In which I trash the ISG report
posted at 10:55 am on December 7, 2006 by Bryan
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I don’t have much to add to what others have said in criticizing the Iraq Survey Group’s report. Much of my reaction can be summed up in short pithy words that I don’t ordinarily use. It’s a pile of this, it’s full of that, and the vaunted bipartisan Solons who met, achieved consensus and reported their solemn findings can do this or that to themselves.
But here’s a question: Since when did the United States or any country wage war by publishing its plans or suggested plans for all the world to see? Since when did the United States or any country let its enemies see internal deliberations and strategic pivots, and since when did we think our enemies shared our interests, either in one war theater or on a more broad strategic plane? Since when did we wage war by a geriatric committee of has-beens and shady Washington insiders? Since when has there been anything to talk about with the world’s two worst remaining terrorist states?
To me, the ISG report represents the end of the sole-superpower world. We’re not a superpower anymore, not if our so-called best and brightest think that this report represents anything useful, and not if we think it’s wise to put our war planning up to a body of old hands with no new ideas, and subject their findings to an international review.
I thought we voted against the international test when we rejected John Kerry? Guess not.
The ISG, with its “dialogue to consensus,” represents the worst about US policy deliberation and ultimately shows that we’re not serious about our own defense. It’s a dead end, and for the president to adopt its most ridiculous assumptions and vague suggestions means the end of his presidency, the end of the Bush Doctrine and the end of our pre-eminent place in the world.
We’re waging war in Iraq to defeat Islamic fascism, or Islamism or whatever -ism that our best and brightest can’t make themselves say today. You know, the people who attacked us on 9-11-01? Remember them? The best and brightest seem to have forgotten all that, and now want us to mitigate defeat in Iraq.
Well, how do you ask a man to be the last man to die so that we might mitigate defeat? You don’t. You honor his sacrifice by keeping your plans within your war council, by adjusting to the enemy’s strategies and turning his flaws against him, and using your strengths to win the war. Instead, we have let the enemy turn our worst flaws, our preening political class and our preening narcissism and our impatience and our gotcha politics, against us.
I’m sure the ISG avoided releasing their report today because they wanted to avoid associating their labors with the historic day of infamy. Well, they failed and have added to Dec 7 and 9-11 a third day of infamy, Dec 6, 2006. It’s the day America’s best and brightest failed our troops and our people. Of the three, yesterday may end up being the most significant over the longest slice of time. Our best and brightest gave our enemies present and future a reason to cheer, and to fight on against us. They know they can wear us down.
To me, there’s only one policy to pursue when you’re at war: victory. The ISG report should have contained some element of this:
You ask, what is our policy? I say it is to wage war by land, sea, and air. War with all our might and with all the strength God has given us, and to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark and lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy.
You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word. It is victory. Victory at all costs - Victory in spite of all terrors - Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival.
But it didn’t. The ISG report only used the word “victory” in the context of handing one to al Qaeda. And in its spirit, that’s what the ISG report has done.
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“I’ll quit my job and live outside Iraq.”, could there be a stronger condemnation from an Iraqi? A man who is working to protect his country from the increasing violence, would leave his beloved country if when the US Military pulls back.
E L Frederick (Sniper One) on December 7, 2006 at 11:01 AM
Bryan, I couldn’t agree more. You said it all.
SAM 1X on December 7, 2006 at 11:02 AM
My favorite quote. You pretty much summed up my feelings in this post.
vcferlita on December 7, 2006 at 11:02 AM
So your promoting “victory” at all costs?
You are confusing 9-11 with Iraq. They are not the same battles.
GregH on December 7, 2006 at 11:03 AM
Right around the time we put the media philosophers in charge of determining what reality is.
Pablo on December 7, 2006 at 11:05 AM
We’re not at war with Iraq. We’re at war in Iraq, and it is indeed the same war.
Pablo on December 7, 2006 at 11:06 AM
Since the explosion of the communication age, the proliferation of 24 hour news and bloggers; basically ever since the internet pretty much did away with the notion of secrets.
JaHerer22 on December 7, 2006 at 11:07 AM
If, by “costs”, you include nuclear annihilation, of course not. If you mean pulling out the stops via conventional warfare, then why not?
Most times, you can’t measure the cost of victory until you win.
BacaDog on December 7, 2006 at 11:12 AM
I can sum it up with the NYP’s front page today:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12072006/news/nationalnews/iraq_appease_squeeze_on_w__nationalnews_.htm
amerpundit on December 7, 2006 at 11:15 AM
Iran hasn’t removed that option off the table, as a matter of fact, they are moving full steam ahead towards it.
Why should we take it off the table until they remove Tel Aviv off the map?
GregH, your not even worth the time it would take to scrape you off my boots. Consider yourself ignored.
E L Frederick (Sniper One) on December 7, 2006 at 11:19 AM
GregH,
First of all why is victory in quotes? Do you not consider defeating the enemy, victory?
Second, this IS part of the same war. Since the beginning of the war in Iraq, we have killed hundreds of al Qaeda. Zarqawi was considered the “Prince of al Qaeda”.
BTW, check out some of what Dems said after 9/11. One of them was asked, if this situation continued, and ended up including military conflict with Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran and others if Dems would still back Bush, his answer was “yes”.
amerpundit on December 7, 2006 at 11:20 AM
Bryan -
Possibly the best post ever to be read on this site.
Thank you.
Gregor on December 7, 2006 at 11:22 AM
I just want all of the Senators and everybody else that’s got a “plan” that DOESN’T include Victory to list their names for me.
In 15-25 years, I want to b able to call them up and tell them with my grandson….See…I told you so!!!!!
I’m amazed that on Pearl Harbor day here, that if it wasn’t for the Atomic Bombs being dropped, WW II would have still gone on for many more months. I keep wondering if somebody would’ve said that we should’ve stopped!!!
This “Study Group” just kills me that they can/should dictate policy through a report when there’s ONLY a single man in charger, our Commander in Chief!!!!!
HarryStar on December 7, 2006 at 11:27 AM
This is a good thing in my opinion as being a superpower equates to being a target. Being a superpower has made us arrogant and complacent. It has made us believe we can do whatever we want in the world without consequence. It has led us into two wars in which we underestimated the enemy and the resistance to our presence; it has made us naively assume we are so powerful we can treat wars like they are no big deal. Being a superpower has made us a symbol for the West, a symbol for the things the jihadists hate, and hence and target.
JaHerer22 on December 7, 2006 at 11:29 AM
If people like yourself actually knew anything, JaH, you’d know that the US has been the world’s greatest force for stability and liberty over the past several decades. You’d also know that nature abhors a vaccuum. Our stepping aside doesn’t mean there won’t be a superpower in our place eventually. There will. But it won’t be us and won’t operate according to our values.
I hope you’re happy with that.
Bryan on December 7, 2006 at 11:33 AM
If Iraq is not a strong front in the same war why are the Islamo nutsos dancing in the street today proclaiming the ISG a great victory for them and all of Islam. And it ain’t just the ones in Iraq.
LakeRuins on December 7, 2006 at 11:33 AM
“This is a good thing in my opinion as being a superpower equates to being a target.”
If we were a superpower under sharia law, think we’d still be a target of these terrorist groups?
amerpundit on December 7, 2006 at 11:34 AM
Great post. How do we get our superpower status back? Withdraw our empire where it is not wanted and not in our interest, reinvigorate the manufacturing base in this country and get rid of the trade deficit, balance the bloated Federal budget and the bureaucrats with it? I fear the Republocrats have sold us down the river leading us to where we are today. There are no men in Washington.
Valiant on December 7, 2006 at 11:35 AM
I’m sure France, the Jews who were forced into concentration camps, Poland, the Berliners who had a wall between the east and west, and all of the other countries that our superpower role has helped, didn’t mind us being a superpower.
amerpundit on December 7, 2006 at 11:37 AM
It is incredible to me that so many in this country seem to want us to lose. They will not admit to any of the acheivemnets that we have made in the region and will certainly undo most if not all of the progress. Once the islamo-fascist are once proven correct in their assumption that the United States has no will to fight they will be further emboldened.
I would also address GregH on the “Victory at all costs” idiocy he spouts.
A much wiser person than me once said that to win a war requires much sacrifice in both people and treasure but to lose one costs everything. If you truely beleive that a huge and terrible price will not be paid by this country and her people as a result of a surrender and withdrawl in Iraq you are dangerously naive.
conservativecaveman on December 7, 2006 at 11:38 AM
Not saying to take it off of the table, E. L.. It’s the only deterrent to keep Iran from considering theirs as an option.
I was really just trying to get GregH to state what he considers “acceptable costs” to be. When do the costs of victory get to high for him?
BacaDog on December 7, 2006 at 11:38 AM
IMHO, the problem is that we aren’t ACTING like a superpower. We are acting like the geeky kid on the playground who is getting his @$$ handed to him by the Islamic bullies.
WHY? Because we aren’t taking the D-G gloves off. We are doing everything we can to play nice with these savages. We need to stop being so freaking nice to these camel fellators and return to the days of Patton where we we’re too busy kicking @$$ to take names!
E L Frederick (Sniper One) on December 7, 2006 at 11:39 AM
And NOT being a superpower equates to being a DOORMAT. I supposed you would prefer that?
It’s not “being a superpower” that has caused that. It’s liberals who feel “guilty” for being a superpower and are doing everything in their power to bring us down.
Huh? To believe that … you would have to ignore that fact that Islam’s wrath has no history of only targeting the rich or powerful. They target EVERYONE who does not follow their sick and perverted rules and beliefs. MOST terrorist attacks throughout history have targeted nations which are lowest on the power and financial scale.
Your comment is EXACTLY the reason we are in this mess. The belief that WE are somehow responsible for their anger, hatred, and evil.
Gregor on December 7, 2006 at 11:40 AM
“Withdraw our empire ”
The fact that you call our nation an empire makes me question your patriotism.
How about everyone who believes our nation is a horrible, wretched, empire, go talk to Karol over at Alarming News. Ask her what it was like to live in a soviet governmen. Or in a country where you go into the store and you don’t know if there will be food in it or not. Or perhaps go live in an African nation, where the government and dictators can change on a daily basis.
amerpundit on December 7, 2006 at 11:41 AM
I couldn’t be prouder than to be what they hate. I’ll wear that as a badge of honor, and sleep well at night because of it.
Pablo on December 7, 2006 at 11:41 AM
A reported for the Richmond Examiner one day asked General Robert E. Lee how the war was going. To which General Lee replied,
Dread Pirate Roberts VI on December 7, 2006 at 11:44 AM
Dear Mr Reagan,
That bright shining light on a hill you saw, it looks now like it was an oncoming train and it is just about to run us over.
LakeRuins on December 7, 2006 at 11:44 AM
Just across on Fox. Bush says he is charting a new direction for Iraq, and the ISG are a “Noble Goal”, but it is “Freedom vs. Terror”.
amerpundit on December 7, 2006 at 11:47 AM
Bravo. I couldn’t have said it better myself even had I ventured to try.
thepuke on December 7, 2006 at 11:48 AM
There, fixed it for ya!
fogw on December 7, 2006 at 11:48 AM
To answer your “Since when” questions . . .
Answer: Since our commander-in-chief seems content with an ongoing stalemate.
I voted for him in 2000. I was happy to do it. I voted again for him in 04 and held my nose doing it. He has invited this study because he has made little in the way of observable progress with our war strategy. “The generals on the ground say . . .” line needs to be retired. Maybe you need to change the generals on the ground if they aren’t accomplishing anything.
I’m sorry but our President seems oblivious and paralyzed. He really doesn’t seem like he knows what to do, so he does nothing. This attitude only invites the smartset in the media and the political elite who think they know everything and exactly what to do. This panel is full of diplomats who are trying to find a diplomatic solution to our war. We are past that. We need a military victory not a diplomatic one. Our enemies don’t understand or respect diplomacy. They fight to solve their problems and they fight to win. We don’t.
elle_k on December 7, 2006 at 11:51 AM
Great post, Bryan! Thank you.
JaHerer22 wrote:
Catch a clue: They’re not going to stop hating us. Ever. Or until we all convert or die. They’ve been hating western civilization for centuries–since long before the United States existed. They’re champion grudge-holders, and they think they are destined to rule the Earth. ALL of it. We’re just the biggest obstacle to go through in order to get what they want. If they can neutralize the United States, the rest is a piece of cake. Without us as a superpower, the next Dark Age would begin next week.
aero on December 7, 2006 at 11:54 AM
Well that explains why the jihadists went after Afghanistan and Somalia. Now those were REAL superpowers!
LakeRuins on December 7, 2006 at 11:56 AM
Yep and now the Somali’s are after Ethiopia… now there is a military to deal with! /sarcasm
E L Frederick (Sniper One) on December 7, 2006 at 11:59 AM
we all know that GregH & other liberals in this country are anti-american & does want the U.S. to lose the War On Terror so their islamic terrorist friends can thank them personally for giving up on the War Of Terror & GregH continues to prove that everytime. btw GregH, did you ever send a condolence card to the family of your deceased friend Zarqawi?
Starblazer on December 7, 2006 at 12:00 PM
Excellent post, Bryan. Thanks for saying what I’ve been thinking for the past couple of days.
Farmer_Joe on December 7, 2006 at 12:02 PM
How cany anyone take this report seriously? Since when is Sandra Day O’Connor considered an expert on military matters? Listening to her is like nails on a chalkboard.
elle_k on December 7, 2006 at 12:05 PM
That would be an accurate statement, but I don’t believe Bush is stupid. I believe he knows exactly what needs to be done to win this war … and he simply ignores it. Why? That’s going to be debated possibly forever, but it would be impossible to convince me that Bush is stupid.
The immigration and border security situation is another example of the same thing. Obvious answers being completely ignored by people with apparent intelligence.
We can blame the liberals for the media and the desire to lose this war … but lets not forget that up until now the decisions have been Bush’s. Bush has been a miserable failure on ALL levels. Just because we are conservatives … let’s not blindly pretend he’s done a great job.
In my honest opinion - even though I voted and supported him in both elections - I would now admit that Bush may be one of the worst Presidents this country has ever had. He’s failed us on every conservative issue, and he’s failed to accomplish a single thing.
For those who don’t agree … I’d be interested to hear which conservative issues you feel Bush has been successful with in his six-plus years. Remember that we’ve held the majority in both Houses for his entire term, and the new Houses have not even been sworn in yet. So to blame the last six years on Pelosi, Murtha, and Reid is not possible.
Gregor on December 7, 2006 at 12:05 PM
Bryan,
You are absolutely right - there is no substitute for victory.
Our “best and brightest” have proven by their words (printed and verbal) and actions that they are neither the best nor the brightest.
They are treasonous, pompous, cerebrally vacuous twits without a clue.
They have sold out our people, our nation, and most importantly, our warfighters - past and present.
They or their masters do not deserve to represent or to govern us.
We need a change before they sell out America totally!
Emmett J. on December 7, 2006 at 12:06 PM
Either we get busy and win, or we get busy and quit. But we can’t seem to do either one. Now we want to surrender, and we can’t even get that right.
Lawrence on December 7, 2006 at 12:07 PM
We’ve had enough RINO’s in the Senate where it might as well of been a Dem majority. The house has managed to pass some good legislation, like the original draft of the immigration bill.
However the Senate has been a thorn in the conservative side consistently.
I blame McCain and his Ilk.
E L Frederick (Sniper One) on December 7, 2006 at 12:09 PM
Welcome to War PC style 101. I suppose this is being taught at West Point these days. The left has to be tickled pink, they believe they’ve neutered another republican president and at the same time dealt a blow to their focus of hatred..the military. A U.S. defeat always seems to bring a smile to an otherwise dour liberal face…..
ritethinker on December 7, 2006 at 12:12 PM
We should use satellite video images to locate all Islamonazis cheering and celebrating our concession right now. We can refer to them as “the enemy.” We can then do to them as we did to Zarquawi. Wash, rinse and repeat. Have another Iraq study group release more findings that we are going to accept defeat. Scan the satellite images to see who is cheering. We should do that over and over again until everybody stops cheering.
Zetterson on December 7, 2006 at 12:12 PM
Gregor,
Full agreement with your post. I, too voted and supported him in both elections and have come to the same conclusions that you have.
I support our warfighters but not those who make the decisions that get them needlessly killed and take away their tools so that they cannot do the job they were trained for, as politicians also did in another place not so very long ago.
Emmett J. on December 7, 2006 at 12:12 PM
True, but it hasn’t impacted Bush’s decisions. Give me an example of any of Bush’s plans for the war which have NOT been granted.
There ARE none. The Iraq failure is all Bush.
Gregor on December 7, 2006 at 12:13 PM
Perhaps the ISG and the government has been learning a bit too well from the French example.
Emmett J. on December 7, 2006 at 12:14 PM
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. :(
E L Frederick (Sniper One) on December 7, 2006 at 12:16 PM
Another war lost on the home front by the gutless American Sheeple.
The liberals wanted to turn Iraq into another Vietnam and it looks like they’ve done it. I hope “Vietnamization” works better now than it did in 1973.
I’d like to thank the ISG for boosting the morale of the Jihadis. Jane Fonda couldn’t have done a better job.
Note to our brave troops serving in Iraq: Keep your heads down next month.
irishsquid on December 7, 2006 at 12:22 PM
Will never be able to fight a war the way it need be done. Tommyrot!
Drtuddle on December 7, 2006 at 12:24 PM
Thanks Bryan, I knew you could come thru with some words that somewhat equate the disaster they call the ISG. Victory? They won’t even use the word because it MIGHT OFFEND SOMEONE!!!
Frickin chickensh*ts, they’re messin with our country, and it’s survival.
shooter on December 7, 2006 at 12:29 PM
Rick on December 7, 2006 at 12:33 PM
Interesting oped by Bryan. I read an interesting editorial at http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200612u/kaplan-iraq some find interesting.
“Iraq failure” keeps getting thrown around. I think this only adds fuel to the cut and run advocates fire. IMHO the failure has been in the PR department. Viet Nam saw us losing 20 troops a week for ten straight years. We carpet bombed the NV into the stone age and still left without meeting the objectives.
In this war we are losing 20 troops a month on average. Bush has said repeatedly we must win the peace as well. Indiscriminate killing of Iraqis is not the answer. Getting the Sadr militias under control is the first step. Making the Iranians back off is the next.
Again, IMHO Bush is not sending mixed signals about winning.
Two years ago when Bush was reelected there were so many people raving about how brilliant his campaign and strategy were… lots of confidence in him.
It seems that in light of the recent election too many people are looking for a few scapegoats to throw off the cliff to blame for the loss of the senate and house.
Call me a cynic but if this is the new dialogue we are headed toward an 08 election where someone like Ross Perot gets enough of the dissatisfied to vote for them and make the Democrat candidate, whomever he or she is a shoo-in.
Bradky on December 7, 2006 at 12:37 PM
Who the hell are you, or anybody else in here for that matter, to question the patriotism of anybody else? Who appointed you judge and jury of determinimg everybody else’s love of country? Drop your sanctimonious drivel and get over yourself.
Secondly, should we all just go along with what our leaders tell us in the spirit of patriotism? Since when did a skepticism of government equate to a lack of patriotism?
GregH on December 7, 2006 at 12:39 PM
…you might’ve missed the memo…it’s a spiffy new bent in geopolitical thinking called “concurrent surrender”.
While we’re fighting and pouring blood and treasure into an effort — any effort, but war is a prime example of this handy new political tool — we’ve got has-beens and never-was’s are undercutting, tripping up, and lending aid and comfort to the enemy. So, as we bring the body-bags of heroes back in the front, the nation’s being sold down the river out the back door.
This is seen in geopolitical circles as a cost and time saving measure. As the Democratic Party won’t let the US win any war anyway, we make an gesture effort — at a cost in lives, but with the eggs/omlet analogy in full effect — and bug-out before any actual aims are accomplished. This way, not *ONLY* will the nation be hobbled, preventing the US from establishing any sort of a nasty “hegemony”, but there’ll always be jobs for has-been and never-was political artifacts.
It’s a lose-lose.
I’m surprised that you’re surprised by any of this (if you were). Your *FIRST* clue that the “concurrent surrender” gambit was in play was the inclusion of Vernon Jordan, William Perry and Leon Panetta in the group. Leon Panetta, especially, is a scrofulous b*stard, whose very presence means that children have had their candy stolen and small dogs in the neighborhood have been violated. Perry, on the other hand, is a bad man indeed.
So, don’t lose heart. There’s a strategy, and all is going according to plan. We can expect the resumption of talks after the beginning of the year, and the resumption of homeland bombing and chemical attacks by next Christmas.
I only wonder which of the members of the study group will be singled out for consideration for next year’s Nobel Peace Prize. They usually give that trinket to those who betray America. These fellows all richly deserve it.
Puritan1648 on December 7, 2006 at 12:41 PM
Sorry, for some reason I lost the rest of my post. My point to JaHere is that victory and/or defeat in this ongoing struggle can only be determined by our will to stick it out - not by what the jihadists do or don’t do. The truth is, the American people (and for that matter, the world) were misled by the Dems, and nobody else. Everybody (with few exceptions) was on board, but the Dems folded like a cheap suit when the going got tough (even MSNBC was supporting the troops). The fact that you would even post what you did, JaHere, reitirates what you (and liberals in general) stand for - only fight against those that won’t come after you in a violent manner (a.k.a. conservatives), and put your head in the sand when there are others out there that are REALLY dangerous, and want to KILL you (and hope they just go away). Something to be really proud of, JaHere - keep that head in the sand.
Rick on December 7, 2006 at 12:44 PM
…no…the whole “national defense” thing was shelved in favor of “concurrrent surrender”. Keep up with the times.
Heavens! There are pictures of Britney Spear’ “happy place” on the Internet! You want us to worry about a war?
Next!
Puritan1648 on December 7, 2006 at 12:46 PM
…I had *COMPLETELY* missed that coincidence. It’s rich with irony.
You know, Bryan…the true test of a writer’s ability is when his readers can say “boy, I wish I’d've said that”, or “I wish that I’d've noticed that”, or “I wish that I’d've put it that way”…or the ever-popular “Consider that stolen”. Well, bubba…you’re as effective a writer as folks are gonna see ’round abouts. Steyn may have you beat…but who beats Steyn? Good company.
…that’s just my opinion…but I back it to the hilt.
Puritan1648 on December 7, 2006 at 12:50 PM
…Greg…extract your head from your…ideology…for a second. It *IS* very much, and always *HAS BEEN* the *EXACT* same war. Period. End of story. Full stop. Do not pass “GO”.
Now…get the KY out, reinsert your head, and go back to sleep. Let the adults plan the party in peace.
Damnation…just like a chihuaua who had stupid-soup for breakfast…can’t we get that yappy little b*stard fixed?
Puritan1648 on December 7, 2006 at 12:53 PM
Doh! Why haven’t we thought of this sooner? U.S. isolationism! What a concept! That will fix all of the world’s problems. Good thinking JaHerer22.
History has a lot of lessons for us. I wish some people would start learning them.
irishsquid on December 7, 2006 at 12:58 PM
Who the hell are you, or anybody else in here for that matter, to question the patriotism of anybody else?
OMG! Everybody stop what you’re doing–GregH is right! I just looked up the definition of “patriotism,” and my dictionary says that patriotism is bending over, grabbing our ankles, and letting our enemies have and do whatever they want! Shut down this blog immediately! Everyone go join the Huffington Post and start spewing hatred for America immediately!
Thank you, GregH, for opening our eyes to what true patriotism is. We are forever indebted to you.
aero on December 7, 2006 at 1:02 PM
…no…*TRAITORS* “pretty much did away with the notion of secrets” by leaking them to the media, posting them on the Internet, etc. Used to be, they’d put ‘em in a soda can and leave it at a dead-drop in Lafayette Park…nowadays, they don’t have to go out and get rained on.
Make no mistake: the Internet is no more an excuse for revealing your nation’s secrets in time of war than is one’s ideological bent. “The Internet was there” wouldn’t've exonerated Benedict Arnold. Giving away defense secrets is a nasty, very personal affair…and reaction to it, both private and official, is and should be just as personal. Traitors are betraying *HOME*…and, in this case, are endangering the lives of those sons and daughters who’ve gone off to defend “HOME” — better any of them than *ANY* of their contemporaries marching safely at colleges the nation over.
Does one’s *INTENT* — I want the war to stop, I want peace to “break out”, I think that this war is wrong, I think that this war was started for the wrong reasons, I think that this war is unjust, (or the ever-popular) I think that this *COUNTRY* is unjust — mitigates treason? Is the death of Marine killed by an emboldened jihadi in Falluja mitigated by the fact that the leaker’s intentions were “pure”.
There are *ALL* different kinds of patriotism. There’s even patriotic dissent. There is *NO* sort of “patriotic treason” wherein the secrets — strategic, tactical or political — are revealed to enemy, either covertly or by revelation in the open source press.
But, I’d bet that you don’t agree…so, let me pronounce upon you the worst curse I know: may you live in the world you would yourself create.
Puritan1648 on December 7, 2006 at 1:02 PM
When used by the likes of you, liberal brain numbing guilt or ignorance that gets people killed. Millions of people have died because of people like you. Patriotism? You hate America and freedom and everything REQUIRED to stay free. Thats when.
.
Go away, find some other USA haters & freedom haters that think like yourself.
shooter on December 7, 2006 at 1:05 PM
…so — and I’m not for a minute disputing that being a superpower makes one a target — setting aside for a moment that being a superpower *ALSO* means that you have the means and treasure to project your power for *GOOD* in the world (tsunami relief, famine relief, AIDS treatment in Africa, coming to the assistance of assaulted allies), you’re premise that we’re better off withdrawing off of the world stage as a superpower solely on the basis that it’ll save us either having to defend ourselves so often, or that it’ll save us inconvenience.
Well…the one is cowardly (not suprisingly) and the other is either lazy or stupid or spoiled (and probably a melange of all three). We’ve raised a generation of housecats, ticked whenever they have to climb down from the windowsill to deal with actual problems.
It’s nice to hear that the housecats have been heard from.
** Immediate apologies to ACTUAL feline-Americans and their owner/companions for the comparison **
** We have cats…so, I take back the apology **
Puritan1648 on December 7, 2006 at 1:10 PM
…I blame the media, public schools and parents. We’ve raised a generation of losers. Victory makes ‘em itch.
No more “tug-o-war”…it’s now a “peace-pull”. No more dodgeball. No more competition. We raise losers by taking away the possiblity of *ANYONE* winning.
The thought of the responsibility that accompanies winning scares the dickens out of a certain demographic in this country. They like winning in the abstract — “my team is winning” — but not in concrete terms — “my country is winning”.
Losers.
Puritan1648 on December 7, 2006 at 1:15 PM
Being in Alabama, if we had a country full of rabid “USA Fans” like we have Alabama or Auburn fans, then not only would the war of been over by now, but we would of fired three Sec Def’s and a few Generals.
E L Frederick (Sniper One) on December 7, 2006 at 1:20 PM
Puritan 1648 - I totally agree with your previous posts. Way to go!
Doesn’t it seem, though, that collectively, Americans do not appreciate the efforts or sacrifices of our warfighters from the Founding Fathers to the present time.
It can be argued that the mass majority are mindless sheep who will not notice their missing liberty when it is totally taken away - as surely it is and has been for some time now been eroded.
It may be argued that the masses will not even care.
Is this where we should be?
I know for sure that this is NOT the America that I grew up with and expected to grow up, old, etc… in.
Treason is treason - Russert and Fonda (as well as most of the government and the ISG) are probably having massive Gorbasms right about now just thinking about all of the happiness to come in the great United Soviet Socialist Republic of States of their dreams.
I heard of a curse that states, “May you live in interesting times”.
Seems to me that our leaders have condemmed us to just that.
With that in mind -
What say we end the drama and award it as a joint prize to be shared with Jimmy Carter, Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Jane Fonda, Cindy Sheehan, Ted Turner, and others to be named?
Emmett J. on December 7, 2006 at 1:20 PM
Puritan1648
To be a good dhimmi, you need to start at an early age.
irishsquid on December 7, 2006 at 1:21 PM
Bryan, I love you. I read the whole thing and said, “that’s that.” Everybody seem share the conception that one walks into war and just walk out. Somebody has to concede before the war stops. If we walk out, they will follow till they concede or we concede and convert to Muslims.
This is one funny statement. I could not stop laughing.
Ouabam on December 7, 2006 at 1:22 PM
Bryan, shame on you for feeding the troll.
We’re Americans. That means we’re free. Which means we’re free to form our own opinions, including making judgements as to whether someone has anything useful to contribute, or if they are like you.
I invented a new word: traitriot. Someone who feels loyal to an America that would only exist after a supreme act of treason.
Oops, I did it myself.
/FeedTheTroll
urbancenturion on December 7, 2006 at 1:28 PM
Since when is Sandra Day O’Connor considered an expert on military matters? — elle_k
…oh…and how could I forget
to spew a little venom atSandra Day O’Connor?What is her achievement? For what shall she be remembered?
It isn’t studying law, even under the supposedly tough conditions under which she did it. I’m certain that other justices of that court could meet or top her in that department.
It isn’t for her time on any bench. She was sort of obstructionist in her last years at SCOTUS, but that’s only because she was seen in contrast to Scalia, etc.
It *CERTAINLY* isn’t for her shelf of geopolitical tomes written, years of military service, wars fought and won, or national and internal crises averted. She was an attorney, then a judge, then a has-been.
No…her achievement is being the first woman appointed to the Supreme Court. Then again, being appointed to the Supreme isn’t as special as she’s held up to be. There’ve been 110 justices at SCOTUS over the years, and she was only the first of two.
So…her great achievement is being born without a penis. Full stop.
Why wasn’t my wife appointed to the ISG, then.
My wife hasn’t ever had a penis that I’ve ever seen(unless you count mine, safe and secured in a jar in her vanity). She’s had 26 years of military service so far, been stationed overseas a few times (with me and without me after I left the service). She’s held security clearances, been places, done things, looked into faces, and had to answer tough questions.
She’s *AT LEAST* as qualified to have been at the ISG than
Ms.Justice O’Connor. I have not the slightest doubt that, had she been there, the document released would’ve been entirely a different kettle of fish.And, we could use the money.
Puritan1648 on December 7, 2006 at 1:29 PM
Good idea!
However, wouldn’t this also include quite a lot of those currently in government as well?
Just a thought.
Emmett J. on December 7, 2006 at 1:31 PM
That’s the way of things… old people always have the money and the power. Sadly, the World War II generation left us too soon. Now the Woodstock generation is starting to age into the next crop of “wise men” that will retain an iron grip on our political affairs for the next few decades.
Dave Shay on December 7, 2006 at 1:32 PM
…the Iraq failure started yesterday.
Prior to that, there had been missteps, mistakes, and oversights…but war is chaos. We’d been managing chaos fairly well up until yesterday, despite what the Leftists and the media have tried to convey.
…but, with the release of the execrable document of yesterday, failure was initiated.
…and Bush was the guy with the finger on the button. No mistakes.
Puritan1648 on December 7, 2006 at 1:32 PM
…you leave yourself open to questioning with your every contentious, Leftist boilerplate post.
I don’t question your patriotism. I don’t think you have any. I don’t think that you can love a country and agree with those who daily wound it anymore than you can love a child and daily slap him around.
Don’t question other people’s rights to question you. Ask for whom the bell tolls, bubba…it’s ringing off its pinions for theeeeeeee….
Puritan1648 on December 7, 2006 at 1:36 PM
Dave Shay said:
That’s true. And my generation is queued up to take over after the Boomers. But I fear that my generation will suffer the fate of Prince Charles. The Boomers will live on and on, sucking the nation’s coffers dry, and my generation will be skipped. It will fall to our children to clean up the mess created by their grandparents. If they can afford to from the poorhouse, that is.
aero on December 7, 2006 at 1:38 PM
Somebody send a copy of this story to Sen John “in a manner reminecent of Jenghis Khan” Kerry. Read it at your peril. It is full of bullying Marines, kicking in the doors of innocent Iraqis in the night, and the unspeakable torture we inflict on the people we meet. It is for all of these reasons that the ISG and liberals say we must get out of Iraq post haste.
Go ahead read it. I dare you.
LakeRuins on December 7, 2006 at 1:39 PM
About the same way Congressman Gerald Ford was considered an expert in bullet trajectory for the Warren Commission:
My wife would have been far more qualified than O’Connor, as well (and, yeah, the money would have been an added plus as well!)!
It all boils down to:
Ever notice that more mosques are being built in places where you would normally never see them - like Huntington, WV?
Perhaps that’s the Carter/ISG master plan - “peace without honor”, “Withdrawal without victory”, and Eternal Salvation through Conversion (to Islam)”
Nobel worthy, indeed!
Emmett J. on December 7, 2006 at 1:42 PM
GregH,
Who the hell am I? I’m an American. I’m someone who’s lost family members fighting for this country. I’m the person calling this country a democracy. Now, I’ll tell you who I’m not.
I’m NOT the one calling this country an empire. I’m NOT the one who is willing to surrender. I’m not the one who is about to give up on this country, on this “great experiment”. I’m not the one who only criticizes this country. And I’m certainly not the one who wants all of the rights this country offers, then hide my a** when some S.O.B. Islamic fascist, piece of ****, tries to take that all away from me. I’m not the one submitting. I’m not ready to get beheaded for not praying 5 times a day.
That’s who I am. That’s who I’m not.
amerpundit on December 7, 2006 at 1:44 PM
Wonderful post Bryan, my feelinigs to the letter, but may I remind everyone that we are still at war.
Just because the MSM and this panel of depends wearing, one last time in the spotlight has beens, and every single Democrat are posting our defeat and planning our funeral, it is NOT reality. No matter how hard they try to spin it, we are still engaged.
Maybe the good thing about this report (toilet paper) is that all of the restrictions that have hand-cuffed our soldiers will come to the light of day for everyone to see, and we can finally take them off.
I think we should start by taking a page from history from Black Jackk Pershing. Let’s ship over a couple thousand pigs. Every terrorists that is killed, bury them in a shallow grave, face down in the cavity of a guted pig. Set the pit on fire, and tell every last one of those Michael Foxtrots that this is their fate if they continue to fight. Keep it up, re-supplying pigs as needed, we have ample supply. Time to take the gloves of boys and girls, that’s how you achieve Victory!
PinkyBigglesworth on December 7, 2006 at 1:45 PM
Bryan, great post. I think GregH must have been one of the authors of this miserable study. It is so sad that our great country is diminishining before our eyes because of liberal fools that think like him in Congress, because of has beens like the fools on the Study group, and sadly because of the Bush administration that has failed to support conseratives values on everything from immigration, to medicare, to winning the damn war. What ever happened to winning by DESTROYING the enemy.
It is truly a sad day. Gregor, you are dead on, I too am so disappointed in our President.
Jonesy on December 7, 2006 at 1:49 PM
Gregor — to answer your question, which conservative issues GWB’s been good on?
Roberts and Allito (while pretending Harriet Miers didn’t happen) which is why I voted for him again primarily.
I don’t know if he is stupid. He seems stupid at times like the many occasions when he says “nucular”. On the immigration issue, I don’t think that is stupidity on his part. I think he sincerely has a different and firmly held belief in an amnesty, guest worker plan not unlike the WSJ and corporate America though it goes against his conservative base. He has shown an ability to think critically because he has read up on global warming and doesn’t buy the mainstream hysterical view.
If you believe press accounts of his leadership style as a delegator as opposed to a micromanager and as fiercely loyal maybe that would explain his paralysis toward Iraq. He might be reluctant to undermine generals or replace those that have stood by him. I blame the Democrats in Congress aided by spineless Republicans and media more than him for insisting we fight a PC war. Still, how he can tuck himself in to bed at 9 pm every night when we have our soldiers dying every day is beyond me. He should be losing sleep over this. He isn’t leading. He says he wants to win. I believe he does. Where is his blasted plan then?
elle_k on December 7, 2006 at 1:50 PM
Right on target! No mistake whatsoever.
Emmett J. on December 7, 2006 at 1:52 PM
If you aren’t a writer for a living, quit your day job. I would buy a subscription.
AZ_Redneck on December 7, 2006 at 1:52 PM
Bryan
excellent post.
Good comments.
My vote for “Best Riposte” goes to Pablo
rockhauler on December 7, 2006 at 1:53 PM
Yes, JaH, much better to be weak, and lick our masters’ boots. Slaves were never a target unless they got out of line; as long as they willingly bent over backwards, their masters allowed them to lick the crumbs from underneath the table. It was only when they dared to cross that invisible line that they were put back in their place.
Is that really the reasoning you use when ruminating on our foreign policy? Whether or not it’ll make someone mad? Too bad for King George that there weren’t more like you a couple of hundred years ago.
I can respect someone who brings forth reasoned and well-thought-out arguments for or against a particular issue. But because it’ll UPSET someone? Wow, I’ll bet your wife/husband LOVES that attitude; at least we know who rules the roost.
You disgust me to the very core of my being.
dalewalt on December 7, 2006 at 1:57 PM
They don’t want their daughters and sons turning out like those we portray in our movies and I don’t blame them. They are backwards enough to believe Hollywood and the homos represent all of America and that’s why they want to purge us from the world, and why we must fight to the death to survive. Sorry for the crassness but this report is causing a slow burn…
NTWR on December 7, 2006 at 2:00 PM
Wonderful, amerpundit, just wonderful!
dalewalt on December 7, 2006 at 2:01 PM
Thank You.
amerpundit on December 7, 2006 at 2:04 PM
To which GregH dribbled:
I would hereby like to nominate amerpundit as judge and jury of determining everybody else’s love of country. Seconds? (this is a democracy, after all… :-)
dalewalt on December 7, 2006 at 2:05 PM
…a very handy way of expressing the inexpressible…especially as I’m trying not to use those words anymore.
Consider it stolen.
Puritan1648 on December 7, 2006 at 2:14 PM
GregH
Since when did sabotage, obstruction, and betrayal of official national policy become patriotic?
rockhauler on December 7, 2006 at 2:16 PM
I think of it this way. In 1940 Germany was overrunning all of europe and all america wanted to do was sit out and hope for the best.
We are again America in a 1940 mindset. Half the nation wants to back a munich agreement that gives them “peace at any price”
The price we payed occured on this day in 1941.
We apparently must have a second 911 for the american people to wake up again. Too many want so badly to go back to september 10th.
And they will take any political promise to do so.
So if we can hold Bush accountible for not winning in iraq fast enough we can surely keep the new democratic congress accountible for not giving us peace.
William Amos on December 7, 2006 at 2:17 PM
…it’s *VERY* kind of you, but I can’t find a venue where I can use “penis” creatively in a sentence.
I natually thought of “Stallion” magazine, but they prefer using euphamisms to the actual anatomical term. They’re not using the term politically, anyway, or anatomically…more recreationally…and I’d be hesitant to actually handle the checks they’d send.
…besides, “ManDate”, “Stallion” and that sort of rag are all run by Democrats, and wouldn’t want anything I’d contribute, anyway….
Puritan1648 on December 7, 2006 at 2:18 PM
Its not patriotic it the “Chic” thing to do. It makes you look “cool” to the uneducated.
William Amos on December 7, 2006 at 2:20 PM
And global Islamization escalated. If no one thought Johnny Jihad wouldn’t ever be at their door … Think again.
Or the sheer number of ‘em. Gee whiz, there’s a mosque o’rama occuring in the Phoenix-metro area. It used to be that mosque density increased inversely to distance from the local state colleges. Not anymore.
I dunno, the fact that I am a gun-toting God fearing Trinitarian that calls out their moon god worshiping pedophillic totalitarian prophet for what he is, probably bothers them more.
AZ_Redneck on December 7, 2006 at 2:26 PM
Usually I’m on your side of the coin aero, but I have to take issue with you on this one.
I’m a boomer, born in ‘46. After serving my country I ran my own business for 30 years, a relatively small high-tech consulting firm to the telecomm industry. I can assure you that I, and other boomers like me who had small businesses to run and made a decent living working 50-60 hours a week, will never, ever, get back from the government the dollars we put into it.
I only wish I could get back, with interest, the money paid into Social Security for a lifetime. It would far surpass the crumbs I will receive from the government. And the federal taxes I paid in ….. don’t even want to talk about that.
Be careful how you label boomers. We’re not all from the same cloth. The real beneficiaries of the boomer’s contributions to government entitlements are the elderly born in the twenties and thirties. They contributed little to Social Security, and are getting back ten-fold what they put in..
Life isn’t fair.
fogw on December 7, 2006 at 2:28 PM
Sadly, this is the conclusion I’ve drawn as well. But watch out-this kind of talk leaves openings for the libtards to say any future attack was planned to get us back on the same page.
NTWR on December 7, 2006 at 2:29 PM
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