You got to remember, this particular topic wasn’t so much about who had the superior arguments, evidence and facts…. that was clearly us. This topic was more about who has the gumballs to face it. We won …. they lost and they know it. Be happy.

Allahpundit posted this topic but had little to say once the posters on Hot Air proved they had more facts at hand than the naysayers who only had invective just like John Hawkins proved with Corsi.

I am astounded that the mainstream media and many right winged pundits refuse to discuss the systematic dismantling of our great Republic.

Most Republicans and Democrats know what is happening with this NAU and Illegal Immigration but the so called experts have put their hands into the sand.

I hope they wake up before it is too late.

If he thinks I was right about John Kerry and about Harriet Miers and that GWB’s border policy is a complete failure, why does he think I am so wrong about GWB and the NAU? Go ahead and post that and let’s hear his explanation of why he suddenly thinks I have become delusional.

Jerome Corsi to debate moderator, addressing John Hawkins

, SPP Debate (Round 2), Human Events

Being that Dr. Corsi had thoroughly rubbed Mr. Hawkins nose in, shall we say, “do-do” by round three, and that Mr. Hawkins was reduced to little more than sputtering ad hominem attacks by round four, his choice not to proceed to round five was probably a good idea. But it may have been an even better idea for the “SPP – nothing to see here Crowd” to have send someone to the debate with a little more intellectual firepower. Like they say, don’t send a boy to do a man’s job.

The debate timeline is very telling in regard to this point, if you look at it, you will see that Mr. Hawkins often needed days to formulate his reply, but once sent, Corsi was back to him within hours. This is particularly amusing in light of Hawkins boast at the beginning of round three, where he says “someone needs to pound this ridiculous concept until it’s “stepped on dead” and I’m just the guy to do it.” Please John, don’t do that again, you made me blow coffee all over my screen.

Keep in mind, this is the John Hawkins who believes allowing the fox to guard the hen house is a splendid idea, as his “through investigation of SPP” by questioning the officials at SPP, about SPP, proves.

Throughout the debate Corsi remained calm, polite and collected as he lobbed volley after volley, utterly devastating Hawkins. And of course, Mr. Hawkins quickly ran out of ammunition so he resorted to usual underhanded debating tactics of a loosing debater, thus putting an even bigger spotlight on how superficial his argument actually was. For example, Hawkins misquotes Corsi time and again, then attempts to ridicule Corsi via ad hominem attacks. Each attack designed to inflame emotions and prejudices rather than to bring any new substantive information to the debate.

In spite of these disgraceful tactics by Hawkins, who claims to be a conservative, you will see that the good Dr. Corsi dispatch’s little Johnny homeward for more cookies and kool-aid with little effort.

Granted, no matter how intellectual “the pick” would have been for the “SPP Apologist” side, he was bound to loose, no reasonable person could expect the abundance and overwhelming nature of the facts against them to be overcome. But at least a smarter “SPP Apologist” may have had the good sense to bow out more gracefully and refrain from the ad hominem attacks. Coming off like a six-year-old having a temper tantrum is not helpful in advancing ones point of view.

Good debate but Hawkins dropped out after round 4.

That’s a lot of research ScottyDog, that must have taken a lot of time to put together, thank you. But maybe all of us should just stop it now, because it appears we are scaring the children.

I could have presented a lot more of my research but in the end it will not convince the koolaid drinkers one bit. They will continue calling names without looking at the reams of evidence that is available on the Internet.

I looked at the article you recommended and did so with an open mind. Apparently it’s not just the CFR, but also the Trilateral Commission.

Really, guys, this is Idaho-shack short wave stuff. I’m not saying that the SPP doesn’t bear watching and certainly not that it’s a good idea. But I see no credible evidence that this is a deliberate attempt to extinguish American sovereignty.

see-dubya: oh, for Christ’s sakes! What would you be willing to accept as “evidence”? Bush’s going on national television and announcing that he is part of a plan to erode our borders with Canada and Mexico? Come on, skeptics, can’t you do better than that?

The SPP has its own website; there’s tons of “evidence” there. The CFR has *its* website; the entire text of Building A North American Community is on there. There are also entire books written on the subject of economically integrating “North America,” e.g., one written by Robert Pastor lead author of the CFR task force study (these books use that phrase to refer to a supranational entity). If you’re too lazy to go to those websites or check out those books, don’t pretend I haven’t presented any “evidence.” I’ve told you where to go find it, but I’m not going to draw you a picture.

I never mentioned “conspiracy theories.” That’s a complete red herring. It’s not a “conspiracy” when what’s going on is right out where anyone with a computer and a connection to the Internet can find it–if they go looking. Oh yeah, an open mind does help as well.

Ridicule is the last resort of those who have lost the argument, as the skeptics clearly have.

For, yes, there are thousands of pages of information in print documenting the growing assault on U.S. sovereignty, ranging from the review of U.S. court cases by NAFTA tribunals on down to this NAFTA-on-steroids proposed international super-corridor.

The fact that this is not reported openly by either the government or the media is what throws the naive, who think that if it’s real it’s on TV. Our national news media wouldn’t omit crucial information, now, would they? And President Bush is a man of his word, right?

Since this thread is about to drop off the front page, allow me to leave you with one last thought.

There is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.

Woodrow Wilson, 28th U.S. President

Help… Help… all right-wing wingnut, RighWinged is afer me, he has the Polonium 210!

Maxx on November 25, 2006 at 7:30 PM

I’m not after you with the Poloium 210 Maxx, I’m after see-dubya for breaking deep deep cover by telling you what we (the Illuminati Superhighway Builders) are up to. He has to be dealt with before word gets out.

I just think you should retract the moonbat label for those that disagree with you, I don’t know if you are willing to do that or not, but that is the only problem I’ve had with what you have had to say.

I just don’t think that anybody on either side of this debate has entered moonbat territory. Let’s reserve the moonbat label for the types over at “Loose Change” that really deserve it, shall we?

You need to consider, btw, MAxx, that I’m actually an agent provocateur, just trolling the comments at Hot Air in order to divert attention from the New World Order, and my hardcore screeds against the United Nations, one-worldism, cosmopolitanism, and internationalism at JYB are just part of my deep, deep cover.

You should know that because you broke cover, I’ve just been dispatched with a spray bottle of Polonium 210 to take you out.

After this post on Peggy Noonan, commenter ‘Wovoka’ set me straight: Doubters of “The North American Union” might wish to research the members of the C.F.R., their relationship to the “Free Masons” and that elitist organization’s vision of …

Maybe if I were as smart as you and had your inordinate perspicacity my poor, shriveled noggin could grasp the subtleties of the impending Trilateral Zurich-Gnome takeover. But this is moonbatty conspiracy-mongering on ZERO evidence.

You need to consider, btw, MAxx, that I’m actually an agent provocateur, just trolling the comments at Hot Air in order to divert attention from the New World Order, and my hardcore screeds against the United Nations, one-worldism, cosmopolitanism, and internationalism at JYB are just part of my deep, deep cover.

or maybe…you are. Can you prove to me you’re not a member of an international conspiracy? I think you are and you’d better prove it to my satisfaction right now.

I looked at the article you recommended and did so with an open mind. Apparently it’s not just the CFR, but also the Trilateral Commission.

Really, guys, this is Idaho-shack short wave stuff. I’m not saying that the SPP doesn’t bear watching and certainly not that it’s a good idea. But I see no credible evidence that this is a deliberate attempt to extinguish American sovereignty.

see-dubya on November 25, 2006 at 4:21 PM

None so blind as those who will not see.

That’s not even clever. I could easily offer ample evidence that I was born right here on planet Earth, but then of course … you would ask about the birth of my parents, which again … I could offer plenty of evidence as to the location of their birthplace.

How do I know you didn’t use your super alien abilities to take over the body that you live in? Evidence that you didn’t please. My original point stands.

As for complete Amnesty… Last I heard there were going to be offerings for a “path to citizenship” for those who’d been here for many years and had been working, etc. and that they’d have to pay basically a “fine”. Perhaps that has all changed and I didn’t hear about it. But again, I’m not supporting Bush’s plan, but you exaggerated all those points. There’s no point in repeating myself.

Offer ANY evidence that you’re NOT an alien.

That’s not even clever. I could easily offer ample evidence that I was born right here on planet Earth, but then of course … you would ask about the birth of my parents, which again … I could offer plenty of evidence as to the location of their birthplace.

By Amnesty standards, he’s not advocating “complete amnesty”. And I don’t think he’s ordering those police to ignore immigration laws, various local/state governments are. And we don’t have “zero” border enforcement. Your comments are emotional, not accurate. You might recall recent stories of increased apprehensions at the border, etc.

Every single point you just made is inaccurate if not totally false.

First, Bush’s plan IS total amnesty. Which part do you feel is not total amnesty. If you erase any penalty for being here illegally, and then offer them a REWARD to obtain citizenship even after breaking our laws … which part of that is NOT total amnesty?

Second, Bush is the President of the United States and he has State and local officials IGNORING Federal law … and he does NOTHING to force them to follow it.

As for increased apprehensions … it’s a mirage. Ask Michelle. Yes, they’ve “apprehended” illegals … but they have then RELEASED them back into the population just as they always have. It’s nothing but a show. Nothing but a mirage to make it look like they are doing something. The National Guard troops have never shown up in the numbers that were promised, and those that are there have been ordered to not participate in any apprehensions.

Bush has to this day done absolutely ZERO to stop illegals from crossing the border, and the few penalties leveled on businesses for hiring those illegals amount to nothing. If he was serious, you would see widespread arrests of business owners. It’s not like there are three of them and it’s not like it’s difficult to locate them. All you have to do is stand at the local 7-11 and arrest the drivers who pick them up. How difficult IS that?

I looked at the article you recommended and did so with an open mind. Apparently it’s not just the CFR, but also the Trilateral Commission.

Really, guys, this is Idaho-shack short wave stuff. I’m not saying that the SPP doesn’t bear watching and certainly not that it’s a good idea. But I see no credible evidence that this is a deliberate attempt to extinguish American sovereignty.

“What we have here is a failure to communicate.”

As you say, there no evidence that their ideas are actually being implemented. Just words. Which is why…

There are reams of evidence that their ideas are being implemented but you refuse to read the documents.I do not think you have made any attempt to do the research necessary to understand the SPP documents or how the Bush administration is using the Department of Commerce to implement the policies in secret.

There are not even debates in Congress discussing such a merger of Canada, Mexico, and the United States.

There is no discussion in Congress, in Mexico, or in Canada of Mexico or Canada petitioning Congress to join the United States as states

Is that not what people like Tom Tancredo are saying. It is an end run around the constitution. Corsi has the best explanation: there is a scheme in the works to end the United States of America and replace it, Mexico and Canada with a North American Union (whether it will be *called* that or not is, of course, neither here nor there).

There is no discussion in Mexico or Canada, that I can find, that is advocating a merger of them with the United States of America

There is a huge backlash about the NAU or SPP in Canada.They have even setup volunteers groups that are lobbying the Canadian Government to stop the NAU here.

March 31, 2006: At the Summit of the Americas in Cancun, Canada (under new Prime Minister Stephen Harper) along with the U.S. and Mexico release the Leaders’ Joint Statement. The statement presents six action points to move toward a North American Union, aka a North American Community. These action points include: 1) Establishment of a Trilateral Regulatory Cooperative Framework 2) Establishment of the North American Competitiveness Council (NACC) 3) Provision for North American Emergency Management 4) Provision for Avian and Human Pandemic Influenza Management 5) Development of North American Energy Security 6) Assure Smart, Secure North American Borders. Read the full statement at: Leaders Joint Statement on Prime minister Stephen Harper’s website.

Mexican officials repeatedly have talked about the NAU in public and on the record.

LINK
In a panel discussion on U.S.-Mexico relations last Tuesday(October 31, 2006) at the University of Texas at San Antonio, Enrique Berruga, Mexico’s ambassador to the United Nations, came right out and said a North American Union is needed – and even provided a deadline.

Berruga said the merger must be complete in the next eight years before the U.S. baby boomer retirement wave hits full force.

This is not merely a Utopian dream but a well documented take over of our Government. The process that allows GWB to subvert Congress is using Trade Agreements and Working Groups.

Article Six of the U.S. Constitution states that “all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” Because international treaties supersede national law, Fast Track has allowed an enormous restructuring of U.S. law without resorting to a Constitutional convention.

I urge you to read the articles at the August Review to fully understand how GWB is accomplishing the NAU behind closed doors with the MSM asleep at the wheel.

Toward a North American Union

So are you saying you’re open to the possibility of 9/11 conspiracy theories, simply because the administration doesn’t address it or issue press releases?

RightWinged

I think they are different issues. 9/11 conspiracy nonsense doesn’t threaten to tear the Republican Party apart for one thing.

When Bush made his first official visit to Mexico in Feb 2001, a lot of plans were initiated for future “cooperation” between the two countries. We can call these “secret plans” because we are not privy to the conversations that took place.

One of the big contributors to these plans was Enrique Berruga, who gave a joint press conference with Condoleezza Rice at that time.

This is the same Enrique Berruga who expects a deadline for the creation of a NAU in the next eight years before the retirement of US baby boomers hits full force. I don’t think we can just consider Berruga a loose cannon who is off the reservation. He believes there are plans in the works and he was there when the plans were being hatched, we weren’t.

If we are indeed “kooks” and “conspiracy theorists”, then so is one of the main architects who was involved in the plans for future US-Mexico cooperation. And I guess an actual figure who was part of the planning session carries more weight with me as to what those plans actually involved than the baseless assertions of folks who were absent from those meetings, such as Mark Steyn and Allahpundit.