NBC Meet
The Press (Tim Russert)
Analysis: Lil Timmah has found a pastor
he can like, mainly because that pastor is falling all over himself praising
Osama Obama (as Teddy Kennedy called him). This gives him a twofer,
starting with a……

Over at Life Training International, Scott and Serge are commenting about Rev. Rick Warren’s endorsement of Democrat Senator Barack Obama. Warren, as an evangelical pastor and writer, is known for his highly successful book The Purpose Driven Life. Mo…

but I think we should be praying for him and how to communicate our concerns to/about him before firing off angry letters and blog comments. For better or for worse, he IS a very influential American Christian, and our prayers are one of the most effective things we can do for him.
tikvah on December 19, 2006 at 5:36 PM

I believe there is a clear scriptural directive not to take personal disputes public when they involve only believers. Church leadership is admonished to wisely mediate such conflicts so that they can be resolved within the church, thereby demonstrating the wonderful effect of Christ’s peace in lives of believers. (I Cor. 6:1-7) We also have the privacy principle described in Matt. 18 to guide us through confrontation over sin.

Unfortunately when Pastor Warren takes a very public action or position that seriously misrepresents the Christ he claims to speak for we’ve already moved way past ICor. and Matthew! If other believers don’t step up publicly to challenge open error, we are letting our Savior down in order to “keep the peace”.

I absolutely agree that whatever we say publicly should be prayerfully thought out. Scripture exhorts us to rebuke an elder “gently”. Some of the comments above aren’t gentle rebukes, however they don’t appear to be coming from individuals who claim to be believers either.

If we sit wringing our hands trying to figure out how to resolve this on the qt while Warren is making repeated problematic statements in the open, we are in effect sitting by while the cause of Christ is being injured.

He has willingly been mainstreamed by virulently anti-Christian forces and needs our prayers and vigilance.

Valiant on December 19, 2006 at 9:44 AM

-I totally agree Valiant. I was convicted a few weeks ago when I heard an interview with Warren on Christian radio (I think on Family Life Today or Dobson or something, don’t totally remember) and he was talking about the backlash he got over the Obama incident, and explaining why he had done it. He mentioned that the feedback he’d gotten from a lot of Christians was exactly the same as what he’d been getting from atheists and leftists, just without the profanity. That’s not saying much for his Christian brothers and sisters who, as he said, are very good at shooting each other in friendly fire. I don’t agree with everything he teaches or does (though I do applaud his AIDS conference which is NOT a liberal thing as some have implied) but I think we should be praying for him and how to communicate our concerns to/about him before firing off angry letters and blog comments. For better or for worse, he IS a very influential American Christian, and our prayers are one of the most effective things we can do for him.

Check out http://www.biblegateway.com. Be sure to set your version preferences to ‘ESV’.

JaHerer22 on December 19, 2006 at 3:37 PM

right2bright on December 19, 2006 at 12:42 PM

My apology to you

I find it difficult to pull out my bible and retort to someone like JaHerer22, when he could easily find these himself. This is Christianity 101.
Along with that is the verses supporting that Warren has to be held to a very exact standard, not just a standard for us believers. When you take on leadership you are judged more harshly. Please JaHerer22, look it up. Go to a concordance and look it up, there are several (hint: one would be James).

It was an honest question, I wasn’t looking to be retorted. I got plenty of answers, so thank you. And sorry, I don’t bring my Bible to work so I couldn’t really look it up.

I only hope he doesn’t destroy the faith of those he’s in the process of betraying.

Thanks for the link. Very interesting and disconcerting. If the “unity of the Body” is sacrificed so quickly to protect an agenda outside the church I’m even more convinced that Pastor Warren has a screwed-up conception of his “purpose”.

E.J. DIONNE, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: I think what you’re seeing with Rick Warren is almost a new version, a 2006 version, of Billy Graham.

Oh Rick! You’re my hero!!!

*GAG!*

Sorry. Should have provided a link this morning. Here is the one I relied on.

Warren could have easily avoided this whole mess by inviting some of the few pro-life dems out there, but he wanted the publicity from the “rising star” of US politics. Afterall, I don’t think Obama is a expert on AIDS (nor is Brownback). Both are Presidential hopefuls, though.

I’m sorry but when was it that it was made a rule that you had to call someone an asshole or a Neville Chamberlain to criticise and register the fact you deplored someone’s actions.

Theseus on December 19, 2006 at 12:42 PM

As far as I know there’s no actual rule that you have to do that, but personally I like to go the extra mile. Although in this case my use of “@sshole” was mostly a play on “back channel”, for those readers who possess a sense of humor. But if the shoe fits…

Theseus on December 19, 2006 at 12:42 PM

I agree with much that you say, and disagree with others. Ministers are by definition missionary’s, if they are only “preaching to the choir” than they are not much use. What use is it if a minister “plays it safe” Christ asks the leaders to step out, take risks, that is the strength of faith. When Graham went to Russia, yes he met with the leaders, but he met with the masses, and was broadcast on TV, which was the primary objective. He did not have his PR man pave the way. And quite the contrary to what you say, I think ministers should speak out on the gospel and step out with strength. Their calling is to minister, not politic. If they politic, then open season on their political stands. If Warren wants to politically align himself with Obama; with an abortionist supporter, or with a party who thinks the destruction of Israel is not of concern. Then Warren has to put up with the judgement.

“Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? James 3:11

The Ritz on December 19, 2006 at 12:14 PM

You are right, retort was or the word “like” was a little inflammatory. How about this:

One can easily look up these supporting verses in any concordance. That would give you a better perspective and meaning to what I am saying. If you have trouble please post again and I will provide the supporting verses.

As for comparing him to missionaries and others who risk their lives to spread the Gospel, Warren is not a missionary and and as far as I can tell doesn’t pretend to be one. He sees his job as different from a missionary. There are many ways to minister the Gospel. Graham, btw, met with leaders and not just the ordinary people, however that was in a different time when the media was less pervasive and there was no internet. The Gospel is for everyone, all classes of people and that includes the leaders of a nation.

I think alot of the criticism of Warren and other Christian leaders like Falwell and Dobson stems from the idea that they are not supposed to stand up at all. Christians are supposed to be seen and not heard, like good little children. Their place is in church, smiling alot and talking about God. Christians are to only trot out into the public sphere when they are needed to bless the mess of paganism and then return to the role of a mistress.

Well, I would like to ask Obama how he would feel about a politican who agree with him on most issues but feels that slavery should once again be legal. I mean we can’t agree on everything, right? I think Obama would say that that is such a heinous point of view that he could not allow himself to be associated with someone who believes that no matter what they believe on other issues.

Well, THAT is the way we who are pro-life feel. I don’t care how great a person anyone thinks Obama is, if he believes it should continue to be legal to destroy unborn children, then he is not following Christian tenets. Take or leave it, that is the truth. Be pro-choice if you wish, but don’t pretend that God would EVER want his greatest gift to us destroyed in the womb.

I believe that one day generations will look back at us and our abortion laws with the same horror that we look back at slavery today.

I find it difficult to pull out my bible and retort to someone like JaHerer22,

I didn’t mean my post as a retort, I thought JaHerer22 was asking a sincere question – unless I missed something. Just tryin’ to be helpful.

The book of Acts provides us with a model for the appropriate response. Peter and the apostles got in trouble for preaching about Christ around Jerusalem so the Jewish religio-political leaders snagged ‘em . . .

“Act 5:27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest questioned them,
Act 5:28 saying, “We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.”
Act 5:29 But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.”

In other words, Peter wasn’t going to stop doing what God had directly commanded him to do simply because a lower authority forbade it.

So this is our rule: We must disobey a lesser authority only when it directly commands us to disobey the higher authority. If we are treated harshly as a result, we entrust ourselves to God and “turn the other cheek”.

By the way, the cheek-turning attaches to individuals NOT governments. Governments are “avengers” remember? (see above) So when wrong doers strike us (i.e. 9-11) we rightfully expect our government to execute justice. All those “christians” out there who are telling GWB to turn our collective cheek in the war on terror are either sincere but misguided believers or they’re non-believers who are wrenching scripture completely around backwards.

What does this have to do with Warren? He needs to quit trying to back-channel peace to tyrants on our behalf, and let our government forcefully work for justice.

I find it difficult to pull out my bible and retort to someone like JaHerer22, when he could easily find these himself. This is Christianity 101.
Along with that is the verses supporting that Warren has to be held to a very exact standard, not just a standard for us believers. When you take on leadership you are judged more harshly. Please JaHerer22, look it up. Go to a concordance and look it up, there are several (hint: one would be James).