Read “Wild at Heart”. Same idea but much better execution from the sounds of it.

Benaiah on December 10, 2006 at 3:14 PM

The most attractive man in existence today is the real man who loves God. Irresistable.

JustTruth101 on December 10, 2006 at 3:19 PM

I think Stine is onto something here.

’scuse me while I go blow some crap up!

infidel4life on December 10, 2006 at 3:25 PM

The dweeby Christian, the smug “Christ Follower”, and now this. That’s quite a Scylla-Charybdis-um, second Scylla situation Christians are in.

Alex K on December 10, 2006 at 3:56 PM

I was raised in the Methodist church…

Last year we lost my father, and could not even put his FAVORITE hymn, Onward Christian Soldier into the service in the church he litteraly helped build, and maintained fulltime for the last 15 years of his life….

Why??? cause to the “New” Methodist church there is no such thing as a justified war, so they took it, and many other songs, out of the hymnal and would not allow it.

I will never step foot in that church again.

Romeo13 on December 10, 2006 at 4:07 PM

Romeo13.. I don’t blame you. That was a slap in the face. Im sorry for your loss. I’m singing it while Im reading..for your Dad.

GoodBoy on December 10, 2006 at 4:12 PM

For Romeos dad. (Sorry, I hit the reply button too early in the last post)

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
with the cross of Jesus going on before.
Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;
forward into battle see his banners go!
Refrain:
Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
with the cross of Jesus going on before.

2. At the sign of triumph Satan’s host doth flee;
on then, Christian soldiers, on to victory!
Hell’s foundations quiver at the shout of praise;
brothers, lift your voices, loud your anthems raise.
(Refrain)

3. Like a mighty army moves the church of God;
brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod.
We are not divided, all one body we,
one in hope and doctrine, one in charity.
(Refrain)

4. Crowns and thrones may perish, kingdoms rise and wane,
but the church of Jesus constant will remain.
Gates of hell can never gainst that church prevail;
we have Christ’s own promise, and that cannot fail.
(Refrain)

5. Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng,
blend with ours your voices in the triumph song.
Glory, laud, and honor unto Christ the King,
this through countless ages men and angels sing.
(Refrain)

GoodBoy on December 10, 2006 at 4:15 PM

Romeo13, I know exactly what you mean. I refuse to go back to the Methodist Church for that very reason too.

Buzzy on December 10, 2006 at 4:20 PM

Yes. What the world needs is a little Jesus who kicks some ass. True dat!

lorien1973 on December 10, 2006 at 4:34 PM

(typo…sorry, try this again)
Real men praying:

JustTruth101 on December 10, 2006 at 4:36 PM

Hey Romeo 13 sorry for your loss. I think your former church got it all wrong. The hymn in question is totally a metaphore in that it is spiritual warfare being encouraged, like in the Salvation Army. It is an uplifting composition with alot of meaning for me . I served some time in prison in Florida and joined the choir at the little chapel there. We sang that hymn proudly. The preacher was old school baptist, and brought in great music ministries to minister to us sinners. I would like to add that was in 1978, and I have since seen the light and have become a productive member of society and currently own a small business with a few employees..

sonnyspats1 on December 10, 2006 at 4:49 PM

So, according to the Methodist Church, fighting the Nazis during WW2 was a greater wrong then the systematic and very successful genocide of the Jews, Poles, and Gypsies???

If I understand it correctly, the Presbyterian chruch is divesting (or has divested) all investments with companies that are Israeli.

Not only was fighting against Nazi’s bad, but so is defending yourself against terrorists.

(For the record, I’m a former Methodist and former Presbyterian)

Bob Owens on December 10, 2006 at 5:32 PM

So, who’s going to defend the Presbyterians and Methodists when the islamofacists come for them?

EF on December 10, 2006 at 6:13 PM

We don’t want to hold hands with another man. Get over it.

Gregor on December 10, 2006 at 6:20 PM

I certainly don’t go looking for opportunities to hug another man either, but I’m not bothered by it when it happens. I’m confident in my sexuality and manhood, and it doesn’t occur to me that there is something unnatural in the act. I see plenty of soldiers hugging each other. Athletes go even further than that with the whole butt-slapping thing. I think those who are bothered by these things might really need to check themselves. I don’t know that word “homophobic” applies to this in a general sense, but no doubt there’s definitely something there with those who aren’t more secure about themselves.

thedecider on December 10, 2006 at 6:28 PM

We don’t want to hold hands with another man. Get over it.

Me thinks he doth protest too much…

Im very confident in my sexuality. Lighten up Gregor.. it will be ok.. now ya wanna kiss and make up?

GoodBoy on December 10, 2006 at 6:43 PM

I think I might be tempted to join a church full of butt-slappers. At some point in the service, everyone is required to turn to their neighbor and slap the hell out of their butts. lol!

I can do better than that..I’ve been going to this church since I was born in 62. Several of my friends have too. They truly are like my brothers and sisters. Try going up to the choir loft getting ready to sing and gittin pinched on the hiney.. plays heck with your concentration.

GoodBoy on December 10, 2006 at 6:51 PM

Correct diagnosis of the problem, however not the best solution.

JVelez on December 10, 2006 at 7:30 PM

Soothsayer on December 10, 2006 at 7:37 PM

Great points, Soothsayer. Admittedly, not a normal response to one of your posts. However, there’s this:

There is only ONE method of salvaton. Water Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ…

Salvation is not earned through one’s action. Salvation is obtained through belief in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. To say that one must be baptized to be saved implies that we can earn salvation through works. As the bible states, salvation is the gift of God - not of works, lest any man should boast. The thief on the cross next to Jesus was not baptized, but Jesus told him he would be with Him in paradise.

thedecider on December 10, 2006 at 7:54 PM

He’s right. as John Eldridge points out in Wild at Heart, men were not made for the four-walls church experience. Women are stimulated by what they hear- men by what they see. Christian men are supposed to be out there demonstrating the awesome power of God.

Valiant on December 10, 2006 at 9:07 PM

Salvation is not earned through one’s action. Salvation is obtained through belief in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. To say that one must be baptized to be saved implies that we can earn salvation through works. As the bible states, salvation is the gift of God - not of works, lest any man should boast. The thief on the cross next to Jesus was not baptized, but Jesus told him he would be with Him in paradise.

thedecider

Obeying Jesus is not a “work” anyone is relying on for their salvation. When the thief died, Jesus hadn’t commanded it yet.

I like when Stine said something to the effect of “I have a feminine side, I’m married to her.” I’ll take a real Godly man over a wussified man any day.

jjjen on December 10, 2006 at 10:01 PM

Salvation is not earned through one’s action. Salvation is obtained through belief in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. To say that one must be baptized to be saved implies that we can earn salvation through works. As the bible states, salvation is the gift of God - not of works, lest any man should boast. The thief on the cross next to Jesus was not baptized, but Jesus told him he would be with Him in paradise.
thedecider on December 10, 2006 at 7:54 PM

The Lord is the Lord he is free to save whom he choses and in what manner, nevertheless there remain “rules” for the rest of us or else you could just throw out your bible and say “we’ll all rely on grace”, but that as I’m sure you know, would be silly. Christ DID give explicit instructions on what constituted salvation and how it should be achieved, in those instructions he is quite clear that those who do NOT follow them, will perish, saving some special dispensation such as defending Him while on a cross next to Him.

When Nicodemus wondered of such things, the Lord of All was quite clear..

John 3:1-7 KJV verse 8 is from the NIV for clarification.
1. There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2. The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?

5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (These are not mere “suggestions” they are definitive statements!)

6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. ( this is so you know it’s a two-fold process, WATER then SPIRIT)

7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8. The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

I copied verse 8 from the NIV because the reading comprehension in the U.S. is so poor that most churches don’t understand what “listeth” is and so forth. You’ll notice that Christ says that there is an UNIDENTIFIABLE SOUND that accompanies the newbirth of EVERYONE BORN OF THE SPIRIT. Sadly, I’ve even met some “Christians” who thought speaking in tongues was “evil”. Most churches don’t teach this but Jesus nevertheless said it. As I’m sure you know scriptures need “2 or 3″ witnesses, or companion scriptures before a point of “doctrine” is established so did Jesus echo similar sentiments elsewhere? You betcha…

Mark 16:15-20 KJV

15. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. ( now why do you think he said “AND” is Baptized, if he didn’t mean just that? And we know that when HE says “baptized” he means of water AND spirit (Acts 1:4-8)

17. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (Hmmmm so SIGNS FOLLOW YOUR BELIEF it’s not just an empty one way street!)

18. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

19. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Notice it ends with the Lord working with them and “confirming the word with signs following”, sadly this is no longer the case in 95% of so called “Christian” churches. No, my friend the Lord is quite able to make and “exception” of whomever he chooses, for instance when Lot was saved it was not done without the prescient knowledge that Lot would commit incest with his daughters! That doesn’t make incest NOT a crime though! Rules apply my friend. Rules of what the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is, what it should do for you, how you know you have it, were all laid out long before you or I arrived on the scene. When Jesus says you have to believe AND be baptized in both water and SPIRIT, it would behoove thee to find out what that was and do it. Or else you end up in a great swelling church with lots of money and nobody getting healed. You have no sign, no miracles, just money. Kaiser Sozhe said that the “greatest trick the devil ever pulled was getting the world to believe he no longer existed”, I would disagree. I think the greatest trick he ever pulled was getting 95% of “Christians” to believe they are “Saved” when they are not. Most churches teach that you have the Holy SPirit as a matter of belief, like Prego, “it’s in there”! You have no proof that you got it and it’s not necessary to speak in tongues to receive it, they teach that all you have to do is believe right? Well if they are true and I am false, there shouldn’t be any scriptures in the Bible concerning people who DID BELIEVE but nevertheless, DID NOT HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT, right? Well there are,..plenty.

12. But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. (These “believers” were baptized correctly by an Apostle, not in the false manner of the Catholic church and it’s offshoots, i.e in the “Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost”, they were baptized by an APOSTLE in the name of Jesus Christ! So under the doctrine of most churches, they now “have the Holy Spirit”, like it’s a mindset or something, right?)

13. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. ( Simon the witch also BELIEVED in Jesus and he was ALSO baptized, so according to Falwell and co. he’s got the Holy Spirit too, right?)

14. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: (By this we know that the “belief” of the Samarians was REAL, not false, that’s why in the midst of the churches greatest persecution, they risked sending the first Apostle called and the Lords half brother, to help the Samarians. But wait a minute why would they need help? They had the faith to change their lives and get baptized correctly right? So, what could be left?)

15. Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (But wait a sec, I thought they had it through faith and belief? Newsflash: it doesn’t come by faith OR belief necessarily it comes through REPENTANCE, Acts 2:38 first word outta Peter’s mouth)

16 .(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Now you see that they believed AND were baptized but that wasn’t ENOUGH, something was missing…..

17.Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, ( By the time you get to this part of the book of Acts you’ve already had umpteen examples of people receiving the Holy Ghost evidenced by them speaking in tongues, so it doesn’t repeat that here but you’ll notice that SIMON had evidence that THEY HAD IT AND HE DIDN’T. It will mention people being borne and telling you that they “spoke” when that is relevant like Acts 10:44-48 when the FIRST gentiles receive it. It’s relevant there because the Jews didn’t want to believe that the gentiles had been “saved” the same way that they were, until Peter prove this to them in the 11th and 15th chapters of Acts!)

19. Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. ( Again, they ALL believed, the ALL were baptized in Jesus’ name, but Simon was able to know that others had the H.G and he didn’t)

To those that hold that no “proof of salvation’ is necessary, I would submit this.. when Paul encountered those disciples on the road to Ephesus, the first thing out of his mouth was a question about whether they had received the Holy Spirit since the time they had come to believe. When they answered in the negative Paul didn’t say, “hey it’s ok as long as you “believe”. He asked them how they were baptized and when they gave him the WRONG answer he didn’t say,” It’s ok it’s all about faith anyway”. He CHANGED THEIR BAPTISM TO THE CORRECT ONE and he tarried with them until they received the Holy Ghost properly….you do the math.

1. And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2. He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. (Now why on earth would Paul ask them this is the only possible answer was yes? Obviously the churches of today are mostly wrong…not Paul)

3. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.( Why was this important to Paul? Why was it important enough to detour his journey of establishing the Ephesian church?)

4. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. ( he’s going to change their baptism)

5. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. ( Not three empty titles, the power is in the NAME Acts 4:12 and NO OTHER NAME!)

6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (So these “believers” had to be re-baptized correctly, and they had not yet received the Holy Ghost and again, when they did, they evidenced glossalalia)

And finally, if most of the churches of today are right Paul wouldn’t have been able to ask believers, “Have you received the Holy Ghost, SINCE you believed?” He also wouldn’t have been able to address a church FULL of believers and say this….

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

How could he tell a church full of believers that if any of them did not have the Holy Ghost, they didn’t belong to Jesus, unless there was some objective evidence of said Spirit? Math time.

Soothsayer on December 10, 2006 at 10:31 PM

People need to stop “studying” the Bible (it’s not THAT complicated) and get out and just do some good.

All this “studying” is just avoidance of doing.

Who cares what Ezekiel or Job did?

Do something yourself now.

Visit the imprisoned. Clothe the threadbare. Feed the hungry. Donate shelter to the homeless. Pay someone’s medical bill. Repair a mobile home’s heater for some old lady before her poinsettia freezes.

It’s nice to have a social network for schmoozing in order to surreptitiously improve you business connections in the community (and get free daycare), but all this cozy immersion in the (startlingly simple) tenets while eluding the hard practice is what makes most outside of the churches think of what goes on inside as cushy neo-Pharisee-ism.

“When you pray, do it in private.” as somebody said.

My church is the Universe, so I’m never anywhere but.

(Why you would want to close off your senses from the very “living garment of Creation” inside a man-made box in order to “worship” the one who made what you are thus avoiding appreciating never made sense to me. Maybe it was for the hymn acoustics?)

profitsbeard on December 10, 2006 at 10:59 PM

Obeying Jesus is not a “work” anyone is relying on for their salvation. When the thief died, Jesus hadn’t commanded it yet. jjjen on December 10, 2006 at 10:01 PM

Yeah…really don’t know what this is supposed to mean.

thedecider on December 10, 2006 at 11:55 PM

Jesus is a hoss. It’s hard for many men to understand that when Jesus’s main message is peace and love, but I guess part of one’s growing understanding of Christianity is realizing that Jesus is a hoss even without slaughtering all his enemies like Muhammad.

frankj on December 11, 2006 at 12:52 AM

I will not dismiss the other things you mention (gifts of the Holy Spirit, etc…) as those are critical to christian life and living - but not for obtaining salvation.
thedecider on December 10, 2006 at 11:20 PM

You couldn’t be more wrong if you were trying to be. You say that the Holy Spirit is “critical to Christian life and living–but not for obtaining salvation”. That my friend is blasphemy. What was Christs purpose of dying on the cross if not to shed forth his SPIRIT? Since he prophesied it to his Apostles as being necessary how can you say it isn’t?

John 14:15-18

15. If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;(surely you know that the Comforter is the Holy Ghost, right?)

17. Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (this is a prophecy there is no optional part here! notice that Jesus says “shall” be in you, this lets you know that the Apostles who possessed the power to raise the dead Matt 10:8, did NOT YET HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT! and that they NEEDED IT)

18. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. ( Here the Lord lets them know that HE is that Spirit!)

Now here you have the Lord prophecying to His followers that they WILL BE FILLED WITH HIS SPIRIT and you say it’s not “necessary to obtain salvation”? Would BELONGING TO JESUS be necessary for salvation in your opinion? Of course it would right? I mean, you would have to BE CHRIST’S in order to be SAVED BY CHRIST RIGHT?

ROMANS 8:9 NIV
9. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

Well, the Bible would disagree with you my friend, the Bible says that if you don’t have the HOLY SPIRIT…..YOU DON’T BELONG TO JESUS. How then, could you be saved? There is a way that seemeth right to a man but the end thereof are the ways of death… Lean not to YOUR OWN understanding, Jesus gave you a road map, follow it! And just so that the devil or one of his earthly minions doesn’t try to confuse you by implying that there is some difference between the SPIRIT OF CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT, I offer this….

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Obeying Jesus is not a “work” anyone is relying on for their salvation. When the thief died, Jesus hadn’t commanded it yet. jjjen on December 10, 2006 at 10:01 PM

Yeah…really don’t know what this is supposed to mean.

thedecider on December 10, 2006 at 11:55 PM

You wrote…

To say that one must be baptized to be saved implies that we can earn salvation through works.

You are contradicting the very words of JESUS HIMSELF so I guess you should read them…

Mrk 16
16. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Now Jesus clearly said that you had to do TWO THINGS to be saved, you in your ignorance claim that there are no prerequisites, repent. He said that you had to BELIEVE and He said that you had to BE BAPTIZED and we know that’s of the water and of the Spirit because he ALSO said that! JOHN 3:1-8

The lady was telling you that you are wrongly assessing that obediance to the word is a “work”, like people who think “Feeding the poor” or “being good’ will get them to heaven. If Jesus tells you to do something that cannot be considered a “work” since “works” are separate from a COMMANDMENT OF JESUS CHRIST. Or did you think there were just TEN commandments? How Catholic! And how wrong. Anything out of the mouth of Jesus which says, YOU SHALL, YOU MUST, OR YOU’D BETTER (LOL) is a COMMANDMENT! You’re “flying blind” on a lot of accounts there my friend, where the bible says “whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” you think that’s a mere “acknowledgement” of Jesus? When it speaks of these prophecies, it is quoting the O.T. like in Romans 10:9 this is often misused by churches to proclaim exactly what you did, that there is no independant proof of salvation but alas, you are wrong. None of the Bible can be used to discount the words of Christ, that would be ridiculous! If Jesus said that you better be borne again, that settles it bub! Jesus spent the entire 14th chapter of John telling you what it would take for you to “call on His name”, There is a record. This is NOT OPEN for debate, sorry. The entire book of Acts chronicles the foundation of the church and includes precise steps that one must take in order to be saved. Above all you need an answer from Jesus, that’s why you spoke in tongues, that was your answer because you didn’t do it, the Lord did. That was the proof that your salvation was real!! How is it that you do not appreciate the gift that lies within you?

God bless you, I hope you come to realize exactly who you are! You above and beyond all of the others that post here know beyond doubt that Jesus is God and God is real, how precious a thing in a world adrift in doubt! When Jesus says you must be baptized in water, it’s to identify with his burial

Rom 6;3-5

3.Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

That’s why the Biblical record is not the misunderstood scripture in Matt 28 but rather a fully understood affirmation that Jesus is the Father and the Son and the Holy GHost.

8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. ( this is what happened to the Catholic Church that changed the baptism and changed what it meant to receive the Holy Ghost. And lied to the world about some “TRINITY” which doesn’t exist in scripture!)
9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (Because Jesus is God bub, the whole shebang wrapped in a body of clay!)

You can’t take a “GENERAL SCRIPTURE” like “God is Love” or “the time shall come when whosoever calleth upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” and think that applies to a specific situation! That would mean that since “God Is Love” there’s nobody going to hell, right? But what about all the scriptures that tell you about the people burning in hell? Clearly, a general statement or sentiment is not meant to override specific instructions for specific situations! When Jesus said that you “MUST BE BORN AGAIN” you see wiggle room there? Even when he says that without being born again, you cannot see the kingdom of God? That my friend is sheer lunacy. Jesus told Nicodemus a man that was coming to the LORD HIMSELF in supplication the exact OPPOSITE and by the way NICODEMUS WAS CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD! In a way that no Christian today can! He left his place of comfort and sought out the Lord at the risk of his own life! Once he found Jesus what do you think he was talking about? He was asking what he had to do to be saved! AND HE WAS CALLING ON THE NAME OF JESUS WHEN HE DID IT~! JOHN 3:1-8 He said, “Rabbi we know that thou art a teacher sent from God for no man can do these miracles that thou doest unless God is with him”

Now, did Jesus say, “upon the confession of your faith, you clearly know who I am and you’re fine”? No friend, he doesn’t say that , in fact there can’t be a more graphic example of someone DOING what churches today say will save him, namely, “Calling on the Name of the Lord” and having him be told BY THE LORD, that there is still work for you to do!!! You MUST be borne again~! The problem with a lot of teachers is that they are basically “reading other peoples mail” and that’s where they run aground. The Epistles or LETTERS from Romans to Revelation are written to saved, baptized and Holy Ghost filled Churches…PERIOD. There is nothing in there concerning HOW ONE MUST BE SAVED. That’s why it’s dangerous to go to books written to people who had long since done the first works, like Baptism and tarrying for the Holy Ghost, to find out how that all works. I don’t think you could read the manual for a NASCAR racer and have them tell you that the KEY TURNS THE CAR ON! That would be in a beginners manual. It wouldn’t even be in the gospels since much of what needed to happen, Christs acension and subsequent releasing of the Holy Spirit, wouldn’t happen for years to come! 3 and a half to be exact. Although all of these things are prophesied in the Gospels the SPECIFIC instructions are contained in the BOOK OF ACTS. After the Resurrection, and right before the “Ascension”, Jesus gave his Apostles SPECIFIC instructions on how to form his Church! That was all the stuff I copied from Mark 16 about “he who is believes and is baptized shall be saved”. What do you think all those words are? They are the final instuctions for the formation of the church! If you read the Book of Acts you will see the understanding that people had to be baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST and that they had to have evidence just like the Apostles when they receive the Holy Spirit, ALL OVER THE WHOLE BOOK OF ACTS FROM BEGINNING TO END. You cannot discount what is contained here since it’s the only book that deals SPECIFICALLY with the mechanism of the new birth! Check it out why dont’cha and as the young folks say…”holler back”!

Soothsayer on December 11, 2006 at 1:19 AM

Dude, when GodMen makes it to my town, I am there.

ScottMcC on December 11, 2006 at 2:02 AM

Soothsayer,

email me when you get the chance.

-T

The Therapist on December 11, 2006 at 2:34 AM

I certainly don’t go looking for opportunities to hug another man either, but I’m not bothered by it when it happens. I’m confident in my sexuality and manhood, and it doesn’t occur to me that there is something unnatural in the act. I see plenty of soldiers hugging each other.

I think those who are bothered by these things might really need to check themselves. I don’t know that word “homophobic” applies to this in a general sense, but no doubt there’s definitely something there with those who aren’t more secure about themselves.

thedecider on December 10, 2006 at 6:28 PM

Me thinks he doth protest too much…

Im very confident in my sexuality.

GoodBoy on December 10, 2006 at 6:51 PM

Let me guess. Log cabin Republicans? ROFL!

First off, I didn’t say anything about soldiers hugging. I have absolutely no problem hugging a good friend, or another man. “Hugging someone” is different from standing there holding someone’s hand.

Secondly, “most” men’s problem holding another man’s hand is not because they are worried that someone will think they are gay. They have a problem with it because it just feels creepy. There’s just no reason for it. The man standing next to you in church (if a man) does not suddenly get a rush of “feel good” when the person next to him decides to grab and hold his hand.

The old … “you must be gay if you have a problem with touching men” trick is usually used by homosexuals to deflect their own self hate. You go right ahead being comfortable with that. Like Stine says … “we don’t have to apologize for being guys.”

“Thank God for my testosterone.”

Gregor on December 11, 2006 at 4:37 AM

Man.
On a stage.
Flashing lights.
Microphone.
Butterfly collar.

…..Bay City Rollers on a Crucifix.

Black Adam on December 11, 2006 at 6:00 AM

I don’t think you could read the manual for a NASCAR racer and have them tell you that the KEY TURNS THE CAR ON! That would be in a beginners manual.

Blasphemy!!!

hillbillyjim on December 11, 2006 at 8:10 AM

I love the part where Stine said talked about the Jesus who “kicked over tables and called Pharisees a generation of vipers.” That’s the Jesus we don’t hear about anymore. We get the mushy-squishy, feel-good, Joel Osteen version of Jesus who’s just kinda their to give us a pat on the back, and sing Cumbaya with us. Then, we get the gospel according to Kenneth Copeland, that says that Christ suffered, was beaten, mocked, and crucified so you could drive a Benz!!! (sarcasm off).

When the true Jesus returns, He won’t be driving a Toyota Prius, sipping a Starbucks latte. He’s going to return on a horse, with a sword in His hand.

BigOrangeAxe on December 11, 2006 at 8:41 AM

As a legitimate American, I say a carefully worded prayer just before I throttle every liberal fraud, lying punk, and whining socialist scumbag.

It is easier to gain forgiveness than permission.

So sayeth many wise and respected men.

Spider Dan on December 11, 2006 at 9:56 AM

Obeying Jesus is not a “work” anyone is relying on for their salvation. When the thief died, Jesus hadn’t commanded it yet. jjjen on December 10, 2006 at 10:01 PM

Yeah…really don’t know what this is supposed to mean.

thedecider on December 10, 2006 at 11:55 PM

It drives me nuts when Christians yap about what isn’t “necessary”. Jesus commanded it, so do it! How many baby Christians do you confuse by constantly saying “this isn’t necessary”? I was actually at a baptism of several adults, and one of the leaders spoke about 30 minutes about how Baptism was basically useless and it didn’t “need” to be done. Grrr!

jjjen on December 11, 2006 at 10:21 AM

Wild at Heart isn’t biblical.

Read.

JamesVersusEveryone on December 10, 2006 at 10:26 PM

Wild At Heart rocks! It would probably be more accurate to say “wild at heart doesn’t follow my theology”.

jjjen on December 11, 2006 at 10:37 AM

Afraid to be a little sub-serviant? Afraid to follow and serve? Not comfortable with women in church?

Interesting. Is there another video link somewhere? I can’t find him saying any of this on the video posted. Do we have to make up false statements to prove a point?

Gregor on December 11, 2006 at 11:00 AM

When a pastor asks to hold hands… you are serving the church at this point,

Uhhh, yeah right.

“Sorry Joe, no more brewskis for me tonight, I’ve got to get up early and hold hands with a bunch of old ladies and sing ‘Jesus is my Lover’”

I’ll take “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” any day. At least Soothsayer has that part right.

pedestrian on December 11, 2006 at 12:03 PM

Let me see if I follow Soothsayer’s theology properly. If I were to wash up on a deserted island somewhere with only a Bible, I couldn’t possibly get saved because no one was around to baptize me??? Or I could hope that God would bend the rules for me like the thief on the cross??? Can a mute not be saved??? You’re majoring on the minors, SS. Go back and reexamine acts 2:41 (no tongue-speakers).

jdpaz on December 11, 2006 at 12:44 PM

We’ve got a former Seabee in our church who heads up church/school/camp building programs all over the place. We serve God with pneumatic nail guns. Ruff!

We also hold hands in church a little. Not so keen on that.

jdpaz on December 11, 2006 at 12:53 PM

Soothsayer, suppose I’m in the middle of the Sahara and have just heard the gospel. I believe it whole-heartedly and put my faith in Christ’s finished work (remember, “It is finished”, nothing extra needed by me). But, alas, there’s no water for 100 miles. I die without being baptized. What’s my fate? Alternatively, suppose I was able to survive scorching heat, roving bands of murderous desert baddies, and sandstorms to make it that 100 miles and am baptized by someone properly. Would that herculean effort on my part be the difference in whether I was saved?
Does Romans 10 say anywhere, “how shall they be saved without some water?” Don’t dismiss Paul’s letters, they have plenty to say regarding salvation even though they’re addressed to saved people.

jdpaz on December 11, 2006 at 1:09 PM

Thought about this quite a bit over the last day… and I’ve come to the conclusion that this is a symptom, not a cause.

Fact is that AMERICAN society has been wussified… and the churches are just following suit.

When was the last time America celebrated a military Hero? WWII???

How often, do we as men, bite our toungues and NOT say what we feel and think?? Because it would NOT be politicaly correct? or even worse, not be “sensitive”?

Hmmm… I’ve been to the Holy Land… walked the mile… seen the poverty there… and now its not safe for Christians to go to Bethlehem….

Maybe it is about time for a New Crusade.

Anyone else up for the rebuilding of the Templers???

Romeo13 on December 11, 2006 at 1:36 PM

Since when was holding another man’s hand the litmus test for being “comfortable with one’s sexuality?” It isn’t in our culture to hold a man’s hand after the age of say, four. Please stop shoving your metrosexuality, ahem, down our throats.

spmat on December 11, 2006 at 2:59 PM

Self-conscious affectations of masculinity always leave me cold

Huh?

One thing I’ll say for Brad Stine, he isn’t making up any excuses for being a Christian man. Be strong.

Timber Wolf on December 11, 2006 at 4:09 PM

Gregor, timing is everything, when you take a shot at someone, make sure they are not posting a “fun post” rather than a serious one. Stine is a comedian, he can handle it.

BTW, are you the only one that did not understand my tongue in cheek analogy?

You have probably spent the rest of the day looking to refute this bible quote. Bonhoffer did a whole seriies of commentary on this topic alone.

I love that quote from the bible; and Jesus says “be a mans man, and cast the women asunder”. 2nd delusions,verse 6

Gregor, once again lost in the woods…

right2bright on December 11, 2006 at 5:11 PM

right2bright …

What world are you living in? Are you confusing me with someone else now?

I made no mention of your “made up” Bible quote and the rest of your post was not “tongue in cheek.” The entire post however, was indeed made up … as seems to be the case with everything you write. Now you’re making up delusions of what you “think” I might be doing all day.

Once in a while … make some sort of attempt at writing a response based on actual reality. It’s much more rewarding.

Otherwise, it might be better that you change your ScreenID to “not2bright.”

Gregor on December 11, 2006 at 5:28 PM

So what it comes down to is; Are you going to lead your Children in God’s teaching or not?

What are you gonna do Men, keep making up excuses or Serve the Lord?

GoodBoy on December 11, 2006 at 5:22 PM

Funny thing GoodBoy …

I don’t recall anywhere in the Bible instructing us that “holding another man’s hand” is required to “serve the Lord. Now you’re telling us that by not feeling comfortable holding another man’s hand … we’re refusing to serve the Lord. You seem to be one of those “know it all, God spoke to me, and only I know the way” type of Christians. I guess you’re right. We’re all burning in hell for not holding Roberto’s hand.

Gregor on December 11, 2006 at 5:35 PM

Gregor on December 11, 2006 at 5:28 PM
Had a hard time finding the quote and your angry at me? Relax Gregor. You are the only one upset at my tongue in cheek post about a comedian to a comedian. You are turning a fun post into an argument that is meaningless. Move on, I am.

right2bright on December 11, 2006 at 5:43 PM

What are you gonna do Men, keep making up excuses or Serve the Lord?
GoodBoy on December 11, 2006 at 5:22 PM

A good challenge at the end, don’t agree with everything you say, but a strong finish.

right2bright on December 11, 2006 at 5:49 PM

jatfla,

The whole 10 cups of coffee thing is Stine. I’ve seen him live at Promise Keepers. Bumped into him after his set. He’s wired like that. And while his delivery might not be to cup of joe, it doesn’t make his message any less true or relevant. Many of the Jewish leaders who heard and saw Christ overturn the tables of the money lenders didn’t appreciate His delivery either. Didn’t diminish the truth of the message though.

raz0r on December 11, 2006 at 5:55 PM