Ten Commandments judge: Congress should refuse to seat Keith Ellison
posted at 1:22 pm on December 13, 2006 by Allahpundit
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Actually, he might be going quite a bit further than that. I can’t tell if he thinks it’s the oath that should be the litmus test or an adherence to the Koran independent of the oath. How would he come down, I wonder, if Ellison agreed to swear on the Bible for symbolic reasons but remained a true-believing Muslim?
The Islamic faith rejects our God and believes that the state must mandate the worship of its own god, Allah…
Islamic law is simply incompatible with our law. Jaafar Sheikh Idris, founder and chairman of American Open University, a radical Islamic school that has received funding from suspected al-Qaida sources and which supports Islamic law, recently stated that “Islam cannot be separated from the state,” and that no Muslim elected to Congress or the White House can swear to uphold the United States Constitution and still be a Muslim, because the law of Allah as expressed in the Quran is supreme. Idris was recently deported for his illegal activities. While we certainly disagree with Idris’ radical extremism, he at least knows what Islam is all about!…
Our Constitution states, “Each House [of Congress] shall be the judge … of the qualifications of its own members.” Enough evidence exists for Congress to question Ellison’s qualifications to be a member of Congress as well as his commitment to the Constitution in view of his apparent determination to embrace the Quran and an Islamic philosophy directly contrary to the principles of the Constitution. But common sense alone dictates that in the midst of a war with Islamic terrorists we should not place someone in a position of great power who shares their doctrine. In 1943, we would never have allowed a member of Congress to take their oath on “Mein Kampf,” or someone in the 1950s to swear allegiance to the “Communist Manifesto.” Congress has the authority and should act to prohibit Ellison from taking the congressional oath today!
He mentions that Ellison was supported by CAIR and spoke at the same NAIF conference that featured speakers from American Open University, but I don’t think he’s trying to cast him as a radical; rather he’s trying to erase the distinction between radicals and non-radicals entirely insofar as both groups believe in the supremacy of Islamic law. What he’s really asking is whether Muslims who take their faith seriously can, in good conscience, sincerely agree to uphold the religious clauses of the First Amendment. Which is not a little ironic.
And of course, it’s a square violation of the religious-test clause. He’d counter that he has two other clauses on his side — the qualifications clause, which he mentions, and of course the clause mandating the oath to support and defend the Constitution. I don’t know how you’d police the latter, though: if Ellison’s willing to take the oath, then it’s for him to resolve the conflict between his beliefs and the duties he’s sworn to execute. As for the qualifications clause, I’ve always found it bizarrely anti-democratic. If a majority from the congressman’s district wants him there, what business is it of the rest of the chamber if he’s “qualified”? If he’s elected, he’s qualified. But we go to war with the Constitution we have, and the Constitution we have says Congress can set its own qualifications for membership — except for religion, per the religious-test clause. Which Moore, not surprisingly, doesn’t even attempt to address.
More here from dorkafork on Ellison, the oath, and Dennis Prager’s inconsistent arguments thereof.
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C’mon, we don’t want to offend anyone.
JammieWearingFool on December 13, 2006 at 1:32 PM
The people elected him. This is as much a case involving the current influence of immigration as it is a problem with where someone’s loyalties lie, for many of Ellison’s supporters are immigrants with Muslim roots.
Right or wrong, he won his seat fair and square.
If people don’t like the results, they can change the rules, but not retroactively. Then, in the future, those rules can prevent anyone from being elected who does not swear allegiance to the United States over any religion or any other country.
Till then, Ellison is the rightfully elected official from his district and his track must not be obstructed.
William
William2006 on December 13, 2006 at 1:41 PM
Your Honor,
You are an idiot.
No Religious Test.
Wander on December 13, 2006 at 1:42 PM
Because they had balls (bleep!) back then. This current generation has been neutered by political correctness among other things.
jman on December 13, 2006 at 1:45 PM
Doesn’t the Judiciary Act only apply to judges? Moore seems to be taking it further than it was intended and placing tradition above the constitution.
Slublog on December 13, 2006 at 1:47 PM
Actualy an interesting point, and one the MEDIA should have asked during the election…
How can someone who follows Islam swear to uphold the Constitution? Islam is not just a religion, but a system of law, which according to their own writings, take precedence over other law.
They are essentially imcompatable…
Sooo… either he will support one, or the other…
But of course, since its OK to LIE to non-Moslems as a tactic of war, and because Jihad HAS been declared… he could just lie to the press anyway.
Romeo13 on December 13, 2006 at 1:54 PM
We are not a democracy, we are a Representative Republic. Congress has always had the right to set it’s own rules for membership. Under the 14th Amendament “No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Can it be argued that he has given aid/comfort to the enemy by speaking to American Open Univ?
Just a question, but one that should be looked into and if he is seated – WATCHED CLOSELY
dallas94 on December 13, 2006 at 2:03 PM
This controversy is so silly. Ellison should just convert to Christianity and be done with this.
frankj on December 13, 2006 at 2:10 PM
We should not be openly discussing this as it is offensive. Instead, we should be openly discussing whether there ever was a “holocaust”.
Sarcasm.
Rick on December 13, 2006 at 2:11 PM
I’ll see your 14th Amendment and raise you with Article VI:
As Allah points out, Moore’s argument is directly contrary to this clause.
Slublog on December 13, 2006 at 2:20 PM
Now THAT is a great idea!
“frankj,” you’re a GENIUS!
William
William2006 on December 13, 2006 at 2:21 PM
No religious test shall be required, yes, but the forefathers did not seem to be very aware of the theo-political phenomenon of Islam.
Islam is not merely a religion in which adherents worship a deity. Islam is a political-legal system which is inseparable from the religion of Islam.
They are one and the same.
There is a difference with the 14th amendment does not address. That does create a problem when seen in the light of Islamic Jihad against the US who where loyalties really lie.
William
William2006 on December 13, 2006 at 2:25 PM
and Dennis Prager’s inconsistent arguments thereof.
Really? Inconsistent? You’re wrong about that. But just for grins, I dare you to debate Dennis on the issue. Call him, mention who you are, and I’m sure he’ll clean your clock.
Prager, and the Judge are correct. If we let this slide, then the crack opens bigger and something else will come up. Where do we draw the line and start defending OUR American civilization, values, and culture.
Andy in Agoura Hills on December 13, 2006 at 2:26 PM
Judges like this guy on one side and organizations like CAIR on the other are doing nothing but making the problem worse and drawing attention away from the real issues. Unless this guy is a complete moron he knows Ellison will be sworn in and thus the only reason for this judgement is to get himself some publicity and stir up his Muslim-hating base. CAIR is doing essentially the same thing with their new flying while Muslim hotline.
There are real issues that need to be addressed and there is a real war going on and none of this helps solve either. This judgement will surely provoke a ridiculous response from CAIR, which will surely provoke this judge and followers to return the favor with something equally as absurd and counter-productive.
JaHerer22 on December 13, 2006 at 2:33 PM
William, Islam has been around for centuries, so I find it highly unlikely that our educated founding fathers had never considered the political-legal ramifications of that religion.
Quite frankly, so long as he takes the oath and agrees to uphold the Constitution, that’s all that’s required. Not to mention that, as the first muslim in congress, he’s carrying a heavy burden with all eyes on him. He can’t afford to screw up or be too controversial. Imagine the ramifications for future potential muslim politicians if the first one they put into office was found to lie under oath or “give aid and comfort” to the enemy. I’ll bet you could tell me the weather conditions in Hades the next day a muslim would be elected to a post.
Hootie on December 13, 2006 at 2:38 PM
Lou Dobbs has an article attacking political correctness today. Yes, I know I’m directing you to CNN.
I think as long as he swears on his holy book to uphold our Constitution, it should be allowed.
amerpundit on December 13, 2006 at 2:38 PM
Given the broad wording of the first amendment, I think the founders were willing to give religion the benefit of the doubt in most cases. Perhaps they didn’t see the specific issues related to Islam, but I believe unless Ellison has explicitly supported another government or given aid and comfort to the enemy, he should be given his seat because overturning the will of those who voted for him would set a terrible legal precedent.
My major problem with Moore’s arguments in general is his constant refrain equating constitutional law with Judeo-Christian belief. I respect his intent – we should fight attempts to remove all religious voices from public life – but think he takes it too far in assuming that the only legitimate voices allowed are those who agree with one particular religion.
Slublog on December 13, 2006 at 2:39 PM
Exactly. The two are mutually exclusive. It is impossible to both defend the constitution of the United States AND rigidly adhere to Islam. This has NOTHING to do with a “religious test.” We have to remeber that Islam is NOT “just a religion.” It is a political system that is hostile to every principle set forth within the constitution of the United States. It is illegal to advocate or incite violent overthrow of the United States government. Yet that is PRECISELY what Islam advocates. Case closed. This guy has got NO BUSINESS taking office here. As others have predicted in this thread, we can either deal with it now, or we can deal with it later. But you can bet your bippy that if we deal with it later, it will be FAR more costly, and FAR more unpleasant.
CyberCipher on December 13, 2006 at 2:40 PM
Every once in a while the whiners are right about something — you know, like a stopped clock.
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on December 13, 2006 at 2:44 PM
Ironic? Is Political Christianity inconsistent with the constitution? (please save the usual Libertarian diatribe)
Is not the question of Sharia and the constitution a legitimate one?
Is Ellison not to be questioned?
It is the dominant belief that ALL Muslims are to jihad for Sharia whereever and whenever they can, you know this Allah. Catholics were properly assimilated and Protestanized so to shall the Muslims.
A larger issue that Robert Spencer brings up is that Wahhabism, Salafism, Qutbism(sp?) and the like have never been discredited in the same way Marxism, and Shintoism were. That makes me leary of Muslims that are not overtly in support of our Constitution instead of Sharia. But I’m just overreacting…
Theworldisnotenough on December 13, 2006 at 2:47 PM
You know, this thread is not sufficiently fired up.
How about some Tancredo news?
Slublog on December 13, 2006 at 2:54 PM
Islam has been at war with the rest of the world since the 7th century, and STILL there are Americans who are totally ignorant about it. But, they won’t be for too much longer.
NRA4Freedom on December 13, 2006 at 3:15 PM
The answer to this question is easy and found here:
1 Peter 2:13-14 (New International Version)
If ANYONE can show me anything in the quran/sharia law that even comes close to this, I’d sure like to see it.
CyberCipher on December 13, 2006 at 3:15 PM
And soy milk!
SouthernGent on December 13, 2006 at 3:58 PM
GIVE ME A BREAK!!
At least this current generation didn’t segregate the schools or make bathrooms for “coloreds” only. Good job there!!
Rep. Ellison is an American. Give him the benefit of the doubt.
I was really annoyed when he refused to meet the President.
budorob on December 13, 2006 at 4:39 PM
It sounds like some people here are willing to amend the Constitution simply to add that “no religious test shall be required (expect for Muslims).”
Give me a break.
Nonfactor on December 13, 2006 at 4:51 PM
Okay. So I’ll try again. This has nothing to do with a “religious test.” Rigid adherence to Islamic law MEANS that a Muslim MUST advocate violent overthrow of the United States government. This is because, unlike Christians, “true” Muslims MUST refuse to recognize ANY authority except Allah and his prophet Mohammed. I don’t know how it could be any more clear. Muslims should not be permitted to hold office here, not “because of their religion,” but because their stance on who they recognize as authority makes it impossible for them to uphold the constitution of the United States.
CyberCipher on December 13, 2006 at 5:29 PM
He ought to be seated. Then, if there is evidence that he has violated his oath of office (such as committing treasonous acts by sending money to terrorist organizations), Ellison should be booted from Congress, arrested and imprisoned.
.
GT on December 13, 2006 at 6:44 PM
The ignorance is building and building and reaching critical mass.
You’re under the assumption that EVERY single Muslim in the world that follows the teachings of Islam believes in the violent overthrow of the United States. You are simply wrong. The people that say “true” Muslims believe in a violent overthrow are extremists and people like you using their quotes to further a political agenda.
Out of curiosity, do you personally know any Muslims?
Nonfactor on December 13, 2006 at 7:00 PM
One out of every five students at the college that I attended (many years ago now) was Muslim (or at least Arabic). There are currently many Muslims at my place of employment. I eat lunch with them from time-to-time. So yes, I DO know some Muslims here in the U.S. They AREN’T very good ones — in the sense that they DO NOT rigidly adhere to the teachings of Islam. IMHO, they might as well renounce Islam, because they don’t truly believe in it. My point is that there are about 10-15% of Muslims worldwide that TRULY adhere to the teachings of Islam. They are the individuals that want to kill all Jews and Christians. You can try to tell me that that the other 85-90% are Muslim as well, but I’m not buying it. That other 85-90% can not even tell you what their religion teaches and most of them have never read the Koran. (Most can not read Arabic.) Now are you beginning to see “where I am coming from”?
CyberCipher on December 13, 2006 at 8:00 PM
Islam is a form of government, and so when Ellison takes the oath of office, he will be swearing in to support another form of government. A government (Islam) that does not:
– VOTE
– Support free speach
– Protect human rights
– Support religious freedom
– Support Due Process
Mr Ellison Cannot be seated as a member of congress with out abridging our rights as citizens.
It’s that simple, We need him to say an additional oath of office, and if he wishes to do it without a bible, FINE!
Lee
Lee on December 13, 2006 at 8:52 PM
Funny, that’s the opinion of yourself, and the Islamic extremists. I know plenty of Muslims who, believe it or not, aren’t hell-bent on the destruction of the United States.
You’re the type of person who marginalizes “good” Muslims by stating they “really aren’t Muslims at all” or “they might as well give it up;” do you honestly think that’s helpful?
Your argument is so ignorant. It’s like me calling you a horrible Christian (I’m assuming your Christian, here) because you don’t adhere to Christ’s sermon on the hill to give up all your belongings or let someone take your belongings and not care at all. If you don’t believe in this IMHO I think you should just give it up because you aren’t TRULY adhering to the teachings of Christianity.
The Muslim extremists pick and choose sections of the Qur’an to believe in just like Christians pick and choose sections of the Bible to believe in. And calling the people who don’t believe in violent conversion or the abandonment of personal property not “very good” believers is stupid and irrational.
Nonfactor on December 13, 2006 at 10:01 PM
I believe that it IS helpful to us all — if the teachings of Islam can be EXPOSED for what they truly are.
I believe that people that “pick and choose sections of the Qur’an to believe in” are not good Muslims. And yes, I believe that people that “pick and choose sections of the Bible to believe in” are not good Christians, as well. Don’t stop there. People that “pick and choose portions of the Talmud to believe in” are not very good Jews. And people that “pick and choose portions of the Communist Manifesto and its theory of dialectical materialism to believe in” are not very good communists.
Furthermore, I would argue that I am not very good at being “stupid and irrational” (your words, not mine) since I am only stupid on rare occasions and usually irrational only when I am trying to get someone to laugh. And there’s a lot people reading these posts that are laughing at both of us right about now.
CyberCipher on December 13, 2006 at 10:29 PM
I didn’t call you stupid and irrational, I did however state that:
was stupid and irrational.
Nonfactor on December 13, 2006 at 11:06 PM
They are all officially sworn in without ANY book bible or other wise present. Some elect to have a private ceremony and can choose to use the Bible, Koran, Bhagavad-Gita or Tora.
gmcjetpilot on December 14, 2006 at 12:55 AM
I don’t believe that Judge Moore’s point equates to a religious test. As others have said, Islam is more than a religion, it is a prescribed set of societal laws as well.
The judge doesn’t have an issue with a Muslim serving in elected office, but with whether that Muslim will be lying in his oath of office. If a person is whole-hearted in their devotion to Islam, to the inclusion of the belief that Islam is the only proper form of societal rule on earth, then that person defies the U.S. Constitution as the foundation of law for this nation.
I find no irony here, AP. By the historical standards of this nation, Judge Moore’s monument was in no way innappropriate, and you will be hard pressed to find a single example of him applying his faith in a way that denies anyone else’s complete freedoms under our Constitution.
Christianity presents itself as the only true doctrine of the Almighty’s relationship with man. Yet evangelical Christians like Judge Moore wouldn’t diminish a Muslim’s (Jew’s, Buddhist’s, Taoist’s, Shintoist’s, etc) freedom to be devoted to their faith.
Islam presents itself as the only true doctrine of the Almighty’s relationship with man. How many Muslims would take the same stand for a Christian’s (et al) freedom to their faith? As I understand it, an infidel is less than a human, and given three choices: Conversion, dhimmitude, or death.
Judge Moore’s question, and I find no problem with it, is can a person who believes that honestly uphold the Constitution?
Freelancer on December 14, 2006 at 3:34 AM
You mean like violators of the Logan Act are booted from Congress, arrested, and imprisoned? Ellison is a Democrat, they don’t get in trouble when they commit crimes, they get applauded and reelected.
Freelancer on December 14, 2006 at 3:40 AM
The people in westside Minneapolis elected him, but did they elect him knowing about his actions since being elected?
I know, let’s put it to a referendum and let the people who elected him determine what he swears on.
Captain America on December 14, 2006 at 8:25 AM
Sorry you are wrong and so is he. That religious test clause can only be hermeneutically interepreted as Denomination.
This is also verifiable in the fact that virtually all states (Save RI) requiring in the Original Consitutions that elected officials uphold the diety of Jesus Christ to hold office.
Tim Burton on December 14, 2006 at 1:37 PM
If you think the Politicians believe in their oath that they take to the Constitution then I have a bridge for sale.
I have long contended people like Nancy Pelosi are unfit for office because they belong to groups like the DSA, Democratic Socialists of America,that want to over throw our form of Government.
Did they not take the oath when the joined the Democratic Caucus which is nothing but a Front Group for the DSA? There are approximately 70 members of that group serving in congress right now that has a mission statement to eliminate private property and redistribution of wealth.
Surely they cannot take an oath to the Constitution when they believe in socialism. Our Country was founded on private property rights as enumerated in the founding document.
I think Judge Moore is absolutely correct. For too long we have allowed our Politicians to ignore the rule of law that is our Constitution with impunity. They have made a mockery of our Republican form of Government by picking and choosing the parts of the Constitution they intend to follow.
Every time I hear a pundit or politician call America a Democracy…I cringe.
Maybe someone could point out when we amended the Constitution to allow a department of education, as an example. Or when we amended the constitution to allow foreign aid to be handed out by a committee in congress.
To be honest, we are about a thousand amendments behind the curve and many things they do in Government today are strictly un-Constitutional.
Our politicians in Congress give lip service to the founding document only when it is convenient for them to follow it.
My 2 cents.
ScottyDog on December 14, 2006 at 7:49 PM
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