natalie Maines School of International Public Relations. Maybe the next illegal he hires to tend his yard will be a Hezbollah jihadi just waiting for a chance to blow something up.

Catseye on January 5, 2007 at 11:47 AM

adding that the United States depends on the hard work of Latinos to keep running.

Never about the great culture, never about the academics they bring, never about the innovations they bring, never about the business investment they bring, only about the “work” they provide. He pays his slaves to work, not think.
A true racist, all the mexicans can provide is manual labor.

right2bright on January 5, 2007 at 11:47 AM

Make the Brokeback parodies stop.

vcferlita on January 5, 2007 at 11:26 AM

No way. Keep the abuse coming (heh).

Jaibones on January 5, 2007 at 11:52 AM

Guess being punch-drunk wasn’t acting.

steveegg on January 5, 2007 at 11:55 AM

Yup, and Slaves did the work Americans wouldn’t do.

Ask any 19th Century Slaver, who would tell you there was no way to make a profit on cotton if the slaves didn’t do it.

Illegals are our new slaves. Stand by for the reparations pitch.

Wander on January 5, 2007 at 12:00 PM

Ha! Good tagline.

marykatharine on January 5, 2007 at 12:08 PM

Uh, has any one paused this video at about 28 seconds? Does it really say “It Began as a Rivarly“?

I guess I have to have a little more sympathy for CNN and the “Fued” incident.

EFG on January 5, 2007 at 12:09 PM

Yeah, there’s a typo in the video. I didn’t produce it; don’t look at me.

Allahpundit on January 5, 2007 at 12:10 PM

This is a harsh crowd. It strikes me that there is only one actual quote in the article, i.e., “I support Mexicans who work in my country,”. That doesn’t seem to me to be such a horrible thing to say that it would affect whether or not I liked his work.

The rest of the statements seem to be paraphrases, or interpretations, of what Stallone may or may not have said by an AP writer by the last name of Pacheco.

Drudge throws up links titled so as to outrage the right, and man do we jump when he says to.

CourtZero on January 5, 2007 at 12:18 PM

I guess I’ll ask…….What size AP???? (T-shirt, that is)

KelliD on January 5, 2007 at 12:19 PM

Yeah, there’s a typo in the video. I didn’t produce it; don’t look at me.

Allahpundit on January 5, 2007 at 12:10 PM

I didn’t intend to accuse you of the typo. Allow me to make ammends.

Update: In case anyone’s looking for a belated Christmas present for the big A, ahem.

I guess I could send this to you at HotAirs P.O Box. The only question is what size it should be.

For a professional male blogger I suppose it could only be one of two sixe possibilities.

Small.

Or XX-Large.

;-)

EFG on January 5, 2007 at 12:19 PM

I too wanted to see the latest Rocky installment and have chosen not to. I will spin up the scenes to see Clubber Lang beat the taste out of Rocky’s mouth. heheheheheh

allie on January 5, 2007 at 12:27 PM

they want illegal immigrants because of the same reason that big business wants them; cheap labor for all their **** jobs

Defector01 on January 5, 2007 at 12:34 PM

I’m so glad you posted this as I always look to Hollywood in order to form my opinions about political issues…and I hadn’t yet heard Stallone’s stance on “the fence.” But now I’m good.

BirdEye on January 5, 2007 at 12:40 PM

I wonder if the Arizona National Guard who were routed by Mexican gunmen would agree with Stallone.

.

GT on January 5, 2007 at 12:43 PM

I wonder if the Arizona National Guard who were routed by Mexican gunmen would agree with Stallone.

Sounds like a good plotline for Rambo IV.

Coyote D. on January 5, 2007 at 12:55 PM

Worse plastic surgery ever.

Worse than Joan Rivers, which is saying something.

honora on January 5, 2007 at 12:55 PM

I’m beginining to think Stallone’s right. We don’t need a fence.

We need a DMZ with fences, concrete obstacles (dragon’s teeth), and land mines between the fences.

Jones Zemkophill on January 5, 2007 at 12:59 PM

Worse plastic surgery ever.

Worse than Joan Rivers Nancy Pelosi, which is saying something.

There, I corrected for you. Gratis. You can thank me later.

Andy in Agoura Hills on January 5, 2007 at 1:01 PM

Hollywood is starting to get anxious about the coke flow and the ability for their servants to return from vacation.

Perchant on January 5, 2007 at 11:26 AM

Yea, they’re afraid they may have to go back to using PC protected minorities as slaves….servants.

Tim Burton on January 5, 2007 at 1:38 PM

CourtZero on January 5, 2007 at 12:18 PM

Are you reading the same article that the rest of us are?

right2bright on January 5, 2007 at 1:46 PM

There was no fence where the National Guardsmen were overrrun by Mexican gunmen last night in Arizona, so why have a fence??

gary on January 5, 2007 at 1:57 PM

EFG, don’t rush the T-shirt order. With this, it might not be necessary, as the old ones may be worn for a long time now :)

Entelechy on January 5, 2007 at 2:00 PM

This guy puts the “Dic” in Ridiculous.

Get over it you washed up midget.

Viper1 on January 5, 2007 at 2:03 PM

There was no fence where the National Guardsmen were overrrun by Mexican gunmen last night in Arizona, so why have a fence??

gary on January 5, 2007 at 1:57 PM

People drive drunk every day. Why have a law?

.

GT on January 5, 2007 at 2:22 PM

Rocky has taken too many punches to the head. What does he think of Israel’s security barrier?

Hilts on January 5, 2007 at 2:51 PM

Crazy and ridiculous, huh? I’ll tell you what’s crazy and ridiculous. Anyone that makes the claim that Sly has acting talent, now THAT’s crazy and ridiculous.

CyberCipher on January 5, 2007 at 3:20 PM

Remember, Folks, this guy lives in “New Mexico City” California (LA)…is an ACTOR (bad or no)…AND is trying to promote a movie. His opinions are useless, and SO very unimportant.

Not to say I’m not enjoying the comments here though. ;) Have at it!

tickleddragon on January 5, 2007 at 4:08 PM

eh I spent my “funds for tossing at the conservative news sites” on MM’s trip already so no belated Christmas for you.

:-P

One Angry Christian on January 5, 2007 at 4:29 PM

EFG, don’t rush the T-shirt order. With this, it might not be necessary, as the old ones may be worn for a long time now :)

Entelechy on January 5, 2007 at 2:00 PM

Heh. I don’t know if this new fangled underwear is the greatest invention ever. Or a harbringer of the Decline and Fall of Western Hygene.

Sir, I fear for the future of our Great Republic. I fear for it greatly.

EFG on January 5, 2007 at 4:44 PM

Sir, I fear for the future of our Great Republic. I fear for it greatly.

EFG on January 5, 2007 at 4:44 PM

…she’s a lady :) But point well taken. Regards,

Entelechy on January 5, 2007 at 4:56 PM

Yup, and Slaves did the work Americans wouldn’t do.

Ask any 19th Century Slaver, who would tell you there was no way to make a profit on cotton if the slaves didn’t do it.

Illegals are our new slaves. Stand by for the reparations pitch.

Wander on January 5, 2007 at 12:00 PM

Right on wander!
Soon they will be demanding the same wages as ‘every Other American’ has the right to enjoy. They will be striking and demanding higher wages, etc.

Bearhopi on January 5, 2007 at 5:02 PM

Stallone arguing that nations should be able to interact without being divided by walls.

duh, but Mexico can’t and won’t. So the U.S. HAS to put up a wall as a DEFENSIVE measure!

Bearhopi on January 5, 2007 at 5:18 PM

He just lost me as a Rocky Fan, and I’m from Philly..

(course Philly is Brokeback Philly now, thanks to almost 50 years of Democrat control, and especially with the Comedian John Street we have for Mayor)

The Philly of Rocky I, is not the Philly of Rocky Balboa, the Rocky Balboa Philly is soft on immagration and strong on the gay agenda and illegal amnesty..

Sly, you blew it man! You’re losing fans…

flagwaver on January 5, 2007 at 5:22 PM

Stallone, blow it out of your smushed nose!

Yesterday Savage was talking about the cover-up of the crime wave by illegals, how in 2004 95% of outstanding LA county murder warrants named illegals, and how about 93 sex offenders cross the border daily.

Last night I watched a show on the History channel about drugs and the border, and how frustrated the BP is that funding for taking money from drug dealers before they get it back over the border has decreased substantially in the past 6 years.

I’m surprised at the lack of news coverage of the National Guardmen being overrun by foreign invaders. I STILL have not seen mention of it on Fox news. Instead they run a story about how a 30 minute walk through the zoo for penguins helps decrease stress. Time to email the “news” folks.

And Nero fiddles…

NTWR on January 5, 2007 at 5:26 PM

I’m so friggin depressed. I don’t quite know what to do. First I read this article where MARY KATHERINE HAM is bragging that SHE’S NEVER HEARD ANYONE IN HER CHURCH SPEAKING IN TONGUES, in response to a WaPo article which tried to castigate her dead church as a “Holy Roller” church. She was actually PROUD that the sign of the Lord( MARK 16: 15-18) is nowhere in evidence in her “Church” what a joke. Keep following these fake teachers if you want, but don’t say you weren’t told. I told you. I warned you, if her deception doesn’t speak volumes to you, hey, it’s on your heads.

Then, as if hearing an allegedly Christian woman BRAG about the lack of the Lord’s Spirit in her congregation wasn’t enough, I hadda hear Stallone pimpin’ for the Illegals. WHY DID I TURN ON THE RADIO? I had taken the time off and even switched some things around so I could go see Rocky after my workout. Then after hearing this IDIOT, I just sat there, feeling all stupid, unable to go. Screw him. Asshole.

Soothsayer on January 5, 2007 at 8:46 PM

Soon they will be demanding the same wages as ‘every Other American’ has the right to enjoy. They will be striking and demanding higher wages, etc.

Bearhopi on January 5, 2007 at 5:02 PM

Right On, Bearhopi, This is exactly where this b.s. is heading.

Soothsayer on January 5, 2007 at 9:07 PM

Another movie I won’t see with an actor I can’t stand. Sit down and shut up, Stallone.

Mooseman on January 5, 2007 at 9:43 PM

Now all we need is CGI fest with ‘Rambo’ fighting ‘Rocky’ in a “Coriscan Twins” rip-off with the p.c. plotline being a duel between them over infiltrating illegals who are being attacked by a faux Minuteman Rambo guarding the border but defended by Rocky in the U.S. desert (with a soon-to-be-famous masochistic cactus punching scene that leaves Rocky’s mitts looking like twin hedgehogs).

Let the schizophrenia begin!

(You just lost two more ticket sales Sly, you maroon.)

CLANG!

profitsbeard on January 5, 2007 at 9:51 PM

Keep following these fake teachers if you want, but don’t say you weren’t told. I told you. I warned you, if her deception doesn’t speak volumes to you, hey, it’s on your heads.

Then, as if hearing an allegedly Christian woman BRAG about the lack of the Lord’s Spirit in her congregation wasn’t enough,

That’s a bit harsh. There can be disagreement on this doctrinal point without calling one’s salvation into question.

Slublog on January 5, 2007 at 10:08 PM

Soothsayer, since you have quoted scripture, allow me to do the same regarding your questioning of Mary Katharine’s faith:

Romans 14:13-18:

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

Salvation is not dependent upon externalities, but on faith in Christ. Speaking in tongues is mentioned in the Bible as a spiritual gift, not a litmus test.

Slublog on January 5, 2007 at 11:51 PM

That’s a bit harsh. There can be disagreement on this doctrinal point without calling one’s salvation into question.

Slublog on January 5, 2007 at 10:08 PM

No. I’m sorry but there can’t be a “disagreement on this doctrinal point” without calling someone’s salvation into question. Because SALVATION is the doctrine in question! Did you know that of all the topics covered in your Bible, from everything ranging from, adultery to whether or not you should pay taxes, there is ONE topic which receives more INK than any other? You might think it would be an admonition against fornication or certainly in the O.T., spiritual adultery is covered quite a bit, but no, the topic in the Bible that contains the MOST PROHIBITIONS is none of these, it is FALSE DOCTRINE! Warnings against listening to false DOCTRINE is the NUMBER ONE topic in the Christian Bible! Here are a couple, there are literally hundreds of similar warnings…

2 Corinthians 11:4
4. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

Galatians 1; 6-9
6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

That’s pretty serious wouldn’t you say? There’s plenty more, it’s a specialty of mine but this posts gonna be long enough. So if you want more, I do it later okay?

See the Episcopalian church teaches a plethora of things that are diametrically OPPOSED to the sound doctrine of the Bible, as it RELATES TO SALVATION. In fact, if her church were correct, then large portions of the Bible wouldn’t have been written. One that immediately comes to mind is Christs command to be “Born Again”, I’m sure you know that the Episcopalian Church looks DOWN on those who claim to be, “born again”, as if they are somehow “extreme”. They sneer in their Waspy tones, “Oh, those Evangelicals again!”. Now, that , in and of itself, is troubling but it’s also problematic. Because JESUS who is the Author and Finisher of their faith said that speaking in tongues was part and parcel of the deal! He also said that it was one of the signs that would FOLLOW your belief.
Mark 16:14-20. So what does that mean if you have not received that sign…doesn’t take a genius.

He also specifically told his Apostles and disciples not to leave Jerusalem to go on their missionary journies, UNTIL they had received the Holy Ghost, Acts 1:1-8. Since they were about to embark on the greatest missionary Journey the world has ever seen, wasn’t leaving to actually DO IT, important? Of course it was, well, how would these people who have healed the sick, blind and the lame, and who have received from Jesus the power to RAISE THE DEAD ( matt 10:8) , know WHEN TO LEAVE?

Think about it, he tells them they’re gonna get the Holy Spirit, well they ALREADY BELIEVE in Him since he’s standing right there talking to them ( Which fake churches say means they ALREADY HAVE the Holy Spirit, by just “believing”) , so how would they know that they had received the promised SPIRIT if there were no evidence?

Now the teaching of the Episcopal, Catholic, Baptist, basically any non-Pentecostal church and some of them are of questionable doctrine having compromised with the world, is that THERE IS NO OUTWARD EVIDENCE THAT ONE HAS RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT! Contrary to what JESUS SAID! Now, if this was some minor point of doctrine, say , whether you should pray with your head covered or something, I would be with you, but it isn’t. It is the most important doctrine, the doctrine of the Holy Spirit. Some guy on this site went to a church that told him he was saved WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT. That is was just a gift and completely unnecessary for “salvation”. Well I asked him if “BELONGING TO JESUS” was necessary for “salvation”. He of course said yes, i then said well, how is it possible to BELONG to Jesus WITHOUT HAVING HIS SPIRIT? He said it’s just a gift. Here’s what Paul said….

ROMANS 8:9 NIV
9. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

Now, that’s pretty darn clear and since it IS clear, it would BEHOOVE one to examine it more closely! First the very utterance of this scripture along with many others, completely shows false doctrine for what it is…false! Fake churches teach that there is no evidence that one has the Holy Spirit, PAUL said that if you don’t have it you don’t belong to Jesus. How could he say that to a church in Rome FULL of newly “born again” Christians unless there was a way for them to know whether or not they HAD IT? Similarly, I am now reminded of when he went to establish the church at EPHESUS. He encounters some disciples and the FIRST thing he does is ask them whether or not they have Received the Holy Ghost, SINCE they BELIEVED. Now not only does this highlight the false doctrine of “there is no evidence” of the Spirit, it also completely demolishes the false doctrine that says that you receive the Holy Ghost WHEN or at the TIME OF your belief! Just as Jesus in Mark said, that the sign would FOLLOW your belief and therefore be separate and apart from it as events in your life go, Paul backs that up by asking them …..

Acts 19
1. While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples
2. and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” (Obviously if this Apostle asked the question it WASa question. Contrary to the teaching of the aforementioned fake churches)
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3. So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.

( Notice how in the mind of Paul, the reception of the Holy Spirit was a “baptism” exactly as Jesus told the Apostles and disciples when he told them to wait until they had received the Spirit BEFORE starting their Journey, Acts 1:4,5)

4. Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5. On hearing this, they were baptized into[b] the name of the Lord Jesus ( notice how they were NOT baptized, ” In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost”, as a LITERAL PHRASE but consistant with the understanding that Jesus IS Father, Son and Holy Ghost in bodily form (colossians 2:8,9, John 10:30 John 14: 5-11) not some third wheel in some false “Trinity”, just hangin’ out).

6. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied ( Notice what happened to them when they received the Holy Ghost, just as ALL of the Apostles and disciples did, they ALL spoke in tongues and prophesied).

7. There were about twelve men in all. ( the false churches tell you that some people speak in tongues and some DON’T. Yet in this reception of the Holy Ghost as with the reception of it by the Apostles, they ALL had the SAME EXPERIENCE. Not some do, some don’t. )

While I have VOLUMES more on this subject I will leave you with this, since it is the ONE THING that JESUS SAID that a fake church will NEVER tell you about the whole “speaking in tongues” debate. Jesus associated this unintelligible and unknown and mysterious thing with the NEW BIRTH. It’s the verse they always stop right before. Sure they’ll tell you that Jesus said “you must be born again”, maybe, that’s because they’re already tricking you to believe that you qualified for that already, merely by “believing”. HOWEVER, if you were to actually examine their “doctrine” under the light of what was done in Scripture, their entire “faith” falls flat on it’s face. I will give you this example, sorry to be less than my usually expansive self but I have to run. LOL

By improperly taking several scriptures woefully out of Context, namely Romans 10:9 and John 3:16, fakes teach that “all you have to do is call on the name of the Lord and you’ll be saved”, in the case of Rom 10:9. When they drag out John 3:16, completely IGNORING everything that JESUS JUST SAID BEFORE THAT, they tell you that all you have to do is, “believe”, right? But JESUS said YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN and that there is an INEXPLICABLE SOUND that accompanies EACH and EVERY person that is ‘Born Again”…..

JOHN 3 :1-8 (note: pay special attention to verse 8 which “they” leave out!)

1. There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: ( His coming to Jesus was an act of treason to his people)

2. The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. (According to the false doctrine teachers, this is NICODEMUS’ CONFESSION OF FAITH ala Romans 10:9, He’s “calling” on the Name of Jesus, IN PERSON!)

3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.(Notice that Jesus said “even though you have come to me and confessed with your mouth ala Romans 10:9, that you know who I am, there is still work to be done, you MUST be born again!)

4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? ( Nicodemus wants to know how can this be accomplished?)

5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.( Jesus expands on the new birth by explaining that the Baptism which he referred to in Mark 16 and Acts 1:5 is TWOFOLD it involves a water baptism and a SPIRITUAL baptism, together.)

6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. ( There is a difference between your fleshly birth and your spiritual one)

7.Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (Now here’s the kicker, the one that they ALL leave out on the rare occassions that they look to see what PRECEDED John 3:16. The only evidence that the Lord gives of the “WIND” that blows, meaning the Spirit, is the SOUND of that wind, the inexplicable and indeterminant sound. He didn’t use the evidence of “feeling” the Spirit or “believing” that you have it, he specifically said that there is a sound whose origin you cannot determine which heralds the new birth of each and every person that is born of the Spirit. These may be a little clearer in the NIV version…) JOHN 3:8
John 3:8 (New International Version)
8. The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

See, that “doctrinal point of dispute” that you referred to cannot be separated from “salvation” it’s what the whole kit and kaboodle is about. And that’s why it broke my heart to hear a beautiful conservative woman BRAGGING that there’s “none of that tongue talking stuff at my church, by golly!”.

Soothsayer on January 6, 2007 at 12:27 AM

See, that “doctrinal point of dispute” that you referred to cannot be separated from “salvation” it’s what the whole kit and kaboodle is about. And that’s why it broke my heart to hear a beautiful conservative woman BRAGGING that there’s “none of that tongue talking stuff at my church, by golly!”.

Where did Jesus instruct us that it is through the speaking of tongues that one will know the Spirit has come, exactly? Such a belief assumes that salvation is through the Spirit. Christ made it clear that it was not in John 14:6-7.

See also Ephesians 2:8-9
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Honestly, Soothsayer, it’s not up to you to decide whether MKH is a “real Christian” or not, since such an action is dependent on God’s grace, not your judgment.

In the future, it would probably be best if you would refrain from this sort of rhetoric:

Then after hearing this IDIOT, I just sat there, feeling all stupid, unable to go. Screw him. Asshole.

Galatians 5.

Slublog on January 6, 2007 at 1:09 AM

Ummmm, yeah, aaaanyway, back to the topic at hand …

This guy is no different than a teacher who gives passing grades to minority students that don’t know how to read because he thinks they can’t be held to the same standards as white students and he’s doin’ them a favor.

“Soft bigotry” is still bigotry.

Tony737 on January 6, 2007 at 3:26 AM

Such a belief assumes that salvation is through the Spirit. Christ made it clear that it was not in John 14:6-7.

I’m having difficulty believing that you could write such a thing. The sciptures in John 14:6,7 is where Jesus tells Phillip that HE IS THE FATHER, which makes your trinitarian point of view rather moot, I have no idea how you construe this to mean, that salvation is NOT THROUGH THE SPIRIT. What do you think the SPIRIT IS? It is JESUS’S SPIRIT not some third wheel in a triad! It comes from going to a fake church that thinks Jesus and HIS SPIRIT are separate, and if it wasn’t so tragic that would be funny. Such blindness comes from those who read too much of the Old Testament and don’t have the Holy Ghost in Truth.

2CORINTHIANS 3

14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.( this would be you)

15. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17. NOW THE LORD IS THAT SPIRIT: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. (how does someone who calls themselves a Christian NOT KNOW that the LORD is the HOLY GHOST??? MY GOD THAT IS STAGGERING! The very fact that you now see how misled you were, should cause you to leave that “church” IMMEDIATELY! Hie thee unto an Apostolic Pentecostal church that will baptize you correctly and pray with you until you receive the Holy Ghost. )

18. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

And futhermore…

PHILLIPIANS 1:19. For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, ( Whose Spirit?)

Honestly I don’t even know how you could write that after reading Romans 8:9 that clearly says that if you don’t have Christs Spirit you don’t BELONG TO JESUS~! SO how can you say that salvation is NOT THROUGH THE SPIRIT. Mind boggling. Listen, don’t let my gruff manner keep you from testing what I say through the word, God deals with us in different ways, I was a tough guy prior to salvation and I’m still a little “rough around the edges” to say the least. But your lack of understanding should be indicative to you that there is a BIG problem with whomevers’ been teaching you.

In the future, it would probably be best if you would refrain from this sort of rhetoric:
Then after hearing this IDIOT, I just sat there, feeling all stupid, unable to go. Screw him. Asshole.

Galatians 5.

I’m a writer not a namby pamby, the words were illustrative.
You “chastise” me about calling someone an idiot when Jesus told them they were going to hell and were the spawn of Satan( John 8:44)

There are churches that have replaced the truth of the Spirit with the FORMS OF GODLINESS, like no cursing, blah blah blah, meanwhile they’re dead inside.

2 Timothy 3

1. This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3. Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4. Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. ( The power of God is the same Power that Jesus promised the APOSTLES Acts 1:8, it is the Holy Ghost, which comes with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues. )

See you have a FORM of godliness, you’re a nice person, you treat people nicely AND you believe in Jesus, but you also DENY THE POWER (which is the Holy Ghost) just as the scripture SAID YOU WOULD.

Such a belief assumes that salvation is through the Spirit.

Unbelievable.

See also Ephesians 2:8-9
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

One of the biggest mistakes people make, especially people who think that the Spirit is not necessary for “SALVATION”, is you take a GENERAL SCRIPTURE and try to APPLY IT TO A SPECIFIC PURPOSE. Errors like that have people taking John 3:16, a GENERAL statemtent about God’s love for man, describing A GENERAL PROCESS (belief), and assuming that this covers a specific situation like “salvation”. COMPLETELY IGNORING the whole “YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN THING”. Now why would you listen to a general statemtent for a specific purpose when it is PRECEEDED in great detail BY SPECIFIC STATEMENTS CONCERNING THE METHOD OF YOUR SALVATION? Remember John 3:8? ” SO IT IS WITH EVERY ONE BORN OF THE SPIRIT”??????? What part of everyone do you think excludes you?

PLEASE realize that what I’m saying is shocking but my purpose is NOT to offend you, it’s to show you…See, the church split after the death of the last Apostle, having foreseen this, the Apostles left careful instructions as to how the doctrine was to be taught. THey included in the scriptures PROPHECIES of those that would pervert the gospel and KEYS as to how you would know them! The root of the apostacy began in what came to be known as the Catholic Church, did you know that the word “Catholic” actually means “liberal or general”? Well, it explains much. Their coming was foretold in PAULS instructions to TIMOTHY

1TIMOTHY 4:1-4 1 Timothy 4 (New International Version)
1. Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. ( Notice it says in “later” times, it’s a prophecy. Up to that point all of the Apostles and disciples baptized in Jesus’ name and understood glossalalia to be the sign of the INITIAL indwelling of the HOLY GHOST. I say “initial” because there is a “gift” of tongues which is different from the initial manifestation. After one receives the Holy Ghost one may or may not continue to speak in tongues AFTER that, that would require the “Gift” of tongues that is one of the Nine gifts of the Spirit. Anyway, they all baptized the same and they “tarried” the same, that means waited or prayed for groups that had not received the Holy Ghost to do so with attendant Glossalalia.)
2. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. ( it’s why the Priests aren’t all that bothered about the little boys, and instead sought to protect each other)
3. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. ( The only Christian church that has EVER forbid anyone to marry AND has simultaneously commanded abstention from certain foods, like no meat on friday and Priests and Nuns being celibate, is the CATHOLIC CHURCH. Which explains the idolatry of praying to Mary, Peter and whoever else will listen as well)
4. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5. because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

So after the death of John, the last Apostle to die, the people that Jude warned you about in Jude 4,5 took over. They changed the baptism and in an effort to evade the persecution of the Romans which was all about THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, these cowards dropped His name from your baptism. They formed the Catholic Church and later people protested that church and became known as PROTESTANTS, other offshoots include the Lutherans, Episcopalians, Baptists, Mormons and Methodists, unfortunately ALL of these offshoots have RETAINED the FALSE DOCTRINE of the catholic church as it relates to BAPTISM and reception of the Holy Spirit. They’re all claiming Christ yet IGNORING the teachers he sent to teach you, His Apostles!. See, Jesus wasn’t fond of “the masses” in fact most of the time the masses came around he removed himself from their presence. But he DID intend to teach 13 people, one of them being Judas, his replacement being Paul. And he DID intend for PETER to have the keys to the kingdom of heaven, which he did, and he DID intend for Peter to preach the first sermon AFTER THE INITIAL RECEPTION OF THE HOLY GHOST and he did and when the people heard what Peter had to say and believed, he didn’t tell them that “the Spirit wasn’t necessary for SALVATION”, sorry but I can’t get over that one! He said…

Acts 2:37,38

37. When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

38. Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. ( before you say, “he didn’t say they had to speak in tongues”, the Apostles WERE SPEAKING IN TONGUES WHEN THESE PEOPLE MADE FUN OF THEM (Acts 2:1-33) causing this lengthy RESPONSE wherein he tells them that what they are making fun of (this speaking in tongues) was actually the sign of the outpouring of God’s Spirit as foretold by the prophet JOEL, he then tells them in verse 33 that God poured out the Spirit that they both saw and HEARD)

39. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” ( SO IT IS WITH EVERYONE THAT IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT….sound familiar?)

Funny how he didn’t tell them “just believe” or “your saved by faith through grace” all of which are true but none of which, discuss the PROCESS by which this occurs!

As Priscilla said, I show you a more excellent way… Acts 2:38 Acts 2:4.

Read the book of Acts and see how far away it is from anything that you have been taught.

Soothsayer on January 6, 2007 at 4:04 AM

First off, I went to bed.

Second, allow me to say that yes, we are saved through God’s grace, Christ’s sacrifice and the work of the Spirit. If I communicated otherwise, then I apologize.

My question did not deal with the specific theological process of salvation, which I will define as what God does. It dealt with this statement you made regarding the salvation of another:

Then, as if hearing an allegedly Christian woman BRAG about the lack of the Lord’s Spirit in her congregation wasn’t enough

I do not believe the lack of tongues in a church is indicative of a lack of the Spirit. Since the Spirit is necessary to salvation, the Spirit is present in the lives of believers whether they have the gift of tongues or not.

That was my point, and again, I apologize if my words led you to beleive otherwise. Tongues are not the only manifestation of the Spirit in the lives of believers, and they are not necessary for salvation.

Achieving salvation, or as it’s come to be known “accepting Christ,” is actually quite simple.

For the sake of preserving unity, I will not respond specifically to your criticisms of me as an individual believer except to say that you have admonished me in error, and if you wish to discuss it further, email me. The email is slublog -@- gmail.com

Slublog on January 6, 2007 at 9:26 AM

I do not believe the lack of tongues in a church is indicative of a lack of the Spirit. Since the Spirit is necessary to salvation, the Spirit is present in the lives of believers whether they have the gift of tongues or not.

PLEASE READ THE ABOVE POST AGAIN. All of your innaccuracies have been addressed including the difference between the “gift of tongues” and the Tongues spoken in the initial manifestation of the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 12:6-8 (King James Version)
6. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. ( See, the initial manifestation of the Holy Ghost is different than the ennumerated gifts below and is given to EVERYONE the same way)

8. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

The Apostles and Disciples ALL had the exact same experience. In the 11th and 15th chapters of the Book Of Acts Peter quells the anger of the apostles, who didn’t want to believe that the Lord had extended salvation to the gentiles by ASSURING them that the Lord GAVE THE GENTILES THE EXACT SAME SPIRIT WITH THE EXACT SAME EVIDENCE! This and only this quieted their uproar.

ACTS 11: 15-18

15. And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. ( NOTICE he SPECIFICALLY tells them that the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost the SAME WAY the APOSTLES DID!)

16. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. ( When Peter went to see Cornelius, Gentiles being Saved, was the last thing on his mind, but when he hearkened back to when the Lord Promised them the Holy Ghost, he understood. And since you see him remembering the Lords’ Promise, how did they get it? Promise is here; Acts 1:8 Result is here Acts 2:1-4. You can keep on believing this off brand junk if you want to, especially when you see an APOSTLE justifying his preaching to DOGS (gentiles) and you will see below that the fact that it was the IDENTICAL SPIRIT is the only thing that one the day!)

17. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?( in plain English Peter says ” Since God gave them THE SAME GIFT, as he did unto us, who was I to say no?” NOTICE THE IMPORTANCE OF IT BEING THE SAME SPIRIT!!)

18. When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Now, pay attention, all of the scripture twisting you’ve been doing, takiing general scriptures and trying to apply them to specific purposes, is shown for the nonsense it is RIGHT HERE. The Apostles responded that GOD GRANTED REPENTANCE TO THE GENTILES, right? Now that’s a general statement isn’t it? But what process was it specifically REFERRING TO? I mean it’s easy to say, God granted repentance to someone, but what specifically did that mean? Hint: It’s the same as saying that “WHOSOEVER ‘Believeth” on him shall have everlasting life. The problem is that you don’t even know what the word “believe” really means! Remember JESUS SAID that SIGNS FOLLOW them that BELIEVE!!!! Sooo when it says, “whoseoever believeth” it means WHOSOEVER HAS RECEIVED THE SIGN THAT THEIR REPENTANCE HAS BEEN ACCEPTED!!!!!!
Here is the definition of believe according to Jesus Christ.

MARK 16: 16-20
16. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
( Now you should know by now, from the voluminous posts above that “baptized” is referring to the baptism of the Holy Ghost which came with WHAT EVIDENCE on the DAY OF PENTECOST? Acts 2:1-4, Notice He says, “He that believeth” this is not the passive unresponded to belief that you are talking about, it is an ANSWERED BELIEF where the SIGN has been given!!!!)

17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; ( So, SIGNS FOLLOW TRUE BELIEF! This is more than a passive acknowledgement of the fact of Jesus Christ, this is a soul searing repentance that saves and is rewarded by the SIGN! So since the maker of Worlds says that when you believe, you get a sign, what can we make of those empty churches with no SIGNS and therefore NO SPIRIT? We can say that they DO NOT REALLY BELIEVE. That is why the Episcopalians are putting sodomites in the pulpit and advocatint filth. It’s no ACCIDENT that Mary Katherine Ham was so deceived she thought the absence of the sign was something to brag about!

18.They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. ( yep these too!)

19.So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. (Now the Bible declares that as the word went forth the Lord was working WITH THEM and CONFIRMED THE WORD WITH THE APPROPRIATE SIGNS!! What happened to the rest of the churches then? Answer: they compromised with the world and believed the false teachers who said, “you don’t have to do all of that, just believe this general scripture about being saved through grace!

RIDDLE ME THIS BATMAN, If you believe that your saved merely by the fact that grace EXISTS ( how ridiculous is that?) WHERE IS YOUR SIGN THAT YOUR REPENTANCE AND BELIEF HAVE REACHED AN ACCEPTABLE LEVEL TO THE LORD???? Where’s the sign, baby? You ain’t saved by merely believing, bub, is Satan saved by his belief in Jesus? Ooh it’s getting deep now? What say you, is Satan saved by his belief since that’s all that’s required in your signless world, becauses after all, Satan has believed in Jesus longer than you did!

JAMES 2: 17-

17. Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. ( So much for that nonsense you were talking, huh? Since even the devil can do what you do!)

20. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? ( WHERE’S YOUR WORK? The LORD told you to REPENT and that you would SPEAK IN TONGUES, since this came not only out of Jesus’ mouth but was backed up by all of the Apostles, what the heck is your problem???)

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23. And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

See you have faith but it’s DEAD faith having no WORKS to accompany it and the work of which we speak is the act of repenting and being baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, like PETER TOLD YOU TO. ACTS 2:38 because just HAVING FAITH, ain’t enough! I told you that you didn’t understand the process by which we are saved by grace THROUGH faith! It’s the THROUGH part you aren’t gettiing, there is a PROCESS that is a WORK that you have neglected! That’s why Jesus SAID “HE THAT BELIEVES AND IS BAPTIZED (in the HOLY GHOST the RIGHT WAY, LIKE THE APOSTLES), SHALL BE SAVED~!!

Achieving salvation, or as it’s come to be known “accepting Christ,” is actually quite simple.

You have been taught by fake teachers like BILLY GRAHAM who have PERVERTED THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST into a bunch of liberal, “IT’S QUITE SIMPLE” junk! Was it simple for the 500 apostles and disciples who had to pray for TWO WEEKS in order to receive the Spirit? Was it simple for the people of Samaria in ACTS 8 who were taught by THE APOSTLE PHILLIP, baptized in JESUS’ NAME and who STILL DIDN’T HAVE THE HOLY GHOST and who wouldn’t GET IT until PETER AND JOHN took a perilous journey to pray for them to receive it, these people who ALREADY BELIEVED yet HAD NOT RECEIVED THE SPRIT?.

“Accepting” Christ is one of the biggest lies told on the Bible. I will give you TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS, for every scripture you find that says YOU can ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST! How arrogant of you, I gues you think he’s your “personal” saviour or some such junk. Well it is junk. And you should be ashamed, WHAT PART OF REPENT means ‘ACCEPT”? NONE of it. You were told this at the end of the FIRST MESSAGE PREACHED AFTER THE RECEPTION OF THE HOLY GHOST BY THE APOSTLES. Look hard to find the word “accept”…..

Acts 2:37-39
37. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ( this is what you were told, that Junk that Billy Graham spews out ain’t gonna save NOBODY, if it were the truth you would have received the SIGNS that FOLLOW belief but you haven’t, why not? Why does Billy preside over a church full of white washed tombs just like you, if he’s got the truth. The Bible says that by their FRUIT you shall no them, well the fruit ain’t feeding the poor honey, it’s salvation in the power of the Holy Ghost. This is why the Apostles at Jerusalem relented once Peter explained that the Gentiles had indeed received the same Holy Ghost that they had, not some just wave your hand and “believe” junk and presto you got it, it’s in there like Prego or something!)

39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. ( EVERYONE GETTING SAVED HAS TO DO IT THIS WAY , BUB. NO EXCEPTIONS)

John 3:8 (King James Version)
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

As I asked you before, which you have yet to respond to BTW, WHAT PART OF EVERYONE DO YOU THINK EXCLUDES YOU FROM HAVING TO DO IT THIS WAY? I’m going to pray for you tonight pal, because the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard was Salvation is actually “guite simple”. As a Christian it is incumbent upon you to know that your degree of perscecution is directly proportional to the degree of truth you posess. After all, it wasn’t so “simple” for the Apostles all of whom with the exception of John, were slain for their preaching of the Holy Ghost filled message. It was only after the church was WATERED DOWN WITH JUNK that things got “simple”. My God. You’re like the people Paul was berating

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Remember how important it was to Peter and the rest of the Apostles in acts 11 and 15 that the Gentiles had RECEIVED THE SAME SPIRIT THE SAME WAY? Well, that’s because there are MANY spirits my friend but only one HOLY SPIRIT. Here you see Paul ridiculing their steadfastness in the Apostle’s doctrine, by telling them that if they actually receive another gospel or ANOTHER SPIRIT that was different than what they initially received, THAT THEY WERE DUMB ENOUGH TO PUT UP WITH IT!!!! And they all spoke in tongues initially and were baptized in the name of JESUS BTW, another fact I raised about which you are mute. Suffice to say my work here is done, you don’t accept new facts when they are presented to you so there’s really very little that I can do. I will leave you with this, you have “accepted” a different Gospel, one that does not Require Repentance or an answer from Jesus Christ. It is a lie. Period. I SHOWED you in PAINSTAKING detail how Paul approached those he met that THOUGHT they were SAVED JUST BY BELIEVING like you. He re-baptized them properly in Jesus’ name and he tarried with them until they spoke in tongues, I don’t know why you didn’t address that since it’s so appropriate to your situation.

Acts 19

1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. ( NOT SUFFICIENT: I guess they didn’t know about the whole, “it’s quite simple” thing, huh?)

4. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. ( When they heard that THEY were baptized IMPROPERLY they HUMBLED themselves to the word and CHANGED IT! Why hasn’t BILLY GRAHAM? or You for that matter? Check his websit he’s STILL baptizing DIFFERENTLY than the APOSTLES OF OUR LORD , yet EPHESIANS 4:5 declares that there is ONLY ONE BAPTISM! Who do you think is right? All of the Apostles AND Jesus, or some hack that came along late in the game? )

6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. ( Why did Paul lay his hands on them? According to “Billy Know Nothing Graham” they ALREADY HAD THE HOLY GHOST AFTER THEY WERE BAPTIZED JUST BY THEM “ACCEPTING” JESUS! But that’s not what the Word says, the Word says that THEY DIDN’T HAVE IT YET AND HE CAME ON THEM ONLY AFTER PAUL LAID HANDS ON THEM……..Wakey wakey, eggs n bakey!)

7And all the men were about twelve.

This is how Paul warned Jesus name baptized, tongue talking Christians, remember up till this time ALL of them WERE BAPTISED in JESUS NAME and ALL OF THEM received the Holy Ghost with the initial manifestation of Speaking in tongues but already the devil was at work. He was already sending people to the churches that PAUL and APOLLOS had just left telling the people that “it’s quite simple, really, you don’t have to do all of that stuff Paul said…”

2 JOHN 1
7. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. ( Now this is a fine point but a BIG one nonetheless, see the Catholic Church and consequentiallly it’s offshoots ( Baptist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, etc) DO NOT teach that JESUS CHRIST is COME into the world! They teach that he was BORN in the world, they don’t acknowledge the PRE-BIRTH EXISTENCE OF JESUS CHRIST, which is why they think they can pray to Mary and get her to twist his arm or something, but the WORLD ITSELF was made by JESUS CHRIST long before He ever walked it in HUMAN FORM, Colossians 1:12-19, JOHN 1:3, 10, 14, It’s also why PETER taught us that the Prophets who existed THOUSANDS of years before the earthly birh of Jesus, were PROPHESYING BY THE SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST (1 PETER 1:10,11) how is that possible under the “trinitarian” model? Answer: It isn’t, so they are WRONG.)
8. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

9. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. (because the two are one, JOHN 1:1, John 10:30, John 14:6,7)

10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: ( see, there was no ‘TOLERANCE” for disputes my friend, someones doctrine either had to add up to the same salvation the Apostles received or it DIDN’T)

11. For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. (this would be why you don’t even wish false doctrinaires “godspeed”. You simply tell them or in my case, show them the truth as it exists in scripture and hope for the best)

I’ve shown you how the Apostles and disciples received the Holy Ghost and that it was IMPORTANT TO THEM that EVERYONE HAVE THE SAME EXPERIENCE, initially. I have showed you how that experience was prophesied by the Lord and how it came to pass. I ‘ve showed you how Nicodemus DID EXACTLY WHAT YOU THINK IT TAKES TO BE SAVED, he “believed”, he “confessed his belief with his mouth” and he “accepted” Jesus as his “personal saviour” IN PERSON! And I’ve shown you how JESUS TOLD HIM that there was more to it than that and that it wasn’t quite that “simple”. I’ve shown you how the LORD SAID that if you BELIEVED you would be SPEAKING IN TONGUES and how he DID IN FACT, work with the Apostles confirming the Word with SIGNS. And I’ve shown you how Billy Graham , Falwell and the like, are leading dead churches that are largely absent of this Sign. I’ve shown you how little you know or understand by your ridiculous assertions that you don’t need the Holy Ghost for salvation. You still maintain that there is a difference between receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues as the initial manifestation of the Spirit, yet you fail to provide documentation of how this is possible since Peter, Paul, Jesus and the rest ALL said that EVERYONE IS SAVED THE SAME WAY.

Acts 15
7. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.( not Billy Graham or You, by PETER”S mouth they were to hear the word and believe and what did he tell them?)

8. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; ( Notice how Peter EXPLICITLY tells the Apostles that the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost the SAME WAY THAT THE APOSTLES DID. )

9. And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

( Now why do you think he said that God “PUT NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US AND THEM”? Well there is “no difference” between how I got it and how THEY got it, but YOU can’t say that now can you?) ( Also notice the GENERAL PHRASE ” Purifying their hearts by faith” is used to describe the Gentiles reception of the Holy Spirit! Notice how he doesn’t get into specifics but encapsulates their salvation with a GENERAL PHRASE!

But what really happened to these Gentiles when their “hearts were purified by faith?” In the 10th chapter of Acts Peter is given a dream by the Holy Ghost, it tells him to look up a guy named Cornelius. God sends Cornelius a dream telling him heed Peter when he comes. Peter comes,he preaches Jesus and

44. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. (notice how the Holy Ghost fell on ALL of them and how ALL of them will have the SAME experience!)

45. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. ( The Jews were astonished that the HolyGhost was poured out on the gentiles, but HOW DID THEY KNOW?)

46. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, ( Now, the Bible specifically is telling you HOW THEY KNEW that the People had received the Holy Ghost, because they HEARD THEM SPEAK WITH TONGUES!)

47. Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well AS WELL AS WE? ( He challenged them to forbid the baptism but they can’t because the gentiles SPOKE IN TONGUES just like the APOSTLES DID! And so the Jews who had transgressed the LAW by going into a Gentiles home, relented and BAPTISED THEM but the question that remains is, WILL THEY BAPTISE THEM THE WAY YOU WERE BAPTISED ( incorrectly ) OR THE WAY THE APOSTLES DID IT? ( In the name of Jesus Christ)

48. And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

AGAIN, consistent with Peters command on the day of Pentecost in acts 2, they are baptised not in the useless TITLES, “father, son and holy ghost” but in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST! Next I guess you’ll say that it doesn’t matter HOW your baptized, but of course, it does, (Rom 6:3-5)

Soothsayer on January 7, 2007 at 12:28 AM