The Hillarycare Nightmare (Fri)
posted at 9:06 am on December 15, 2006 by Bryan
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The Pantsuit’s Peasant Plan is for everyone but Senators.Funny, that…
seejanemom on December 15, 2006 at 9:12 AM
Sorry…link above not hot. Not my fault, promise.
The Pantsuit’s Peasant Plan…it not just for peasants anymore. Love it Michelle!
seejanemom on December 15, 2006 at 9:14 AM
How about a little trackback scooby snack, Allah. Y’all owe me for yesterday…I’m such a whiner.
seejanemom on December 15, 2006 at 9:17 AM
I can vouche for this bit of information being a Canadian.
A few months ago, a woman has a miscarriage in the WAITING room. About a year ago, a friend’s grandfather DIED waiting for treatment for cameo treatment (probably a misspelling)
What really annoys me about socialized healthcare is those that are healthy suffer with their wallets. I never went to the hospital, hardly rely on medicine, and only go to the doctors for daily checkups.
However, despite not using their services, I’m still paying for them. And as you can see in this video, it still doesn’t work.
MarkyX on December 15, 2006 at 9:23 AM
If you go to the doctor for daily check-ups, you’re getting your money’s worth. lol!
EF on December 15, 2006 at 9:38 AM
These kinds of stories, and there are MANY more of them, need to be told over and over and over again in the next four years. Health care in the US is far above any anywhere….and we want to “fix” that?
Vanquisher on December 15, 2006 at 9:38 AM
According to Mark Steyn’s new book America Alone, there are more MRI scanners in the City of Phillie than in the entire country of Canada…
Where will the Canadian citizens get their emergency health care if we go single payer???
My mother, who lived in Maine, used to say that an illegal alien was the Canadian sitting next to her in the doctor’s office!
Babs on December 15, 2006 at 9:42 AM
Having watched how *expertly* FEMA handles disasters, such a bureaucracy to run health care is a no-brainer. Not.
Why is it I get the icky feeling that nationalized health care is a sneaky way of instituting an evil sustainable population policy???
Aunt B on December 15, 2006 at 9:43 AM
It seems to me that the Democrats/Liberals really want to kill everybody off so they have total control. Hillary doesn’t care about the medical plan because she will have great medical benefits no matter what system is in place.
Between this and abortion, let’s just kill off all the undesirables.
MikeyB on December 15, 2006 at 9:48 AM
Can we start with the congress critters??
MOMinuteman on December 15, 2006 at 9:51 AM
Aunt B – FEMA may not be the best analogy as to how nationalized health care would be managed. Think more like DMV.
eeyore on December 15, 2006 at 9:51 AM
Aunt B—You should try being Active Duty military —our insurance coverage should be a crime—support our troops—-WHAT A JOKE.
seejanemom on December 15, 2006 at 9:52 AM
Senator Tim with the brain bleed would get the care he needed regardless—CONGRESS NEVER LIVES BY THEIR OWN RULES.
Why do we stand for this?????
WHY?
seejanemom on December 15, 2006 at 9:54 AM
IT DOESN’T WORK!
Is anyone listening to what MarkyX is saying?
Does Hillary actually think she can make this wor, when history tells us, in every case when attempted, that it fails?
Lawrence on December 15, 2006 at 9:55 AM
As a Western New York resident, I’m gratified to hear that he came to the Buffalo area for his Cancer treatment. In all likelyhood he went to the Roswell Cancer Institute for his treatment.
Buffalo is blessed to have Roswell Cancer Institute, one of the premiere cancer treatment centers in all of North America at it’s disposal. And as the City of Good Neighbors, we will always welcome “Health Care Refugees” from Canada.
At least until Hillarycare utterly destroys our health care system. Then we’re all screwed. :(
wearyman on December 15, 2006 at 10:02 AM
My mother-in-law (U.S. born and still a U.S. citizen after 35 years in Canada) lives in Windsor, Ontario and as a classic liberal is a strong supporter of the Canadian health care system. However, she constantly complains about long waits to get medical appointments. She also complains that the number of doctors in Windsor has declined by more than half in the last ten years as doctors have fled to the U.S. and elsewhere. She is bemused that the son of a best friend plans to go to the U.S. to practice medicine after he gets his medical degree and condemns him as selfish.
Meanwhile, the Canadian health system, which is administered by the provinces separately based on national guidelines, is in crisis. Costs, which were half of those of the U.S., have been rising astronomically while the level of care, always substandard, has been declining. After adopting the present program, Canada was beseiged by persons coming across the border to take advantage of free medical care, but as the video shows, the flow is now overwhelmingly in the direction of the U.S. for the reasons shown in it.
My mother-in-law went to a private doctor in Windsor to get treament for an degnerative eye condition that has not been approved by the Canadian govenment. Therefore, it appears private doctors can do treaments not conflicting with what the doctors in the provincial health system do. Meanwhile, a court has declared that the Quebec government cannot outlaw private competition for the provincial health care system, but the decision is being appealed. Quebec has been a chamber of horrors as thousands are documented to have yearly died unnecessarily in its provincial hospitals.
I think Canada will move to a two-tiered system like that of the United Kingdom, which keeps health costs down by de facto rationing care in its public health care system but putting no restrictions on an unsubsidized private health care system which is used by those who can afford it.
ptolemy on December 15, 2006 at 10:34 AM
The problem with health care reform is many of us are so insulated from actual costs of healthcare. Not only do I not pay for most of my health care, I don’t even pay most of the cost of my health insurance. Yeah, I love my cushy PPO plan and it’s great I can see any doctor and get any drug I want for only $5, but that’s not the case for millions of Americans.
I think a single payer system is a bad idea too because if there is no competition it invites medocrity. But reform is needed. This is a good article for anyone interested.
JaHerer22 on December 15, 2006 at 10:35 AM
Oops.
JaHerer22 on December 15, 2006 at 10:36 AM
Goodness, those Hillary photos are frightening. She’s not aging well.
JammieWearingFool on December 15, 2006 at 10:43 AM
Are you talking about HillaryCare or Socialism? She and the Donks are pushing for both and this applies to both.
CrazyFool on December 15, 2006 at 10:50 AM
I can’t prove it but my theory about Tricare is that when Hillary’s health plan was jettisoned in the first clinton term they did the next best thing and changed the military health care to reflect that plan.
It did change around the same time. I went to a mandatory briefing to learn of all my new Tricare benefits. There was a retiree and his wife, couple whose military member was about to retire and me the smart alec with a decade of service.
I posed the following scenario/question to the briefer:
“Hypothetically I am a 55 year old retired vet who has just been diagnosed with cancer. Treatment is largely experimental and very expensive. Can you as the Primary Care Manager decide that I cannot receive care?”
They hemmed and hawed for a couple of minutes – I pushed it and finally she admitted that “Yes, that is possible BUT nothing stops me from paying the cost myself”.
Again, just a theory about it coming from the proposed national plan but timing wise, Tricare implementation did follow the failure of the Clinton plan for a national health care policy.
Bradky on December 15, 2006 at 10:55 AM
OH—YOU PAY…DUH. It is called the COST OF EMPLOYING YOU. Your employer does not love you THAT much that he is shelling for something without taking it— ULTIMATELY—out of your CASH COMPENSATION.
I bet you are one of those blockheads who thinks “I don’t even PAY taxes, because I get a REFUND every year! Heeheehee..” WAKE UP!
seejanemom on December 15, 2006 at 11:01 AM
This not exactly true, for U.S. workers receiving medical benefits through our employers.
Do not be fooled by what seems to be free here. Medical benefits and insurance are very much part of our compensation packages. These compensations factor directly into our overall wage scales, and our actual gross pay. The fact that it comes out before taxes and we don’t atually see the money sometimes leads us to thing it is free, but it isn’t.
While this is very much a form of socialized medicine, it is not yet to the point here in the U.S. where the goverment completely controls the medical treatment we actually get.
As reflected in Canada and U.K., socializing under complete government control does not increase the quality of the medical treatment at any level of the wage/class social scale. It in fact decreases the quality at every level while also making the whole system more expensive to everyone. {insert a long debate about taxes and economics}.
Yes, a few people do benefit from such a system, but at what cost? The facts prove that more people are hurt by these systems than are helped. The wealthy people abandon these systems and go to where they get proper medical treatment, while the poor end up with a broken system and worse overall health care.
Lawrence on December 15, 2006 at 11:03 AM
Bradky—YOU ARE RIGHT ON! I noticed the same damned thing. Can you tell I am REALLY passionate about this? I blogged it last night…I am SO ANGRY about this, it makes me shake.
seejanemom on December 15, 2006 at 11:03 AM
Very true. Tricare is definitely not working out like everyone promised.
Lawrence on December 15, 2006 at 11:06 AM
There are hundreds of thousands, if not a million, Health Care Physicians in the United States. Most of them, I would assume, are quite affluent. I doubt they would dare let this happen in America. Not to mention the taxpayer revolt that would ensue once the middle income American goes from paying 25% (+or-) to 40% or more. As with any other Government organization, doctors and other health care providers would become civil servants. Civil servants are sorely under paid and over worked, unless, of course, you’re a politician from New York in which case you will continue to be way over paid and under worked and can vote yourself substantial pay & benefit raises as often as you -and the rest of the cronies- see fit.
SilverStar830 on December 15, 2006 at 11:11 AM
It gripes me pretty well. Lots of things happened in the nineties that contributed to the current state. The “Peace Dividend” that was supposed to be savings from the end of the cold war really turned out to be a 50% cut in uniformed personnel – 2 million to one million. The combat units were kept and many of the cuts came from the support elements such as medical, etc. We needed to transform but not like that.
I will say that the proposed increase in Tricare premiums from 400 dollars a year to 1200 is reasonable as long as it is phased in. The retirees (me in a few months) have to realize that some increased costs due to inflation will be necessary. 400 dollars was the rate when it was implemented a dozen years ago. The recent push to bump it to 1200 in one year was too much but phasing over five years is not unreasonable IMHO.
Bradky on December 15, 2006 at 11:14 AM
The real begiing of healthcare reform should be stipulated on the reform of malpractics suits. Medical care in the US is so expensive because trial lawyers will sue a doctor for anything.
Doc leaves his rolex in my chest. Its a lawsuit. Crack whore who smokes 4 packs of marlboro reds a day and drinks a fifth of rotgut has a blue baby, and its a lawsuit. Which one is a valid suit? A trial lawyer will tell you both, and then bill you for his time. In reality only the rolex suit is valid, and if it were me I would waive the suit if I could keep the watch!
All these frivalouse lawsuits drives the cost of care up. Upstate Newyork has a huge problem with OBGYN’s because of the cost of malpractice insurance. Doctors are fleeing the area becasue if a baby is born with any problem at all, they get sued.
Socialised anything is bad. The ones who talk the most about “the plight of the people” are the ones who will be shopping in private malls, living in high scale atpartments, and seeing private doctors. (as evidenced during the soviet union). Socialism is nothing more then the destruction of mans abilty to determine his own fate (or her fate).
Wyrd on December 15, 2006 at 11:24 AM
Forget the Soviet Union, try the UK!
jic on December 15, 2006 at 11:41 AM
My wife is an RN in one of the most publicized hospitals in the NY metro area. She has told me on numerous occasions that they get a lot of Canadians in for procedures that would be delayed up north. I feel for them Canadians.
Secondly, I’m not very interested in having another Government run boondoggle that just creates a middleman for creating jobs justified by some politico for their own self-aggrandizement. Congress can work on straightening out Social Security and other government entities in making things more efficient and reducing our tax burden instead of pontificating.
USN6872 on December 15, 2006 at 11:54 AM
John Edwards made his money with junk science linking Palsy to Doctor’s not performing C-sections early enough. Result? Doctors now do [more dangerous] C-sections at the drop of a hat – and the number of Palsy victims remain the same..
Now Edwards is a democratic ‘leader’….
CrazyFool on December 15, 2006 at 11:59 AM
How long do you think before we have ‘Affirmative action’ in the scheduling of medical procedures?
Sorry but even though you need it more this person here is going to bump you in line because he’s -enter-ethnicicity-here-.
CrazyFool on December 15, 2006 at 12:03 PM
Another socialist scheme advocated by the Left to pander to their favored at the expense of others. The illegal alien in particular will just love this new Health Care Scheme. Not only will they take our jobs but we will be paying for over half of Mexico’s health care bills too – while you die in a waiting line.
An intelligent Hillary (there is a contradiction in terms) Health Care Plan – what a disaster looking to happen. Substandard care, increased cost and taxes, free care to the illegal alien – the question is whether the electorate will be smart enough to see through their deception.
I think Yes.
omegaram on December 15, 2006 at 12:26 PM
USA manufacturers compete against countries with subsidized health. We are inundated with commercials for Lipitor and Viagra. Hospitals each have expensive equipment, used a fraction of the time, just to compete with other hospitals in the same city. Group rates afforded to large companies are not available to small business. Malpractice insurance is skyrocketing. This is a bi-partisan issue, there is room to improve in many areas, our economy depends on it.
infidel on December 15, 2006 at 12:31 PM
I’m curious about the long waiting time for health care (as evidenced by the gentlemans’ wait for an MRI, a relatively simple procedure). If this Smithman guy (the Health Minister) needs an MRI, does he also wait four months? Or would he mysteriously get bumped to the head of the line? I’d like to see a Canadian journalist do an expose on the health care that gov’t officials receive.
dalewalt on December 15, 2006 at 1:02 PM
I’ll be damned if “The Pantsuit” is going to tell me what is good for me while her DIRTBAG SPINO (spouse in name only) has his heart attack and recovers in a private New York facility.
I do NOT begrudge anyone their ability to pay for what they want. If I want two mamograms, three Pap smears and a dozen colonoscopies “just to make sure”, then if my poor body AND my wallet can take it, IT SHOULD NOT BE DENIED TO ME.
That is ALL I am saying….money can’t buy you love, but it sure as hell buys good medical care. AS IT SHOULD!
seejanemom on December 15, 2006 at 1:04 PM
My Canadian-born retinal specialist (who treated me for free – can’t really call him greedy), plans to continue to practice in the US, then upon retirement, return to Canada to (his words) “suck at the teat of the government”.
mikeyboss on December 15, 2006 at 1:25 PM
An English doc on my emergency medicine discussion list speaks very highly of the British health care system, where, if I understand correctly, there is both “free” (taxes, of course) health care for all, plus a private system for those who choose to pay.
mikeyboss on December 15, 2006 at 1:30 PM
Well I definitely don’t want to switch to a Hillary Care system or anything like it however our own system here in the US is nothing to brag about.
I’ve been sick for almost 4 years now and none of my doctors has been able to put their finger on exactly why. I’ve had to self diagnose for just about every step of my treatment by going out on the net to look up my symptoms. I figured out that I had sleep apnea and not just insomnia. The sleeping pills my doctor had prescribed could have killed me by making me sleep through the apnea. That step took 3 months and that 3 months I was getting an average of 1-2 hours of sleep a night while taking sleeping pills.
Every step of this I’ve run into crappy doctors that don’t seem to want to spend the time with me to really figure out what’s going on.
My Grandmother had a similar experience with one of her doctors when she went in with some complaints and he told her, “You know, I could be helping someone with real problems.” So she found a new doctor that was willing to spend some time with her and figured out she did in fact have a real health issue.
Doctors here in the US seem to have adopted a practice of spending as little time as possible with each patient so they get their money for the smallest amount of work. So they might see you faster than they do in Soviet Canukistan but the quality of care still sucks.
Benaiah on December 15, 2006 at 1:49 PM
I suspect that Smithman visits the local witchdoctor.
Well, Comrades, this vent by Michelle (thanks again Michelle for making us aware of what is going on!) this vent says it all.
My friends have a daughter that is afflicted with autism. According to her, as I understand the situation, she and other parents of austistic children have tried to meet with HELLary concerning govt regulations about medicines and treatment for autism because many things are forced upon such parents….HELLary has REFUSED to meet with parents. She just impliments what she thinks is best and the parents must come and go by her leave, it seems.
Now, what Benaiah states has some validity. Because of the HMO regulations which DO bully and threaten the medical community by refusing payments until they see things the HMO way, many doctors do behave this way and some do have an attitude in general. But, good doctors do indeed exist who have not forgotten the true meaning of bedside manner.
The False Dervish on December 15, 2006 at 2:32 PM
Oh yeah, thirdly. I am really not enthusiastic with the thought of having the Clintons back in the White House. BJ will def need to be on a short leash this time since he won’t have anything to do other than chase skirts. If any of y’all remember Jimmie Carter had a brother, Billy. Well, BJ is the Rhodes scholar alter ego version of Billy Carter. BJ is one can short of a six pack when it comes to discretion.
USN6872 on December 15, 2006 at 3:13 PM
Just got this in my inbox. Interesting reading.
Socialized Medicine in a Wealthy Country by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.*
mikeyboss on December 15, 2006 at 4:08 PM
In this country, can you imagine it now? Let alone when they open the borders. Tens of thousands of illegals in line for everything imagineable and you will have to wait.
It would make Canadas system look like an HOV lane. I’m thinking of LA traffic jams, in our hospitals/Dr. offices.
shooter on December 15, 2006 at 4:30 PM
OUR health care system Is under the control of major pharma and insurance companies. Look at the money being spent on tv and other advertisements about all kinds of drugs. Why no cures?? They won’t make money if they really go after cures, period. There is a few companies out in our world that take a natural healthy way of healing illnesses and not using drugs is the main culprit. I could go on and on but won’t. The laws need to be changed and fast before it is too late and more and more people die needlessly. Look at school budgets, lot of cost just in health benifits and rising every year at an enormous rate. I know people in Uk and waiting 4 years to have knee or hip surgery even though it might be free only causes other problems. Hillarycare is a joke. Our VA system needs to be looked at strongly and helped and used as a model not as a dumping ground or used as a political football. We can all start in our own states by going after our congressmen and senators and really get something going in this country. I get BS’d when I see people like Hillcary start harping that she can be our cure all. People need to wake up and soon.
bones47 on December 15, 2006 at 5:32 PM
Don’t you see you are actually pointing out a good result? The fact that she could switch doctors and get treatment is something that would never happen under a more socialized system. She would have been stuck with the first doctor period. A governemnt doctor doesnt make a mistake when they tell you nothing is wrong!
Resolute on December 15, 2006 at 6:17 PM
It is unconscionable that this man was not able to get the care he needed in a civilized country like Canada. I shuddered as I watched the clip; my 11 year old son has an inoperable, benign tumor in his brain. He has to have an MRI EVERY SIX MONTHS to monitor it and make sure it stays benign. I hate to think how it would be if we lived in Canada, or had their system. But I guess my family doesn’t matter to Hillary – I actually have a job that offers health insurance.
It’s funny, though – in single-payer systems, where does the money come from? Taxpayers. Who pays for it when welfare moms and illegal aliens use the emergency room as a family doctor – taxpayers.
One final note: I wish these libs would stop whining about how people don’t have health CARE. My above comment illustrates that anyone can go to an ER and be treated, regardless of ability to pay. What people can’t afford is health INSURANCE, which can be prohibitively expensive for poor families, especially if they smoke, etc. The reason: government regulation.
OK, rant over.
Jezla on December 15, 2006 at 6:39 PM
Often true, but there are many cases where no payment at all is made. In these cases, the hospitals and docs are providing care for free. ER docs typically collect about 45% of what they bill, as compared with 90% plus for family docs.
mikeyboss on December 15, 2006 at 7:12 PM
He likely would have died… but it’s free
Opinionnation on December 15, 2006 at 7:45 PM
So what NOW we”re sorry about the election. Did anyone do their homework? What did all the protest non voters think they were going to get. The frustration is gonna be unbearable watching the Dems in the next years. Their gonna cut getto style , long, deep and wide. They are gonna try to cut the nuts off the whole damn country. Not to mention the propaganda onslaught. Its all about the money and then power! They want to do away with free enterprise, dumb us down, feed us meds and house us in government housing.
sonnyspats1 on December 15, 2006 at 10:08 PM
Always remember… “Nothing is Free”.
RalphyBoy on December 15, 2006 at 10:52 PM
Of course nothing is free. It really annoys me to hear my fellow Canadians saying “At least our healthcare is free”. My answer is to simply point out taxes on the paycheques and say “where does that money go then?”
Someone else mentioned about lack of competition between doctors. Technically, you are somewhat right and wrong.
The doctors in Ontario get paid based on the amount of patients that visit them. The more people who visit their clinics, the more they get paid. That’s how the system works.
So there is a bit of competition around here concerning the quality of doctors, however from what I have been reading here, the experiences have not been that much different from the United States counterpart.
Either way, it seems to be a scenario of “grass is greener on the other side” syndrome. But if I wanted a healthcare system to bitch about, it would be one that would grant me treatment within a week then several months.
MarkyX on December 16, 2006 at 9:00 AM
US healthcare system is in the toilet. We pay more as a % of GNP than any other nation, and yet we have about 40 million people with no health insurance. Compared to Canada, we have both a higher infant mortality rate and a lower life expectancy. With all due respect to the Canadian poster,
People die. Show me the causal relationship.
Also, this bit of misinformation has been repeated so often that people take it as fact
Not true. Want proof? There are significant differences in the laws regulating malpractice from state to state–some very liberal, some very conservative. The insurance rates don’t differ that much. Also, according to the latest info, the cost of malpractice insurance and payouts amounts to about .4% of total healthcare costs.
Both the medical establishment and big business are starting to put their weight behind some version of national health care. It’s no longer a question of if, but of when.
honora on December 16, 2006 at 11:39 AM
But honora, there is also the practice of “defensive medicine”. Bumped his head? Get a CT scan.
Also, I happen to practice in a very doctor-friendly state, malpractice-wise. Neighboring states have shortages of docs because they’d rather practice here.
mikeyboss on December 16, 2006 at 11:48 AM
I think I have heard President Bush repeat at least one thousand times since he took office, the fact is we need tort reform. He also is the #1 proponent of ending frivolous lawsuits.
sonnyspats1 on December 16, 2006 at 8:49 PM
Benaiah:
At least on the Apnea thing, I am SO with you on this one. I have Apnea, and I had to self-diagnose because the 4-5 doctors couldn’t figure out what was wrong and just wanted to put me on drugs for THIS symptom and THAT symptom… one of which was the pills, which as you pointed out, could have been the last thing I ever took.
On the other hand, imagine you’re in a single-payer system. The doctors are not magically better, in fact they have less incentive to get it done right and certainly less to get it done in a hurry. You have your appointments 3-4 months apart, and it turns out the treatment you need isn’t covered, so you have to settle for something less – which doesn’t work.
Yeah, if monopolies are so great, why isn’t Ma Bell still the only player? Why do liberals hate Wal-Mart but love socialized medicine?
Yeah, we REALLY need a medical system that’s not only a monopoly, but a monopoly with government authority.
Like THAT’s never gone wrong before.
Merovign on December 17, 2006 at 12:55 AM
Looks like a case of good news and bad news to me. First the bad news: “Illness, disease, and other physical infirmities make life hard.” Now the good news “Fortunately, Hillary wants to make certain that it (life) is short.”
CyberCipher on December 18, 2006 at 1:07 AM
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