Liberals find it so easy to give up. Thanks for proving this fact. And you wonder where our discouragement with the faithlessness of the liberal politicians who send our warriors into battle and then disparage the cause. The disappointment over the agenda-driven liberal media that fails to report our successes as warriors and humanitarians.

You my dear are the epitomy of the liberal left. EVERYTHING is about you. About making yourself feel good about your do-nothing life. You just keep telling yourself as long as I spout my hatred and anger I’ll be worth listening to, I’ll bring change to the table. Never pondering at what cost. Never realizing your misdirection.

Bu-bye.

Do you realize I can’t find even one sentence from you in this entire thread that would reflect even a slight knowledge of which you speak. I was right after all, you are a comedian.

Griz on December 12, 2006 at 2:49 PM

I’m amazed you go back to read my posts, geez, get a life. Also, so you won’t have totally wasted your time, today’s word is comedienne, the feminine of comedian. There, you’ve learned something.

You won’t be hearing from me again, you’re going onto the ignore list. Bu-bye.

And that’s the best you can do? You should have ran and hid if that’s the best argument you can convey. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. At any rate I guess we’ve decided negotiations with Iran is futile.

Griz on December 12, 2006 at 1:40 PM

..negotiations is futile…they certainly is. I thought I told you to get lost.

Are you a comedian by profession? You are a very funny person. I did read your post and basically you were saying we should have negotiated with terrorists through terrorist states. As far as having traveled to Pakistan or Iran you must not have left the Hilton. I’d have to see your passport to even believe you. Had you ever been in a middle-eastern street or been exposed to any islamic law you’d realize just how futile negotiations would be.

Griz on December 11, 2006 at 8:20 PM

What? Some nasty twit who has not yet mastered the art of reading and comprending doesn’t believe me when I say I’ve traveled to mideast! Where are my smelling salts?

Listen Griz–I have come to learn on this site there are 2 kinds of people who disagree with me: those who have honest disagreements and are capable of mounting a coherent argument, and those who reflexively hurl insults (and frankly aren’t very good at that) assuming they are being clever.

It’s been my experience in real life that the only ones worth my time are the former. Interestingly, these tend to be people who are successful and contributing members of society, not losers whose only recourse is stealthily emailing their nonsense to people who in real life they probably wouldn’t dare interact with.

Get lost.

Waziristan, Pakistan is a hard place to find, or at least it seems so. It is part of what is more popularly known as the “Federally Administered Tribal Areas”, which is along the border of Afghanistan. The area is located at approx 32°N 7…

We’re killing them militarily but the zombie army has an endless supply of manpower.

Speaking broadly, how are the inhabitants of the Dar al-Islam fed? Especially, how much of their food comes from the farms of the American Plains? I don’t know; I’m asking. But to what extent are we fostering the population explosion within the Dar al-Islam, feeding the fighters of today and the unassimilated immigrants of tomorrow? Does anyone reading this have sufficient knowledge of global agriculture and trade to provide an answer?

I was making the point that we foolishly rejected the opportunity to negotiate with countries like Iran when we had the upper hand and could dictate our terms. Those days are gone, thanks to the numbnuts neocons.

honora on December 11, 2006 at 4:56 PM

Are you a comedian by profession? You are a very funny person. I did read your post and basically you were saying we should have negotiated with terrorists through terrorist states. As far as having traveled to Pakistan or Iran you must not have left the Hilton. I’d have to see your passport to even believe you. Had you ever been in a middle-eastern street or been exposed to any islamic law you’d realize just how futile negotiations would be.

just because there isn’t a video up on Youtube showing the actual negotiations or the NYTimes running a leaked story doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

reaganaut on December 11, 2006 at 6:52 PM

This is great huh? When the NYT says it happened, its shit, a lie, the liberal press doing its worst. Never happened. But when they don’t say, well, that another story. In reaganaut’s head anyhow.

Also, just because a couple diplomats issued a couple of prepared remarks showing support for the U.S. after 9/11 doesn’t mean we had any tangible “goodwill” or extra support.

They were in the streets of Teheran (scroll down to see) marching in support of the US and against the criminals responsible for the attacks.

You can’t negotiate forever, though, no matter how much the UN, the EU and left would like it. We also must know when to negotiate, when not to, and when to stop. Of course we aren’t going to be correct all the time, but damn it, the left needs to just “stifle” with their 20/20 hindsight BS. All I hear is we should have, we should have, blah, blah, blah. Let’s see what went wrong with a bipartisan commission, blah, blah, blah…

Also, just because a couple diplomats issued a couple of prepared remarks showing support for the U.S. after 9/11 doesn’t mean we had any tangible “goodwill” or extra support. Tired of hearing that talking point as well.

Why start now? There was a time–right after we knocked out the Taliban in A–when we had all the momentum and good will on our side. That was when we should have started dialogue with the key players. Negotiate from strength and all that.

honora, you just don’t get it, do you?

We never had good will. We had the uncomfortable support of a world waiting to see how we’d react. Once they realized that we hadn’t gone postal, they began hurriedly trying to recover the ground they’d lost during their “show of support.”

The world that helped the extremists accrue the power they did before 9-11, didn’t just evaporate after 9-11. The UN that was padding the pockets of Saddam, persecuting Israel and actively supporting Hamas and Hezbollah didn’t just go away after their darling little “radicals” got out of control on 9-11.

The world that hated America before 9-11 hated us during 9-11 and continues to hate us today. Get your head out of the sand.

the scarlet A

The Scarlett F…for Failure

…these would be the walking dead.

CliffHanger on December 11, 2006 at 3:34 PM

Actually, the zombies should be in little pieces, here and there…

If by “dialogue” you mean “large quantity of heavy ordnance”, well, yes, we DO need some dialogue.

Dinsdale Piranha on December 11, 2006 at 3:45 PM

hehehe

And now, “privately,” those on the Pakistani government side are somehow amazed at how things turned out: “No matter how much lipstick we slathered on it, it’s still a pig?!?”

Given that the Pakistani government has effectively punted, we now have two plausible choices:

1. Act in accordance with military axiom that victory is achieved by taking the offensive to the enemy, and begin a policy of “hot pursuit” across the Afghan-Talibanistan border. If the Pakistanis object, remind them of how they gave up any standing to do so by engaging in such a ridiculous “arrangement” with the warlords.

- or -

2. Act in accordance with the military axiom that victory is impossible by adopting a solely defensive posture, and that in such event the best outcome to hope for is simply not to be defeated. Go along with the “decent interval” before bailing out approach that the ISG has in mind for Iraq, then watch everything fall apart again.

With the donkey party in charge in Congress over the next two years (at least), and weak-kneed NATO allies now in charge of much of our military effort in Afghanistan, I have a disturbing suspicion that option #2 is where we’re eventually headed.

Hey there! Nice to see you’re up and about after…well, you know

Don’t remind me, I made the mistake of going.

honora, watching the National Geographic Channel doesn’t count.

Rick on December 11, 2006 at 5:01 PM

Hey there! Nice to see you’re up and about after…well, you know. I was in Pakistan last in 2000. Iran, well not to date myself, but when the Shah was on the Peacock throne. God I’m old…..

Fine, name peace deals reached in the Middle East where the nation in question kept their word.

I will give you the only one I am able to recall. Egypt in the Camp David Accords, Carter Administration. Next example? Any other examples?

Snake307 on December 11, 2006 at 4:23 PM

Does Iran-Contra count? (Geez, what kind of moron would deal with the Ayatollah….)

Taliban and Allies Tighten Grip in North of Pakistan PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Islamic militants are using a recent peace deal with the government to consolidate their hold in northern Pakistan, vastly expanding their training of suicide bombers and other…

Including Iran and Pakistan

honora, watching the National Geographic Channel doesn’t count.

Prode, as in cattle prode…

Prod. Rhymes with rod. Prode would rhyme with rode.

You don’t seem to understand the difference between a country and a terrorist organization. Are you suggesting there is anything to gain by negotiating with terrorists? Or are you suggesting that negotiating with Iran or Pakistan would yield anything other than broken promises they are completely incapable of keeping?

Who doesn’t understand the difference between a country and a terrorist organization? If you read my post to understand what I was saying–which you obviously didn’t, you were dying to jump in with your insight (needs work), you would realize I was making the point that we foolishly rejected the opportunity to negotiate with countries like Iran when we had the upper hand and could dictate our terms. Those days are gone, thanks to the numbnuts neocons.