c0bb3805243b03c66d78…

I like to think I get along well with the posters at HotAir, but I have to criticize a recent post there because it is an example of something I have railed against repeatedly. Here’s a passage Ian decided to highlight in a recent HotAir post:
….

It was mentioned earlier by another commenter that isalm is the only “religion” that doesn’t hunt down and punish it’s murderers, butchers, and extremists who commit crimes against humanity. On the contrary, it glorifies them.

All you supposed self-righteous apologists for islam fail to note that if islam really was the “religion of peace” we wouldn’t be having this discussion. It’s not and I’m glad we are.

darwin on December 27, 2006 at 12:12 AM

Ok. So the notion of building a peaceful democracy in Iraq is pretty stupid, right? Why are we sacrificing our troops attempting this fool’s errand?

Darwin? Anybody?

Explain to me how the millions of Mulsims in this country should interpret that. Explain to me how that helps those Muslims that everyone here wants to stand up and fight radical Muslims do that job. This thread does not represent some line in the sand, saying, “We tolerate your faith, but only insofar as it doesn’t threaten our nation.” A statement like that I would not only find fair game, but I would agree with! But that’s not what we have found here. What we have found on this thread is a wholesale rejection of the faith, its practitioners, and all associated with it.
And for an American-born Muslim, who loves his/her country and has done it no wrong, they deserve far, far better than the poo (and yes, hate) on this thread.

Lastly, my favorite sign of paranoia on this thread was that when one poster tried to point out that radical Islamists had in fact rejected Ellison as being insufficiently Islamic, the poster’s knowledge of this decision was taken as proof that that poster listens to and supports radical Islam. How crazy can you get? Since our CIA guys know what terrorists are plotting by listening to or in on them, does that mean they support terrorists?

torrentprime on December 28, 2006 at 6:42 PM

Welcome to bizarro world. The major rule is that the conclusion of any set of facts is pre-determined, ergo the facts are irrelevant. The general ones–Muslims are all evil, liberals are all evil, Europeans (and generally all non-Americans) are all evil. George Bush is a benevolent idiot.

Yeah… a real Muslim. So when is Keith going to strap on his vest and blow up the capitol building?
I’d say where this guy can shove his Koran, but I’m in a polite mood.

This clown must go. No room for muslims in US politics in this day and age. Islam is not, and can never be compatible with western values.

Explain to me how the millions of Mulsims in this country should interpret that. Explain to me how that helps those Muslims that everyone here wants to stand up and fight radical Muslims do that job. This thread does not represent some line in the sand, saying, “We tolerate your faith, but only insofar as it doesn’t threaten our nation.” A statement like that I would not only find fair game, but I would agree with! But that’s not what we have found here. What we have found on this thread is a wholesale rejection of the faith, its practitioners, and all associated with it.
And for an American-born Muslim, who loves his/her country and has done it no wrong, they deserve far, far better than the poo (and yes, hate) on this thread.

Lastly, my favorite sign of paranoia on this thread was that when one poster tried to point out that radical Islamists had in fact rejected Ellison as being insufficiently Islamic, the poster’s knowledge of this decision was taken as proof that that poster listens to and supports radical Islam. How crazy can you get? Since our CIA guys know what terrorists are plotting by listening to or in on them, does that mean they support terrorists?

Yeah… a real Muslim. So when is Keith going to strap on his vest and blow up the capitol building?
I’d say where this guy can shove his Koran, but I’m in a polite mood.

This clown must go. No room for muslims in US politics in this day and age. Islam is not, and can never be compatible with western values.

Explain to me how the millions of Mulsims in this country should interpret that. Explain to me how that helps those Muslims that everyone here wants to stand up and fight radical Muslims do that job. This thread does not represent some line in the sand, saying, “We tolerate your faith, but only insofar as it doesn’t threaten our nation.” A statement like that I would not only find fair game, but I would agree with! But that’s not what we have found here. What we have found on this thread is a wholesale rejection of the faith, its practitioners, and all associated with it.
And for an American-born Muslim, who loves his/her country and has done it no wrong, they deserve far, far better than the crap (and yes, hate) on this thread.

Lastly, my favorite sign of paranoia on this thread was that when one poster tried to point out that radical Islamists had in fact rejected Ellison as being insufficiently Islamic, the poster’s knowledge of this decision was taken as proof that that poster listens to and supports radical Islam. How crazy can you get? Since our CIA guys know what terrorists are plotting by listening to or in on them, does that mean they support terrorists?

So the question that must be asked is – is ISLAM the problem?

Yes.

“Spot” is a dog.
Collies are dog.
Ergo, “Spot” is a collie.

True or false?

Indeterminate by the premises given. Spot may be a collie, the premises do not preclude it. Spot definitely isn’t a cat.

Only one religion on earth commands its adherents to convert or kill non-believers. Pop-quiz: When a muslim chooses to obey that, is he following islam or is he not?

Shall we compile a list of Christians who have been enemies of the United States? We don’t really have to go through that tiresome exercise do we?

I can assure you that noone who fits your suggestion can back up their actions with Scripture. People who try the “Vengeance is mine, I shall repay” line are not acting from Christianity, but their own appetite, and just as others who could fool you into thinking they were Christians, they misuse Scripture. The Bible passage is “Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.” (Romans 12:19) As you can see, Honora, God calls us not to take violent action on our own behalf, that is His job. Now, before you go in that direction, this is speaking on a personal level, it does not speak to nations deciding to go to war.

People of questionable sanity do many terrible things using many sources as justification, religion most of all. And none of them are correct in doing so. Nobody of clear sanity does such things and pretends to justify it through religion, except for Muslims who say that the Koran tells them that for infidels, it is conversion or the sword.

Moral relativism, especially when poorly presented, ought to be beneath you, Honora. Don’t sink to it.

Have you ever heard a non-Arabic-speaking Muslim pray? Hey, what do you know… they use a bunch of Arabic words!
Mark Jaquith on December 27, 2006 at 5:22 PM

Yes, and since they don’t speak, read, or write Arabic, the vast majority of them have no idea if they pronounced the words correctly, what those words actually mean, or even why they are saying them. Sorta’ reminds me of you liberals.

To you, Collies are the only true dogs, and even Poodles are potential Collies.

Mark Jaquith on December 27, 2006 at 5:22 PM

Actually, the truth be known, I like dogs of nearly all breeds, and most of them “take to me” almost immediately — probably because they can sense that I like them. Unlike the trolls here on HA that usually register their disdain for me on their very first volley. (Sorta’ like you did just now.) My selection of collies as the breed that I prefer for my personal companion has nothing to do with your sweeping generalizations, any more than the fact that I choose a particular brand of dog food. Oh, and BTW, if there’s one thing that you can be absolutely sure about with liberals, it is that they always refuse to eat their own dogfood. They are, in fact, the biggest hypocrites on the planet.

Are all muslims terrorists? Duh, if they were we’d have REAL problems then, huh? And we wouldn’t be trying to turn Iraq and A-stan into our democratic allies, would we?

What’s with you people anyway? Always taking sides with our enemies. You hate America because we’re “imeeeeerialistic”, but ya just LOVE the Soviet Union, which really was an imperialist empire. If we were imperialist, Japan, Germany, Italy, Korea, Grenada, Panama and Kuwait would be states. You hate America because we’re totalitaaaaaarian, yet ya love the Vietcong and North Vietnam, Saddam and the Ba’athists, Kim Jong I’ll and his commie regime, Castro, etc, who really are totalitarian. You think you’re big and brave because you speak out against Bush. Well, whooptie friggin’ do! You have the freedom of speech! No jackbooted thugs drag you away for it, but try that in China and see what happens to ya. You libsm your problem is that you’ve got it so good in this country that ya think it sucks. You’re smarter than us idiots because you’re “elites” … in your own mind. Try living in any other country on earth. I lived in Europe for three years, there’s no place like America. Love it or leave it.

McVeigh. PUH-lease! You guys are like the white guy who, when talking about basketball, says “Oh yeah, well, well what about Larry Bird, huh? HE’S white!” Pathetic, pointy head intellectual types who need a girlfriend.

I love it when you say stupid shit like this, Mark. It helps us gain perspective on the other bs you throw out.

Have you ever heard a non-Arabic-speaking Muslim pray? Hey, what do you know… they use a bunch of Arabic words!

Most religious terms used by Muslims around the world are direct borrowings from Arabic, such as salat ‘prayer’ and imam ‘prayer leader’. (link)

And Allah, “God.”

There are no stipulations on the 1st Amendment, no qualifiers such as “thou may speak lest it offends someone” or “thou may speak thy mind lest it be “uncomfortable” to others”, or “thou may feel free to speak lest it be about someone other than white heterosexual males”, or last but not least, “thou may speak lest it undermines the efforts of the enemies of the United States”.

But it does have qualifiers about talking about the Lord in Arabic? This is an ‘effing politically correct point. Scroll up and look at the people who think that we should round up Muslims and eject them from our country!

Jihadists ARE the true Muslims.

You’re wrong. But it doesn’t really matter, because your view of what constitutes a “true Muslim” is irrelevant. As long as the majority of Muslims aren’t extremists, your Venn diagram is still backwards. To you, Collies are the only true dogs, and even Poodles are potential Collies.

McVeigh was an atheist

Agnostic theist, not an atheist (who are you going to believe, Timothy McVeigh himself, or Debbie Schlussel?). He was raised Catholic.

I would note, that if we were looking for Collies, Spot would be a more likely prospect than Honora for example, after all Spot meets the first criteria…He is a dog.

Well yes. Profiling (as long as it is profiling, and not internment) is a necessary tool of law enforcement. The government does not have (and should not have) unlimited resources for law enforcement, so they need to focus their energies where crimes statistically happen and focus on those who statistically commit the crimes. And it’s not just a race or religion thing… the 17 year old white male is more of a likely criminal than a 65 year old Arab female. Age and gender are probably the most important considerations, in fact. And I’ve always been supportive of the use of statistics in focusing the energies of law enforcement officers. Heck, about 6 years ago Glenn Beck was mildly opposed to profiling and I got him to change his mind (he was just a local radio guy at the time).

They should be great fodder for Islam when it comes dominate over the Earth.

“Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.” — Omar Ahmad, founder of CAIR

didn’t know the commenters here were so powerful and all-knowing they actually determined people’s religion for them.

JaHerer22 on December 27, 2006 at 1:54 PM
Nice try. McVeigh was an atheist:
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2005/06/morgan_spurlock.html

PRCalDude on December 27, 2006 at 3:29 PM

A) I would never regard Debbie Schlussel as a reliable, unbiased source on anything, especially something regarding religion. You’ll need a better link if you want to prove a point to me.

B) I don’t know or care what religion McVeigh was. I just thought it was funny a starblazer actually said “commenters here determined he was not a Christian” as if the commenters here had the final say on what religion people were. It wasn’t a political statement at all, you’re just anxious to jump all over me. Settle down, take a xanax.

What’s amazing is that people on this thread proudly defend stereotyping all Muslims by the actions of a few. How many Muslims live in America? torrentprime on December 26, 2006 at 11:48 PM

At first I thought you were just an idiot lefty who snuck in but when I read the rest of your post, I found it to be thoughtful and well reasoned, but drastically UNINFORMED. The naivete comes from NOT UNDERSTANDING THE TRUE NATURE OF ISLAM. Sorry for shouting! YES there are loads of Muslims living and working in this country who would never harm a fly, theres no question of that! In that, Muslims aren’t any different than Christians! 95% of this country “identifies themselves” as Christian. Do you really believe that 95% of this country is really Christian? If so, how is abortion legal since the question of whether a baby is a human being was answered in the Bible? See, the CHRISTIAN position on an unborn child is that it is a human being even BEFORE the egg is fertilized! It is a human in the mind of the God that placed it there who knows in his omniscience the number of hairs that will grace the head, of the as yet UN-FERTILIZED egg! Didn’t know that did ya…

Jeremiah 1:5 (King James Version)

5. BEFORE I FORMED THEE IN THE BELLY I KNEW THEE; AND BEFORE THOU CAMEST FORTH OUT OF THE WOMB I SANCTIFIED THEE, AND I ORDAINED THEE A PROPHET UNTO THE NATIONS.

So much for the 95%. The same is true of Muslims. The Muslims that you like are NOMINAL MUSLIMS people who didn’t like the SHARIA law in their homelands and fled, certainly A MINORITY OF MUSLIMS, since most Muslims prefer their culture to ours. However, to be a DEVOUT MUSLIM one MUST believe in JIHAD. To be a DEVOUT PRACTITIONER OF THE RELIGION OF PEACE, you must believe that it is not only okay to kill Christians and Jews and whomever else is not Muslim, you must also believe that IT IS REQUIRED by the KORAN to do so. You must believe that the imposition of SHARIA will be opposed by the Christians and the Jews and THEREFORE, they must die OR be subjugated to the point where they will pay certain “infidel” taxes, IF they accept their status as second class citizens. Because in order to be a DEVOUT Muslim, you must want ISLAM to DOMINATE THE WORLD, since that is ISLAMS EXPRESS MISSION IN THIS WORLD.

mine plays cards, smokes cigars, and talks…

CyberCipher on December 27, 2006 at 2:59 PM

My Shelties play chess and they win every time :)

Accordingly the same commonsense can be applied to our profiling and identification of likely terrorist. Its always good when a liberal at lasts sees the light, (click) oops they turned the switch off, rather than seeing the light.

Not to mention one damm smart Collie. Sends my Weimaraner over for some training…heh.

didn’t know the commenters here were so powerful and all-knowing they actually determined people’s religion for them.

JaHerer22 on December 27, 2006 at 1:54 PM

Nice try. McVeigh was an atheist:
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2005/06/morgan_spurlock.html