Warren and Obama Updated to explain my “Protestant pope” comment Update: Warren apologizes for Syria remarks, then contradicts his apology
posted at 10:16 am on November 30, 2006 by Bryan
I think I’ve established my credibility, or at least indefatigability, as a critic of Rev. Rick Warren here in the past couple of weeks. I also wrote quite a few pieces about him at JunkYardBlog, none of them favorable as they dealt with doctrinal problems within his various church programs and minor but telling issues with his own personal conduct. So know that what I’m about to say doesn’t come from someone who is a fan or follower of Warren.
Warren has adopted AIDS as one of his causes. Which is a fine, if politically correct, choice. It may well signal a move to the left socially, but so far the evidence for that is thin (though he’s already further left than he acknowledges publicly on doctrine, if you take into account the pastors and authors with whom Warren has chosen to associate himself). He’s set to hold an AIDS conference this weekend at his Saddleback megachurch in Southern California, and has invited several speakers to speak to his congregation from his pulpit about AIDS issues. Among the invitees, Sen. Barack Obama. A cynic would say that this is another politically correct choice, and I’m pretty cynical so I’ll say it. It’s a politically correct choice. Many of Warren’s fans and followers are upset at this (I’ve been getting email about it for a week now), and now he’s being pressured to disinvite Obama from the conference over Obama’s very leftwing views on abortion.
In a statement, 18 antiabortion leaders called on Warren to rescind the invitation because Obama supports keeping abortion legal.
“You cannot fight one evil while justifying another,” says the appeal, whose signers include Phyllis Schlafly of the Eagle Forum, Judie Brown of the American Life League and Tim Wildmon of the American Family Association.
Warren, author of the bestseller “The Purpose Driven Life,” responded yesterday by asserting that he and his wife, Kay, are “staunchly pro-life” and “completely disagree” with Obama’s position in favor of abortion rights.
Obama was one of 60 speakers invited to “share his views on AIDS, not abortion or any other issue,” the Warrens said in a statement issued by their Saddleback Valley Community Church. They added that Obama and Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) will “present two different political perspectives” at the weekend “Summit on AIDS and the Church.”
“Our goal has been to put people together who normally won’t even speak to each other,” the Warrens’ statement said. “We do not expect all participants in the Summit discussion to agree with all of our Evangelical beliefs. However, the HIV/AIDS pandemic cannot be fought by Evangelicals alone. It will take the cooperation of all — government, business, NGOs and the church.”
A spokesman for Obama said he has no intention of withdrawing from the conference, where he is expected to take a public HIV test.
Warren’s AIDS conference is a pretty showy affair, complete with that public AIDS test for Obama. It’s very unlikely that this conference will address one of the main root causes of the spread of AIDS in the developed world, which is promiscuous sexual activity among homosexual males. That’s too politically charged a topic, and would be used by the press to paint the conference as a gay-bashing session. Andrew Sullivan might finally have his “Christianist” head on a pike, which would be an ironic outcome.
But now, of course, the press would paint a disinvitation to Obama as a racial affair when it would be anything but. You know that’s how it would play out. So Warren’s in a bind, and Obama will speak from Saddleback’s pulpit. I actually think, though, that this is far less of a deal than many of my fellow social cons seem to think it is. The problem isn’t Obama, it’s Warren and his judgement.
So here’s where I come down on this. I think the whole AIDS conference is, like Warren’s ministry itself, well-intentioned but ultimately misguided because it’s not founded on or guided by bedrock biblical principles. Obama’s invitation is a symptom of the problems with Warren, not one of the major problems in and of itself. For one thing, it would have been silly to host an AIDS conference and not include a sprinkling of Democrats, if for no other reason than to avoid the conference looking like a one-sided political convention.
Like Warren’s ministry, the conference will be an act of serious window-dressing, phrase-making and bullet points but won’t really do much to deal with the actual crisis it’s intended to address. Having once again injected himself into what has become a political cause, Warren will find his fingers singed again and may finally learn that, like the uncle says in Spiderman, with great power comes great responsibility. Thanks to the success of his Purpose-Driven ministries, Warren is a very powerful man. A few years ago he could get away with shooting off his mouth in Syria or with having far left senators speak from his pulpit, and then spinning it all away to his church afterward. But as the de facto leader of thousands of churches in the US and worldwide, the closest thing we have to a Protestant pope in fact if not in name, he is accountable to an awful lot of people now. The old spin jobs won’t work anymore, as he has hopefully learned from the Syria kerfluffle.
This Obama invitation doesn’t really push my outrage meter much, personally. It’s one speech, and if Obama wanders into abortion it would be both a personal affront to his host and would display a serious lack of character and judgement on his part. Obama is a very smart man so he won’t do that. Warren is giving Obama a chance to connect with socially conservative voters, but they’re smart enough not to be fooled by one speech (er, hopefully). It would have been better if Obama hadn’t been invited given his stance on abortion, but honestly I think the whole conference is a problem in and of itself. I think it’s evidence of a larger problem with Warren’s tactics and ministry, which are gravitating toward politically correct themes and causes, toward the questionable “emerging church” movement, and away from core principles. Rather than focus on who is and isn’t speaking at Warren’s conferences, I’d rather see a focus on what Warren himself says and does.
Update: Clearly, I need to explain what I wrote above, when I said:
But as the de facto leader of thousands of churches in the US and worldwide, the closest thing we have to a Protestant pope in fact if not in name, he is accountable to an awful lot of people now.
Rev. Warren is trying to do something with his PD ministries and its sequels that no other pastor in living memory has tried to do. He is, by his own words, trying to spark a Second Reformation. That’s an ambitious goal, and it’s step farther than Rev. Billy Graham was trying to go when he launched his ministry several decades ago.
To reach that goal, Warren organized and launched the PD ministries. Literally thousands of churches worldwide, across all denominations, have joined up and had their pastors and lay leadership trained to operate as Purpose-Driven churches. Most of these churches re-organized themselves to align with the PD themes, so whether they were Baptist or Methodist before, they’re organized as PD now even though most have stayed with their denominations. Warren sells sermons and PowerPoint presentations, studies and study guides and even games for youth and children at Pastors.com. There’s a forum there where pastors share ideas, and often discuss tactics for getting rid of church members who disagree with PD programs, and Warren sends out a period newsletter advising pastors on best PD practices.
So Warren isn’t a Billy Graham. He’s more influential, albeit more quietly, than Graham ever was. It’s not a stretch to call the man who wants to re-organize entire countries along the PD paradigm “the closest thing we have to a Protestant pope.” Not a stretch at all.
More: Just so you know where I’m coming from on all this, I’m a Southern Baptist in the reformed or Calivinst mode. I’m a deacon in my church, though I’ve been one for less than a year, and I’m also the drummer in our praise band. I’m certainly not against church innovation as long as it’s done in accordance with scripture. When our church started going through the 40 Days of Purpose campaign, I was initially happy about it and looked forward to the campaign and to reading the book. But reading the book and then checking up on some authoritative reviews of it made me skeptical, so I dug further with the help of my JYB co-author Chris and kept finding basic and serious things wrong with PD, PDL and Warren’s various ministries. I’d love to be 100% on board with him and PD, but I can’t be because of what he teaches, the way he twists scripture and some of his tactics.
UPDATE on the Syria kerfluffle: WorldNetDaily’s Joseph Farah received a personal apology from Rick Warren regarding Warren’s controversial Syria comments. But shortly after that, Warren wrote to his own congregation that he’s taking flak for doing God’s work from people who, Warren says, are doing Satan’s work in criticizing him.
This is not a good development.
Warren obviously should not have showered the Assad regime with praise when he visited Syria. He should not have denied making those remarks (while blaming it all on bloggers and Franklin Graham) when the Syrian press reported them, and should not have used scripture to deceptively defend himself. And he should not apologize for his actions on one hand while defending them on the other. That’s double-mindedness and dishonesty, and apparently that’s not lost on at least one of his church members since one of them leaked the email to WND.
His remarks in Syria were bad enough. Everything he has done since then has made this problem much larger than it would have been otherwise.
(thanks to Chris)
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Of course he will. Then they’ll hold hands and stroll along the beach in the moonlight.
Oink on May 24, 2013 at 3:25 PM
Christie makes John Hunstman look conservative. That’s a scary thought isn’t it?
nobar on May 24, 2013 at 3:25 PM
The problem is it’ll be toxic in the GOP primaries in 2 1/2 years and that’s not even factoring in Scandalpalooza. CRISTie’s already got his reelection locked up. Why continue to play footsie with Obama like this unless he’s decided privately that he won’t be seeking the Presidency in 2016?
Doughboy on May 24, 2013 at 3:26 PM
I’d tell you to get bent, Chris, but your girth would prevent that, so…
Dopenstrange on May 24, 2013 at 3:26 PM
Look’s like muskrat love.
kingsjester on May 24, 2013 at 3:28 PM
If Christie is the GOP nominee in 2016, the Democrats will keep the White House.
Count on it.
DRayRaven on May 24, 2013 at 3:28 PM
Somebody needs to talk this guy into joining the Party of the Democrats . . . and get him out of the Republican Party.
rplat on May 24, 2013 at 3:30 PM
I picture that line being delivered with a tire iron inhand. The old Christe woulda….
apostic on May 24, 2013 at 3:30 PM
Rubio/Christie – The Demopbulican ticket.
Oil Can on May 24, 2013 at 3:31 PM
Loud mouths like Christie who “tell it like it is” usually put their foot in their mouth eventually (which he has done already).
He may as well put a great big D next to his name before the next election.
iamsaved on May 24, 2013 at 3:32 PM
Who’d of thought Barack is a chubby chaser? Go figure.
madmonkphotog on May 24, 2013 at 3:32 PM
Heh. Did you happen to see Drudge’s pic of Christie and Barry,..center of page about halfway down? Looks like The Big Guy is giving a huge reach around to The Leader, who is giggling coyly. Perfect!
a capella on May 24, 2013 at 3:32 PM
So basically he will be campaigning on our dime!
What’s new about that ?
burrata on May 24, 2013 at 3:33 PM
I’m sure it will be as toxic as Amnesty was for McCain and Romneycare was for Romney.
lol
Don’t you love the GOP electorate?
Fezzik on May 24, 2013 at 3:33 PM
Well, The First Lady says he’d make a great President, so
there you have it…he’s The Republican nominee in 2016!!!
Hooray!!!!!!
be back in a bit….have some Vomit to clean up…
ToddPA on May 24, 2013 at 3:33 PM
I see a Chris Christie/Charlie Crist ticket in their future.
iamsaved on May 24, 2013 at 3:34 PM
True.
Dang! Did anyone say he’d try to run as a Republican?
*perish the thought*
freedomfirst on May 24, 2013 at 3:34 PM
I see a cage match primary in the future between the Fat Man and Killary. Guess who wins.
BeachBum on May 24, 2013 at 3:34 PM
Front page pic: today’s Laurel and Hardy.
Marcola on May 24, 2013 at 3:35 PM
I don’t know about that. The Fat Man pretty much already won reelection in one of the most corrupt and backward states in the country. You’ve got to admit Christie is pretty politically savvy — more so than amnesty-pusher Marco Rubio or some of the other clowns.
Punchenko on May 24, 2013 at 3:36 PM
Just more media manipulation to pick the next sacrificial goat for us. Oh… yeah.. he could beat Hillary.. PICK HIM… No more letting the same media which hates us, influence who our party picks to run, they are NOT our damned friends.
mark81150 on May 24, 2013 at 3:38 PM
He isn’t. He’s a receiver. As long as he closes his eyes and “doesn’t know” one BJ is like any other…….
Like his entire administration.
Cody1991 on May 24, 2013 at 3:38 PM
I wouldn’t be surprised at all with a Arlen Spector flip and his running as Hillary’s mate.
I doubt the Republicans are going to find their nominee from the East Coast again this time.
Marcus on May 24, 2013 at 3:39 PM
Tough call. One is a fat, sweaty, graceless, clueless career backstabber and the other is Christie.
apostic on May 24, 2013 at 3:39 PM
savvy at stroking democrats..
republicans who are conservative.. not so much.. He runs as the nominee in 16, I’m voting Conservative party… and I won’t be the only one.
mark81150 on May 24, 2013 at 3:40 PM
More accurate
Schadenfreude on May 24, 2013 at 3:40 PM
oooh, i wonder if they will go out on a date and hold hands and other cute stuff. how sweet!
Sachiko on May 24, 2013 at 3:41 PM
Is it me or does Christie look like the Penguin?
Amadeus on May 24, 2013 at 3:41 PM
Why does Obama hate Democrat women?
patch on May 24, 2013 at 3:41 PM
It’s not hands. See my 3:40 comment.
Schadenfreude on May 24, 2013 at 3:41 PM
Won’t work. Neither Hillary nor the Rotund One will ever be the 2nd line on a ticket.
Bitter Clinger on May 24, 2013 at 3:41 PM
That’s because the field of candidates sucked in 2008 and 2012. McCain had no competition other than Huckster and Romney. And 4 years later, Romney had only Newt and Santorum to contend with.
Even if a bunch of conservatives take a pass on 2016, there’s no way our choices will be that limited in 3 years.
Doughboy on May 24, 2013 at 3:42 PM
Is Governor Christie, a
RINO – Republican In Name Only?
or, a
DIABLO – Democrat In All But Label Only?
Choices, Choices….
patch on May 24, 2013 at 3:43 PM
If Christi runs, it’ll be on the media driven narrative, he can win without the GOP base, just moderates and democrat cross overs..
The media which never saw a left wing extremist, ever, anywhere, has waged a decades long fight to smother the conservative base, even though we out number progressives 2 to 1.
Voter suppression isn’t unethical, like so much else, if the media/democrats do it.
mark81150 on May 24, 2013 at 3:45 PM
Obama has overseen the use of federal agencies to intimidate and harass American citizens. And not jus any agencies: IRS, FBI, and the ATF harassed Catherine Engelbrecht. They sped on a Fox News reporter’s family.
Christie should be ashamed of himself. When does politics end and he starts doing the right thing?
InterestedObserver on May 24, 2013 at 3:46 PM
We have got to light a fire under our conservative leaders.. front benchers this time please..
mark81150 on May 24, 2013 at 3:47 PM
Fat, dopey liberal. I will enjoy voting against him more than most.
Jaibones on May 24, 2013 at 3:48 PM
Christie…
Obama probably has taken a shower since meeting with Bruce Springsteen…
Electrongod on May 24, 2013 at 3:52 PM
…yeah, we know he’s a squish, but he is also the Governor of New Jersey. A guy like Cruz or even Rubio couldn’t get elected dog catcher in that state. Cut the big guy a break, he is undoubtedly better than whatever cookie cutter Dem would be sitting in that chair otherwise.
ndalager on May 24, 2013 at 3:52 PM
Christy, from a notoriously corrupt state like Obama’s Illinois, knows how the bread gets buttered. I wish he was a principled man, but he has done some good for Jersey. Let him stay there on the state level as the citizens feel fit via elections.
tom daschle concerned on May 24, 2013 at 3:53 PM
Absolutly right! The designated McCain will lose, whether it’s Christie, Rubio, Crist, Jeb or fill in the blank.
I wish we could some how change that, but the current GOP leadership he hard-wired to another designated McCain, (or Dole if you like).
Alabama Infidel on May 24, 2013 at 3:54 PM
Now serving dog on the Jersey boardwalk.
LetsBfrank on May 24, 2013 at 3:57 PM
Aww. Christie really, really wuvs obama…he can be his new body man :) well, if he sheds two more hundred pounds that is… obama likes his body men lean :)
jimver on May 24, 2013 at 3:58 PM
There won’t be any strolling on the beach today.
It’s 50 degrees and raining on and off all day with wind on top of it.
So much for the Big C’s “the shore is open” nonsense along with all that global warming.
jersey taxpayer on May 24, 2013 at 4:00 PM
Another azzhole
Schadenfreude on May 24, 2013 at 4:02 PM
With flowers, chocolates, soft music . . . and KY jelly?
AZCoyote on May 24, 2013 at 4:03 PM
Has Obama visited Oklahoma yet?
LtBarnwell02 on May 24, 2013 at 4:03 PM
The DEM VP,AG or SS cabinet position.
He’s going to be Huntsman * 1000(pds). If they can get past the scandals, Christie is going to be the lefts secret 100ton bunker buster.
“See, the current repub wingnut tbillies are so far gone that they even turned on their Conservative Hero Christie.”
Did Christie condemn the IRS, Benghazi response, AP, Rosen…? Has he addressed the scandals? He could do it in a non partisan way. Even Dear Leader managed “outrage”(or at least he used the word).
HA people, Christie is not running for the Repub Presidency. Like Doughboy wrote: He’s got his reelection locked up. This photo op further hurts him if he were to run as an R. And I do believe his French Kissing O ,from last year, would be re-run if he ran. He can’t run as an R and he knows it. He doesn’t want to.
BoxHead1 on May 24, 2013 at 4:07 PM
OT: Ryan Lizza (via Twitchy) reporting DOJ sought to keep Rosen in the dark about confiscating his E-mail for an extended period of time.
LetsBfrank on May 24, 2013 at 4:07 PM
Christie’s worst enemy in any potential 2016 primary is probably Jon Huntsman, since the goal is to solidify a block of moderates during the early northeastern state primaries, as the lone moderate in the field, and let the other conservative hopefuls knock each other off. That plan falls apart if there are two squishy Republicans in the race splitting that vote, but Christie’s advantage is it’s easier to play that game from New Jersey than it is from Utah, since the media will have no problem trumpeting his in-your-face personality in the primaries (and destroy him for it in the general election, if he actually did win the primary).
jon1979 on May 24, 2013 at 4:18 PM
I think the White House is still threatening the victims’ families in Moore to invite Hussein for a campaign sppech when they hold funerals for their loved ones and so far, no invite.
I’m sure he has his speech uploaded to TOTUS, photogs and networks ready to fly on AF-1 on a short notice .
Until then,,,partay..partay…partay…
burrata on May 24, 2013 at 4:19 PM
Wrong crowd. Dead, white conservatives are a gift for this guy.
Trayvon Martin was definitely worth a “presidential” comment.
Gee…. there’s a pattern here, isn’t there!
Cody1991 on May 24, 2013 at 4:20 PM
Go to hell Christie. Just change yourself to (D) and get it overwith.
TX-96 on May 24, 2013 at 4:25 PM
This fat wad needs to sink into the nearest deep part of the ocean. He could feed the sharks for days.
avagreen on May 24, 2013 at 4:28 PM
We don’t care now you fat piece of crap, the election is over.
slickwillie2001 on May 24, 2013 at 4:31 PM
All due respect:
Christie is super fat.
And that is all the respect he is due.
Sherman1864 on May 24, 2013 at 4:31 PM
Obama is simply coming back to see how Christie’s pregnancy is coming along. I hear Obama is hoping for a son…
William Eaton on May 24, 2013 at 4:34 PM
They’ll tour the coast right after stopping off at the Registrar’s Office so Chris can drop off his change-of-party registration.
Another Drew on May 24, 2013 at 4:40 PM
That’s fine, gotta take some time for photo ops in the midst of all the scandals. That’s what politicians do. Has he ever thought to take a trip back to the Gulf since 140 gallons of oil spilled in it, though?
scalleywag on May 24, 2013 at 4:42 PM
This was Ann Coultier’s big candidate for President.
“Fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son!”
flytier on May 24, 2013 at 4:47 PM
ha, make that 140 MILLION gallons
scalleywag on May 24, 2013 at 4:49 PM
Time to make the “Obamistie” relationship public.
Happy Nomad on May 24, 2013 at 5:02 PM
Democrats in NJ are not worried their candidate will lose, because by 2014 Christie will have switched parties to become a Democrat.
albill on May 24, 2013 at 5:09 PM
Yes. please roll out the red carpet and Slurpee’s. After all, the President and Democrats in general have done so much for NJ. Which is why there is a Republican governor…whoops.
It’s very revealing how the governor shows his love for Obama when the treasury is dishing out other people’s money to pay for the states disasters. They’ve allowed people to build in those areas and now, strangely, after receiving the big Obama smooch and fist-fulls of our cash, they are rebuilding.
For years, NJ collected taxes from all the affected residents. Did they save any of it for a windy, wet day? Nope.
Christie is only a pragmatic economic denizens when it suits his political needs. We’ve seen what happens when a crisis strikes. The first casualty is financial discipline.
Marcus Traianus on May 24, 2013 at 5:13 PM
Mitt should have recruited this guy to play a dirty trick or two but nooooooo……
But did he just stay neutral? Nooooo…
The Dems and the media are having a persistently hard time destroying Christianity, capitalism, white people and the Bill of Rights in less than a decade.
They sorely welcome the help of all useful idiots in wrecking the country and relish the fools who embrace their own demise.
But Christe? Maybe there is some natural bond between guys who run corrupt governments, ever think of that?
IlikedAUH2O on May 24, 2013 at 5:19 PM
Whaaa, no invite yet?? Do the local IRS know, and what are they planning to do about it?
jimver on May 24, 2013 at 5:58 PM
Clash of Titans:
Snooki Ambushes Chris Christie at Jersey Shore
:)
INC on May 24, 2013 at 6:37 PM
The mayor of Tampa at the time, a dem, wouldn’t even go to the airport to greet President Bush so there must be some outs for state officials if they don’t want to meet an greet. CC wants to for political reasons which makes him just as bad as the rest of the crowd in DC. He goes along to get along.
Kissmygrits on May 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM
Good for you, Chris. Expect to stay in New Jersey for the duration, because they obviously need you more than we need you in the White House.
RebeccaH on May 25, 2013 at 5:50 PM